DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What is the contingency plan at quarterback beyond these next two games?

I don't see Manziel going anywhere unless its a Richardson type deal, which probably won't happen, as Richardson was a plug and play not very well RB for a team in need.

I see the Browns trying to secure someone in FA as insurance until he develops. I am intrigued by the idea of Bradford, but so will be others. I think Sanchez would be out of reach.

Who is left, everyone on the list?

QB Ryan Lindley ARI 26 R
QB T.J. Yates ATL 28
QB Tyrod Taylor BAL 26
QB Joe Webb CAR 29
QB Jimmy Clausen CHI 28
QB Jason Campbell CIN 34
QB Brian Hoyer CLE 30
QB Kellen Moore DET 26 R
QB Dan Orlovsky DET 32
QB Matt Flynn GB 30
QB Scott Tolzien GB 28
QB Matt Moore MIA 31
QB Christian Ponder MIN 27
QB Ryan Mallett NE 27
QB Luke McCown NO 34
QB Michael Vick NYJ 35
QB Mark Sanchez PHI 29
QB Matt Hasselbeck SEA 40
QB Tarvaris Jackson SEA 32
QB Terrelle Pryor SEA 26
QB Blaine Gabbert SF 26
QB Josh Johnson SF 29
QB Austin Davis STL 26 R
QB Shaun Hill STL 35
QB Jake Locker TEN 27
QB Colt McCoy WAS 29

If Manziel shows promise in the last 2 games then we roll with him next season. If he stinks it up against Carolina and Baltimore. Then the Browns need to trade both #1 draft picks to get up in the draft for Jamies Winston.

This team has to find a franchise QB if they will ever seriously contend for the playoffs/Super Bowl.

As much as we've said over the years "We would of won with good QB play"

We are LITERALLY a GOOD QB away from being an actual contender.. Regardless of what people want to say about the "holes" on our roster..

Weather it's Manziel, someone else, I don't really care..

Just find the best guy we can for next season..

Hello Dawgtalkers. I used to post on the old Browns board, but when it got shut down I decided not to register here as it seemed all of the most opinionated from the “old” Browns board were already on here. I figured you didn't need my opinion. However, a few weeks ago I learned I had cancer and I don't know how long I have. I have been a Brown’s fan for 40 years and just because I might not be here for the 2015 season doesn't mean I am any less passionate about the Browns. So as a form of therapy I have registered and you all will have to listen to my opinions, at least for a while.

So about the QB situation. Some of you are saying resign Hoyer. Sadly, I don't think that is a realistic option. He is on record as wanting a chance to start and starters money in his next contract. He won't get either from the Browns. I doubt he will get either from any NFL team. That said there are a number of places he could go and get the same chance to start as he would have in Cleveland, Houston and St. Louis come to mind. So why stay in Cleveland, particularly when he seems to feel the fan base and organization have abandoned him. So I believe it is 90% he walks. And I’m not critical of the Browns. I think it would also be a wise decision for the team. To be honest, BH is a good backup QB but he is not the long term answer as a starter and will likely never lead a team to the playoffs.

So that leaves JM is the starter next year. I wish I could say that with enthusiasm. Unfortunately, what I saw last Sunday wasn't just a poor performance by a rookie, but a guy who had no business on an NFL field. Nothing about his game, from footwork, to accuracy to leadership belonged in the NFL. I was appalled that the coaches, who have had nearly a season to evaluate him would have put him on the field. If they are that bad at evaluating talent they all needed to be fired. In retrospect, however, I have come to the conclusion that the JM they saw on the field was not what they expected either. When the whistle blew and the pressure came JM reverted to the sand lot QB he was in HS and college. It won't work in the NFL. I know many of you are saying it is his first game and he will get better. How could he not? But what I saw was a college QB trying to play in the pros. Maybe he can be coached up with time, but after 3 years RGIII is still a college QB and his career is hanging by a tread. I fear JM is the Tim Tebow of this year’s draft class. He comes to the league with huge hype, but a skill set that will never translate to either a starter or even a backup NFL QB.

So where does that leave the Browns? In desperate need of a backup QB. I doubt the upcoming draft is a real option. The top two QBs will be gone by pick 4. After that the remainder are projects barely worthy of third round selections although some desperate team like the Browns might use a low first or second pick. I hope not. I think the Browns need to look at this second group, identify their guy, and if he is there in the third or fourth round draft him. There aren't huge expectations for third round QBs; think Volt McCoy. In any event, this guy is not a starter next year.

