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I want to take some of what you have said and re-phrase it into one simple line.
Parents and children need to respect the education process.
I believe that this is the single most important factor in determining success or failure in an area. How much do the children and parents respect the education process? If there is respect, then children have a chance of getting a great deal out of the education experience. If not, then they can get little or nothing, no matter how much is thrown into the education pot.
There are a lot of reasons why parents and kids might not respect the education process ... but it is vital that we change that perception, and help people see it as important.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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~ Legend
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I also think we're failing with standardized testing. However, I have no idea on how to measure schools without it.
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Hard to worry about education when you don't know where you'll be living that night, if you're going to have dinner, or if anyone will be there for you when you leave school...
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Legend
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Quote:
I want to take some of what you have said and re-phrase it into one simple line.
Parents and children need to respect the education process.
I believe that this is the single most important factor in determining success or failure in an area. How much do the children and parents respect the education process? If there is respect, then children have a chance of getting a great deal out of the education experience. If not, then they can get little or nothing, no matter how much is thrown into the education pot.
There are a lot of reasons why parents and kids might not respect the education process ... but it is vital that we change that perception, and help people see it as important.
Sorry bro but I think the education process in this country really sucks. I was told I would never make it in the "Real" world by more than one teacher, my son was more or less told the same thing, while my daughter breezed through High School with a 4.24 GPA. Schools spend way to much time worrying about things that don't matter much in todays world while ignoring the the things that really do matter. I have never been a fan of our education process
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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There is that and also the respect factor. Americans simply have no respect for teachers at all. They view them as glorified baby sitters who are only teaching because they can't cut it in the real world.
Any any country in Asia where they blow away our scores parents adore and pay homage to their teachers. Kids don't DARE give a teacher a hard time or parents will go ape chit on them.
Thanks Razor.. a lot of your post comes back to the same thing.. the family structure and the culture. I didn't give my parents crap and I didn't give my teachers crap because the teacher would send me to the office, where I would get my arse whooped, then I would get home and probably get it again. Now if a kid gets in trouble at school, and I've seen it many times, the parents first reaction is defend the kid and blame the teacher or the school. Is it any wonder the kids don't respect the teachers if the parents don't respect the teachers.
That said I think you will get some push back on your first comment. I respect the heck out of teachers, have several in my family. and most of them complain about the same things, their hands are tied by an antiquated kid-coddling system that won't allow them to discipline the way they want (and no, I'm not always talking about spanking) and they won't allow them to hold kids accountable and they won't allow them to get creative in the way they teach...
Real nice post though.. I do agree, we coddle our kids and we expect far too little out of them and sadly, many of them only rise to the level to which we push them... which isn't nearly high enough.
yebat' Putin
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Schools spend way to much time worrying about things that don't matter much in todays world while ignoring the the things that really do matter.
This is correct.
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Quote:
Quote:
I want to take some of what you have said and re-phrase it into one simple line.
Parents and children need to respect the education process.
I believe that this is the single most important factor in determining success or failure in an area. How much do the children and parents respect the education process? If there is respect, then children have a chance of getting a great deal out of the education experience. If not, then they can get little or nothing, no matter how much is thrown into the education pot.
There are a lot of reasons why parents and kids might not respect the education process ... but it is vital that we change that perception, and help people see it as important.
Sorry bro but I think the education process in this country really sucks. I was told I would never make it in the "Real" world by more than one teacher, my son was more or less told the same thing, while my daughter breezed through High School with a 4.24 GPA. Schools spend way to much time worrying about things that don't matter much in todays world while ignoring the the things that really do matter. I have never been a fan of our education process
There are some pretty horrible teachers out there. There are also teachers who the system has broken them down. Both should be fired or at the least retrained. I hate the tenure system. It was supposed to liberate teachers and make it safe for them to teach freely but instead it's become their shelter to do nothing.
Hard to convince a teacher who has taught for 10 plus years that parents care. Yes, there are some parents that do but I would say the vast majority don't. Though I hate to say it but in schools where parents expect their kids to go to college the difference in the parents is night and day. To me it's the expectation and involvement of the parents that make or break a child's success in life most of the time. You always have exceptions but most of the time its true.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Hard to worry about education when you don't know where you'll be living that night, if you're going to have dinner, or if anyone will be there for you when you leave school...
There are few people in that condition in this country these days, unless by choice. There are massive numbers of programs for making sure that people, children especially, do not go hungry. Programs can only go so far in helping people who choose not to help themselves.
As far as "latchkey" type kids, that is a problem, and largely a problem of a one parent society. I would guess that few children born and raised in a 2 parent home face that particular challenge as often as children born to a single mother. I do know that childcare is available for kids of working poor. I filled out tons of paperwork for that program, and other programs, at the last restaurant I managed.
