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tab..........I disagree w/that party about JM had Agnew open in the flat. Yes, Agnew was open and Wilcotts pointed that out, but what he failed to notice that there was a defender in Manziel's face just as Agnew broke open. Thus, I think JM made the right choice.
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Its the read option. The QB reads the defensive end and the DE went inside, the read is now for the QB to take it outside. Its the way the play is designed to work. If the DE goes outside then it would have been the run up the middle. It has nothing to do with whether or not the tackle actually blocks the guy or not.
The blocker blew the play because he did not burry the de when he went inside, he let him come back around and disrupt the QBs run which cost the first down.
Not throwing it to the FB again, no problem with this decision. It was a 4th down and its the FB. he picked up the first with his feet and didnt get hit.
Hoyer sailed a couple over the middle and if you are gonna throw high, you dont do it over the middle as those passes tend to go the other direction rather quickly. They also probably handed Manziel a slight edge after the the game tape is graded out.
hoyer is a slow starter and gets better as the games wear on. Its harder for him to show what he can do with a limited number of reps.
Rookie in his very first NFL game exposure at worst played even with the 6 year veteran behind an absolutely horrible effort by his offensive line.
Last edited by Mourgrym; 08/11/14 09:54 AM.
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If I were Hoyer, I'd be frustrated how this media frenzy has taken over the Bowns camp. It makes me like him even more how professional he's been in the face of it.
I want the Browns to win and the best QB to get that done gets my vote. But I think there are a lot of players out there who would see this Manziel thing as a runaway train that you just can't stop. That's ton of pressure and would be enough to completely derail a lot of guys. Hoyer keeps coming. That's a pro.
I thought they played about even. Hoyer seems to have the team more crisp, Manziel brings an excitement even if he stays in the pocket. You just don't know. But I'd give the night to Hoyer.
The media and a lot of fans are different. I don'y know how you can watch that game objectively and say that Manziel outplayed Hoyer. But it's all over the place that he did.
Hoyer has to be 5 times better than Manziel for people to think he's just as good.
This is why we need a +1 button, . Manziel did not outplay Hoyer... Before the game I believe it was willie mcginest that said every bad play Hoyer made would be scrutinized while Manziel would be able to do no wrong in the eyes of the media.. I am not a Manziel hater but I am sick of all the slobbering going on of Manziel... He may end up being a future Hall of Famer but I can't see how Hoyer doesn't start the season opener. I think people are afraid Hoyer will win and JM may never get off the bench....
The one thing that drives me the most crazy is how not one single media person could care less that Jacksonville has stated that Blake Bortles will sit the first year but when it comes to Manziel you get "How can Cleveland say Manziel might sit the first year, when you draft a QB in the first round you gotta start him" .. Double standard!
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This is why we need a +1 button, . Manziel did not outplay Hoyer... Before the game I believe it was willie mcginest that said every bad play Hoyer made would be scrutinized while Manziel would be able to do no wrong in the eyes of the media.. I am not a Manziel hater but I am sick of all the slobbering going on of Manziel... He may end up being a future Hall of Famer but I can't see how Hoyer doesn't start the season opener. I think people are afraid Hoyer will win and JM may never get off the bench....
The one thing that drives me the most crazy is how not one single media person could care less that Jacksonville has stated that Blake Bortles will sit the first year but when it comes to Manziel you get "How can Cleveland say Manziel might sit the first year, when you draft a QB in the first round you gotta start him" .. Double standard!
Totally. I thought Bortles looked better than Manziel in his game and no one cared.
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This is why we need a +1 button, . Manziel did not outplay Hoyer... Before the game I believe it was willie mcginest that said every bad play Hoyer made would be scrutinized while Manziel would be able to do no wrong in the eyes of the media.. I am not a Manziel hater but I am sick of all the slobbering going on of Manziel... He may end up being a future Hall of Famer but I can't see how Hoyer doesn't start the season opener. I think people are afraid Hoyer will win and JM may never get off the bench....
