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Vers said: Quote:
I will say that there are catch words being thrown around like they are factual. Cold-cocked is one of them. She was trying to beat the crap out of him. She was punching him, kicking him, etc. Repeatedly. He finally had enough and decked her. People are acting like he just punched her because they were arguing. That isn't true.
My response.
I am a male 6'2" 245 lbs and have a wife half my size. A couple of times, she has had too much to drink and becomes aggressive (sometimes due to my past transgressions), where she has kicked, punched, and strangled me. What did I do? I moved her to the side and gone to bed. Did she follow me to bed? Yes, and tried to continue to escalate the situation. What did I do? I moved to the guest room. Did she follow me to the guest room? Yes. What did I do? I left the house until she calmed down. Never once did I try to strike her or try to subdue her into unconsciousness.
Vers, you can ride your high horse as much as you want, but we (as men) are not all hard-wired to assault women.
We have two beautiful kids and still have our problems, but I avoid confrontation with my wife because it is the right thing to do. I value our family over my career and would always walk away, regardless of kicks, punches or strikes.
Why??? Because I could knock my wife out with one punch. I know it and she knows it. Does it make me feel like a better man? No. It just accents the fact that I am physically superior to her.
#gmstrong.
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jc
In the long run what is better for Gordon and what is better for the Browns, I don't claim to know. I can see the reasoning behind both sides of the discussion.
Vers is right about Rice. We don't know what happened in that elevator. Perhaps she did come at him with a knife. Why do we keep seeing video of Rice pulling her out of the elevator but they never show video from inside the elevator? And you cannot tell me that doesn't exist. Any reasonably sized casino has security cameras in their elevators.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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I get that, my man. I really do. I have never hit a woman in my life, but two wrongs do not make a right and I only brought up the other part because people are stating things as facts when in truth it is speculation.
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Quote:
I get that, my man. I really do. I have never hit a woman in my life, but two wrongs do not make a right and I only brought up the other part because people are stating things as facts when in truth it is speculation.
Even if the "truth" is in speculation............when does a man decide he has the right to cold . a lady? Where are his bruises, or claw/scratch marks? Where is the evidence of him being beaten?
There aren't any? Oh, that's interesting.
What we do know is they got in an elevator..............and we do know she was drug out of the elevator, unconscious. Do the math. You've already done the math on Gordon - do the math on Rice.
Then, look any respectable person in the eye and say "Eh, she probably asked for it."
2 wrongs don't make a right, you are correct. However, in rice's case you want to ignore the obvious..........perhaps you feel he was right?
And in Gordon's case, you're humping for a year ban to "prove a lesson."
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Hasn't everything already been discussed? What more is there to say until we find out what actually happens?
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Quote:
Hasn't everything already been discussed? What more is there to say until we find out what actually happens?
stay tuned 
Joe Thomas #73
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From the other thread ....... Quote:
Man............are you kidding me? It's a pattern of behavior that tells me he is guilty.
Whoa ..... really?
So no one ever turns their life around, in your world? No one ever changes? Really?
I am glad that I don't live in your world.
You earlier said something along the lines of people not accepting that Gordon had failed 3 tests, or something. Someone else posted an article that stated that Gordon could have made it to stage 2 with a positive test as a rookie, and with the one for codeine, which could have been prescribed for a sore throat, or could have been for something else, but the NFL cut his suspension, so that "doctor" argument was, at least, possible. So, he could have hit stage 3 with one positive test as a rookie, and the positive test for codeine.
It is a concern that he has any pot in his system, as it makes me, personally, wonder just how smart he is still putting himself in position to be anywhere near anyone smoking pot. However, the levels tell me that if he is using pot, it isn't much.
Further, one test should be as valid as any other. There are not as important, obviously, due to escalating penalties, but they should all have to be correct. If one test is shown to have a flaw, then that should be a major concern. In this case, from what we have been told, it appears likely that there is a problem with the test. It doesn't matter how you, or I feel about the test limits, if he should have any pot in his system or not, or anything else ...... just the levels tested at. In this case, if what has been reported is correct, then there is a reasonable doubt as to whether or not he actually tested over the limits allowed. With one test, of one sample being very slightly over the allowable limit, and the other reportedly more under the allowable level, the 2, put together, makes a result under the limit. Because one sample test was over, and one was under, that creates a concern.
If Gordon had tested over the limits, especially by more than he did in the one sample that failed. then I don't think that too many people would be arguing that he made his bed, so he can lie in it. I think that the test limits should be changed for future tests, to reflect the realities of laws in some states, as well as the limits imposed by other sports organizations, and other high importance, safety related jobs. If Gordon had tested over, and not had a second test of that same sample that showed him under the limit, then he should have been suspended. But with the circumstances as they are, If this were a court case, I think he would walk easily. There would certainly be significant enough reasonable doubt to get a case thrown out. While the NFL may not necessarily work that way by rule. given the legal realities that courts do is probably enough to win the case fr Gordon.