Programs can only go so far. We cannot live peoples' lives for them. We can guide, assist, help, and mentor, but in the end, they have to take steps on their own to make sure that their lives work the way they want them to. It has to be more important to them than collecting a check, and living in a home provide by others.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hard to worry about education when you don't know where you'll be living that night, if you're going to have dinner, or if anyone will be there for you when you leave school...
There are few people in that condition in this country these days, unless by choice.
I can't think of a more perfect example of why we are where we are.
A LOT of people believe this sort of nonsense.
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Legend
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Here is one list of programs available in Ohio. There are tons of types of assistance for those with lower income. Ohio Assistance Programs http://www.needhelppayingbills.com/html/ohio_assistance_programs.htmlPeople just have to take the step to reach out for help. No one is going to show up at their doors.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hard to worry about education when you don't know where you'll be living that night, if you're going to have dinner, or if anyone will be there for you when you leave school...
One of the main tenets of Educational Psychology is that kids need to feel safe and be fed in order to learn. Children are not worried about learning when they don't feel safe or they are hungry.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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~ Legend
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http://feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/hunger-facts/child-hunger-facts.aspxThat just covers the number of participants. That doesn't include the number of kids who do not use SNAPS/free/reduced lunch because of the social stigma and other problems. It also doesn't cover the lack of nutrition that school/government lunches provide. It was just a few years ago that congress decided that pizza sauce is a vegetable.
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Hard to worry about education when you don't know where you'll be living that night, if you're going to have dinner, or if anyone will be there for you when you leave school...
There are few people in that condition in this country these days, unless by choice.
I can't think of a more perfect example of why we are where we are.
A LOT of people believe this sort of nonsense.
I would say there are LOTS of poor people but few homeless children. Almost any city has government housing that provides a place to live based on income. They also provide food stamps. Sometimes money aid and healthcare too depending on Which state your in. People with children always have top priority. Granted a lot of those places are almost as unsafe as living in the streets but least you have a roof over your head and heat in the winter. I have the mental and physical scars to show I know what I'm talking about too.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Food insecure—At times during the year, these households were uncertain of having, or unable to acquire, enough food to meet the needs of all their members because they had insufficient money or other resources for food. Food-insecure households include those with low food security and very low food security.
14.5 percent (17.6 million) of U.S. households were food insecure at some time during 2012.
Essentially unchanged from 14.9 percent in 2011.
Low food security—These food-insecure households obtained enough food to avoid substantially disrupting their eating patterns or reducing food intake by using a variety of coping strategies, such as eating less varied diets, participating in Federal food assistance programs, or getting emergency food from community food pantries.
8.8 percent (10.7 million) of U.S. households had low food security in 2012.
Essentially unchanged from 9.2 percent in 2011.
Very low food security—In these food-insecure households, normal eating patterns of one or more household members were disrupted and food intake was reduced at times during the year because they had insufficient money or other resources for food.
5.7 percent (7.0 million) of U.S. households had very low food security at some time during 2012.
Unchanged from 5.7 percent in 2011.
OK, but why?
That is the important question.
How many of these families blow a huge chunk of their food stamp assistance on the 1st of the month, on junk? I see it all the time. I know people who work in a couple of local convenience stores, and they hate working the 1st week of the month, because they make subs by the hundreds. Most if those are paid for with the food stamp card.
It is the axiom, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. You can give people food assistance, but it is far more difficult to help them make good decisions as far as nutrition, and also as far as budgeting their assistance to last for the whole month.
Maybe we need to add mandatory classes in subjects like budgeting for those on public assistance. I could definitely get behind a program like that. I think that we need more education for people on public assistance, instead of just trying to increase the size of the check.
I used myself as an example of how you can easily live well on less money. I have bought whole pieces of beef, for example, and had them cut the way I wanted them cut. I saved between $0.50- $2.00/LB. I buy things on sale. Why? Because no one is going to help if I run out of money and food at the same time. (well, actually my family would, but I put myself in that position) It can be done, but it takes work. If someone doesn't have a job, then there is no reason why they can't do the same.
We do need to assist the poor in this country, but not by just throwing more dollars into programs. We need mandatory training and education tied into assistance programs. That still won't help everyone, because there are some who just won't be helped, and some for whom no amount of help will ever be enough, but hopefully it would help some. It's better than just throwing money blindly at a problem.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Everything boils down to one thing. Family.
A mother and father who created you and love you and will do anything for you. The support of your aunts and uncles and grandparents all teaching you the things you need to do well in life. That is the foundation and the core of all successful societies. When the family unit breaks down and falls apart so does the nation.
I mean no disrespect to foster and adoptive parents. I think what they are doing is great. I have great respect for them. I am merely stating the ideal. Women and men having casual sex and making kids to put into broken homes is one of the great harms done to our country by loose morals and it has nothing to do with religion. It's just common sense or rather uncommon sense these days ...