The one thing that drives me the most crazy is how not one single media person could care less that Jacksonville has stated that Blake Bortles will sit the first year but when it comes to Manziel you get "How can Cleveland say Manziel might sit the first year, when you draft a QB in the first round you gotta start him" .. Double standard!
Totally. I thought Bortles looked better than Manziel in his game and no one cared.
The fact we are having this debate between a 6 year vet and a rookie from the spread after 2 weeks of camp says it all. The fact the entire team was up watching Johny play against the 2nd team says that he is winning over his team. I know you guys dont like Johny but the kid can play and he had 1 bad throw when his offensive line was blown up over and over and over.
Hoyer isnt doing anything to lose the job but Johny is taking it from him. The big arm, the mobility, the leadership and just the energy he brings to the table is the difference. I know many dont want to see why there is such a buzz with this kid but the team sees it and the coaches see it too.
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This is why we need a +1 button, . Manziel did not outplay Hoyer... Before the game I believe it was willie mcginest that said every bad play Hoyer made would be scrutinized while Manziel would be able to do no wrong in the eyes of the media.. I am not a Manziel hater but I am sick of all the slobbering going on of Manziel... He may end up being a future Hall of Famer but I can't see how Hoyer doesn't start the season opener. I think people are afraid Hoyer will win and JM may never get off the bench....
The one thing that drives me the most crazy is how not one single media person could care less that Jacksonville has stated that Blake Bortles will sit the first year but when it comes to Manziel you get "How can Cleveland say Manziel might sit the first year, when you draft a QB in the first round you gotta start him" .. Double standard!
Totally. I thought Bortles looked better than Manziel in his game and no one cared.
The fact we are having this debate between a 6 year vet and a rookie from the spread after 2 weeks of camp says it all. The fact the entire team was up watching Johny play against the 2nd team says that he is winning over his team. I know you guys dont like Johny but the kid can play and he had 1 bad throw when his offensive line was blown up over and over and over.
Hoyer isnt doing anything to lose the job but Johny is taking it from him. The big arm, the mobility, the leadership and just the energy he brings to the table is the difference. I know many dont want to see why there is such a buzz with this kid but the team sees it and the coaches see it too.
the reason we're having the debate is because it's JM, the media Love for Manziel is why there is a debate. That and also because this is the Browns and it wouldn't be Football in Cleveland if there wasn't a QB controversy!
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I don't think there is any hatred for Manziel. I don't hate him.. I hope he's the long term answer. Just not sure he's ready to be the long term answer starting today,.
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As I previously stated. . Why does the Media care and try to use the first round pick argument when saying JM should start but couldn't care less about Bortles, who I think will will end up being a better QB
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The media has shredded manziel and every former football player has ripped the kid and all he did was go out and prove them wrong. Jamie Dukes has gone from he cant do this in the league to start him. Heath Evans and Willie were eating their words on the kid as was Shaun Ohara.
We have gone from Hoyer is doing calculus and Manziel is strugglign wtih basic math to they are even, there is no front runner. Stop sipping the hatoraide and get on board the Manziel money train lol
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Quote:
tab..........I disagree w/that party about JM had Agnew open in the flat. Yes, Agnew was open and Wilcotts pointed that out, but what he failed to notice that there was a defender in Manziel's face just as Agnew broke open. Thus, I think JM made the right choice.
I haven't looked again, but I thought that Agnew was open before Manziel had a defender in his face.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Frankly I dont really give a damn about Bortles either to be honest lol.
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Agnew was definitely open. I still don't mind take the first down by running though. As someone else stated, this was not Josh Gordon or Jordan Cameron out there, it was a backup fullback. Taking the risk out of a play like that is the best thing to do when you are trying to move the chains. Fullbacks aren't known for the incredible hands (i.e. Owen Marecic and Lawrence Vickers).