Now if Gordon screws up again, he's gone .... and I suspect that it will be more difficult for him to be reinstated. I do suspect that this case, as so very often seems to happen with Browns situations, will result in a rules change after this season going forward. The test levels are antiquated, and so far below anyone else's that it's ridiculous. I don't smoke pot, and I don't necessarily believe that it is good for a person ..... but I think that the current test levels are way too low for any modern organization that operates in states where pot has been decriminalized.
If Gordon's 2 samples had both tested over the limit, then there would be no defense. The second hand smoke thing by his lawyer, or agent, or him, was flat out stupid, because that defense has been rejected before by the NFL. They say that you must control everything that goes into your body. There was no need to even present such a thing, except for the PR aspect. However, the rest of the argument presented by his legal team, as relayed in the press, makes sense.
Just because guy did a thing in the past does not automatically make him guilty of doing so again.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't understand people saying he needs life help that he's so much out of control. I just don't see that. Alittle pot (so what) and slightly over o.8 shouldn't have been driving but haven't we all (or most) after 1 or 2. Anyway I really just don't get all the help he needs the he's so out of control talk. Or is it just me thinking that? I mean does he really need professinal help for smoking weed and having a couple of drinks??
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Quote:
Hasn't everything already been discussed? What more is there to say until we find out what actually happens?
...said the guy who ESPN fired later that day.
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Quote:
Quote:
Hasn't everything already been discussed? What more is there to say until we find out what actually happens?
...said the guy who ESPN fired later that day.
Do I at least get a severance package?
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hasn't everything already been discussed? What more is there to say until we find out what actually happens?
...said the guy who ESPN fired later that day.
Do I at least get a severance package?
Nope ... but you do get a parting dead horse beating gif ..... 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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j/c
Personally, I'm to the point where this whole thing has become annoying. It's overkill and it has stretched WAY beyond the time frame it should have.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Quote:
I don't understand people saying he needs life help that he's so much out of control. I just don't see that. Alittle pot (so what) and slightly over o.8 shouldn't have been driving but haven't we all (or most) after 1 or 2. Anyway I really just don't get all the help he needs the he's so out of control talk. Or is it just me thinking that? I mean does he really need professinal help for smoking weed and having a couple of drinks??
Perception is reality.
Gordon failed another test, and then right when his hearing was supposd to happen, got the DUI...
People perceive that to be a guy who "can't handle" it or whatever...
As opposed to maybe a guy that walked into a room full of people smoking pot, and a guy who was totally fine after a few drinks, but got pulled over cause he was in a car registered to another guy who has legal problems...
I've said all along that I think he just needs new people around him.
If you've passed 70 tests in the span of a few years, you're obviously not a pot head..
Last edited by ThatGuy; 08/05/14 05:00 AM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hasn't everything already been discussed? What more is there to say until we find out what actually happens?
...said the guy who ESPN fired later that day.
Do I at least get a severance package?
Nope ... but you do get a parting dead horse beating gif .....
 
#brownsgoodkarma
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Quote:
j/c
Personally, I'm to the point where this whole thing has become annoying. It's overkill and it has stretched WAY beyond the time frame it should have.
+1 annoying is the word for it. 
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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If I ever hit a woman, ANY woman, my dad would come back from the dead and kick my butt. It's really simple, you don't hit a woman. End of discussion.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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jc.. Since this thread seems to no longer be about a football related topic or even Josh Gordon, can we move it to tailgate? 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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One of the factors ignored in this conversation ... is Gordon caught in the middle of the dispute between the NFL and NFLPA over HGH testing?
While the simple answer is, NO WAY should the two issues be linked, the fact is the NFL could be using Gordon's situation to try to leverage an agreement with the NFLPA for a new drug policy that includes updated limits for drug testing and HGH testing.
One of the factors listed in a recent article...
Yes, marijuana is legal in three states. Yes, it’s a recreational drug. But the league has wanted HGH testing for years. Recently, word broke that a new policy that included HGH testing would include reduced penalties for marijuana. Perhaps Gordon is caught in the middle here as the two sides hammer out these details, because no new agreement on policies and procedures has been reached.
web page
But HGH testing is being held up..since August 2011..over the issue of who will be the final arbiter in particular situations dealing with the testing process or the results.
....the players and NFLPA want a neutral arbitration to decide disputed cases.
....Roger Goodell wants to be the final arbiter in disputed cases.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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This article was published on May 8, 2014...
