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YO bro lets say you had to pee into a cup at work to keep YOUR job,You pee into ONE cup and your employer tells you that you flunked the test, and you demand a second test from your same pee sample and you pass the second test. I know damn well you would be throwing a fit about it, as would I. So why is this so different bud?
Agreed.
It's especially "odd", that if the bottle originally labeled B had been tested first, there's no issue.
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YO bro lets say you had to pee into a cup at work to keep YOUR job,You pee into ONE cup and your employer tells you that you flunked the test, and you demand a second test from your same pee sample and you pass the second test. I know damn well you would be throwing a fit about it, as would I. So why is this so different bud?
What's different is that if my job depended on it neither test would have shown even a trace of the banned substance.
If Gordon gets off by a technicality I'm fine with it. Obviously, since he passed 70 previous tests and then showing such a small, trace amount of the banned substance, he's not been smoking the stuff. And that's a far cry from the lost drug addict so many pegged him with since the news came out during the draft.
Still, if my million dollar job depends on it I wouldn't be present in a situation where I could even smell the stuff in the air. Any reason would suffice to excuse myself from the area while the stuff is burning.
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I don't think that anyone is whining about this or saying poor poor Josh - though I could be wrong about that. I think this thread is a discussion more about the legal aspects and trying to figure out what the chances are that he can actually argue his way out of this.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
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Are you guys still whining about this? 
Poor, poor Josh. He never had a chance because the NFL is soooo unfair. 
Maybe I didn't pick up on the names of posters who thought Josh was getting unfairly treated. I don't always make those connections, especially when the thread gets as long as this one has.
That said, I'm getting a totally different read from this than you are, Vers.
Its seems to me that a good number of folks have moved beyond the "poor Josh/hang Josh" conversation, and are now discussing the various defense/prosecution angles of the case as it unfolds. The technicalities that will no presumably be used in the hearing seem to be dominating the recent discussion... and I find the various POV's interesting.
But then... I'm one of the last posters to see 'agenda' being worked, unless it's so obvious Stevie Wonder could see it (hehe) 
Just a different take on a story I'm sure we all would like to see resolved-
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Quote:
Quote:
YO bro lets say you had to pee into a cup at work to keep YOUR job,You pee into ONE cup and your employer tells you that you flunked the test, and you demand a second test from your same pee sample and you pass the second test. I know damn well you would be throwing a fit about it, as would I. So why is this so different bud?
What's different is that if my job depended on it neither test would have shown even a trace of the banned substance.
If Gordon gets off by a technicality I'm fine with it. Obviously, since he passed 70 previous tests and then showing such a small, trace amount of the banned substance, he's not been smoking the stuff. And that's a far cry from the lost drug addict so many pegged him with since the news came out during the draft.
Still, if my million dollar job depends on it I wouldn't be present in a situation where I could even smell the stuff in the air. Any reason would suffice to excuse myself from the area while the stuff is burning.
Richard Sherman, last year, got off last year because his sample cup had a small hole in it, and the technician out the sample into a new cup as a result.
They never argued that he was innocent .... because he was guilty as could be ...... but rather they argued that the test process was not "legal", because the clean chain of custody could have been broken by virtue of changing cups. because of this, the sign off on the sample cup was broken in order to change cups.
Gordon's lawyers will argue a similar case ... onty this one will be on the process that had 2 samples come up with such different results, one in violation, and one not. Any ensuing tests are invalid, because they would not have been necessary except for the failiure of the 1st test, and thus all of the results should be thrown out.
I think that it is a valid course to follow, and one that stands a fair chance of success.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Bro, it's different because the first time I got popped would be the last time. Oh, and those aren't just words, it's an actual fact.
You feelin' me, bro? A lot of us like to party. But, when you get popped and it threatens your job security, you quit. Completely. If you don't, you are a complete ass.
You feelin' me, bro?
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jc...
No matter how this turns out, Goodell and Rice should get a room somewhere. What a disgrace Goodell's press conference was yesterday in regards to Rice. He couldn't stop fawning all over a wife beater and justifying his pathetic punishment. The guy is a complete self absorbed ass and a disgrace to the NFL. What a shame that he is commissioner of the NFL.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Clem and Jester. I think you are both good guys.
I suppose it is just perception on how you and I look at this????