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Legend
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Legend
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Hard to worry about education when you don't know where you'll be living that night, if you're going to have dinner, or if anyone will be there for you when you leave school...
There are few people in that condition in this country these days, unless by choice.
I can't think of a more perfect example of why we are where we are.
A LOT of people believe this sort of nonsense.
I would say there are LOTS of poor people but few homeless children. Almost any city has government housing that provides a place to live based on income. They also provide food stamps. Sometimes money aid and healthcare too depending on Which state your in. People with children always have top priority. Granted a lot of those places are almost as unsafe as living in the streets but least you have a roof over your head and heat in the winter. I have the mental and physical scars to show I know what I'm talking about too.
OK, let's go ahead and replace 'don't know where you'll be living that night' with 'living in a crack den'.
What YTown is doing is taking his perspective and his experiences and putting it on others.
But the truth is, if he were born to crackhead parents, and grew up in a community where almost every single person around him denounced and/or sneered at education (to the point where he would be ostracized, mocked and possibly beaten for trying to better himself), while all those around him also advocated using and/or selling drugs, he might see that the term 'choice' isn't that firm.
He doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.
And, frankly, I'm not sure why I'm bothering to give a thoughtful response to the 'we should execute poor people' guy.
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Food insecure—At times during the year, these households were uncertain of having, or unable to acquire, enough food to meet the needs of all their members because they had insufficient money or other resources for food. Food-insecure households include those with low food security and very low food security.
14.5 percent (17.6 million) of U.S. households were food insecure at some time during 2012.
Essentially unchanged from 14.9 percent in 2011.
Low food security—These food-insecure households obtained enough food to avoid substantially disrupting their eating patterns or reducing food intake by using a variety of coping strategies, such as eating less varied diets, participating in Federal food assistance programs, or getting emergency food from community food pantries.
8.8 percent (10.7 million) of U.S. households had low food security in 2012.
Essentially unchanged from 9.2 percent in 2011.
Very low food security—In these food-insecure households, normal eating patterns of one or more household members were disrupted and food intake was reduced at times during the year because they had insufficient money or other resources for food.
5.7 percent (7.0 million) of U.S. households had very low food security at some time during 2012.
Unchanged from 5.7 percent in 2011.
OK, but why?
That is the important question.
How many of these families blow a huge chunk of their food stamp assistance on the 1st of the month, on junk? I see it all the time. I know people who work in a couple of local convenience stores, and they hate working the 1st week of the month, because they make subs by the hundreds. Most if those are paid for with the food stamp card.
It is the axiom, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. You can give people food assistance, but it is far more difficult to help them make good decisions as far as nutrition, and also as far as budgeting their assistance to last for the whole month.
Maybe we need to add mandatory classes in subjects like budgeting for those on public assistance. I could definitely get behind a program like that. I think that we need more education for people on public assistance, instead of just trying to increase the size of the check.
I used myself as an example of how you can easily live well on less money. I have bought whole pieces of beef, for example, and had them cut the way I wanted them cut. I saved between $0.50- $2.00/LB. I buy things on sale. Why? Because no one is going to help if I run out of money and food at the same time. (well, actually my family would, but I put myself in that position) It can be done, but it takes work. If someone doesn't have a job, then there is no reason why they can't do the same.
We do need to assist the poor in this country, but not by just throwing more dollars into programs. We need mandatory training and education tied into assistance programs. That still won't help everyone, because there are some who just won't be helped, and some for whom no amount of help will ever be enough, but hopefully it would help some. It's better than just throwing money blindly at a problem.
I have to disagree. If you have a job and make money you have no way of understanding how at the first of the month the only joy they get in their miserable lives is to go eat something they have been craving. I don't begrudge them a thing. All the training in the world won't make jobs that aren't there suddenly appear.
What we need are jobs. Simple manufacturing jobs that don't require college.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Legend
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OK, but why?
From an article about Josh Gordon (CoP is 'Culture of Poverty'):
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Most people in CoP never learn the skills of long term planning because they have to learn how to survive day to day. Those day to day skills beget decision making that limits the ability to make longer term plans. Cyclically planning ahead, even 24 to 48 hours ahead, is not beneficial for today and becomes an unused or unlearned skill. This plays out in how they spend their money (spending their bank account down to zero is normal), how they socialize (doing whatever comes up at any moment) and the type of employment/money making opportunities they take (make as much money now as possible).
Long term planning skills are often learned by those not in CoP through Social Learning as well. They see their parents planning a budget, or for a trip and start to naturally do this. Kids outside of CoP are also talked through planning with their guardians including what sports they want to play, what they need to do to get to college and how to make smart decisions with their friends. Many of these skills just come natural to many. Some of you may not even remember learning to plan long term, “I just do it. Its common sense,” even though we know that a majority of those skills have been taught to you.
http://factoryofsadness.co/2014/05/31/cultural-issues-impacting-josh-gordon-cleveland-browns/
Again, stop looking at the world through your lens, and use your imagination to imagine the world of other people.