NFLPA, NFL at odds over HGH testing May 8, 2014 JANE MCMANUS via ESPN NEW YORK -- New NFLPA president Eric Winston said the NFL's plan for HGH testing is on hold because players don't agree with the league's stipulation that commissioner Roger Goodell be the final arbiter in particular disputes around the testing process or the results. "It's there when [Goodell] wants to sign it," Winston said. "I kind of laugh because it keeps coming up. If he wants HGH testing as bad as he wants to retain his power, then we would have had HGH testing last year. At the end of the day, that's what this is all about: He wants to hold all the cards and he wants to be the judge, jury and executioner, and we're not going to go for an un-American system like that." Winston made the comments during a meeting at a midtown hotel Wednesday, the day before the first round of the NFL draft. League spokesman Greg Aiello responded to Winston's remarks Thursday in an email to ESPN. "It is kind of funny because since 2011 the union has come up with one excuse after another to avoid implementing an agreement to test for HGH," Aiello wrote. "First, it was the testing method; then it was the population study; now it's commissioner authority. Our commitment to testing is clear. The same cannot be said of the union." The issue has been a lingering point of contention for both sides since a new collective bargaining agreement was passed in 2011, and it arose again this week when Goodell renewed his call for the union to sign an HGH agreement. "The world has accepted the science," Goodell said in an interview with NFL Network. "There's global understanding of that. And the union needs to sign off on that. It's time to sign off on what we agreed to. They have raised issues. We have addressed all those issues. They're now raising, from time to time, issues that are completely unrelated to HGH testing." It seems that the NFL and the union don't even agree on the reason they are disagreeing. NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith said every term other than arbitration method has been agreed upon. "The process by which we would have HGH testing is agreed to," Smith said. "The population study is agreed to, the manner in which blood would be drawn is agreed to. The number of tests is agreed to. The way in which we determine a violation for taking HGH is agreed to. And it's joint; it's all been agreed to. "The only thing that has not been agreed to is there is neutral arbitration for every aspect of the drug policy except in cases where there is a violation of law or where there is an evidence-based violation of the drug policy that didn't result in a positive test." Smith cited the suspension of the New York Yankees' Alex Rodriguez as an example, noting that baseball used a neutral arbiter in its review process. "We've agreed to everything, except the commissioner wants to be the hearing officer in those final two cases," Smith said. "That's the only thing that's held this up." Winston said it's been the issue he has been asked about most since he assumed the role of NFLPA president in March, and he said that players won't accept another disciplinary procedure in which Goodell wields all the power. "To me, it's a system that doesn't work," Winston said. "It showed in the bounty case, and it showed in the StarCaps case. "[Testing is] not something the players don't want, and when you get into taking blood, there needs to be a neutral arbitrator to deal with all those issues." web page ...the story above broke about the same time news broke that Josh Gordon may have tested positive for marijuana and could be facing a year suspension.
Just a coincidence....?
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
I get that, my man. I really do. I have never hit a woman in my life, but two wrongs do not make a right and I only brought up the other part because people are stating things as facts when in truth it is speculation.
I'm confused. You bring up the allegation of being coldcocked and state that is speculation because it happened in the elevator and we don't really know what happened in the elevator.. yet you state as fact that she was punching him and kicking him and beating the crap out of him.... is that a fact or is that also speculation?
yebat' Putin
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Good point.
Too bad you didn't get the point about Rice's innocence or guilt doesn't make Gordon innocent of his violations.
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Quote:
One of the factors ignored in this conversation ... is Gordon caught in the middle of the dispute between the NFL and NFLPA over HGH testing?
While the simple answer is, NO WAY should the two issues be linked, the fact is the NFL could be using Gordon's situation to try to leverage an agreement with the NFLPA for a new drug policy that includes updated limits for drug testing and HGH testing.
One of the factors listed in a recent article...
Yes, marijuana is legal in three states. Yes, it’s a recreational drug. But the league has wanted HGH testing for years. Recently, word broke that a new policy that included HGH testing would include reduced penalties for marijuana. Perhaps Gordon is caught in the middle here as the two sides hammer out these details, because no new agreement on policies and procedures has been reached.
web page
But HGH testing is being held up..since August 2011..over the issue of who will be the final arbiter in particular situations dealing with the testing process or the results.
....the players and NFLPA want a neutral arbitration to decide disputed cases.
....Roger Goodell wants to be the final arbiter in disputed cases.
Yeah I agree mac, I definitely think they are making this a bargaining chip.
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My wife and I have enough respect for each other to never strike one another like little children who can't solve their issues with words. If someone decides to strike their spouse, regardless of gender, there are some serious other issues there.
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j/c
If I am Gordon's lawyer, I threaten the NFL with a law suit based on test B negating test A with a jury. Then I negotiate a suspension settlement to 6 games or under. I am sure he can bring in a ton of experts to prove the test failure rate. Maybe this is why it is drawn out?
GO BROWNS!
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Quote:
Good point.
