DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Camp Stuff Continued.......

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No matter who is guarding him (including Haden) he just makes them look bad. He has the quickness and the moves that nobody can keep up with. He is making guys look foolish in camp.

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This gives me a ray of hope to bask in for a minute or two.

I've been concerned about the "patchwork" WR corps we have, but realize that it was kind of necessary, what with dropping Bess and letting Little go. Even grabbing Sammy watkins would not have made me feel too much more confident, him being a rook and all.

That Hawkins can run away from our D right now makes me smile... and want to see him against D's that don't stack up as well as ours.


(And hey- playing against our guys all preseason can't hurt to have him ready come Game One, know what I mean?)

Good news!

I think Snead is gonna be the one to emerge. His style of play is gonna make him a favorite target for which QB is in there. He may just be a camp cupid and disappears in the games but great hands, wide target and fights for the ball are traits that will earn him a spot.

he makes me feel big lol. He is listed as 5'7 which is my height, but he may be 5:6 as I looked taller than him standing close to him. BUT the kid has extreme quickness (not speed) and he runs perfect routes. I am really excited to see him in our offense this year. He has hands like Fred Biletnikoff and he doesnt even need then stick em

and he is NOT SLOW. I have seen him run away from other players and make them look slow. I don't care what the stop watch says this kid can play

I'm attending camp tmr. I think its going to be a real interesting camp following the lions game.. Just hope for no rain till after practice.

I agree. We're going on Tuesday and I assume JFF will get some serious looks with the 1s all week. I think the QB derby is a dead heat now

This post is meaningless without a follow-up report.

(hint, hint)




Let us know whatcha see, mkay, Saint?

Well guys.. Post some questions.. I'll do my best to answer what I see.

We made an executive decision to cancel b/c of the rain.. I am pretty disappointed. I don't want to get there and have to turn back around because practice is indoors. Sorry guys.

I believe in another thread this morning he said that he wasn't

J/C
I saw Mary Kay reported earlier that Marquis Gray got a concussion in the game Saturday. Wonder if was that hit when he was reaching to make that catch across the middle? I remember a couple of guys commenting that they thought it should have been a penalty.

Yeah, not sure on that. Luckily we have until a week from today for him to recover.

Twitter is telling me that Brian Hoyer is either having a terrible day or Buster Skrine is having a great day. Or both. Hoyer throwing INT's

From what I can tell, Hoyer has looked only okay. One of his INTs Austin fell down.

Hoyer's days are numbered.

You forgot to mention JM fumbling his first snap. On the record. 8 Tweets about Hoyer's INT by the beat writers (some mention Austin slipping some do not). On Manziel's Fumble there was 1 -ONE- tweet on that. Yeah the media aint biased on this one. And most will hope Manziel fails when/if he wins the starting position.

Note the O had a pretty dismal day - defense was on fire, Scrine supposedly had an Awesome day. Hoyer possibly on request of coaches was looking to pick on Skrine - 2 defended by Skrine 3rd was a deep ball dropped by Benjamin I believe or possibly Hawkins.

The Offense under Hoyer finally scored a TD - Scoring play was a 28 yard Screen to Austin.

I still expect Hoyer to Start the season of course to be on a short leash. He executes plays better than JM right now. JM Makes plays out of nothing better.

I know coaches prefer Execution of their game plan. If JM gets the nod before his time it will be a diservice to JM and the Browns. Pressure is great. Media without a doubt is trying to BUY JM to the starting position. Yesterday golfing - forgot I had My Browns Golf shirt on and hat. All of a sudden the kid who does the carts is asking me about Manziel...I'm like what...he repeated his question then I remembered I had Brown's garb on...lol Everyone is fascinated by him. that is for sure.

No doubt. I was having BBQ at Famous Dave's here in Smyrna and a waiter asked me what I thought about Manziel. lol

I told him that I hadn't really seen enough of his play to form an opinion but overall felt positive in what I'd seen so far.

Smyrna - Granpa came over on a boat from Smyrna, of course in Turkey lol

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Yeah the media aint biased on this one. And most will hope Manziel fails when/if he wins the starting position.

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What makes you say that? I think that the media just wants a great story, and Manziel either succeeding, or failing, in spectacular fashion gets them that. I think that most of the local media wants him to succeed. I think that the national media wants a great story. I think their biggest fear is an average, boring, .500 type Manziel.