There are a multitude of posts on here complaining about Ray Rice. There are a multitude of posts on this thread about how the NFL's policy is more strict than other professions. There are a multitude of posts on this thread about how marijuana is legal in a couple of states and less harmful than alcohol.
LOL...............I am not arguing against those points, but the facts are that Gordon knew the rules before he broke them. And he broke them repeatedly. I can't even believe this is a debate.
As a teacher, I have to follow certain rules. I think a bunch of them are nonsense. However, in order to stay employed, I follow those rules. What the hell are you guys debating? Are you REALLY saying he didn't know the rules? It sounds like excuses to me. And I believe people are making excuses because he has so much talent. I did not hear any excuses for Bess. And he had a better case, because he was actually mentally disturbed. No, we don't give a crap about him and his mental problems, but we are going to scream bloody murder for a guy who is showing no regard for the rules and is at the point where he is almost rubbing it in the face of authority.
Seriously guys.............how many times has he been caught? And this latest one? And then he goes out w/in a couple of months and gets pulled over w/weed in the car on one occasion and gets a DUI on another and gets bailed out by a guy who has been convicted of felony weapon charges, drug charges, and fraud!!! Are you freaking kidding me?: And you are defending him like he is some misunderstood soul? Sheesh!!!
I like both of you guys. I really do. I have a lot of respect for both of you. But please, don't act like I am the one being unreasonable! I love the Browns. I have been a fan for longer than most of our posters have been alive. I had season tickets since 1981 and just gave them up last year. I drove from NC and SC to Brown's games for years! I will go to the Carolina and Atlanta games this year. I am a freaking fan! A freaking loyal fan! But, as God as my witness..............I don't like how this is playing out. He is freaking guilty. Own up and pay your dues. I would have more respect for him if he just did that. Cough medicine and second hand smoke. LOL...............yeah, right.
Do you really think that if he gets off that this is over? Do you really think he will have learned his lesson? Are both of you that gullible? The best thing for him is to face the music, rehab himself, change his lifestyle, and come back and be a productive player and citizen for the rest of his career. He is a young man. There is plenty of time. Beating this thing on a technicality will only prolong the agony because I can almost guarantee that he will get busted again.
Now, some will construe this as I hate Gordon and I hate marijuana and I hate the Browns and that I am stupid...........blah, blah, blah.
I am just hoping that I can get at least a couple of you to think.............
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jc...
I'm conflicted. I want the Browns to win so part of me hopes he gets off. The other part wants to see him get the full year but have it modified so he can be in the facility where he can have some structure to help him out.
He broke the rules. He let his teammates down as well as all of us fans. After breaking the rules he is still hanging around with pot heads. He claims it was second hand smoke (I don't buy it) yet he gets stopped with someone who has weed on them after the fact. To make things worse he gets busted for DWI on top of it all. This kid needs help and a two week stay in rehab doesn't cut it. I would rather lose him for the year and have him for the rest of his career then have him slide only to get busted again, making it difficult for him to ever play another down in the NFL.
#gmstrong
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LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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jc...
No matter how this turns out, Goodell and Rice should get a room somewhere. What a disgrace Goodell's press conference was yesterday in regards to Rice. He couldn't stop fawning all over a wife beater and justifying his pathetic punishment. The guy is a complete self absorbed ass and a disgrace to the NFL. What a shame that he is commissioner of the NFL.
Agreed. He formed his opinion, and as far as I know determined the sentence, after sitting down and talking with Rice. Who the hell knows what went on in that interaction. Now he washes his hands and dumps Gordon onto the whims of the arbitrator. Then he has the gall to say they require consistency. IMO, that's worth whining about.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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jc...
No matter how this turns out, Goodell and Rice should get a room somewhere. What a disgrace Goodell's press conference was yesterday in regards to Rice. He couldn't stop fawning all over a wife beater and justifying his pathetic punishment. The guy is a complete self absorbed ass and a disgrace to the NFL. What a shame that he is commissioner of the NFL.
Goodell should resign, or be fired over this fiasco. It is a shockingly poor reflection on the NFL, one that says that abuse is not that big a deal ..... when 2 games is significant punishment for a man beating a women into unconsciousness. This is the kind of thing that can damage the NFL for a long time to come. I wonder how women will feel about a league that gives a very minor suspension for a violent attack. He should be replaced immediately. His press conference was an embarrassment, and one of the most disgusting examplesof excuse making I have ever seen.
