DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum 14 Yr. Old Teen Who Hit SUV With Eggs Is Slain

He was FOURTEEN.

I feel sorry for him, and the parents that have to bury him.

I am <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> that your not use to strange comments typed on Soups keyboard. I am more shocked when I see a normal comment he types <img src="/images/graemlins/saywhat.gif" alt="" />

Let's see - used to be paddling allowed in schools, now there isn't. The school system turned to garbage and the kids can do whatever they want - including hit a teacher without physical recourse. Kids today are becoming dumber and less disciplined.

In the older days spanking was a normal routine by parents and friends parents as the "tribe raised the kid" so to speak. Some cry-baby lawyers complained about spanking kids and now there is no respect for elders or other people. NOT spanking your kids is the easy way out, it let's them know that they control you. You act like spanking is evil, IT'S NOT. Beating them without reason is evil, spanking them and telling them why you did it will show them it's wrong. It's like squirting water on a cat. Just because you spank them doesn't mean that you aren't loving them as well. There is a middle ground. It's not one way or the other.

So obviously you abuse your kids. After all, your Dad spanked you once and it taught you to hit.

Oh, you never spanked them, guess I was wrong in using your own logic on you. If getting spanked teaches you to hit and you spanked and don't hit - well, guess your "common sense" theory just went out the window.

HAd you continued reading you'd note that I don't feel sorry for the kid, but think death is pretty darn severe for what he did. As for making you sick, I could care less wht you think about me - you don't know me and never will. People in this country no longer accept responsability for their actions. Well, this kid got it in the worst way possible. Kind of like when tht kid was in Singapore and vandalized years back. He was going to get a caning as it's their laws, the US was up in arms about it. Responsability for actions. I used to feel sorry for stupid people, I used to help them as much as possible, I learned that there's no cure for stupidity - so I realized that I just don't care. If someone does heroine, it's their fault, not mine. If someone eggs a car, it's their fault not mine, it's time people used their heads and stopped thinking it was cool to damage other peoples properties.

<img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Just what your father did to you I couldnt imagine. From just doing it once?

That couldn't be spanking that must be sheer abuse on his part. At any rate, I have been spanked and have spanked my kid, and I have to tell you that just becuase other people do it or advocate it does not mean that that equals what has happened to you.

It's called tough love. And if administered right can raise a good kid. I probably spanked my kid, now 13, probably three or four times and never since he was about six. And what I mean by spank is one swift smack on the butt after all else failed and just hard enough to get his attention but not hard enough to linger let alone bruise.

Today, my kid is a straight A student, never been in any trouble.

I think when some people think of spank, they think of that sadomasochistic stuff you might find on porn sites or something. I am not talking about that.

But I have found that the best discipline is love.

I have to agree with you bluecollar... I can't imagine what a father would have to do to have a daughter hate him forever for administering ONE spanking. I was spanked a few times, mostly at home and a couple at school, I deserved every one of them...... my son has been spanked a few times and is a very well behaved kid.. I know kids who have never been spanked who are well behaved kids... I can't say I think that there is an absolute right way to do things, each child is different. My son responded to spankings, my daughter does not... so we've tried to come up with something else....

I just had a few common sense rules to spankings.. first I never a spanked a child until I thought they were old enough to understand why they were being spanked, I also stopped spankings at about age 6.. I also never spanked my children when I was mad, I always allowed myself to calm down first regardless of what they did....

And I can honestly say I've only ever left a "mark" (a small bruise that looked exactly like 3 of my fingers) on my son one time and it wasn't during a spanking. He was sitting on the floor in his room playing with these knex toys when he was about 3 and I walked in and he was trying to stick one in an outlet, the cover had been left off after his hair was dryed.. and out of reflex I swatted his arm away from the outlet.. well in my haste and fear I wacked his little arm harder than I thought.. I felt like crap for 3 days......

This just caught my attention and I thought I'd chime in.

This is something nearly all kids do. Mess with cars driving by. As a youth we used to build little barricades in the road out of logs and cinder blocks, then sit in wait for a car driving to fast in the middle of the night to smash into them. It was a grand old time.

Somebody could've gotten hurt. As with all these forms childish vandalism of moving vehicles--someone could get hurt.

But as a fresh faced youth you never think it could happen to you, I guess you would call it innocence. Most kids don't understand the age old game where real people, people you know and love will and do die. Sometimes tragically.

This story is just some kids who picked the wrong SUV, had some bad luck, couldn't hide very well, etc. etc.

They shouldn't have been egging cars, they shouldn't have been shot, it's just a sad example of how the world works.

I'm not going to justify the shooter, or the kids. We all do things we shouldn't, however, only some of us are forced to deal with the consequences.

Like it or not, getting shot was the consequence--its not fair, not fair by any stretch of the word, but it happened. The other kids with him have learned a lesson they probably hate right now. They don't deserve this act of retribution by some faceless, cold-hearted bastard.

At any rate, I feel for the friends and family of this kid. Far to often kids get snuffed out in their prime. I should know, I lost more than a fair share of friends in High school. But like I said--life isn't always fair.

Wow...you guys just don't get it, do you? It was a belt because I was too loud on the basement stairs....nice, eh? It's not about the NUMBER of spanking...or beatings in this case...it's that the ass thought he had the right to touch me in that way. F him.