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The media has shredded manziel and every former football player has ripped the kid and all he did was go out and prove them wrong. Jamie Dukes has gone from he cant do this in the league to start him. Heath Evans and Willie were eating their words on the kid as was Shaun Ohara.
We have gone from Hoyer is doing calculus and Manziel is strugglign wtih basic math to they are even, there is no front runner. Stop sipping the hatoraide and get on board the Manziel money train lol
Guess they aired a different post game show of the NFL network in your area because I watched it and there was no eating of words as you put it. . Say said in their eyes he was still #2 and I might be sipping but you're SLURPING!
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J/C ....
I thought that Hoyer played a really nice game. He made solid reads, and with the exception of 3 passes, made good throws. I don't remember a bad decision among the bunch.
However, and this goes for both QBs, the defenses were fairly generic, blitzing was limited, and the reads were simple. It is a situation that plays to the strengths of both QBs, to an extent.
Hoyer had the advantage of playing with the 1st string offense. Manziel played with the 2nd teamers, and it almost seems like the coaches told the line to leak just enough to force Manziel to speed up his decision making. I think that he did that. However, he still has a way to go. He is ex=specially going to have to learn the concept of a hot read. However, I thought that he processed things pretty quickly for a guy who has never played in anything approaching the complexity of the WCO. Face it, he probably made calls in college that make Peyton Manning's "Omaha" look complex. He is not only learning a completely new type of offense, with completely new skills, but also a completely new language. He seems to be well ahead of where Weeden was 10 practices and one preseason game into his rookie year.
I think that Manziel understands the offense, and understand what is going on around him. I think that he knows where people should be, and what his reads are. However, he is also still processing information maybe a half step slow when all of the pieces are in motion. Now it is possible that some of that is because he is playing against backups .... so it will be interesting to see how he does playing with the ones, against a 1st team defense.
It is my feeling that if Manziel knows the offense, and is anywhere close to Hoyer in terms of being able to handle the position, then Manziel should start. he will, almost cetainly. improve with practice and playing time. I don't know how much he gets sitting on the bench watching. I think that he needs his eyes on the field, seeing a real defense, and playing with new skills that he has not used before. (like playng from under Center)
I truly do respect Hoyer, and think that he did things last year that no one expected of him. However, I do think that he also was able to be sprung on defenses that had no idea what his strengths and weaknesses were. I like the way that Hoyer took control of the offense, and ran the team at the LOS. I like the way he read the defense and understood the moving parts. I look at what he did, however, and his advantages over Manziel at this point are experience and knowledge based. I do think that Manziel has a plus level arm, especially compared to Hoyer. Hoyer does not have good downfield passing skills. He is fine with the shorter passes, but try to throw a pass 30 yards in the air, and it's a lost cause. Hoyer has a lot going for him, and a lot of factors that hold him back. It is hard to know for sure what he can do, because we only have a very limited sample size. However, if Hoyer's advantages are experienced based, then it makes sense to start Manziel, and allow him to gain the experience that Hoyer has.
At this point, I am going for Manziel. I really liked a lot of what Hoyer did, both last year and in the Lions preseason game. but he also showed the things that restrict his upside. I think that Manziel is close enough that he should be allowed to develop under fire.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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j/c Seems like so much Manziel hatred. Like people want him to fail. I actually welcome this change from the blind optimism that was surrounding Frye, Quinn and Weeden. Those guys were horrible, but only a few of us had the objective perspective to call it out right away. Manziel looks (if he can learn to slide  ) like he is going to be a player in this league. A rookie, who supposedly partying his butt of and didn't know the playbook...he looked ok, not great, but clearly more talented than that stiff we had back there last season.
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Its the read option. The QB reads the defensive end and the DE went inside,
Yeah I never heard of this so called read option...lol J/K... He read the college read option - its different from the NFL...point blank we had the inside run.