When JM is injured trying to run or the coaches just get tired of schoolyard football it will be time for the backup. Who is he? I believe it has to be a veteran from free agency or a trade. At this point I have no idea who, but I would prefer the Browns just sign someone who is competent. They don't need to spend big bucks, just sign a guy who can come in and move the team and maybe win a few games. If this paints a bleak picture of next year’s team, I guess it does. Since I might not be here to see it, this is easy for me to say. I hope I am wrong, but Fear will not be.

Finally, an aside. Was, Bernie Kosar can ramble at times, but he makes a good point. Perhaps, the Browns problem is not the QB but rather the coaches and management. Could the Browns make the playoffs with Peyton Manning? I’m not sure. The reality is the past five years have seen a plethora of no name coaches. How can you expect a 22 year old kid to buy into a coach or system of someone who 5-6 years ago was a high school coach. Haslam needs to spend the off season making quiet inquires of the Cowhers, Grudens, Harbaughs and any college coaches with big time credibility. If he can get one of them, goodbye Pettine. Bring in a coach and management team the kids can respect and buy into and this is a different team. Does anyone not believe that if Bill Belicheck were the head coach this team would have 2-3 additional wins to their record. That’s often the difference between a playoff team and another year of futility.

Well, they tell me I have to get my sleep. Hope you all respect my opinions.

Good post, Matt01, but I think we might end up desperate for a starting QB after this season is over, not just a backup QB. Only time will tell.

Matt01: Stay strong, I know everyone is pulling for you.

Regarding the quarterback situation, it really is a dilemma. The outlook could change on Sunday if JFF just shows a little bit. But if not, man oh man.
Glennon: I think he could be had cheap. Did not understand why Tampa seemed to think so iittle of him. 19 TDs and 9 picks after taking over as starter a little ways into his rookie season. If JFF had done that, we'd all be giddy. I think he could be had cheap. Tampa is talking about drafting a QB!
Hoyer: It's over. He can't come back. He played mediocre and acted like a jerk (uh-oh, gonna get killed for that). No team will pay him starter money or get excited about bringing him in as No.1. He is a backup.
Cutler: I'll never understand the salary stuff, and I know he is a Grade A jackass. But he has thrown 28 TDs this year. If we could win with Hoyer, we could win more with him.
Mariotta: Drafting him would be giving up on JFF, obviously. I'm not opposed toit, but we would not win next year. More importantly, we just don't have the picks to pull it off.
Bradford: Good QB, snakebit with the injuries. This might work, and would keep our draft powder dry. It would spell the end for JFF, of course.
RGIII: If Kyle pushes for it, I'm for it. If he does not, it is quite telling. He knows the guy's attitude, and his prospects for learning to play in the pocket.

Let's all hope Johnny goes out and tosses two TDs in each of the last two games and maybe runs for a noter one or two and shows better form and a better arm. He can't just flick a switch, but it is possible that his first game as a starter suffered from nerves, play calling that didn't fit his skills and uninspired play by certain teammates with misguided loyalty to Hoyer. Maybe everybody settles down.

\

No, I don't think it does, which is why I consider the deal IF Manziel equally matches his performance in the remaining two games.

Because there aren't other needs to fill on the roster and that we can fill those needs by trading away draft picks to move up in the draft? I wonder who would have been drafted by the Browns with the 83rd selection which was given up to get Manziel.

The 'trade up' to get a player attitude is silly and I despise it. I want the Browns to improve and not waste multiple picks on reaches.

Assuming the Browns do not re-sign Brian Hoyer (and I do assume that), we'll need to add at least one QB and probably two. Barring a trade, they will come from the following two lists, Free Agent QB's (as ChargerDawg posted earlier) and the 2015 Draft.