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Hard to worry about education when you don't know where you'll be living that night, if you're going to have dinner, or if anyone will be there for you when you leave school...
There are few people in that condition in this country these days, unless by choice.
I can't think of a more perfect example of why we are where we are.
A LOT of people believe this sort of nonsense.
I would say there are LOTS of poor people but few homeless children. Almost any city has government housing that provides a place to live based on income. They also provide food stamps. Sometimes money aid and healthcare too depending on Which state your in. People with children always have top priority. Granted a lot of those places are almost as unsafe as living in the streets but least you have a roof over your head and heat in the winter. I have the mental and physical scars to show I know what I'm talking about too.
OK, let's go ahead and replace 'don't know where you'll be living that night' with 'living in a crack den'.
What YTown is doing is taking his perspective and his experiences and putting it on others.
But the truth is, if he were born to crackhead parents, and grew up in a community where almost every single person around him denounced and/or sneered at education (to the point where he would be ostracized, mocked and possibly beaten for trying to better himself), while all those around him also advocated using and/or selling drugs, he might see that the term 'choice' isn't that firm.
He doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.
And, frankly, I'm not sure why I'm bothering to give a thoughtful response to the 'we should execute poor people' guy.
Lol, I grew up right next to a crack house. I have many scars from fights from being the only whiteboy in 3 blocks. LOL you wanna talk about rough! LMAO then when I moved to Missisppi I got along great with black people but teh damn rednecks wanted to pick fights with the big Yankee every chance they got. I went to a school that maybe had 15 white people in it. Nothing like having 50 black boys ring up around you in a circle while they test out the new cracker. Hell I dealt with it most of my young life so I had no problem with it and adjusted fine which just pissed off the little rednecks even more LOL. If I had not moved to Mississippi I probably would have grown up a racist because every black dude in the projects of Lorain hated this big white boy. Yet I was still smart enough to go to the magnet school for excellence in science and math.
As for the death comment I already replied about that. I don't wan't anyone to die. I wan't our country to do what it needs to do to fix itself. Civil war breaks out it will be the poor that suffer the most though. When you have more poor than the middle class can support everything starts to crumble. That's historical fact whether you like it or not.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Lol, I grew up right next to a crack house. I have many scars from fights from being the only whiteboy in 3 blocks. LOL you wanna talk about rough! LMAO then when I moved to Missisppi I got along great with black people but teh damn rednecks wanted to pick fights with the big Yankee every chance they got. I went to a school that maybe had 15 white people in it. Nothing like having 50 black boys ring up around you in a circle while they test out the new cracker. Hell I dealt with it most of my young life so I had no problem with it and adjusted fine which just pissed off the little rednecks even more LOL. If I had not moved to Mississippi I probably would have grown up a racist because every black dude in the projects of Lorain hated this big white boy. Yet I was still smart enough to go to the magnet school for excellence in science and math.
I came from a similar background.
Doesn't make it the norm.
That's essentially saying 'you can win the lottery, too, if you play the right numbers!'
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As for the death comment I already replied about that.
And it still sounded incredibly stupid.
I've read your posts. You seem like a very bright and thoughtful guy. Just step away from those comments and admit you misspoke would be my advice.
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OK, but why?
From an article about Josh Gordon (CoP is 'Culture of Poverty'):
Quote:
Most people in CoP never learn the skills of long term planning because they have to learn how to survive day to day. Those day to day skills beget decision making that limits the ability to make longer term plans. Cyclically planning ahead, even 24 to 48 hours ahead, is not beneficial for today and becomes an unused or unlearned skill. This plays out in how they spend their money (spending their bank account down to zero is normal), how they socialize (doing whatever comes up at any moment) and the type of employment/money making opportunities they take (make as much money now as possible).
Long term planning skills are often learned by those not in CoP through Social Learning as well. They see their parents planning a budget, or for a trip and start to naturally do this. Kids outside of CoP are also talked through planning with their guardians including what sports they want to play, what they need to do to get to college and how to make smart decisions with their friends. Many of these skills just come natural to many. Some of you may not even remember learning to plan long term, “I just do it. Its common sense,” even though we know that a majority of those skills have been taught to you.
http://factoryofsadness.co/2014/05/31/cultural-issues-impacting-josh-gordon-cleveland-browns/
Again, stop looking at the world through your lens, and use your imagination to imagine the world of other people.
