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It it meant putting my families lives in danger, I would find somewhere else to live.. that's what I will never understand. Why would you want to put your family around a bunch of people that hate your guts? I don't think land should trump your life. but that is my belief..
If that were a viable option for everyone, then no one would ever live in the ghetto.
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Most people don't, if they don't have to. just look at the explosion of the suburbs the past 30 yrs.
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Most people don't, if they don't have to. just look at the explosion of the suburbs the past 30 yrs.
Are you being serious?
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most communities offer section 8 housing. look at the population in most inner cities. they have gone down drastically. I could go in the hood in youngstown, and you might see a few houses on the whole block. the other houses have been torn down.. Some people don't mind living in the ghetto. I know if you didn't want to stay there anymore, it doesn't take much effort to get out. You could find an apartment in a safe area for 400-500 bucks. You could find nice houses around here for under 30k that are also in good areas..
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Legend
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Some people don't mind living in the ghetto. I know if you didn't want to stay there anymore, it doesn't take much effort to get out.
...said the man who doesn't have the slightest clue what growing up in the ghetto is like.
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Wonder why a threatened population is fighting back.
That's just how the Israeli's are.
Pretty sure he meant Palestine.
Has anybody bothered to wonder WHY would Palestinians be firing rockets at Israel? They're crazy, but nobody does that for no reason at all.
Because they are (and pardon me for being insensitive here) the useful idiots of the Middle East. The Palestinians are out right hated by many of their "Arab Brothers", and are flat out disrespected by them far more often than anyone actually gives half a damn about their plight.
Look at the wonderful way the surrounding neighbors treat the Palestinian refugees who might wind up on their borders. Jordan is probably the only country that treats them in any kind of humane manner, and who will allow refugees to actually follow a path that allows them to get a job, and maybe even become a citizen one day. They are treated as scum of the earth in most other countries ..... seen worthy of menial labor and not much else.
However, they are very good at dying .... and that is useful for groups like Hamas and others. These groups will pay a man to martyr himself, and give him money to help his family with.
I am not, however, saying that Israel is without fault in the bigger picture. I am just saying that the Palestinians are seen as tools for much of the rest of the Middle East .... to be used, and discarded .....and who are useful as long as they can be used against Israel.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Youngstown was listed as the Deadliest Place in the U.S. by the Wall Street Journal in 1997. That same year Youngstown had the highest per capita murder rate in the United States.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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1300 or so.
Can't be cheap! And where does the money come from? There is some financial/equipment backing here...
Yeah. Sadly, it's most of the countries around Israel.
Don't forget the money the US gives to the Palestinian Authority, which is partially governed by Hamas.
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1300 or so.
Can't be cheap! And where does the money come from? There is some financial/equipment backing here...
Yeah. Sadly, it's most of the countries around Israel.
Don't forget the money the US gives to the Palestinian Authority, which is partially governed by Hamas.
source?
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1300 or so.
Can't be cheap! And where does the money come from? There is some financial/equipment backing here...
Yeah. Sadly, it's most of the countries around Israel.
Don't forget the money the US gives to the Palestinian Authority, which is partially governed by Hamas.
source?
web page
web page
web page
web page
web page
web page
Ever since 93.
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That is a lot of links but I bolded the part about the Palestinian Authority for a reason. I wasn't looking for a source about aid to Palestinians because that is so easy to find information on, I was looking for a source that Hamas partially governs the PA. Basically, it would seem odd to me that the United States would brand Hamas as a terrorist organization and then give them money. You are seeming to suggest otherwise so I was hoping you could provide confirmation on that.
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Jc
Y'all might wanna learn some history before some of you just decide that Israel is all innocent.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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That is a lot of links but I bolded the part about the Palestinian Authority for a reason. I wasn't looking for a source about aid to Palestinians because that is so easy to find information on, I was looking for a source that Hamas partially governs the PA. Basically, it would seem odd to me that the United States would brand Hamas as a terrorist organization and then give them money. You are seeming to suggest otherwise so I was hoping you could provide confirmation on that.
Check the last two links.
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It's easier to paint this as a simple conflict than look at the ridiculously complicated history behind this.
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Quote:
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That is a lot of links but I bolded the part about the Palestinian Authority for a reason. I wasn't looking for a source about aid to Palestinians because that is so easy to find information on, I was looking for a source that Hamas partially governs the PA. Basically, it would seem odd to me that the United States would brand Hamas as a terrorist organization and then give them money. You are seeming to suggest otherwise so I was hoping you could provide confirmation on that.