He needs to go, and the NFL and MFLPA need to revise their rules about punishment for violent behavior like domestic abuse.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I do think Gooddell's time in the league has been marred by more controversy than positives. He does seem to very much have a chip on his shoulder and does not handle criticism well (remember the 2012 "I gotcha" when he was booed by fans at the draft?). I, for one, am not his biggest fan, but I think the owners like him, which probably means he'll stay.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Vers - we aren't saying you are being unreasonable. We are playing lawyer. Debating how are we going to get our client off.
Y - I haven't read any of the Ray Rice thread. Do we know what happened in the elevator? Everyone is up in arms about the video. The video they show on tv has Rice pulling her out of the elevator. From that, we don't know what happened in the elevator. She could have passed out drunk for all that shows. Supposedly Rice admitted guilt? What I would like to see is the video from inside the elevator. I know Vegas casinos have video cameras in their elevators. I have to believe Atlantic City does the same. Where is that video?
Am I perfect? No
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jc...
As a Browns fan, what do I want?
I want the Cleveland Browns treated with the same degree of respect that other teams in the NFL are treated with.
I want the Cleveland Browns treated with the same respect that the NFL treats the Pittsburgh Steelers with...
I want the Cleveland Browns treated with the same respect that the Baltimore Ravens are treated with...
What I want has less to do with the individuals (players) involved and what they may have done to offend the NFL and more to do about the favors the NFL does for some franchises.
I'm tired of my Browns being treated like the illegitimate child that the NFL was forced to take in.
If Roger Goodell bends over backwards to help the Ravens...I expect no less from the NFL, for my Browns.
Last edited by mac; 08/03/14 07:59 AM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Agreed. The NFL has its favorites and the Browns clearly are not one of them.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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They are still mad that we jammed their fax machines for a couple months in 1995.
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Bro, it's different because the first time I got popped would be the last time. Oh, and those aren't just words, it's an actual fact.
You feelin' me, bro? A lot of us like to party. But, when you get popped and it threatens your job security, you quit. Completely. If you don't, you are a complete ass.
You feelin' me, bro?
Oh I'm feeling you, and your still taking this personal. Feel free to tell me if I am wrong but if the exact same test results would have come up on Joe Thomas you would have had a problem with the test because Joe has always been clean. However since Josh has been busted before you have no problem with the test results. That's where we disagree. I have a problem with any test that is not accurate no matter who the test was done on.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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A 15% variance in 2 tests from the same sample raises serious doubt about the validity of the method. A year of a man's already short career should not be decided on that.
On the question of second hand consumption - can anyone answer whether it is possible to test at 15 nanograms from inhaling weed second-hand? I have no idea, personally.
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jc There is some good info in here about MJ testing: http://www.norchemlab.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/marijuana.pdfSome snippets (my words): THC is broken down into many different compounds. Some (like immuno-assay) test for all of them, while more specific tests like LCMS only test for one specific metabolite, so the cutoff for the latter is lower, and also why you shouldn't compare one value to another if they are using different methods. The federal guidelines for the immuno-assay screening test are higher than the NFL (50ng/ml vs 20ng/ml) but the confirmation LCMS test is the same-- 15ng/ml. Some agencies have a zero tolerance policy. The immunoassay test is at best +/- 10%. The LCMS test is better than +/- 3 ng/ml.
Last edited by hasugopher; 08/03/14 09:26 AM.
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A 15% variance in 2 tests from the same sample raises serious doubt about the validity of the method. A year of a man's already short career should not be decided on that.
On the question of second hand consumption - can anyone answer whether it is possible to test at 15 nanograms from inhaling weed second-hand? I have no idea, personally.
1) 15% when you are talking nanograms isn't that much.
2) It is possible but you have to be beyond neglagence by placing yourself in a situation that you would inhale enough to be above 15ng.
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Vers, educator to educator, I actually for once agree with you. Perhaps our experience with the youth of today enables us to see this situation for what it is and ultimately see the forest (future Browns Super Bowl) through the trees (temporary inconvenience, permanent improvement however it goes for JG). Hopefully, he gets a suspension, learns from it, puts the pieces of his life back together and helps the Browns win a Super Bowl!!!
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A 15% variance in 2 tests from the same sample raises serious doubt about the validity of the method. A year of a man's already short career should not be decided on that.
On the question of second hand consumption - can anyone answer whether it is possible to test at 15 nanograms from inhaling weed second-hand? I have no idea, personally.