What makes you say that? I think that the media just wants a great story, and Manziel either succeeding, or failing, in spectacular fashion gets them that.

True Manziel will be a great story to the media - of course only if he is out there...ergo the main push.

Why do I say they'll probably hope for the demise of JM. Well most were telling all why Manziel was not going to make it in the NFL. Oh he shouldn't go in the 4th round let alone 1st stuff.

But also they love to do that from what I see...Build them up and Tear them down...lol

But for the fact also he will struggle as all rookies should in a new system...the transition is Brutal. Some of us Browns fans will be patient but the media will not - that is why I am saying they will tear him down once they prop him up. He will struggle more than he will impress - just too much for him to absorb. If we were a machine well oiled and he takes over. Possibly. Our OL a big plus for him. Our system I hated the fact that they had him running almost exclusively the Pistol Offense. I think he will do great in our basic OZB scheme with from under center and the boot leg was made for him...I remember oh whats his name from Denver, QB w/ beard retired early was great in the bootleg.

I am so happy we got our Franchise QB in JM...now I wish him to be groomed to work at the best. 4 games would be too fast but he would know SO MUCH MORE 4 weeks into the season then Week one.

At the minimum he should sit till the bye, of course is Hoyer is tearing it up then he sits longer.

jmho

I think that Manziel will learn a lot faster by doing, than by watching.

I think that he should, and will, wind up starting.

Browns QB Brian Hoyer begins important week working with starting offense

BEREA — In the Great Quarterback Competition of 2014, every throw is evaluated, every sentence parsed and every action analyzed.

Incumbent Brian Hoyer took all of the first-team repetitions on a rainy Monday after starting the preseason opener Saturday. Rookie coach Mike Pettine answered affirmatively that means Hoyer’s still in front in the battle with rookie Johnny Manziel.

“Yeah. Nothing’s changed,” Pettine said. “If there was a significant change on the depth chart, it would be reflected on the field.”

Hoyer said the same thing he’s been saying since the spring.

“To me, this is my team until someone tells me otherwise. Come out here and just try to be the best quarterback I can,” he said.

That message hasn’t been delivered, but that doesn’t mean it won’t be. Pettine said Sunday there was no “clear-cut favorite,” and Manziel has been closing fast, including an intriguing debut Saturday against the Lions.

Pettine said Monday both quarterbacks will get practice reps with the first team this week, but he hasn’t decided on a starter for Monday night’s game in Washington and won’t for a few days. A Manziel start would give him game reps with the first team, offering a more even comparison with Hoyer.

That’s not reason enough for Pettine.

“To me, if you’re going to put a guy in a starting role, that needs to be earned,” he said.

What does Manziel have to do in the next few days to earn the start, and give ESPN its desired Manziel-Robert Griffin III matchup?

“Just continue to master his craft,” Pettine said. “Run the offense. Be efficient. I don’t think there’s any one thing, like it’s a tangible thing where you can say if he does this then this will happen.”

Pettine wants to name his starter before the third preseason game so the debate stops and the first unit has time together to prepare for the regular season. That raises the stakes for the next four practices and especially Monday night against the Redskins.

“I’m approaching them the same way,” Manziel said. “I think I need to just continue to learn, continue to absorb everything I can in this short amount of time, and at the end of the day, it’s just play football. Go out and go through your reads and execute and move the ball down the field and score points.

“I think whoever does that the best obviously is going to have a better chance at the end of the day.”

Manziel insisted he isn’t worried about still being on the second team, and said he isn’t even hoping for the start in Washington.

“I hope to do whatever the coaches tell me to do,” he said. “I’m continuing to get the reps that I’m given and go through those and make the most out of every opportunity that I have when I’m in there.”

Neither quarterback had a strong day in the rain. Hoyer went 5-for-15 with a touchdown and two interceptions in team drills, while Manziel couldn’t maintain his momentum with a 4-for-14, one-touchdown, one-fumble, two-sack performance. It was a letdown after what Pettine described as “solid” debuts Saturday.

“I felt like for the most part I went to the right spot with the ball, tried to get to some checkdowns and try and work through my progressions, (which) I’m still getting better at,” said Manziel, who was 7-for-11 for 63 yards and rushed six times for 27 yards vs. the Lions. “I thought it was a good starting point and took a lot away from the first game.

“The more and more the clutter gets out, the more and more that I just go out and snap the ball and don’t have to worry about anything, about going through my reads, and being extremely decisive.”