You do realize that I have said that I feel that we need education, including life skills, and specifically, budgeting as part of the assistance program, don't you? I brought up this very subject, so I am not sure how or why you feel that I am somehow ignorant of it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Posts: 50,547
Legend
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Legend
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This is exactly what I wrote above:
It is the axiom, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. You can give people food assistance, but it is far more difficult to help them make good decisions as far as nutrition, and also as far as budgeting their assistance to last for the whole month.
Maybe we need to add mandatory classes in subjects like budgeting for those on public assistance. I could definitely get behind a program like that. I think that we need more education for people on public assistance, instead of just trying to increase the size of the check.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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OK, but why?
From an article about Josh Gordon (CoP is 'Culture of Poverty'):
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Most people in CoP never learn the skills of long term planning because they have to learn how to survive day to day. Those day to day skills beget decision making that limits the ability to make longer term plans. Cyclically planning ahead, even 24 to 48 hours ahead, is not beneficial for today and becomes an unused or unlearned skill. This plays out in how they spend their money (spending their bank account down to zero is normal), how they socialize (doing whatever comes up at any moment) and the type of employment/money making opportunities they take (make as much money now as possible).
Long term planning skills are often learned by those not in CoP through Social Learning as well. They see their parents planning a budget, or for a trip and start to naturally do this. Kids outside of CoP are also talked through planning with their guardians including what sports they want to play, what they need to do to get to college and how to make smart decisions with their friends. Many of these skills just come natural to many. Some of you may not even remember learning to plan long term, “I just do it. Its common sense,” even though we know that a majority of those skills have been taught to you.
http://factoryofsadness.co/2014/05/31/cultural-issues-impacting-josh-gordon-cleveland-browns/
Again, stop looking at the world through your lens, and use your imagination to imagine the world of other people.
You do realize that I have said that I feel that we need education, including life skills, and specifically, budgeting as part of the assistance program, don't you? I brought up this very subject, so I am not sure how or why you feel that I am somehow ignorant of it.
Because you tried to argue that it's a basic common sense choice.
It isn't.
That's more or less like saying 'Well, if you're born in Iran, you have the choice to be Buddhist. It's up to you, really.'
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Once more, this is exactly what I said: Quote:
It is the axiom, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. You can give people food assistance, but it is far more difficult to help them make good decisions as far as nutrition, and also as far as budgeting their assistance to last for the whole month.
Maybe we need to add mandatory classes in subjects like budgeting for those on public assistance. I could definitely get behind a program like that. I think that we need more education for people on public assistance, instead of just trying to increase the size of the check.
I don't see how what I said is incompatible with what you posted.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Once more, this is exactly what I said:
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It is the axiom, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. You can give people food assistance, but it is far more difficult to help them make good decisions as far as nutrition, and also as far as budgeting their assistance to last for the whole month.
Maybe we need to add mandatory classes in subjects like budgeting for those on public assistance. I could definitely get behind a program like that. I think that we need more education for people on public assistance, instead of just trying to increase the size of the check.
I don't see how what I said is incompatible with what you posted.
You shaved off a pretty big chunk of your post.
That part makes sense, yes.
The part where you talk about yourself and what you did is what I'm talking about.
'Well, I experienced life this way, and that's what others should do...' isn't a great lead-in in terms of deeper cultural understanding.
'You know what? I'm going to shop around for cheap beef. No one has ever even come close to suggesting that to me. All I've ever been told by everyone around me, every example I have at my disposal, is to buy Cool Ranch Doritios. But screw it, let's get frugal and think ahead. No one ever instilled that in me. It's just natural intuition that I have telling me to shop smart'.
Did you shop intelligently for food out of natural intuition? Did Jesus Christ tell you to shop smart? Or did you have an example?
I'm baffled as to how you could read that and think 'that's what I said!' when you more or less displayed the antithesis of those comments.
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We all go by our own personal experiences. Even you do. It is human nature.
I relayed one experience that shows that people can make different decisions that extend their money. I also pointed out that some may need help in that regard. I don't see how the 2 contradict one another at all.
I also have experience growing up in poverty, as well as working with kids who were raised in poverty. I have experience on both sides of the equation. Others do as well. We all have ideas of how best to help those in poverty.
The difference is in how we go about it. Some people feel that we just need to give those in poverty more, and that will be the solution. I do not. I think that we need mandatory education to go along with assistance, because the path we're on is heading nowhere, and throwing more money on the pile does nothing for those in need.
It's like raising the minimum wage. It is a very temporary solution, because prices increase to cover the additional expense of increased payroll costs. Raising the minimum is not the answer, but rather helping people qualify for the jobs that are available today, in large numbers, and for which we are currently importing people from other countries to fill. Helping people improve their lot in life is a better solution than a temporary and artificial band aid.
We need a new approach to poverty in this country, because the current one isn't working. Not at all.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Oh, and to answer your rather insultingly phrased question ......