2015 NFL Free Agent QB's

(Name, Team, Age)

QB Ryan Lindley ARI 26 RFA
QB T.J. Yates ATL 28
QB Tyrod Taylor BAL 26
QB Joe Webb CAR 29
QB Jimmy Clausen CHI 28
QB Jason Campbell CIN 34
QB Brian Hoyer CLE 30
QB Kellen Moore DET 26 RFA
QB Dan Orlovsky DET 32
QB Matt Flynn GB 30
QB Scott Tolzien GB 28
QB Matt Moore MIA 31
QB Christian Ponder MIN 27
QB Ryan Mallett NE 27
QB Luke McCown NO 34
QB Michael Vick NYJ 35
QB Mark Sanchez PHI 29
QB Matt Hasselbeck SEA 40
QB Tarvaris Jackson SEA 32
QB Terrelle Pryor SEA 26
QB Blaine Gabbert SF 26
QB Josh Johnson SF 29
QB Austin Davis STL 26 RFA
QB Shaun Hill STL 35
QB Jake Locker TEN 27
QB Colt McCoy WAS 29

http://nfltraderumors.co/2015-nfl-free-agents-list/


***************


2015 NFL Draft - Top 10 QB's

(Per Draft-Tek)

QB Rank / Overall Rank, College, Ht, Wt


1 (2) Oregon - Marcus Mariota
Jr 6'4" 211
--

2 (6) Florida St - Jameis Winston
So 6'3" 228
--

3 (23) UCLA - Brett Hundley
Jr 6'3" 227
--

4 (28) Michigan St - Connor Cook
Jr 6'4" 219
--

5 (49) Mississippi State - Dak Prescott
Jr 6'2" 230
--

6 (59) Stanford - Kevin Hogan
Jr 6'4" 228
--

7 (125) East Carolina - Shane Carden
Sr 6'2" 221
--

8 (132) Baylor - Bryce Petty
Sr 6'2" 230
BIO
--

9 (141) Oregon St - Sean Mannion
Sr 6'4" 220
--

10 (162) Cincinnati - Gunner Kiel
So 6'4" 208
--

http://www.drafttek.com/2015-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings/Top-QBs.asp

No thanks on Jameis Winston. I wouldn't use any pick at all on him. Guy's a rapist and a thief. You think JFF has trouble winning the locker room? Yeesh.
But as for those who say this team has a lot of holes, so does really every team. But, if Mack stayed healthy and we had a legit NFL starter at QB (and a good kicker), we could have 10 or 11 wins right now. And that would be with a fairly young team and one with good draft and salary cap situations. I know everyone hate Cutler, and I am not saying he is the answer, but I think we'd be in the playoffs with him.
Man, I do not want to start over ….

Regardless of what JFF does these last 2 games, we need to bring in a veteran. Only question is, is it a definite veteran baackup or a veteran to compete for the starting job.

I like the idea of Bradford but will the rams be willing to trade him? And if so what price. I believe the Sam is under contract for 2015 for around $16.

If JFF plays the next two games like he did against Cinci, I would give a run at Mallet in free agency. It "looks" like he has matured off the field. He really does throw a nice ball.

If JFF shows improvement (how much is enough? I don't know. Kind of like pornography. I can't describe it but I know it when I see it). then I like Christian Ponder. Enough mobility and similarity to keep the offense identical to when JFF is in the game. Veteran enough to help JFF along in the QB room. Good enough to keep things afloat should he need to play multiple games. Not good enough to seriously threaten JFF unless JFF really really looks bad in training camp.

We obviously disagree. As a general statement, I oppose trading up at all. Further, I would only consider holding firm if there was a player I would actually take and that player is available when I'm on the clock. I guess that explains why I'm not an NFL GM.

I agree, the last thing we need is tossing away multiple draft picks on a quarterback that may or may not succeed in the NFL. We picked our guy last year and we need to stick with him through at least next season no matter what plays out the next two games. I disagree with us being a qb away from a playoff contender. We sorely need offensive line depth, a TE that can BOTH run and block and I wouldn't mind one more good receiver who is at least 6 feet tall. As for our defense the pass coverage has been the only bright spot we still have no pass rush and our run defense is abysmal, almost dead last. Hill ground us into a fine powder last week and it's not the first time, we'll never compete until we can stop the run more effectively.

I heard a local sports-talk host (Hooley) saying that the perfect "bridge" QB to bring in if we're really committed to Manziel, the guy closest to his style of play that could show him the way, is Michael Vick. I thought that makes a certain amount of sense. I also thought that the day my team signs Michael Vick is the day I stash my Browns gear in mothballs and stop watching - at least until he's gone. Can't root for the guy.

That's your first mistake!

thought Charlie Frye retired?

Well, I gotta listen to something while sitting in traffic on I-480 every night. Hooley, imo, is the most listenable of a weak bunch of local sports yakkers in PM drive.

I started listening to 92.3 (FM) 'The Fan' because I'm sick of Howard Stern. Not a bad station for Cleveland sports talk.

