DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Camp Battles

Now it begins. All over the league players will compete for playing time.

The Browns will be a national focus because of the quarterback battle between Hoyer and Manziel.

In addition our running backs will be going full tilt. Tate, West Crowell, Baker, Lewis who emerges? Or, will it be running back by committee?

Here are a few predictions: Bridgewater will win the job in Minnesota.

Hoyer will be our starter. Crowell will make some noise during camp and pre-season, but Tate will win the starters role. Once the season begins the Browns will end running the ball by committee.

Miles Austin will resurrect his career and contribute.

Schwartz will stay at RT. Bitonio and Greco will start at guard.

Mingo and Sheard will start. Kruger will sub in packages.

Not sure about Gilbert. He will tested. Skrine and Desir will push hard.

Looking forward to camp battles. Let the games begin.

Has Gilbert signed? Last I checked it was him at the OT from Michigan as the last of the unsigneds.

Don,t think Gilbert has been signed yet,but i would think it should get done here in the next few days.

I'll play....

Manziel has some wow moments but also some WTF moments in preseason. Hoyer looks stable but doesn;t really do anything spectacular. Wins the starting job but fans are divided on the QB by week one (cuz what would we be if we didn't have QB controversy)

Tate establishes himself as the bell cow but West shows spark as well. Dion Lewis is forgotten and eventually cut.

Miles Austin makes us wish we had kept Greg Little. Hamstring issues off the hop.

Mingo starts to show a little more but is still kept as a situational pass rusher. The jury remains out.

Gilbert disappoints and everyone's sure thing is relegated to backup duty. Skrine stays at the number two corner and Desir's potential makes him the new favorite to move up in the lineup.

Whitner makes everyone forget about TJ Ward.

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Mingo and Sheard will start. Kruger will sub in packages.

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This is the only one I really don't agree with...I think Kruger will start opposite Sheard.

Here are my top battles w/ predictions:

1. Gilbert v Skrine- Gilbert wins. Bigger, stronger, and was the 8th overall pick.

2. Greco/Bitonio/Pinkston: Winners- Greco & Bitonio. A rumor leading into camp is Greco looks to be in good shape. Not sure Pinkston can play zone scheme. Bitonio was drafted by regime and they seem to already love him.

3. Hoyer v. Manziel: Hoyer starts but not for long IMO. Hopefully I'm wrong because Manziel still riding the bench means Hoyer is playing well.

4. RB3 between Baker, Lewis, Crowell, and Oby. I think this team will keep 4 RBs and consider Lewis as their scat/ special play guy. Crowell wins out final spot barring an arrest. Baker, Oby cut.

5. Rubin v Winn- I think Rubin starts but over the course of the year Winn takes more snaps and we see how Winn can do with the workload and ability to provide pressure in the pocket. Personally, I think this is Rubin's last year in a Browns jersey. And I hope I'm right...that means Winn has played better, and his younger and cheaper.

Not even gonna touch the WR battles. Outside of Gordon (suspension pending) and Hawkins....anything can happen there.

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Mingo and Sheard will start. Kruger will sub in packages.

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If Mingo flashes, then I could see us run more and more 4-3, with Sheard and Kruger each playing some DE, and with all 3 players on the field at the same time.

I seem to recall hearing Pettine talk about using Sheard at DE some this year anyway.

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I seem to recall hearing Pettine talk about using Sheard at DE some this year anyway.

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He did. Generally speaking, I think the coahes see Sheard doing nothing but getting after the QB and limiting his time in coverage as much as possible. The common thread here is using Sheard like Pettine used Mario Williams. I don't recall Williams in coverage often, but I could be wrong.

This is a big year for Sheard, contractually speaking. If he wants the big $$, he's gotta have a breakout year.

Manziel wins the QB job by a mile, but the old-timers still scream Hoyer is better.

I don't know about, by a mile, but I think Manziel will win the job.

The FO has stated that Hoyer will start the season and we'll be able to see if Manziel is ready in preseason. If Hoyer has us humming great, but I think we're going to see that Manziel is a much more dynamic player and dynamic players win football games. That will be hard for the coaching staff to ignore.

Pettine has said though he doesn't prefer rookies, so we'll see.

I see west being used as a fullback with tate as the main HB. Both will start and be on the field at the same time. Lewis will see a lot of play time if he can catch the ball and stay healthy. I see west getting a lot of redzone runs.

WR is all about who can stay healthy. If we don't get many injuries it could end up being pretty darn good. Still we have a lot of injury prone WR atm.

