SCHAUMBURG, Ill. — Former NFL and CFL star quarterback Doug Flutie was in the Chicago area Wednesday, and Shutdown Corner was able to get a brief — but quite enlightening — audience with him to talk a little football. Specifically quarterbacks.
Although he had a tight schedule to keep to, Flutie and I talked mostly about two young (and quite different but equally fascinating) quarterbacks in Andrew Luck and Johnny Manziel. Flutie has seen a lot of their play and has strong feelings on each.
When Flutie was doing some college football broadcasting work, Luck was coming up at Stanford. Flutie, like most of us, was quite struck with the precocious Luck's rare maturity and talent. As well as his likeability.
"I was a little surprised at his level of success he had right away in the NFL, at just how good he was early on," Flutie told SDC. "But there’s no doubt in my mind that I felt confident he would [embark on] a great career.
"And I’ll be honest, I like seeing great guys do well. I’ve seen enough in college and NFL that there are certain guys where, it doesn’t hurt my feelings when they do well. So for him, one of the good guys, to do well and have the success he’s having, it’s enjoyable."
Later on we got around to Manziel. I cheekily asked Flutie if he considered Manziel one of the good guys. Flutie smiled, paused and then said: "Don't know him as well."
But that's off the field. On it, Flutie sees what we all have with the former Texas A&M whirling dervish and the future hope for the Cleveland Browns. And sure, Flutie can see some of himself in Manziel. If and when Manziel wins the Browns' starting job, whether it's prior to the season or sometime during it, Flutie believes he has a chance to elevate his new teammates in Cleveland.
“I just think he’s the type of guy that makes everyone around him better," Flutie said. "You can, as an athletic quarterback, overcome certain deficiencies around you. If you have a suspect offensive line, a guy that can move around and buy a little extra time makes it easier on them. A guy that can run naked bootlegs and sprint outs or having a quarterback you can call designed runs for, it takes pressure off other aspects of the team."
That's we've heard and what we've seen — athletically, anyway — in college from Manziel, although he clearly played behind a banner offensive line at A&M that was maybe the best group in the country. The Browns, too, figure to be strong or at worst solid up front.
But what about at receiver? The impending loss of Josh Gordon really takes some teeth out of their unit. Does Flutie think Manziel's skills can overcome that?
"Say you have marginal receivers that have trouble getting open. Hold the ball a little longer, guys get open," Flutie said. "Guys like [Tom] Brady and [Peyton] Manning, you need everyone on the same page and executing correctly, but they are so good at what they do they make sure they’re doing that."
Luck is in that same vein of perfectionist, and yet we don't know to this point whether Manziel is. If Luck was, as Flutie noted, "as close to a can’t-miss guy as we've seen come out," Manziel — with his style, his size and, let's face it, his off-field life — is a can-miss prospect.
But Flutie didn't care to touch any of the extracuricular activites that Manziel chooses to participate in, instead preferring to run through the laundry list of tasks he'll be charged with on the field if and when he takes over.
"All the stuff that goes on in the NFL now over the ball makes it a very complicated game," Flutie said, simulating a typical NFL process for a quarterback on any given play. “You walk to the line of scrimmage. You’ve called two plays in the huddle. We’ve called whatever pass play, and we have a check-to for a run. We get to the line and we’ve got an alert. Now the alert is off, we’re running the original play. The original protection is a six-man protection, and we’ve got to clarify the ‘Mike’ linebacker. ‘OK, 54 is the Mike, which means were hot off two on the back side, we’re hot off one on the front side.’ And you’re doing this all at the line of scrimmage.
"And then the defense shifts. ... [talking faster now] ‘Now 55 is the Mike, we’re hot off two front side, hot off one back side …’ And you’re off from there."
The players who can translate their great college ability into NFL success, Flutie said, as Luck has so far, are quick thinkers and quick actors.
"So all this stuff is going through at the line of scrimmage, and you’re reading coverages on the fly, receivers are going full speed," he said. "A lot of this, most of this, is all on the quarterback. It’s difficult in your rookie season to be comfortable with all of that that they water all of that down. You run some of it, and it slowly gets added in and guys eventually get to the point where they are like, ‘Doesn’t matter. Call anything you want.’"
That's where Luck appears to be. He now has built on the foundation of two NFL seasons, 32 regular-season games and three playoff contests, and has been able to work in relatively familiar terms with offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton, who coached Luck at Stanford and now is heading into their second season together with the Colts. “This is where things just keep building for him," Flutie said. "That’s where I was jealous of all these guys who were with the same franchise, the same offense for years. You can just build on everything.
"Number one, it becomes instinctive, second nature — there’s no learning even. You just building on the foundation you already have. You’re just opening up an offense. As a quarterback, as the other parts might even be interchangeable, those guys don’t have to be perfect. As long as the quarterback is ahead of the game, everyone else is going to be comfortable."