Also I didn't like the fact they seemed to run two different O's with the QBs. I actually thought JM's first snap under center was the best QB play he had all night...can't remember the specifics...all I remember was wow he looked really good under center why doesn't he do it all the instead of his COLLEGE LOOK.
Vers...one thing I like about JM...he can get the ball off to any where -- jump, side arm - there is no Flipper moment with JM. My point is I don't want to see him run when he can have the FB run. I like something out of nothing...I don't want to see him run when there is something.
Honestly why I fear him starting now! I he will not last and I don't wish to see an RG3 moment out there his rookie season. I thought he looked good in the pocket I like him under center he gets back in time and he does a great play action!
jmho
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The media has shredded manziel and every former football player has ripped the kid and all he did was go out and prove them wrong.
The vast majority of "shredding" him revolved around things off the field, like, you know, having a picture of him surface showing him with a rolled up dollar bill in a bathroom stall.
Nothing wrong with that. 
I don't see any hate for his skills, only legitimate questions regarding the backyard football he plays and his size. The off the field stuff? He brought that on himself.
I was a Bridgewater guy first with Manziel a close second, with the big concerns being his character off the field. Getting caught with that rolled up dollar bill was a rude awakening about his partying lifestyle, as was hanging around that .-douchebag Beiber.  Any time you're an NFL QB and you can't quite hit the 6' mark you're going to face legit questions.
Now Manziel showed the skills that made him a 1st round pick, but he also showed he's got a ton to learn about the NFL game, as he was a one-read-tuck-and-run guy, and relied too much on his legs. Again, that's not "shredding" the guy, but an expected symptom due to him being a rookie from a backyard offense.
Methinks you're going way overboard while waiving the JFF flag.
Hey, it could be worse. It could be Tebow we're talking about. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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tab..........I disagree w/that party about JM had Agnew open in the flat. Yes, Agnew was open and Wilcotts pointed that out, but what he failed to notice that there was a defender in Manziel's face just as Agnew broke open. Thus, I think JM made the right choice.
I haven't looked again, but I thought that Agnew was open before Manziel had a defender in his face.
I watched it multiple times and imho Vers is right on this one... defender was right in Manziel's face as Agnew got open (hard to see in the playback which is why I think people are missing it). Manziel made the right choice.
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Quote:
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tab..........I disagree w/that party about JM had Agnew open in the flat. Yes, Agnew was open and Wilcotts pointed that out, but what he failed to notice that there was a defender in Manziel's face just as Agnew broke open. Thus, I think JM made the right choice.
I haven't looked again, but I thought that Agnew was open before Manziel had a defender in his face.
I watched it multiple times and imho Vers is right on this one... defender was right in Manziel's face as Agnew got open (hard to see in the playback which is why I think people are missing it). Manziel made the right choice.
Cool. Thanks for checking, Saves me from having to search for one particular play. (which is always a pain)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I watched it multiple times and imho Vers is right on this one... defender was right in Manziel's face as Agnew got open (hard to see in the playback which is why I think people are missing it). Manziel made the right choice.
Agreed. The purpose of the play was to get the first. Always safer to run for it than throw for it, especially to a fullback. He got it untouched. Good play.
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I've always been a big fan of the Shannahan bootlegs. When we had guys like Frye and McCoy, it would drive me insane that we wouldn't implement AT LEAST a bootleg on the goal line. Get them on the move.....we had mobile guys dropping back like they were Tom Brady, made no sense.
I am very glad to see it.
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As I previously stated. . Why does the Media care and try to use the first round pick argument when saying JM should start but couldn't care less about Bortles, who I think will will end up being a better QB
That's BS.... Henne is still named the starter for the Jags yet the media only cares to discuss Bortles game play, and they are now saying Bortles is better than Henne. (WOW big surprise!!!!...better than Henne? LOL) So now Bortles should be named their starter. It happens everywhere so get over it. The best QB will start and play for their respective team.