Bitono will start. The other Guard spot is up for grabs imho. You will see a greatly improved offensive line in regards to pass blocking now that lava is gone.

DT and DE will be so interchangeable that it doesn't matter who starts. I think it will change from game to game depending on how it is game planned. This is probably the strongest part of our team.

CB is gonna be a blood bath. I think skrine will start the year as gilbert will just be too raw but as the year progresses he will come into his own. I think skrine at slot or #3cb will turn him into a ball hawk. We could very wel end up with teh NFL's best defense either this year or next year barring injury.

QB I think Hoyer wins it easily. he will be very efficient and methodical. A lot will depend on how our WR's manage to get open and catch the ball. I think, so long as, we are at least .500 Hoyer will keep the job. If we struggle Manzel will get a shot. I think next year our QBs will be in an all out war for the starting role. I think if Manziel doesn't start this year it will benefit him tremendously.

I think next year we draft bpa or go hunting for an elite WR to take us over the top.

I still worry about the FS and ILB spots though. I think Desir could turn into an awesome FS IMHO.

I dont have high expections for Miles Austin.. All I can really do is HOPE that he can be an influence on 3rd down.. similar what Joe Jurevicious did for us some years back.

tons of agreement from me.

I would add

I expect Poyer to make a run at the FS job.
I expect Ray Agnew to make a run at FB.
I expect either Chandler Jones or Kenny Shaw to make the team.

I am eager to kick it off right now. I am excited for some of these because we will have genuine competition, and in several cases, whoever wins will be an improvement. Camp is camp. It is crucial, cuts will be harder this year, but I want to see them under the gun against strangers. Hope it is not a truly wretched preseason.
I think we might turn a lot of heads and demand some props and respect this season. I really don't want JM to start unless he is lights out and far and away better than Hoyer. Hoyer starts and keeps playing barring injury through the first half of season if possible.

A lot of Brian Hoyer love on here.

Sad that our QB play has been so horrific that people fall so in love with the average, at best, play from Hoyer in 2 games.

I think it was more than that. Players were fired up. The fans were fired up. He does so much more than just come in and look decent. He brings a energy that we have not had in quite awhile.

What about Roberston and Chris Kirksey battling it out for that opposite of Dansby, inside linebacker spot? That should be a very heated battle!

I am of the thinking that the guy who is performing the best should play. I think it is stupid to believe that:

--Manziel should play because he is a first round pick.

--Hoyer should play because Manziel is a rookie.

Play the best guy. I don't give a rat's butt who it is.

Pettine wants competition at all positions and he seems like somone that will play the guy who is showing the most. I dont think he really cares which it is as long as someone steps up. Whether its the pink swan riding drunkerd talking on his money phone or the career backup with a noodle arm and a bum knee, just let someone put a claim to the position.

Browns to name starting QB by third preseason game:

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According to coach Mike Pettine, we’ll have a winner of the Browns’ QB derby in about a month.

In a Q&A published Monday, Pettine told the Akron Beacon Journal the club will pick a starting quarterback by Cleveland’s August 23 preseason game vs. St. Louis.

“I don’t know if I’ll set a date and kind of paint ourselves into a date, but it will be sooner than the third preseason game,” Pettine told Nate Ulrich of the Beacon Journal.

Teams typically play their starters more in the third exhibition game than in any of the other preseason contests, so if the Browns stick to the plan, the No. 1 quarterback will get an extended stint with the first-team offense in an important dress rehearsal for Cleveland.

Hoyer, a sixth-year pro who attended high school in Cleveland, will try to hold off the rookie Manziel, a first-round pick and the 2012 Heisman Trophy winner.

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...preseason-game/

He really talks a lot. Experience will teach him to be more noncommittal.

Browns Training Camp Preview: The top position battles

The Morning Kickoff …

Welcome back, football: The Browns open the Mike Pettine coaching era with the start of training camp this week. Rookies report on Wednesday, veterans on Friday. Saturday is the first practice open to the public.

Our week of previews continues.

Monday: The 10 most important Browns heading into training camp.

Tuesday: The top position battles.

Wednesday: Twenty-five questions from every angle of the Browns’ roster.

Thursday: Ranking the top 50 Browns entering training camp.

Friday: Our favorite Browns training camp memories.

The top position battles

For a team that has lost 11 or more games for six consecutive seasons – and is embarking on its fifth coach in the last seven years – the low number of legitimate position battles at Browns training camp is amazing.