Is that because you don't inhale it on the second-hand, only the first? 
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1) 15% when you are talking nanograms isn't that much.
Maybe I have the wrong handle on things, but when you are talking such low numbers as 15 (the limit for positive test) and 16 (the value of his first test), then I think 2.4 (the difference between his first and second test) seems like a relatively large number - if they came from the same urine sample and were subjected to the same test. It makes me question the value of the test altogether.
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Vers - we aren't saying you are being unreasonable. We are playing lawyer.
Speaking only for myself, that was the motivation behind my previous response to Vers.
To Vers: I really don't dispute any views you have/had about the kid, or what's good for him. If you read my first post in this thread, you'll see that I'm prepared to watch the whole season without Gordon. Believe it or not, I'll actually be OK with it. Not happy, mind you- 'resigned' I guess is a better word for it.
Hope that explains my stance a little better.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Is that because you don't inhale it on the second-hand, only the first?
Never touch the stuff. I'm saving that, along with golf and fishing for my retirement, if I live to see it.
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Ray Rice got off light cause as was first reported and now hid away by the NFL...Ray Rice is a "GOOD GUY" ... gee is that subject-able? Definitely the wrong message...now if he Punched a Gay person the politically correct NFL stance would have been to throw the BOOK at him I'm sure.
Guess women just don't rate.
Josh Gordon:
1. If I thought he had an uncontrollable habit with Weed. I would hope he gets banned and hits that rock bottom we here about and turn his life around.
2. I think due to the 70 passed test consecutively for MARIJUANA pretty much tells me the kid does not have a habit and now we have this borderline test result which possibly has not been experienced where the arbitrary double specimen vile to be tested were on opposite sides of failing/passing. Well they picked the higher results vile as "A" so he failed...also question has to be brought up...did they put "A" on that vile before or after the test??? something JG's lawyers are probably bringing up.
But point Blank - I think JG hangs with the wrong crowd that is TRUE. The worst thing for Gordon is to take away for ONE YEAR all his Positive Hang around people....leaving him with nothing but the Rotten APPLES!!!
Jmho...hope he gets off!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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Is that because you don't inhale it on the second-hand, only the first?
Never touch the stuff. I'm saving that, along with golf and fishing for my retirement, if I live to see it.
I've never touched the stuff either. Don't ever plan to start. I'll chomp on a cigar or smoke a pipe of tobacco in my retirement rather than smoke pot.
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Ray Rice got off light cause as was first reported and now hid away by the NFL...Ray Rice is a "GOOD GUY" ... gee is that subject-able? Definitely the wrong message...now if he Punched a Gay person the politically correct NFL stance would have been to throw the BOOK at him I'm sure.
Guess women just don't rate.
Josh Gordon:
1. If I thought he had an uncontrollable habit with Weed. I would hope he gets banned and hits that rock bottom we here about and turn his life around.
2. I think due to the 70 passed test consecutively for MARIJUANA pretty much tells me the kid does not have a habit and now we have this borderline test result which possibly has not been experienced where the arbitrary double specimen vile to be tested were on opposite sides of failing/passing. Well they picked the higher results vile as "A" so he failed...also question has to be brought up...did they put "A" on that vile before or after the test??? something JG's lawyers are probably bringing up.
But point Blank - I think JG hangs with the wrong crowd that is TRUE. The worst thing for Gordon is to take away for ONE YEAR all his Positive Hang around people....leaving him with nothing but the Rotten APPLES!!!
Jmho...hope he gets off!
I don't know if he's been hanging around with positive people or not. My guess, would be that he isn't but, as for Gordon himself, he isn't smoking pot but his crowd is. They don't have NFL careers on the line like Gordon does.