I thought of buying meat the way I do when I saw a newspaper ad for whole cuts of meat at a local grocery store, with the meat cut free. I used my eyes to see, my brain to contemplate the possibilities, and to figure out the savings, and motivated myself to go so the store and buy the whole beef cut.
I am not even suggesting that this is a course of action for everyone ..... but it is onw that works for me.
Those who go on the first of the month and spend $40-$50 in subs, chips, and pop, could instead buy $15 worth of lunch meat, $5 worth of buns and veggies, and pit it all together for themselves much less expensively. There are common sense ways to handle things, even if you have less experience at living and planning,
If you always run out of food stamps for your family at mid-month, then maybe there's a lesson there that most people would understand. It is, however, because many people on assistance do not buy what they need, but rather what they want ..... and that costs them the ability to later buy what they need.
Last edited by YTownBrownsFan; 07/29/14 02:52 AM.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Lol, I agree I really hit the lottery with my life lmao. I once had to see a shrink as part of a job screening. After we got done she cried lol. I got the job though so all was good with me 8)
I won't take back my comments. I gave three choices. It's obvious to anyone that choice one is an extreme and unsuitable choice meant to make you say damn we can't do that so what about the other 2 options. Thus the disclaimer at the end.
Still how much more you think people are willing to be taxed to death to take care of the poor and needy before they just say screw it. Why should the government get half our paychecks. What do you think happens to the poor when the middle class says screw it? They don't get benefits cause their ain't no money. Then the poor find they only have one choice left and it wont be pretty. If they don't stop the abuse there will be a bloody outcome from it sooner or later.
I am not talking about me either. When you already have 2 million plus signatures in several mid-west states from people who want their states to leave the USA there is a VERY serious and real problem. those states also have rapidly growing militias with no ties to the government. They are over 30,000 strong. They have already showed up a few times to stop the FBI from confiscating their land. We are not talking about country boys with their hunting rifles either but veteran soldiers with para military training. It would not take much for those 30,000 to become 200,000 very quickly. Why do you think Obama is pushing so hard to remove the right to bare arms? Because he knows the proverbial chit is ready to hit the fan.
I am not saying I agree with that or that I support that mind you. I am just stating that its happening right now whether we like it or not. I repeat the only option that saves our country is option 3. We must bring jobs to the USA. Working people don't have time to complain and get into mischief as much.
Last edited by Razorthorns; 07/29/14 05:22 AM.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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J/C For those who think poverty is easy to escape, people are too lazy, and similar arguments: Quote:
“You never really know a man until you stand in his shoes and walk around in them”
-Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird
The ethos of Razor and Swish speak multitudes of what life consists of where many of us are unfamiliar with. My calling takes me to these kind of environments. I'll echo much of what they're saying about life in these locations. Listen to those from there instead of saying you're wrong.
I extended a challenge in a previous thread; I'll echo it here. Step out of your comfort zone, drop all preconceived notions, volunteer somewhere other than your own town, and interact with people you normally don't interact with. You'll be better off for doing that. Living and interacting among another culture other than your own does wonders for an individual.
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I also have experience growing up in poverty, as well as working with kids who were raised in poverty.
The poverty when you grew up is a completely different demon then the poverty now. (Especially in drug infested, gang areas where people don't throw punches they shoot)
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OK, but why?
That is the important question.
How many of these families blow a huge chunk of their food stamp assistance on the 1st of the month, on junk? I see it all the time. I know people who work in a couple of local convenience stores, and they hate working the 1st week of the month, because they make subs by the hundreds. Most if those are paid for with the food stamp card.
It is the axiom, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. You can give people food assistance, but it is far more difficult to help them make good decisions as far as nutrition, and also as far as budgeting their assistance to last for the whole month.
I used myself as an example of how you can easily live well on less money. I have bought whole pieces of beef, for example, and had them cut the way I wanted them cut. I saved between $0.50- $2.00/LB. I buy things on sale. Why? Because no one is going to help if I run out of money and food at the same time. (well, actually my family would, but I put myself in that position) It can be done, but it takes work. If someone doesn't have a job, then there is no reason why they can't do the same.
Going just copy aand paste from the other thread where you made similar comments
Going to sleep hungry is a very realistic because poor people don’t have access to large supermarkets, I was born and raised on Kinsman east Cleveland, there was only 1 super market within roughly 20 blocks radius(save a lot). There were no butchers or other supermarkets; there were only convenience and corner stores which always had higher prices.
If I am buying my food from the local corner stores because I don’t have access to a car then my food assistance will get used rather quickly, I think you are assuming that everyone has a car or access to a supermarket which many poor people don’t.