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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All Pro
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tab..........I disagree w/that party about JM had Agnew open in the flat. Yes, Agnew was open and Wilcotts pointed that out, but what he failed to notice that there was a defender in Manziel's face just as Agnew broke open. Thus, I think JM made the right choice.
I think it's 50/50. Manziel knows he can get the first down, done it many times, but i thought about Woody Hayes "three things happen when you pass and 2 are bad" saying. What if Agnew (a great reciever? Maybe not.) dropped it? Everybody would be saying "he should have run! He was wide open!"
Having said that, Manziel's strategy cant be to run every time. He has to Pass sometimes, Run sometimes, and it's gotta at least appear unpredictable or the NFL will eat him alive.
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The concerns about Manziel were legit.
The NFL has been very rude to quarterbacks who venture past the line of scrimmage with ball in hand.
Outside of Russel Wilson no sub six footers have made it. Brees is six foot even. He has made his living in the pocket. Being smart and being accurate.
Manziel has to learn for himself how to survive in the NFL. He is getting coached on how to play. He has to improve while he is learning.
Time will tell if he makes the adjustments and figures things out.
The one thing that can not be taken from him is his instincts on the field. He has a great feel for the game.
His physical and mental abilities will be tested. I hope he succeeds.
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j/c
Seems like so much Manziel hatred. Like people want him to fail.
I actually welcome this change from the blind optimism that was surrounding Frye, Quinn and Weeden. Those guys were horrible, but only a few of us had the objective perspective to call it out right away.
As do I. IMO the only QB with NFL franchise talent we ever had was cut loose after his only season, then he turned around and helped take two separate NFL teams to the playoffs in consecutive seasons. He got little respect here, and he wasn't well liked around here either.
The hope of failure is actually a hope that the hate filled poster is right about their prejudices of the player in question, so as to validated themselves as "The all knowing Karsac or Profit of the NFL fandom in Cleveland" and now will have free reign and all bragging rights here. 
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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OK, I just watched the play again...... on the ESPN website, and he did have Agnew wide open at first. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/113359...ch-mike-pettineAt the 1:01 mark, Agnew clears and there isn't a defender within 5 yards of him. Manziel did have a defender chasing him, but at the 1 minute mark, Manziel had room to make his throw to Agnew, and Agnew was wide open. I do hope that Manziel learns to look at those kind of pays closely, and to make a different decision there. I'm not going to bury the kid, but I do think that he needs to make that throw, instead of running, in that situation.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yeah people can say what they want but vers WATCHING football - what he see usually is what you get! My reaction was NO DON'T RUN...cause I don't want the kid hurt. IN the NFL....Once in a while fine that is what will make him special - with the first OL he should have a reliable pocket. I want him in there till it starts to break down...then I don't mind him taking off and doing his thing. Usually by then the DBs all got their backs turned and down field. What I do not want is for him to drop back and quickly see all his WR college covered (but have NFL windows) and he takes off running before 3 seconds. He simple will not survive.
He never had a 330 lb guy surprising him downfield 30 yards -like Ngata- and hitting him running full speed. These rookies have to learn...now West is in a rotational position but he has to learn to not STOP college he would be gone - NFL just gives 3 other guys a split second to come and get him.
I want JM to be in the pocket...do his progressions make somebody miss still look downfield and the last second take off for the sidelines or a nice 15 scamper and a safe slide!
And him playing with the 2nd OL unit didn't help cause the pocket was not consistent.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Practice Squad
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Practice Squad
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 164 Likes: 1 |
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Hey, it could be worse. It could be Tebow we're talking about.
I am so ever thankful we are not and never had to talk about him in a Browns uni 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
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OK, I just watched the play again...... on the ESPN website, and he did have Agnew wide open at first.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/113359...ch-mike-pettine
At the 1:01 mark, Agnew clears and there isn't a defender within 5 yards of him. Manziel did have a defender chasing him, but at the 1 minute mark, Manziel had room to make his throw to Agnew, and Agnew was wide open.