I count three – quarterback, inside linebacker and wide receiver.

Some might include No. 2 cornerback, running back and guard. While I will review those “battles” in this story, I don’t consider them legitimate. I feel the starters at these positions are pre-determined but could change if the favorites falter in training camp.

As usual, the marquee position battle is at quarterback. I think it’s the fifth “quarterback competition” in 16 seasons since the Browns were reborn in expansion in 1999. (It’s hard to keep track.) This one will trump all the previous ones because of the presence of TMZ icon, leading NFL jersey-seller and emerging local pitchman Johnny Manziel.

Manziel’s enormous national celebrity has dwarfed the local storyline of Brian Hoyer finally getting his first career opportunity to take over a team – and it being his hometown team, to boot. This strange dynamic has cast Hoyer in the role of underdog, if not nonentity, nationally.

Most national analysts casually dismiss Hoyer’s chances of winning the starting job because of the palpable perception that owner Jimmy Haslam and President Alec Scheiner want Manziel on the field for marketing purposes. After all, the Browns were promoting Manziel jersey sales on their official Website less than an hour after he was drafted 21st overall on May 8. Within days of drafting Manziel, the club reported a 4,000 increase in season ticket sales. Convesely, prior to the draft and the arrival of Manziel, positive reports of Hoyer’s recovery from ACL surgery barely nudged the ticket meter.

Objective analysts see Hoyer clearly ahead of Manziel as the two meet on level ground at the start of training camp. But even the staunchest proponents of Hoyer acknowledge the challenge ahead for the Cleveland native entering his fifth NFL season.

Joe Linta, Hoyer’s agent, asserted in an interview with ESPNCleveland.com in June, “I think the way it’s going to go, Brian’s going to have the first at bat and the leash will be short.”

1. Quarterback: Brian Hoyer v. Johnny Manziel

They are polar opposites in experience, background, public persona and playing style. They share one common trait on the field, however – an ultra-competitive gene that compels teammates to follow them. Coach Mike Pettine has stated that Hoyer was clearly ahead in the minicamps, but his lead was not insurmountable. The new coaches were won over prior to the draft by Hoyer’s commitment to his profession and his fierce determination to seize the opportunity of his first NFL starting assignment. But there is no denying the coaches were smitten by Manziel and, in fact, were influenced by his draft-day texts to trade up and select him in the first round. This quote from QB coach Dowell Loggains should not be forgotten: “I knew, as soon as I decided to come take this job in Cleveland, I knew that our owner liked Johnny a lot.”

2. Inside linebacker: Craig Robertson v. Chris Kirksey

Entrusted with myriad responsibilities by former coordinator Ray Horton, Robertson suffered in pass coverage. So much so that Pettine and his defensive staff identified a coverage linebacker as a dire priority. Kirksey played outside linebacker at Iowa but timed well enough to be projected as an instant contributor on third-down coverage packages. When GM Ray Farmer selected Kirksey 71st overall in the third round, he consciously assessed the linebacker a surer contributor than any of the wide receivers left on the board from a deep crop.

3. Wide receiver: Nate Burleson v. Miles Austin v. Travis Benjamin v. Charles Johnson v. Anthony Armstrong v. five undrafted free agents

If you subtract Josh Gordon, who probably will be lost to an NFL suspension, and Andrew Hawkins, who is fairly restricted to the No. 3 (slot receiver) position, this is what’s left. Burleson will be 33 by season’s start and Austin is 30. Benjamin and Johnson are returning from ACL surgeries and may be limited at the start of camp. Armstrong is 31 and has 10 receptions in NFL games in the past three years. Without Gordon, this position group is the weakest on the roster. The possibility of a trade for a surer thing exists, but Pettine and Farmer have repeatedly expressed nonchalance about reaching for one.

4. Cornerback: Justin Gilbert v. Buster Skrine

Pettine drove the move to trade down in the first round and pass up stud receiver Sammy Watkins to select Gilbert as the press-corner opposite Joe Haden. Theoretically, Gilbert’s arrival enables Skrine to concentrate exclusively on the slot cornerback role. If Gilbert doesn’t nail down the starting spot from Game One, it will be a huge disappointment.

5. Running back: Ben Tate v. Terrance West v. Dion Lewis v. Isaiah Crowell v. Edwin Baker

Tate was considered the automatic starter and rescuer of the running game until West was drafted in the third round and impressed in the minicamps. Farmer also endorsed the undrafted but talented Crowell as a contender. Lewis was impressive last preseason, conjuring images of scatback Darren Sproles, until he broke a leg. No returning player suffered more from the coaching change. Hard to believe, but Baker finished the 2013 season as the starting back and co-led the team in rushing TDs with two.