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jc If Gordon suspension sticks, the case was lost at bargaining table not in court Posted by Mike Florio on August 2, 2014, 5:52 PM EDT Gordon Friday’s marathon appeal hearing regarding the Josh Gordon suspension will continue on Monday. Hearing officer Harold Henderson, an employee of the league office designated by Commissioner Roger Goodell to resolve the issue, is required to issue a ruling within a reasonable time after the hearing ends. There’s no middle ground; under the substance-abuse policy, a positive test occurring for a player in Stage III of the program results in a mandatory one-year suspension. But if Gordon ends up being suspended for a full year, the blame won’t fall on lawyer Maurice Suh for anything he did or didn’t do during the course of the hearing. Gordon’s fate already was sealed at the bargaining table between the NFL and the NFL Players Association. Every provision, aspect, and wrinkle of the substance-abuse policy flows from negotiations between the league and the union. A violation for a player in Stage III triggers a one-year suspension because the NFLPA agreed to that sanction. The limit for marijuana metabolites is 15 ng/ml (an order of magnitude lower than the WADA limit of 150) because the NFLPA agreed to that amount. The inherently unfair “A” bottle/”B” bottle procedure, which allows the “B” bottle to confirm a positive test without actually being positive itself, exists due to the outcome of arm’s-length negotiations between management and labor. Changes that may have helped Gordon’s cause remain caught up in the impasse that exists regarding HGH testing. Without a deal on HGH testing, no adjustments have been made to the 2010 version of the substance-abuse policy, nearly three years to the day since the latest labor deal was signed. If the league and the union had hammered out a deal on HGH testing, Gordon may not be facing a one-year suspension. If Henderson decides not to suspend Gordon, it ultimately will happen because Henderson has decided (or was told) to give Gordon a pass. And that could happen because the NFL wants the ongoing criticism arising from the two-game Ray Rice suspension to die. It won’t die if/when a guy who may be addicted to a non-performance-enhancing substance now legal in two of 22 states in which the NFL does business gets thrown out of the NFL for eight times the magnitude of the punishment for a guy who intentionally (not mistakenly) punched a woman in the head, knocking her out. Two wrongs ordinarily don’t make a right. In this case, choosing to go easy on Gordon despite the plain terms of the substance-abuse policy could go a long way toward getting people to quit complaining so loudly about the decision to go easy on Rice. While an incorrect application of the policy, it would be the right thing to do as to Gordon. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...e-not-in-court/
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Also no
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My guess, would be that he isn't but, as for Gordon himself, he isn't smoking pot but his crowd is. They don't have NFL careers on the line like Gordon does.
Exactly my point. I'm saying his positive influences are probably fellow players on the team and some coaches. We will take those all away as he cannot associate with them. And what? have him 24 7 with the rotten apples that are his current nemesis.
That is my worry about this. Especially in my mind I think he's heading in the right direction regarding Weed use and Maturity something he never did prior. I hope he gets off and he continues his progress in maturity and association with some fellow young athletes.
jmho
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jc...
No matter how this turns out, Goodell and Rice should get a room somewhere. What a disgrace Goodell's press conference was yesterday in regards to Rice. He couldn't stop fawning all over a wife beater and justifying his pathetic punishment. The guy is a complete self absorbed ass and a disgrace to the NFL. What a shame that he is commissioner of the NFL.
Goodell should resign, or be fired over this fiasco. It is a shockingly poor reflection on the NFL, one that says that abuse is not that big a deal ..... when 2 games is significant punishment for a man beating a women into unconsciousness. This is the kind of thing that can damage the NFL for a long time to come. I wonder how women will feel about a league that gives a very minor suspension for a violent attack. He should be replaced immediately. His press conference was an embarrassment, and one of the most disgusting examplesof excuse making I have ever seen.
He needs to go, and the NFL and MFLPA need to revise their rules about punishment for violent behavior like domestic abuse.
+1 I won't be happy until he's gone. His handling of this matter, and his subsequent cavalier posture calls for nothing less than immediate dismissal, IMHO.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
So you are for players beating women unconscious and having the leader of the NFL basically say he is a good guy? CEO's of companies have stepped down for less....
#gmstrong
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
So you are for players beating women unconscious and having the leader of the NFL basically say he is a good guy? CEO's of companies have stepped down for less....
never met my wife. she did the same to me.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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~ Legend
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~ Legend
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I agree. I feel like Goodell has really killed the spirit of the game. That said, he was dealt a horrible hand.Looking back, Tagliabue made out like a bandit.
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Legend
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Legend
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I agree with that. He left at the perfect time.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So you are for players beating women unconscious and having the leader of the NFL basically say he is a good guy? CEO's of companies have stepped down for less....
never met my wife. she did the same to me.
Yeah, but you probably liked it 
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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No, I just think it is hilarious how some are acting so indignant and righteous while making a call to have someone fired. It comes across as contrived and phony when people jump on bandwagons of indignity.
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Legend
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Legend
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vers...you talking about Roger Goodell?
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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