I do hope that Manziel learns to look at those kind of pays closely, and to make a different decision there.
I'm not going to bury the kid, but I do think that he needs to make that throw, instead of running, in that situation.
I agree with all of that but with that said, his instinct is to run so it won't surprise me early on if its close, he will default to running for the first down.. At least he got out of bounds.
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,959 Likes: 115
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,959 Likes: 115 |
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OK, I just watched the play again...... on the ESPN website, and he did have Agnew wide open at first.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/113359...ch-mike-pettine
At the 1:01 mark, Agnew clears and there isn't a defender within 5 yards of him. Manziel did have a defender chasing him, but at the 1 minute mark, Manziel had room to make his throw to Agnew, and Agnew was wide open.
I do hope that Manziel learns to look at those kind of pays closely, and to make a different decision there.
I'm not going to bury the kid, but I do think that he needs to make that throw, instead of running, in that situation.
Agnew missed a crucial block IMO. In that situation it's up to Agnew to pick up any unblock pass rushers, then release. Agnew didn't do his job and this forced Manziel to roll out early and avoid the unblocked pass rusher, which he did, while Agnew ran out in the flat open for a second or two. And all while Manziel was avoiding what Agnew let by him. Manziel still made the play. First down, move the chains. Good play. A simple missed block by Agnew. A great move by Manziel to avoid a sack and get a first down.
JMHO
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,990 Likes: 362
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,990 Likes: 362 |
Quote:
Quote:
OK, I just watched the play again...... on the ESPN website, and he did have Agnew wide open at first.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/113359...ch-mike-pettine
At the 1:01 mark, Agnew clears and there isn't a defender within 5 yards of him. Manziel did have a defender chasing him, but at the 1 minute mark, Manziel had room to make his throw to Agnew, and Agnew was wide open.
I do hope that Manziel learns to look at those kind of pays closely, and to make a different decision there.
I'm not going to bury the kid, but I do think that he needs to make that throw, instead of running, in that situation.
Agnew missed a crucial block IMO. In that situation it's up to Agnew to pick up any unblock pass rushers, then release. Agnew didn't do his job and this forced Manziel to roll out early and avoid the unblocked pass rusher, which he did, while Agnew ran out in the flat open for a second or two. And all while Manziel was avoiding what Agnew let by him. Manziel still made the play. First down, move the chains. Good play. A simple missed block by Agnew. A great move by Manziel to avoid a sack and get a first down.
JMHO
Maybe, or maybe he was supposed to get into that area vacated by the blitzer so that Manziel could get him the ball. Agnew didn't even try to block, so that tells me that maybe his job was just to settle down into that area where he could catch the ball for a 1st down. There are many plays where the blockers let the defenders through inside so they wind up trapping themselves. Again, Manziel had a defender a full 4 yards away from him, and Agnew was open by at least 5 yards at one point in that play. I don't want to beat the kid up over the play, but I think that he'll see that on tape and see that he could have made a smarter, and safer (for him) play there. It was just one play though ..... and in preseason .... so it's not the end all- be all ..... but I do think that it is a coaching opportunity.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,959 Likes: 115
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,959 Likes: 115 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
OK, I just watched the play again...... on the ESPN website, and he did have Agnew wide open at first.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/113359...ch-mike-pettine
At the 1:01 mark, Agnew clears and there isn't a defender within 5 yards of him. Manziel did have a defender chasing him, but at the 1 minute mark, Manziel had room to make his throw to Agnew, and Agnew was wide open.
I do hope that Manziel learns to look at those kind of pays closely, and to make a different decision there.
I'm not going to bury the kid, but I do think that he needs to make that throw, instead of running, in that situation.