Check the last two links.
ok...
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The Fatah–Hamas conflict (Arabic: النزاع بين فتح وحماس‎ an-Nizāʿ bayna Fataḥ wa-Ḥamās), also referred to as the Palestinian Civil War (Arabic: الحرب الأهلية الفلسطينية‎ al-Ḥarb al-ʾAhliyyah al-Filisṭīnīyyah), is the conflict between the two main Palestinian political factions, Fatah and Hamas, resulting in the split of the Palestinian Authority.
Tensions between Fatah and Hamas began to rise in 2005. After the Hamas' legislative victory in 2006, relations were marked by sporadic factional fighting. This became more intense after the two parties repeatedly failed to reach a deal to share government power, escalating in June 2007 and resulting in Hamas' control of the Gaza strip. As of August 2007 the Palestinian Authority is split into two polities, each seeing itself as the true representative of the Palestinian people – the Fatah-ruled Palestinian National Authority and the Hamas Government in Gaza.[10]
The Cairo reconciliation agreement between the parties was signed in May 2011, bringing hopes of reuniting the Fatah-ruled Palestinian National Authority and the Hamas Government in Gaza. The implementation of the agreement however was not executed up until the withdrawal of the Hamas external office from Damascus, due to the Syrian civil war. As a result, the Doha deal was signed by Mahmoud Abbas and Khaled Mashal in 2012. On 1 April 2012, the Doha implementation however was described as "stalling".[1] with no progress on the joint elections scheme. In addition, the Fatah blamed Hamas that its security forces have set up roadblocks and arrested dozens of Fatah members and individuals in Gaza, whom they accused of "spreading rumors".[1] In the aftermath of the Palestinian UN upgrade to observer state status, all negotiations have ceased.
An April 2014 agreement between the two political groups to hold elections and form a compromise unity government finds the Palestinian Territories' future in flux, with elections to be held in late 2014.[11] Looking back, a Palestinian rights group has found that more than 600 Palestinians were killed in the fighting from January 2006 to May 2007
I don't see that as being confirmation of what you wrote, quite the opposite actually
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Dawg Talker
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FYI Eric
Wikipedia can not be used to support anything because anyone can update the content which creates a lot of misinformation. (google funny wikipedia pages).
It might be a good place to get general knowledge about things but you have to take it with a grain of salt.
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True
The bottom line is that his statement about the Palestinian Authority being partially governed by Hamas is wrong and the insinuation that Hamas's weapons are being indirectly paid for by aid from the U.S. is also wrong and badly misleading.
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It's easier to paint this as a simple conflict than look at the ridiculously complicated history behind this.
Do you mean the Abraham story and which son, Isaac or Ishmael, is the legitimate heir, or the idea that the Palestinians believe this land was theirs? Jews all over the world started moving back to what would become Israel since they were scattered by the Babylonians. The tide picked up in the 1200s when European countries started kicking them out or forcing them to convert. The tide really picked up in 1882 and from the start of WWII. They formed the government there in 1948. The land was called Palestine by the Ottoman Empire and the British when they controlled the area, and it was not named that for the people there. There were Christians, Jews, and Arabs in the country. Even now, there are Christian and Muslim Israelis. If you ask me, just like any country, the land belongs to those that can hold it.
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This is what I mean as I said earlier in the thread: Quote:
J/C
Main argument about all of this is Israel, due to texts in the Old Testament, believes they deserve the land. If they believed they deserved the land they wouldn't be forcing the hand of their god. Yes, this dates all the way back to when the land was up for grabs after WWII.
Both sides are at fault. Just stop bulldozing homes, bombing the other side in retaliation and just find ways to be friends. Isn't that what the heart of both religious beliefs hold near and dear?
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True
The bottom line is that his statement about the Palestinian Authority being partially governed by Hamas is wrong and the insinuation that Hamas's weapons are being indirectly paid for by aid from the U.S. is also wrong and badly misleading.
Really?
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/...inian-Authority
Giving the PA our taxpayer money is like giving money to Planned Parenthood. They say the money doesn't go to abortion, but just giving them taxpayer money frees up their donations to go to abortion. To top it off, we never see an accounting of where the money goes, from either of the above mentioned parties. The PA is sending money to Hamas, just like our buddies in Qatar to whom we are selling $11B in weapons.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/patr...yrian-jihadists
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Quote:
This is what I mean as I said earlier in the thread:
Quote:
J/C
Main argument about all of this is Israel, due to texts in the Old Testament, believes they deserve the land. If they believed they deserved the land they wouldn't be forcing the hand of their god. Yes, this dates all the way back to when the land was up for grabs after WWII.