I'm tired of QB competitions.

Whatever the scenario, I want a clear cut starter going into camp.

Michael Vick, the Dawg Pound … the jokes write themselves.
I liked Mallett at Arkansas, and I know he has the big arm. But the Patriots groomed him and let him walk for Jimmy Garoppolo (who we could've had, btw). That is a red flag. He could be another guy who can hit clay pigeons better than receivers.

JM has his first game and it's a stinker...Honestly, the whole team played poorly..

I don't think I' ready to give up on him just yet.

With that in mind, Resign Hoyer, Looking at the list of QB's that are available, he's about the only one on there that I'd want anyway.

Draft someone with hopes of him sitting and learning.

Start Manziel for as long at it takes to determine if he's the guy or not. If not, insert Hoyer or the Rookie.

Stick with JM give him a fair shot at the job. Maybe we could sign a guy like Mallet for a back-up. Draft players for other positions of need in 2015.

Makes sense, Homewood. If they can tell at camp that Mallett is actually really good, and JFF is a bust, you have a young QB to build with. Just hope he's more Rivers than Weeden.

Question for the board ... could a pro scout watch a young QB over 3 games and make a determination regarding the "it" factor and that young QB? I've watched a lot of football over a lot of years, and to my amateur eye, his first start was disastrous. Could a trained eye watch him over 3 games and say - fairly - "this kid's not gonna make it."? Because that's what my untrained eye told me.

A scout can't tell from one great game that a guy will be great, but he could tell from three hideous games that he won't.
Three games like Cincy, and we'll know it ain't happening. But he will almost certainly play better than that.

I'd be surprised if houston lets mallet walk actually

Mallett has completed only 42 passes in his career. 2 TD and 3 INT. I don't know that Houston resigns him with Hoyer available.

There is no way the Browns resign Hoyer.
There is no way the Browns draft a QB in the first round of the 2015 draft.

Browns may not even DRAFT a QB. Farmer seems like a guy who won't waste a pick. We needed a WR and he didn't draft any.

Manziel is the quarterback next season. Shaw may be his back-up. One guy I can see the Browns signing is Christian Ponder. I think he would be the ideal guy to help Johnny and in fact if Johnny isn't good enough to start in 2015, Ponder could be a guy who would come in and I think he'd be a better option than Hoyer was for us this year. Going with two unprovens is hard, you get a vet with some experience like Ponder and I think that'll go a long way with the vets currently on the team.

Be still, my heart. Good Lord ...

Actually, the Patriots traded him. I think it has to do with them drafting Garoppolo and that Brady wants to play into his 40s.

Mallett probably asked to be traded so that he had a shot to start somewhere else.

Keep Manziel since we didn't use him enough to figure out his worth, though the last three games might prove VERY telling. He has to improve greatly to look average and competent. If he finishes healthy, a keeper. Make a sensible offer to Hoyer for based on his wins, not losses, and include decent signing bonus or guaranteed money because he delivered. Nothing consistent this year around him. It shouldn't be big time starter cash, but shouldn't be a lowball backup offer; he deserves better. Might be one of those matching offers if he still insists on "testing" FA despite a fair offer. I f he goes, Shaw is up and we need a vet.
We haven't turned all the corner yet, but we have some people in place and some in the pipeline. We are in a place where we need players. I have had a bellyful of projects and waiting on wonderful. Teams always have some of this, but we have had too much of a bad thing IMO. QB play must be a huge improvement. I hope we don't overlook Shaw; I think he can game. But if Hoyer moves on, this kid needs seasoned some.
If he can't show better than last week in the next two, and I mean in some basic things, whatever metric we see fit to use, then face up that he might be a liability we can do without.
Part of the contingency here is the staff evaluating team. We have some real disconnect between what I watch and they say about how pleased they are with performances, especially in losses. Do I see it getting better? Not as much as they do.
Not stating they are wrong, but be skeptical. It may be a lousy scheme, or wrong-headed opinion about how we approach the game.
If we are talking contingencies, many decisions need to be made. THIS has to be a solid decision, no guarantees, but at the same time, no sacred cows that are beyond questioning and off limits. Time to sift hype and hyperbole from the tangible products and measurable outcomes where we can. I really don't want this draft to be wasted.
But that is maybe a different thread. It boils down to potential upside and actual performance. Step away from the koolaid; none of the contingencies we are shaping now point to a comfortable next season.
Just win, baby!