Hoyer was 6-for-14 for 92 yards and knew exactly what he did wrong.

“There are a few reads I’d like to read differently,” he said.

And a couple of high throws he’d like back, including an incompletion for receiver Josh Gordon over the middle.

“He was so open I was trying to really rush it and I rushed into it,” Hoyer said. “I have to be more patient, be more quiet with my feet and just step in and throw it.”

An inevitability of an unsettled situation are questions to teammates about the quarterbacks. Safety Donte Whitner sparked a minor dustup in an answer to Sports Illustrated’s Peter King after the game.

“It’s been fierce,” Whitner said of the competition. “Two guys fighting for their lives. It’s close. I’d say (the locker room) is split about 50-50. We know they both can play.”

Tight end Jordan Cameron was asked about the accuracy of Whitner’s comment.

“Divided might not be the right word,” he said. “That has a negative connotation to me. It’s not a negative thing.

“I don’t worry about what other players really think about the competition. Whoever’s the best player is going to play and that’s all that really matters. Nothing else to say about it.”

Hoyer said he’s not concerned about Whitner’s unscientific poll.

“Because for me, I’m always going out there trying to prove to those guys that I am the guy, so I’ve just got to continue to improve and play better,” he said. “I think you always want to go out and earn your teammates’ respect and I did a little bit of that last year and now I’m just trying to build that back up this year.”

Manziel doesn’t sense a split among teammates.

“I don’t feel any rift like that or anything going on in the locker room,” he said. “I think they see two guys coming out, playing football and competing.”

The opinions of the players don’t matter. Pettine will have the pressure of picking the Week 1 starter, with plenty of input from coordinator Kyle Shanahan and quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains.

“I think it’s important to take their input,” Pettine said. “I’m just not going to make a decision based on what I feel. If it’s unanimous, then that’s easy. But if there’s a tie that has to be broken, I’ll do it.”

Contact Scott Petrak at 329-7253 or spetrak@chroniclet.com. Like him on Facebook and follow him @scottpetrak on Twitter.

http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2014/...arting-offense/

Maybe he'll be ok and learn.

This is my argument on that.
1. I think he is our FRANCHISE QB...make no mistake about that!
2. I am afraid that what he has learned so far and still having a lot more to learn is not at the Reaction Stage...when the pressure comes on he will do what is NATURAL to him...AT THIS STAGE OF HIS CAREER. The entire object of sitting him is to have a different look of WHAT COMES NATURAL TO HIM.
3. I think you run the danger of two things.
a. His development is tainted because he will forever be reverting to OLD HABITS instead of breaking them. Just like a Weeden would look good in practice and then just STARE DOWN 1 WR and hold onto the ball. He would make an effort to get rid of the ball...but as a game wore on he would revert back to his OLD hold the ball bad habit. I know JM is not Weeden but this is the nature of all QBs.

b. The other thing I'm afraid of is that his Natural thing to do is TAKE OFF. In the NFL he will definitely get hurt. It won't be a matter of "IF" but a matter of WHEN. I want running and making something out of nothing just as a last resort. A rookie will not have comfort sitting in the pocket as soon as he sees congestion...he is more apt to run off.

I don't think...I know he would be the better QB if he sat the season or most of.
He's very young.
He played in a 1 read system.
He had 15 somewhat plays to execute.
His speed was over matching college players.
He hasn't seen Disguised defenses and he probably will not the entire preseason.

If what you mean by learn faster - you mean the PLETHORA of mistakes he will make he will learn from them...thats not really fair to us fans or the Browns. Repetition...over n over. Let certain things become NATURAL to him...You know THE RAIN IN SPAIN REMAINS MAINLY ON THE PLAIN...stuff! I think He's got it....you know how they actually say HE GETS IT now.

Brees took his 3rd year to finally get it. All I'm asking for is ONE.

We went to camp today... the potential rain wasn't going to be a deterrent to our two hour drive. We got there about 8:40, and walked right in using our Easy Passes, found great seats mid-point on the practice field (#3? I think) bottom right as you're facing the field from the entrance.

They came out at 10:00, warmed up, stretched, then it started to rain when they started their drills. The DBs worked on wrapping up right in front of us, which was good to see since tackling in the secondary sucked on Saturday.

Beyond that, there is not a lot to report. Both QBs looked like $#!%. I think we saw a sum total of five or six completed passes, maybe a couple more, but most of those were short outs or dump offs to the RBs. Don't think we saw one completed deep ball. They looked a lot better in 7 on 7's than they did in 11 on 11's.