Both sides are at fault. Just stop bulldozing homes, bombing the other side in retaliation and just find ways to be friends. Isn't that what the heart of both religious beliefs hold near and dear?
Except that the land was not up for grabs. The jews have been returning since they were able to leave Babylon. This will be their land even if they are scattered again. They will always return.
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Quote:
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True
The bottom line is that his statement about the Palestinian Authority being partially governed by Hamas is wrong and the insinuation that Hamas's weapons are being indirectly paid for by aid from the U.S. is also wrong and badly misleading.
Really?
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/...inian-Authority
Giving the PA our taxpayer money is like giving money to Planned Parenthood. They say the money doesn't go to abortion, but just giving them taxpayer money frees up their donations to go to abortion. To top it off, we never see an accounting of where the money goes, from either of the above mentioned parties. The PA is sending money to Hamas, just like our buddies in Qatar to whom we are selling $11B in weapons.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/patr...yrian-jihadists
I am not going to sit here and read through sensationalist news/commentary/opinion sites.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Who says it's their land? What factual claim do they have for a land? The same goes for the other side, too.
Why don't the same people who support Israel endorse the Native Americans gaining their land back?
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Who says it's their land? What factual claim do they have for a land? The same goes for the other side, too.
Why don't the same people who support Israel endorse the Native Americans gaining their land back?
Factual claim? Their claim is dug from the dirt all the time. As for your 2nd question, why do people assume 'native Americans' were wall to wall in this country? Most of them were migratory and had ranges, not permanent settlements. This country was mostly open land when the spanish landed here, and it became even more so once European diseases spread. There was plenty of land to populate. As I said earlier, the land belongs to those that hold it. Does Italy still claim Jerusalem in honor of Rome? Do the Mongols still claim the majority of Asia?
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I am not going to sit here and read through sensationalist news/commentary/opinion sites.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
So the news isn't the news if it disagrees with your sensibilities? Where do you get your news? MSNBC?
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Factual claim? Their claim is dug from the dirt all the time. As for your 2nd question, why do people assume 'native Americans' were wall to wall in this country? Most of them were migratory and had ranges, not permanent settlements. This country was mostly open land when the spanish landed here, and it became even more so once European diseases spread. There was plenty of land to populate. As I said earlier, the land belongs to those that hold it. Does Italy still claim Jerusalem in honor of Rome? Do the Mongols still claim the majority of Asia?
Please read the Indian Removal Act, where Andrew Jackson signed a law that forced the Native Americans from their birth lands.
PBS Link, if you don't like this one just do a google search, easy to find factual historical information.
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Legend
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Who says it's their land? What factual claim do they have for a land? The same goes for the other side, too.
They're the ones on it.
If someone else takes it from them, then it's not theirs. Until that time, they have the only valid claim.
Land is a game of King of the Mountain. It isn't yours unless you can push the person on it off the top (or get someone like the U.S. to repeatedly do it for you).
Besides, I'm somewhat certain that the Egyptians can stake a claim that goes back further than pretty much anyones...
Browns is the Browns
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Quote:
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Factual claim? Their claim is dug from the dirt all the time. As for your 2nd question, why do people assume 'native Americans' were wall to wall in this country? Most of them were migratory and had ranges, not permanent settlements. This country was mostly open land when the spanish landed here, and it became even more so once European diseases spread. There was plenty of land to populate. As I said earlier, the land belongs to those that hold it. Does Italy still claim Jerusalem in honor of Rome? Do the Mongols still claim the majority of Asia?
Please read the Indian Removal Act, where Andrew Jackson signed a law that forced the Native Americans from their birth lands.
PBS Link, if you don't like this one just do a google search, easy to find factual historical information.
I already know quite a lot about it. As I said, the land was not wall to wall indians. The government moved them from valuable properties, like the Cherokee from the gold mines in GA. In a sense, moving these tribes to federal land kept the tribes and their tribal law intact. Many of the tribes of the north had already been assimilated into the American society and were gone. What most people don't realize is that they were doomed from the second a European set foot here, moved or not.
The land belongs to those that can hold it. Just wait and see what happens in this country, as we are currently being overrun.
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lets use your logic.
So it will be OK for me to forcibly remove someone from their home and claim their home is now mine?