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You obviously have not read anything I have posted, except what you wanted to read. I grew up in poverty. My father took off when I was 10 years old. My mother had to bust her butt just to put food on the table. We got food stamps for a while, but nothing anywhere near the level of assistance people get today. We had some help from family, but we still struggled. We wore thrift store clothing frequently. I was one of only a few kids on the free lunch program for several years. Single parent homes weren't common 40 years ago. Kids on a free lunch program weren't common in the Boardman School district when I was in Middle School. I know all about growing up in poverty. My mom did so much for us ..... and she truly gave up her social life for us. While my father ran away from his responsibility, and got remarried, my mom never even dated while my brothers and I were in school. She didn't feel that it was right to leave us alone any more than she had to, and she didn't want us having strange men coming through the house. We saw lots of examples of that kind of lifestyle anyway, in some of the apartment buildings we lived in ..... but never from my mom. She would go out with one of her friends from when she was a young woman (female) for coffee about twice a month, but other than that, she devoted her life and energy to making sure us kids were raised right. Do you think that she had it easy, ot had no idea how hard it is today? Please. She had to go downtown for any assistance we received, and was subjected to quite a lot of what would have to almost be called reverse racism, from caseworkers who turned up their nose at the thought os a white person needing help. To this day she says that this might have been the hardest part of raising us kids. Yeah, we had it easy growing up.  My mother, and my brothers and I all worked our ways out of poverty. One of my brothers is a youth minister, and my other brother has worked for the Sheriff's department fr over 20 years. I sold cars for over a decade, and managed restaurants for at least that long. I also had a computer tech business of my own for a while. My mother, one of my brothers, and I all own our own homes today. We were in poverty, but we didn't stay there. As far as working with people in poverty today, you obviously have not read anything I have written over the time you have been here. I have worked with and mentored many inner city kids, helping them to see the opportunities available to them, and the path they have to take to get to where they dream of going. I haven't been associated with a traditional program, but have worked on my own, and mainly with kids who worked with me. There were some older kids and young adults who were already too far into the system of dependency to break free, but some of the 15-17 year old kids were able to stay away from a path that would lead them back into what they claimed to want to escape. I have had some kids who went to college, and made it through, who have told me that I set the example that "anything can be done, if you are willing to work hard enough for it" for them. The last restaurant I managed was a troubled store, and one that no one ever expected to amount to anything ever again. My team and I turned it around. Sometimes, especially at first, I would hear the kids say something like "why bother, no one cares about us anyway". I told them that I cared, and that we were going to turn things around, and that I needed their help to do it. Many bought in. Not all, and some had to be let go for a variety of issues, but many worked hard for me, and trusted me because I trusted them. Some kids said that I was the first person ever to trust them with anything. Many of these kids said that I showed them that nothing is impossible, as we turned the store around together. I think that is more important than programs and such can ever be. I had kids who came to me, to turn in their notice, because they were going away to college, and asking me if they could come back in the summer, because they enjoyed working in my store, and had learned so much there. I had 3 kids who worked at my store who went to OSU. Now maybe they, and the other kids who wound up going to YSU and other schools might have gone anyway, but I like to think that I showed them the value of busting your butt, and how perseverance can pay off. Many have told me that this was the case, so I suspect it is so. You may have experiences working with inner city kids, and if so, then I salute your service. I don't know what you have done. However, we all help in our own ways. As far as working out of my own town, unfortunately, my back makes that impossible. I have worked with my church when I was much younger, but then got out of the church for way too long. I am hopeful that I may have some opportunities now that I have found a new church, but unfortunately, I have to take my physical limitations into consideration now as well.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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They prison system is big business, which has a strategy to keep poor people, poor, so that they will commit crimes and go to jail so they can profit and improve their bottom line. 1. Lobby millions to congress for tougher penalties for petty crimes. 2. Congress creates tougher laws for petty crimes. (pot laws, can't get financial aid if convicted for a drug offense) 3. Poor people go back to jail, which the government must pay for. 4. Rinse and repeat while they laugh to the bank. Quote:
Government spending on corrections has soared since 1997 by 72 percent, up to $74 billion in 2007. And the private prison industry has raked in tremendous profits. Last year the two largest private prison companies — Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) and GEO Group — made over $2.9 billion in revenue.
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According to JPI, the private prison industry uses three strategies to influence public policy: lobbying, direct campaign contributions, and networking. The three main companies have contributed $835,514 to federal candidates and over $6 million to state politicians. They have also spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on direct lobbying efforts. CCA has spent over $900,000 on federal lobbying and GEO spent anywhere from $120,000 to $199,992 in Florida alone during a short three-month span this year.
web page
Very interesting that big business prisons are profiting so much that their stocks are great investments options.
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Over the past several years, one of the best investments has been in shares of prison owners and operators. There are two publicly traded that dominate the industry in the United States – Corrections Corp. of America (NYSE:CXW) and Geo Group (NYSE:GEO).
Both stocks have provided investors with exceptional long-term returns.