6. Guard: Joel Bitonio v. John Greco v. Paul McQuistan v. Jason Pinkston v. Garrett Gilkey

Bitonio, the second-round draft pick, and Greco, are the clear favorites to start at the guard spots. Bitonio suffered a high ankle sprain in OTAs and was shut down in June, but is expected to be ready to compete at the start of camp. If not, any delay from the practice field will cost Bitonio dearly and give McQuistan, a 40-game starter at three positions the past three seasons for the Super Bowl champion Seattle Seahawks, the upper hand to start with Greco. Gilkey took reps at center in OTAs, a signal he is being groomed as a backup at three interior positions.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=35041

It's scary how bad our offense looks.

We don't have an answer at QB. One--or both--of those guys could make it, but neither has completed a full season as a starter. They have more question marks than answers.

We have some RBs that have potential, but we don't have a guy on the roster who has ever gained 1,000 yards or been the number one guy. Additionally, Tate had five fumbles last year in only 181 attempts. Again, more questions than answers.

The WR position looks to be dismal. On paper, they are probably worst in the league.

The OL seems to be the best unit. We have two Pro Bowlers in Thomas and Mack who seem perfect for the zone blocking scheme. Bitonio is a rookie, so who knows? Greco seems a bit tall to be great in the ZBS and Schwartz really struggled last year when he needed help from a TE and even RBs.

That offense could flourish, but it's never a good thing when you have more questions than answers.

The defense looks more stable.

The ILBers don't look to be great and I think we needed a better upgrade, but I do want to say that Horton asked Robertson to do too much in pass coverage because of TJ Ward's limitations. I think we should look at him w/fresh eyes this year.

It would be great if our rookie plays well enough at corner to allow us to move Skrine inside as our slot corner. I think he would excel there.

I agree Vers. Our offense looks PUTRID on paper. Like last in the league putrid.

The question mark at WR is downright scary (I don't know how anyone can think Austin/Burleson are legitimate starters at this point in their careers).

Not to mention the leap of faith it takes to feel comfortable with Hoyer, who IMO, will start this season under center.

Our defense, once again, better be as good as advertised ... if not better. Or else it'll be a LONG year again.

This morning I read what Norv Turner had to say about Bridgewater:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000...th-a-top10-pick

And then read what was coming out of Buffalo about Watkins:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000...rstteam-offense

I know that this is only snap shot of where things are now. However, it really gets to me because the Browns could have had both players and not have made any trades.

Next years first or moving to 22 and giving up a third is all meaningless at this point.

The Browns knew the Gordon situation. Why complicate things. Best player available intersects highest need equals Watkins.

Bridgewater versus Manziel ??? I believe Bridgewater was the best quarterback in the draft.

The Browns could have had both players.

We shall see how this turns out. I will back where we are with Gilbert and Manziel. But I am watching Watkins and Bridgewater as well.

And what did Turner say about Weeden last year?

What did I say?

" I know that this is only snap shot of where things are now."

I am not passing judgement at this point in time. I only said I am interested in seeing how things turn out.

"drafted who the coaching staff wanted. just like is supposed to happen."
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If that is the way it is supposed to be then why have a GM?

Why not let the head coach run the draft and pick the players?

Ray Farmer is the General Manager. His job is to provide the players for the coaching staff. Yes, he listens to them. Yes, they should work together.

But in the end the GM has the final say. He is paid to make the tough decisions.

Nobody had Justin Gilbert as a top ten player. Everyone had Watkins as the best receiver in the draft. A draft that by consensus of opinion was the deepest draft in wide receivers in the last twenty years.

The roster is set. It is time to get started. We shall see how it works out.

I hope they were right. I hope Gilbert is as good as Haden. I hope Manziel pans out and leads this team to the playoffs and beyond.

But just like RGIII and Washington and the Browns with Richardson and Weeden we shall see how it all works out when the ammo goes live.

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If that is the way it is supposed to be then why have a GM?

Why not let the head coach run the draft and pick the players?

Ray Farmer is the General Manager. His job is to provide the players for the coaching staff. Yes, he listens to them. Yes, they should work together.

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because a HC doesn't have time for both. that answer the first 2.

and yea farmer is the gm. the coach tells him what he thinks he needs and he does his best to get them. whats so hard about this?