I had just enough time to ask Flutie about the proliferation of up-tempo offenses in the NFL, which is something too that both Luck and Manziel could get a taste of this season. The Colts fiddled around with it late last season and also hired Rob Chudzinski in an undetermined role but one that could assist in the offense picking up the pace at times. Manziel and the Browns certainly could push the turbo button at times, too.
Flutie believes going faster actually can aid a young quarterback in some respects.
"I’d rather go up-tempo because then you can have that time you need at the line of scrimmage," he said. "You just call the play on the fly, you don’t waste 20 seconds back there in the huddle. I obviously think it’s easier because there’s a lot of verbiage in the huddle sometimes. Young quarterbacks struggle with that.
"But if you do it at the line of scrimmage, you give the formation, then you yell the protection to the offensive line, then the routes … and it’s just a step-by-step process. Instead of being in the huddle and having to say, ‘50 Queen Left Slot Close Zip Back 476 Zero Edge Shoot Sneak Scatback Right.’ You just say the one thing at a time."
My buddy West Side Steve is playing the Keys this year. Was at the Crecent maybe the last 20 years? Anyway, if you catch him, take the time to tell him I insisted on you introducing yourself. Steve is a good guy and a great entertainer. He's easy to drink with...
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Quote: The big question about Manziel right now is, did he lure Lebron back to the Lake
There, fixed it for those who may have been confused.
maybe it did not deserve purple?
This comes after James used social media to endorse Manziel's NFL move, when the Browns used the 22nd pick in the 2014 NFL Draft on the flashy quarterback. He posed in a Manziel shirt, doing the Aggies star's notable cash gesture in an image on Instagram.
At the time, James even joked that he wouldn't mind catching passes from Manziel with the Browns, which would be a little tough to do in Miami.
Manziel had already used some of his ties to James to settle into the endorsement community in Cleveland. He filmed his first local commercial with Collection Auto Group in part thanks to Manziel's ties with James and Maverick Carter, a partner in the marketing firm that represents them both, according to the Cleveland Plain Dealer.
"The connection actually started with LeBron and Maverick Carter,'' Bernie Moreno, owner of Collection Auto Group told the newspaper. "They've been phenomenal clients of ours for the last nine years, even after he moved to Miami — not only LeBron but his friends and associates. He's been a super loyal client and it was a natural for when they got Johnny to really present it to us and give us that opportunity.''
The two were also part of a McDonald's commercial that included Alex Morgan and Richard Sherman.
Now, the friends in sports and marketing can be co-authors of Cleveland's new chapter in both arenas
I know it isn't football talk, but very little on these Johnny threads are football related.
I'll be happy when things get rolling. I know it can't be that far away. I buy that NFL pre-season ticket to watch games on the net. I got my notification I don't have to do anything unless I want to opt out. Sounds good to me. I am ready to watch some preseason games.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Manziel signed a deal with a marketing firm that Lebron is a partner in. If you think some NFL rookie who hasn't played a down yet somehow influenced Lebron to play for the Cavs, I can't help you.
Lebron will be making money from Manzliel's endorsement deals. That's as far as it goes.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas in 2 weeks. It is hard to express how much excitement i have for this team with the edition of Johny Football. This kid is the Pistol Pete of football. I just dont think most realize how special this young man is.
I just hope he realizes he can be a LeBron type star in Cleveland and around the league OR... The biggest bust in NFL history. A laughingstock who lets Ryan Leaf off the hook.
Quote: I just hope he realizes he can be a LeBron type star in Cleveland and around the league OR... The biggest bust in NFL history. A laughingstock who lets Ryan Leaf off the hook.
He already has the celebrity status without actually having done anything in this sport (which, to me, is the surest sign of a bust getting ready to happen). Now, he just needs to figure out how to live up to his own hype. It'd be great if he proves me wrong... really great, but I don't think he will.
This is Hoyer's team, and I don't think Manziel has it in him to get serious enough to take it away and keep it. Even if he buckles down for a bit, he'll slip. He's a partier, not a football player.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Radio reports say that besides busting his butt to rehab his knee, Hoyer has been throwing regularly to Andrew Hawkins, Charles Johnson, and other receivers to develop timing and to get to know each other's tendencies. All this while Johnny's having his last fling with carefree youth. Hoyer is going to be miles ahead of him when TC starts.
And, speaking of hype without achievement (at the pro level), this appeared on the NFL's Twitter account yesterday after the L James announcement:
Quote: LeBron (bless his little heart ) certainly stole the spotlight from Manziel for the time being, huh?
At least he's actually went out as a pro and earned the spotlight.
Actually, he got the spotlight back in High School... He was the owner of a Hummer with King James sewn into his head rests before he set foot on the court as a professional..