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I think it should be illegal for any part of our justice system to be privatized other than lawyers.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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I believe that the teachers union is the cause of the lack of interest in the education of the children and the expense that we the middleclass have to bear the brunt of their greed and ideals,i cant remember any teacher union strike for the kids its always for their benefit 
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I agree but if we paid teachers a fair wage they wouldn't need a union as bad though too. No easy answers because both sides have valid arguments.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Legend
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I agree but if we paid teachers a fair wage they wouldn't need a union as bad though too. No easy answers because both sides have valid arguments.
I have never seen a union decide to dissolve because they were getting paid enough.
Not once.
I do think that teachers, in some cases, are underpaid. However, they work a 9 month schedule, as opposed to a 12 month schedule, so if they make 3/4 of what a comparable field, with comparable education requirements makes, then that would seem "fair" to me ..... at least as a starting point,
I really think that a major problem with education these days is that a lot of kids want to go into teaching because "they like kids". That's all well and good, but it's really not enough. It seems to me that the best teachers are the ones who manage to gain the respect of their students, and learn how to relate to them .... not necessarily the ones who "like" their students the most. Unfortunately, many kids going into education have an unrealistic picture of what it will be like, and that's why we have so many people with education degrees working in other fields. I know that it's not because of the pay, because they should know what the pay structure looks like before they attend a day of college.
I think that the education system needs a major overhaul, and best practices from the best schools should be cataloged and put into practice at other schools, where they can be. I think that we need to get parents more involved in the scholastic lives of their children. Unfortunately, that will take a societal change in certain communities, as opposed to just a new education policy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I really think that a major problem with education these days is that a lot of kids want to go into teaching because "they like kids". That's all well and good, but it's really not enough.
That's part of it; The other is due to thinking "teaching is easy" (a myth continually perpetuated by mostly everyone). A good portion of the "It's going to be easy" crowd end up withdrawing, fail out, or something similar when the tough education classes hit (usually the last 1.5-2 years of a teacher education program).
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manage to gain the respect of their students, and learn how to relate to them .... not necessarily the ones who "like" their students the most.
Yes, yes, and yes. The trouble with "respect" is that this means different things to different areas wherever you go. Fundamentally its the same definition but there's slight twists on it depending where you're at.
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they work a 9 month schedule, as opposed to a 12 month schedule
90% of other professions aren't expected to do work outside of normal work hours, weekends, or even on "vacations". I understand educators should know this before getting into the field; however, the responsibilities of a teacher definitely carry all year round.
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best practices from the best schools should be cataloged and put into practice at other schools
What "works" at one school may not necessarily "work" at another school. There is no one size fits all panacea for education. Best practices are good but we need to think in pluralistic terms for education. Varying degrees of different learners calls for differentiation at all levels.
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I think that we need to get parents more involved in the scholastic lives of their children.
A lot of this falls on the school. Schools need to find meaningful programs, initiatives, and activities for parental involvement. I'd like to see an "adopt a teacher" program in each school. A family would get to know a teacher better, spend time with them outside of school, and educate the teacher on what's most important to the family.
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I don't see the big deal about teaching 9/12 months. It doesn't sound bad, but working with bratty kids every day is probably the equivalent to working 13 months. I think the reform that we need is not one that people are willing to go to. Yet. Maybe if we slip farther and farther down the international rankings list, my ideas could become more digestible.
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I really think that a major problem with education these days is that a lot of kids want to go into teaching because "they like kids". That's all well and good, but it's really not enough. It seems to me that the best teachers are the ones who manage to gain the respect of their students, and learn how to relate to them .... not necessarily the ones who "like" their students the most. Unfortunately, many kids going into education have an unrealistic picture of what it will be like, and that's why we have so many people with education degrees working in other fields. I know that it's not because of the pay, because they should know what the pay structure looks like before they attend a day of college.
I disagree, teachers become teachers because they want to change lives. You have to do a lot to actually become a teacher in Ohio. Heck I think its almost 3 times as much work then it was to get into my career.
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To apply for a teaching license in the state of Ohio you must have
Completed all coursework in a state approved licensure program
Earned a bachelor’s degree, or higher
Passed the state required license tests
Electronically submitted background check reports to ODE (within one year of your ODE Ohio Teaching License application date).
Oterbien's Licensure information
It's not as simple as "I like kids soo much that I want to spend 50k+ take many tests just to make 38k" If that's they case they can work at a daycare and play with kids all day long. Teachers want to make a difference in children's lives which is why they become teachers.
The best practices will not work in every school because every school has completely different set of circumstances which can hinder other schools. A school with children with ESL will always have lower test scores no matter what best practices are used. You can't compare "red apples to granny smith apples" as "apples to apples" in this case. However ODE is doing just that trying to figure out this achievement gap and trying to identify major issues and address them. The program is called Schools of Promise.
ode link
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