Haden had a nice INT. Skrine had a nice INT.

Cameron made a routine catch, and looks to be alright.

Gilbert was running around on the side lines, seems ok, should be back soon, I would think.

RBs looked OK at times finding the holes, but the D seemed to be working on stuffing them, which they did quite a bit. They were also working on sealing the edge. West is solid, huge legs.

Benji was out there, seems OK, but I'm thinking his spot may go to Hawkins/Gabriel, JMHO.

Ruben & Taylor both look like they're in really good shape.

Desir is tall, hope he can improve over the next year or two.

Ruben & Haden both interacted with kids in the crowd which was good to see.

The camp was spirited, moved quickly, with no time wasted.

While our seats were decent, it was touch to watch on occasion with all the umbrellas and the spastic family in front of us. Overall, though, I didn't feel like we missed much. We did have a good time, it's always fun being there. Sorry I don't have more for you.

2014 Browns training camp snapshot: Day 12

Lineup updates: John Greco and Garrett Gilkey continued to rotate at right guard on the first-team offense. ... Paul McQuistan served as the first-team left tackle while Pro Bowler Joe Thomas received a scheduled day off to rest. ... Jordan Poyer and Jim Leonhard rotated at free safety on the first-team defense while Tashaun Gipson (sprained knee) sat out 11-on-11 drills.

Highs and lows: With orange jerseys at stake, the defense won a competition at the end of practice by keeping the offense out of the end zone on two of three goal-line plays. Quarterback Johnny Manziel started the competition by completing a touchdown pass to receiver Charles Johnson, but quarterback Brian Hoyer went 0-for-2. Tight end Jim Dray dropped a pass in the end zone, and Hoyer’s other throw went out of the back of the end zone after receiver Anthony Armstrong slipped and fell. ... Backup center Jeremiah Warren nearly fired a shotgun snap over Manziel, who jumped to catch the ball. ... Cornerbacks Joe Haden and Buster Skrine each intercepted a pass from Hoyer in team drills.

Injuries: Gipson, tight end Jordan Cameron, wide receiver Travis Benjamin and offensive linemen Alex Parsons and Reid Fragel returned to practice. ... Wide receivers Josh Gordon (abdominal) and Nate Burleson (hamstring), cornerback Justin Gilbert (groin), defensive end Billy Winn (abdomen), fullback MarQueis Gray (abdomen), inside linebacker Darius Eubanks (shoulder), offensive lineman Randall Harris (knee) and outside linebackers Eric Martin (concussion) and Keith Pough (ankle) did not practice. Offensive lineman Nick McDonald (wrist) remains on the non-football injury list. ... Undrafted rookie defensive lineman Calvin Barnett was missing from practice. ... Coach Mike Pettine said offensive lineman Michael Bowie (shoulder) is likely out for the season. “It’s looking that way,” Pettine said. “I don’t think that decision has been made final.” The Browns claimed Bowie off waivers from the Seattle Seahawks on Aug. 3.

Tuesday’s schedule: Practice from 9:30 a.m.-12:10 p.m.

— Nate Ulrich

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/2014-browns-training-camp-snapshot-day-12-1.512707

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Hoyer said the same thing he’s been saying since the spring.

“To me, this is my team until someone tells me otherwise. Come out here and just try to be the best quarterback I can,” he said.

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vs

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“I hope to do whatever the coaches tell me to do,” he said. “I’m continuing to get the reps that I’m given and go through those and make the most out of every opportunity that I have when I’m in there.”

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Hmmm............if Manziel made the first quote and Hoyer the second, I suspect this would be a hot topic and people would be lambasting JM and praising Hoyer. However, since it was the other way around, it's been ignored.

Except by me, of course.

Really, that's pretty much exactly what I'd want my veteran and rookie QB to be saying respectively.

True.

Just pointing out that if it were reversed. what would the reaction be?

Come on, bro..............you should know by now that I just try and get people to think. Is that a bad thing?

Ultimately what difference does that make? They weren't reversed, they both said what everyone probably expects them to say, so what is there to think about? I'm honestly not sure the point of speculating on that.

So, don't speculate. LOL..............I am not forcing you to speculate.

On the other hand, do I have your permission to speculate?

Umm do what you want, you can post and I can respond but I thought it was pointless and doesn't really add anything to any conversation or discussion that is going on about camp or the QB battles.