Agnew missed a crucial block IMO. In that situation it's up to Agnew to pick up any unblock pass rushers, then release. Agnew didn't do his job and this forced Manziel to roll out early and avoid the unblocked pass rusher, which he did, while Agnew ran out in the flat open for a second or two. And all while Manziel was avoiding what Agnew let by him. Manziel still made the play. First down, move the chains. Good play. A simple missed block by Agnew. A great move by Manziel to avoid a sack and get a first down.
JMHO
Maybe, or maybe he was supposed to get into that area vacated by the blitzer so that Manziel could get him the ball. Agnew didn't even try to block, so that tells me that maybe his job was just to settle down into that area where he could catch the ball for a 1st down. There are many plays where the blockers let the defenders through inside so they wind up trapping themselves. Again, Manziel had a defender a full 4 yards away from him, and Agnew was open by at least 5 yards at one point in that play. I don't want to beat the kid up over the play, but I think that he'll see that on tape and see that he could have made a smarter, and safer (for him) play there. It was just one play though ..... and in preseason .... so it's not the end all- be all ..... but I do think that it is a coaching opportunity.
It wasn't a blitz. It was a delayed rush by design. The defender waited until Agnew went by. In that situation someone has to stay home to pick up the delayed rush. And yes it's common to let the pass rush through, but not on a delay rush like we had here. There was no one else back there to protect the QB, and this wasn't a naked bootleg called by the Brown's. So that tells me someone missed their blocking assignment. Agnew is my #1 guess.
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,152 Likes: 134
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,152 Likes: 134 |
Just clicking
I just watched a video of all JM's plays on NFL.com. When you see them like that, it's a little out of context but you'd have to be blind not to see the kid is or at least will be something special.
I sure hope the coaching staff, GM and the ownership allow him the time to grow into the roll rather than throwing him in to the fray due to pressure from fans and media.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Posts: 8,528 Likes: 6
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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Yeah I never heard of this so called read option...lol J/K... He read the college read option - its different from the NFL...point blank we had the inside run.
Explain to me the difference. As I know the concept to be you read the defensive end and if he goes inside the block it becomes basically a off tackle run by the QB. If the DE goes outside, It becomes an inside run by the running back. What is the difference in the NFL version?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 70,654 Likes: 510
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 70,654 Likes: 510 |
Not sure about the difference, because I believe the QB reads the same person in either case? Unless the WR blocking assignments would be different ... I know some college teams use a triple option off of it?
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,846 Likes: 108 |
JM has work to do if there is to be later success. Forced some short routes against two's. Also stares his guy down. It will improve, but be realistic here.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
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Not sure about the difference, because I believe the QB reads the same person in either case? Unless the WR blocking assignments would be different ... I know some college teams use a triple option off of it?
Hey that's me! I have nothing factual to add to this conversation. I love watching JFF play the game. Can't wait for Monday!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
Explain to me the difference.
NFL Speed...This is not the Wildcat...this is the Pistol, all I know is he had no chance and the RB going straight ahead had a pretty big hole - I'm not going to go back and watch, just too busy. My hours for me time just aren't there.
I'd have to disect that play and see why it didn't work...I don't think both those players were Spying Manziel. For some reason I think a blocker got on that DE coming in so he wasn't Unabated make a decision going in or out.
Going on memory and it was late at night - sorry not that important to Prove...if you insist it was the correct decision...ok. All I will say on that, He better not run that play any more. Cause it was dead to water. I still say the RB would have gotten yardage forward that did stuck in my head...not the read just the play and when he pulled the ball out - I'm like Noooo you had the yardage. My thought was not judging on the right READ or not.
My mention about College vs. NFL if that is the 101 read - then in the NFL there better be a 2.0 read cause that won't cut it.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 70,654 Likes: 510
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 70,654 Likes: 510 |
Quote:
Quote:
Not sure about the difference, because I believe the QB reads the same person in either case? Unless the WR blocking assignments would be different ... I know some college teams use a triple option off of it?
Hey that's me! I have nothing factual to add to this conversation. I love watching JFF play the game. Can't wait for Monday!
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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