But that's yesterdays news.. he's earned his stripes now..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: Hoyer has been throwing regularly to Andrew Hawkins, Charles Johnson, and other receivers to develop timing and to get to know each other's tendencies. All this while Johnny's having his last fling with carefree youth. Hoyer is going to be miles ahead of him when TC starts.
I applaud Hoyer and those guys working out right now but Hoyer needs to throw after being unable to do much from the long rehab with the knee and frankly Manziel needs to rest that arm before camp. While Hoyer was working out rehabbing the knee, Manziel was auditioning and training for those auditions.
Does this mean much when the season starts? Maybe, maybe not, lets not forget Camp Colt and Weeden's wonder workouts. When its time to nut up, we will see how much studying Manziel was doing when the camera wasnt on him.
Quote: I just hope he realizes he can be a LeBron type star in Cleveland and around the league OR... The biggest bust in NFL history. A laughingstock who lets Ryan Leaf off the hook.
He already has the celebrity status without actually having done anything in this sport (which, to me, is the surest sign of a bust getting ready to happen). Now, he just needs to figure out how to live up to his own hype. It'd be great if he proves me wrong... really great, but I don't think he will.
This is Hoyer's team, and I don't think Manziel has it in him to get serious enough to take it away and keep it. Even if he buckles down for a bit, he'll slip. He's a partier, not a football player.
I agree about Johnny. Odds are pretty low that he'll amount to anything in the NFL.
But I can't agree that it's 'Hoyer's team', necessarily.
It's unfair, but he's going to be on a very short leash. He has to play lights out. There's just going to be too much pressure from all fronts to see Johnny behind center.
Quote: I agree about Johnny. Odds are pretty low that he'll amount to anything in the NFL.
You should have put an "I Think" in front of that because a lot of people think the opposite.
No, the odds are pretty slim for him. That's not an opinion.
When I say that I think he'll flame out in the NFL, that's an opinion.
But the steep uphill climb he'll have to make is a reality. He's undersized, he has to completely revamp his game, and he's never had a playbook at a high level.
What leads you to believe he has high odds of success at the NFL level?
Quote: "All the stuff that goes on in the NFL now over the ball makes it a very complicated game," Flutie said, simulating a typical NFL process for a quarterback on any given play. “You walk to the line of scrimmage. You’ve called two plays in the huddle. We’ve called whatever pass play, and we have a check-to for a run. We get to the line and we’ve got an alert. Now the alert is off, we’re running the original play. The original protection is a six-man protection, and we’ve got to clarify the ‘Mike’ linebacker. ‘OK, 54 is the Mike, which means were hot off two on the back side, we’re hot off one on the front side.’ And you’re doing this all at the line of scrimmage.
"And then the defense shifts. ... [talking faster now] ‘Now 55 is the Mike, we’re hot off two front side, hot off one back side …’ And you’re off from there."
The players who can translate their great college ability into NFL success, Flutie said, as Luck has so far, are quick thinkers and quick actors.
"So all this stuff is going through at the line of scrimmage, and you’re reading coverages on the fly, receivers are going full speed," he said. "A lot of this, most of this, is all on the quarterback.
None of you brought this up, but there really is football talk in the original post. Instead of having a good football conversation, we get pictures, jaded insights, and wild speculation.
Flutie brought up some excellent points. Reading the defense pre-snap and then recognizing coverages post-snap is what separates good QBs from the bums. That is why guys like Luck, Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Big Ben, and Wilson are successful. Look at those guys.......they come in all shapes and sizes. Some party. Some are renowned studiers of the game.
On the other hand, you have big, strong-armed guys like Weeden and JeMarcus Wilson who can't make it in the NFL. We have have gifted athletes at QB who are struggling because they can't read defenses and coverages.
Anyone care to talk about that? Where does Johnny stack up in terms of football intelligence? How does he compare to other rookie QBs in that regard? How does he compare to other recent first round QBs in terms of football intelligence?
Or, do you just wanna talk about his pictures, how he hasn't done anything yet, and how it is likely he will never amount to much?
I would like to say that one does not become known as "Johnny Football" by sorely lacking in those qualities. He didn't get the name because of winning a lot of games. Colt won a lot of games but was never dubbed "Colt Football".
I've watched Manzel in a few games. Maybe half-a-dozen. With my limited understanding of what's going on I can't tell if he was reading defenses & coverages at a high level or not.
What I could tell is he seemed to know what was going on in front of him, kept his eyes downfield and even when he was scrambling and got turned around, when he again faced downfield he seemed to see what he expected to see considering the defensive movement over that short time. I think that, because he didn't seem confused nor take long to make a good decision.
I'm not really sure how one identifies a QB's ability to read coverages. Weeden didn't have it and I say that because he threw late so many times. He'd have his guy but be uncertain and then make the throw late enough for a defender to get there the same time as the ball. I'm figuring that was him not knowing what to expect from the defense once it starts moving.
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