Or better yet
I go into someone's back yard and start building a tree house and claim that I own the back yard and the tree house, is that OK?
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Lets just quote the article from PBS, Quote:
The Cherokee, on the other hand, were tricked with an illegitimate treaty. In 1833, a small faction agreed to sign a removal agreement: the Treaty of New Echota. The leaders of this group were not the recognized leaders of the Cherokee nation, and over 15,000 Cherokees -- led by Chief John Ross -- signed a petition in protest. The Supreme Court ignored their demands and ratified the treaty in 1836. The Cherokee were given two years to migrate voluntarily, at the end of which time they would be forcibly removed. By 1838 only 2,000 had migrated; 16,000 remained on their land. The U.S. government sent in 7,000 troops, who forced the Cherokees into stockades at bayonet point. They were not allowed time to gather their belongings, and as they left, whites looted their homes. Then began the march known as the Trail of Tears, in which 4,000 Cherokee people died of cold, hunger, and disease on their way to the western lands.
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Legend
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Quote:
lets use your logic.
So it will be OK for me to forcibly remove someone from their home and claim their home is now mine?
Or better yet
I go into someone's back yard and start building a tree house and claim that I own the back yard and the tree house, is that OK?
Speaking in generalized terms... absolutely, but you have to be prepared that the someone you force from their home may have allies (in this case, the cops) that will then force you back out and return ownership to them.
In cases where the owner doesn't do so in a timely manner, then "squatter's rights" may enable them to have de facto ownership via adverse possession. They then become the new land owner - until someone else forces them out.
Browns is the Browns
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 that example was just silly lol That logic doesn't work in a civilized world, this is not Game of Thrones or the 1700s. We have laws and rules that prevent people from committing crimes which will harm the people. Forcing someone to leave their home is committing a crime which will be punishable by the rules of the people.
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Right now Russia is posturing to take over Ukraine. Russia has taken plenty of countries over the years. As did the Nazi's. The example you give of a your house in your country with someone else in your country taking it over isn't likely But on the scale of countries all it takes is a war.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
This is what I mean as I said earlier in the thread:
Quote:
J/C
Main argument about all of this is Israel, due to texts in the Old Testament, believes they deserve the land. If they believed they deserved the land they wouldn't be forcing the hand of their god. Yes, this dates all the way back to when the land was up for grabs after WWII.
Both sides are at fault. Just stop bulldozing homes, bombing the other side in retaliation and just find ways to be friends. Isn't that what the heart of both religious beliefs hold near and dear?
Except that the land was not up for grabs. The jews have been returning since they were able to leave Babylon. This will be their land even if they are scattered again. They will always return.
This runs contradictory to everything you have said. I also have to ask if you would be OK if Indians began killing people and taking back their homes. They have the birthrights and if you're dead you obviously didn't have the power to take back your home, so it is theirs, correct?
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And the World news just gets better
I love my life but at the same time, man I can't wait to get off this rock. I just will never understand humanity's proclivity toward violence and conflict. From the news of the Ukraine, Isreal, Afganistan, Iraq... Then watching us bicker over politics, marijuana law reform, corporate greed, gay rights, border control... It's all fatiguing.
Again. Love my life but damn I'm so disappointed in humanity. I wish I could expatriate off this planet.
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Jc
Just wondering because I don't know the answer. If Israel took over the Gaza strip and routed out Hamas totally, would it bring peace to the region? Would the Palestinians be able to live in peace with the rest of Israel? I know Muslims and Christians currently live in Israel.
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Jc
Just wondering because I don't know the answer. If Israel took over the Gaza strip and routed out Hamas totally, would it bring peace to the region? Would the Palestinians be able to live in peace with the rest of Israel? I know Muslims and Christians currently live in Israel.
Nope.
I'll say it again, you guys might wanna do some research before you just up and back Israel like they did nothing wrong. Or ask a Muslim. There's always two sides to the story.
Last edited by Swish; 07/18/14 06:43 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Nope.
I'll say it again, you guys might wanna do some research before you just up and back Israel like they did nothing wrong. Or ask a Muslim. There's always two sides to the story.
Not everyone that sides with Israel is ignorant of the history of the conflict. Personally, I think culpability lies with both sides.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Nope.
I'll say it again, you guys might wanna do some research before you just up and back Israel like they did nothing wrong. Or ask a Muslim. There's always two sides to the story.
Not everyone that sides with Israel is ignorant of the history of the conflict. Personally, I think culpability lies with both sides.
I guarantee that it lies with both sides.
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