I can agree with that.
Maybe I am the only one, but I want to see the rook some in action. If he is trade bait, let's roll the tape. If JFF stenches it up again, I think he gets a look in the final game. He has a year under his belt, what will he do? Bad pass? Bad judgment? Interceptions? Fail to score?
We have seen that already. A couple series won't kill the Jonnie stats. I liked the kid.
He is a contingency as well.

First and foremost Matt I truly wish you the best in your battle, you and your family will be in my thoughts and prayers.

there will be lots of options for backup but if I am gonna bring someone in, I might go very hard at Jake Locker. He likely will be released and although he has had trouble staying healthy. I think he could be a really good fit for this team and offense.

I think last week was an aberration and Johnny will turn it around but if not, you go out and get someone to take the job from the rookie. Its that simple.

Trade bait would be an upgrade to what we saw last week when the dude wasn't even fish bait.

Manziel will have to practically be broken and rebuilt from scratch to be an effective NFL QB. His tendency is to pull the ball down and run, versus going to the next receiver. So what we saw is nothing to evaluate.

So it depends on how willing he wants to learn how to play QB. I think the scrambling ability will eventually be a benefit, but now it is a liability. Teams will contain the pocket and make him play QB. If he can play QB, things will change.

An aberration is a departure from what is normal.

How could his performance be an aberration when it's the only thing to set a baseline?

This worries me. We'll have a mid-round draft pick and 2 useless QBs on our roster if Manziel can't turn it around.

Need a few more games, I've been pretty bummed this week though, I love the kid, but it was a travesty of a game last Sunday all around.

I originally posted this in the wrong thread. My rant fit's better here.

You know what, I'm going to take a lot of heat for this and simply don't care at this point. I hope JM goes down in a ball of flames these last few games. The guy has the attitude of a douche and was never an NFL caliber prospect to begin with. I want a real QB that can sit in a pocket, read a defense, feel pressure, and deliver an accurate throw. As far as I'm concerned, I'm waiting for starting QB # 22 in hopes that we finally get it right. Hoyer is almost there, but showed us that he cannot play well looking over his shoulder at a "rock star." Folks, we truly are a QB away; Johnny Football isn't that QB.

There's been a lot of "trained" eyes in NFL analysts that say that Manziel isn't going to make it. In fact, he fell to 22 for a reason and we are seeing why. Heck, I believe he would have dropped out of the first round completely had we not picked him. Manziel is too quick to fly when in a pocket and has played in a "backyard football" system too that never taught him the fundamentals of reading a defense, going through progressions, and delivering your throw. Signing JM was a cute move by the FO that they will regret within the next 2 years. Let's hope they can learn from there mistake because I actually like this administration and these coaches.

Hey Matt, welcome to the boards. I hope and pray that you beat your challenges.

As a general comment .... it really shocks me how many people want to toss Manziel into the garbage pile after one game.

I am reminded of the opposite situation, when Brady Quinn, full of hype and .... something else ...... was handed the starting job years ago. His 1st start was full of promise.

I also remember when Charlie Frye made his 1st start against the Jaguars, many years ago. He threw 2 TD and no INT. He looked competent.

Neither of those guys did anything well from that point on.

I think that it is dangerous to make final conclusions about a player based on one game, whether good or bad.

If a QB can't play when looking over his shoulder, he can't handle pressure and will never take you where you want to go. Funny thing is, it seems if your scenario of him "looking over his shoulder at JFF" was the case, he's been doing that all year.

Don't you find it more than a little odd that when he crumbled, just happened to be when we were in the playoff picture and the heat was on to perform? But nah, it was because he was looking over his shoulder at JFF. Puleeaase!



When playoff pressure hit, he crumbled. It is what it is.

Any fan who wishes our high draft pick to fail because "The guy has the attitude of a douche and was never an NFL caliber prospect to begin with", is someone who puts their emotional opinion ahead of what's best for the Browns. So you go ahead and do that.

Just remember, what you're hoping for is this team to be at least two years behind. Because they won't be drafting a QB high next year. The best you can hope for is they go with JFF and a bridge QB who won't take us anywhere anyway.

So you go ahead and hope we don't even draft a QB for two years and have no progress for another two years. That's your right. But don't expect any fan who wants what's best for this team to " hope JM goes down in a ball of flames".

Some of us want a winner sooner than later. And we certainly won't get that if JFF fails.