Too bad you didn't get the point about Rice's innocence or guilt doesn't make Gordon innocent of his violations.
I'm pretty certain that Rice and Gordon are both guilty of something.. the discussion is (or should be) about the equity of their respective punishments.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
j/c
Personally, I'm to the point where this whole thing has become annoying. It's overkill and it has stretched WAY beyond the time frame it should have.
I agree a zillion percent.
I'll be really mad if they kick him out for the full year after all this. You know?
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Didn't go back to the old thread. It was announced today (heard on NFL Network if that counts) Results from the Arbitrator will be in anywhere between 1-4 weeks  We might not know until the season is ready to start...Until then he practices with the team.
jmho but a disservice to the Browns ability to prepare themselves for the season I think.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Delay it as long as they want. I hope his lawyers are ready to file a lawsuit in Ohio court that would put the suspension on hold (because Ohio drug testing law differs from the NFLs - if that's true).
I hope we see a Williams brother situation (well, if Josh is suspended and not cleared 100%). Meaning, he's suspended but won't serve anything for 2+ years, but by they, the NFL will reduce to almost nothing.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Quote:
jmho but a disservice to the Browns ability to prepare themselves for the season I think.
I agree. This should have been scheduled for much earlier in the off-season. If they suspend him at the start of the season, that means that he would miss. automatically, the whole off-season next year as well.
That is another reason why I feel like a reduced, or eliminated suspension is coming.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Or the NFL wants to wait until the last possible second so his canceled or reduced suspension announcement will get no attention because the start of the season excitement/noise. 
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I thought they would have wanted this to go away. Don't know how to take the extended long time to make a ruling. Obviously if it was open and shut the ruling would have been out by now.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
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Looks like the NFL powers to be want to see how Johnny Football and Josh Gordon work together before making a decision that could loose revenue. 
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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pretty sure season starts and ends in March...he misses the games I think he can apply to reinstate for March when the 2015 season starts.
jmhguess
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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Quote:
Looks like the NFL powers to be want to see how Johnny Football and Josh Gordon work together before making a decision that could loose revenue.
LOL Funny, I said something similar and was pretty much told I was nuts..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Quote:
...the story above broke about the same time news broke that Josh Gordon may have tested positive for marijuana and could be facing a year suspension.
Just a coincidence....?
Not a chance.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Or the NFL wants to wait until the last possible second so his canceled or reduced suspension announcement will get no attention because the start of the season excitement/noise.
Like I said before, if I was representing Gordon my trump card would be HIPAA, maybe a deal is in the works?
Drug Testing: What are the rules surrounding confidentiality and sharing of drug test results?
Generally, drug test results, like all medical information about employees, should be kept confidential. Drug test results should be filed in a confidential medical file separate from the general employee file.
The department that receives drug test results should share results only on a need-to-know basis. For example, sharing drug-test results with front-line managers is often unnecessary beyond stating whether the results are pass or fail.
State drug testing laws or privacy laws may apply to drug test results either specifically or generally as a matter of personal privacy. Also, the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) may apply to drug test results depending on the facts involved. Employers should work with their attorneys to analyze relevance of these laws to drug test results.
Drug test results may also be critical in determining eligibility for state- and employer-sponsored benefits. Many laws recognize these situations. The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) regulations on testing procedures permit the release of drug test results for investigatory proceedings and other matters of necessity as described under 49 C.F.R. §40.323. See also, U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) resources at Drug-Free Workplace Policy Builder, Section 7: Drug Testing.
Examples of matters necessitating disclosure of test results include unemployment eligibility determination, workers’ compensation claims and disability benefits. Depending on the applicable laws, consented release may not even be required. However, a conservative approach, due to the various laws that may apply, would be to obtain written consent for release from the applicant or employee when possible. When not possible, employers should consult with an attorney before releasing information without signed authorization.
- See more at: http://www.shrm.org/templatestools/hrqa/...h.OEJAfKua.dpuf
GO BROWNS!
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,978 Likes: 116
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,978 Likes: 116 |
Quote:
Quote:
Looks like the NFL powers to be want to see how Johnny Football and Josh Gordon work together before making a decision that could loose revenue.
LOL Funny, I said something similar and was pretty much told I was nuts..
Then call me nuts also. If anyone for an instance thinks the final decision on Josh Gordon won't be based at all on revenue and getting JF on NFL prime time ASAP, they are the nuts here.
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,978 Likes: 116
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,978 Likes: 116 |
If Josh or his lawyers leaked any info into the public domain, a HIPPA law suit won't fly.
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 164 Likes: 1
Practice Squad
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Practice Squad
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 164 Likes: 1 |
I was thinking the same thing, the leak of that information would have to be uncovered if that was to be any sort of viable lawsuit. If it was the NFL that leaked, watch out lol
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum More Josh Gordon, I guess
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