Sixth Commandment says it all:

You shall not murder.

JMHO

I'm really sadden by some of the reasoning in this thread, where someone has the right to murder, another human being because of an egg. Truly bewildering and uncomprehensible in MHO. Sad.

P.S. - I've had the same thing happen to me, going by a local high school, just after I washed my late model car. I knew where the egg came from and I did drive and look for the culprits but, I never had murder in my thoughts. Of course where I live its against the law to have a gun, not that I would have used it anyway, certainly not because of stupid kid's thoughtless prank.

You have deeper issues with your old man that we aren't privy to . Doesn't agree with a choice /s you made in life ? Whatever the reason it wasn't the one spanking that set you off.

So you know more about my life than I do, IRE? Interesting. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

You and soup get a room. Seriously... is your guys' existance bad enough to where you have to justify your high school existance to each other, complete strangers, on the internet? Haha come on, do you here yourselves? "Ha... I'm on the fooootball team (said in hick accent)". And "I had ALOT of friends and was busy all the time because I was COOOOOL". Just really wanted to say thanks for the laughs.

Hating your father, holding something against him for one spanking seems pretty selfish. All a father can do is try to do his best--try his best to raise a good kid--hating him for that is pretty unreasonable. It doesn't help anything. It just rests a halo of resentment upon your head, baggage if you will. My father and I never got along--but getting older I came to realize all he tried to do was raise a good kid. Honestly, did your father beat you out of the sake of beating? Or was he trying to raise you the best way he knew how?

If your father molested you or abused you--then you have a pretty good reason to hate your father--and also a pretty good reason to seek professional help, counseling and the like.

Disclaimer:" I don't know you or your father, I just read that you hated him cause he spanked you once and you felt it was uncalled for.

I'm allowed to feel how I feel. Unreasonable is using a belt on your kid for nothing really, except being a kid.


So, if using a belt is the best way he knows how then that's okay?? <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


My Father is the one needing professional help, thank you. I'm not the one that hit my kid.


Gee, thanks for you input. My Father laying a hand me was never called for.

Hating a man over his own weakness is wrong.

You said he used the belt once? Why do you now as if he beat you multiple times?

It is his right to spank you if you are his child. It is a parents responsibility to discipline his children regardless of how they feel. Of course, a parent can't go overboard, but one spanking is hardly overboard.

Also, if you are unable to maintain a close bond to your father over one spanking, then you and your father need some kind of counseling to resolve these pent up feelings.

I'm sorry you harbor such angst against a family member.

Your posts continually implicate your father as the only guilty party in your grudge. Its important to note that you can't shake hands with a clenched fist.

And you never answered the question--did your father beat you for the sake of beating--because that constitutes abuse. And the two of you need some counseling to resolve that.

Oh, brother. Forget it Derden....didn't know you were a psych major. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> You guys can justify ONE or TEN spankings all you want. I don't think it's cool or earns respect.

Sorry Michelle, I certainly didn't mean to pry, in fact I didn't honestly expect you to answer because you didn't have to... It's just that practically every kid I knew growing up got spanked on occassion and yours is the first case I've ever seen where the person grew hatred out of one spanking...... so, my apologies for going there.

No I don't. It's not my business to know and I didn't know on my post. Your feelings about spankings is born out of what your dad did to you it would appear. I don't belt my son never did.

My dad smacked me with a belt when I was a kid but I don't hate him. Your relationship with your dad is your business not mine. I was not prying just that I thought that whatever he did to you must have been pretty terrible.

Again, I have no idea who you or your dad is. Not prying. Not my place.

I didn't my Dad didn't believe in spanking. He raised four girls and never spanked one of us and neither did my Mom. Now you could say oh yeah girls. Well we also took in a couple of my cousins who were boys. They were always in trouble before my Dad got to them. He didn't spank any of them either and they respected him. Their parents used spanking as punishment and to them it was just a joke it didn't stop them from getting in trouble. Yet my Dad could get them in line when they lived with us without raising a hand or barely raising his voice and he was not a big man. None of us were afraid of my Dad but we all respected him. These cousins along with of others come to me now and tell me what a great influence he on their lives. The two that came to live with us seemed destined for jail or an early grave but they're now productive members of society and they credit my Dad with helping them turn things around. So I agree discipline is very necessary but spanking is not always the only way.

BTW I also don't think death is an appropriate punishment for throwing eggs.

throwing things at cars is one of the most dangerous things on the planet, egg also damages cars. The other kids should be beaten severely.


Gee soup, your ideas of punishment would sound right at home, in the 12th century. You probably advocate sterilization for unwed mothers....my punishment for you is to listen to Pink Floyds "On the turning away" for the next 24 hours. I don't advocate tossing eggs at cars but to be killed or "beaten severely" for such an act sounds like overkill...pun unintended.

I shouldn't have used the word HATE. But, that incident made me feel very sorry for him and taught me to pitty him, not respect him. Perhaps if my Father had beaten me regularly I wouldn't feel this way because I would have been more immune to it, but because it was once with the belt, I remember it clearly. It was uncalled for and abusive, period. Hitting a child of any age for ANY reason is just wrong, IMO. (Certainly NOT saying I'll be a perfect parent, but I will not use spankings as a way of teaching.)

Things have come full-circle now and I'm more of a parent to him than anything else. He deserves spankings sometimes...bet that would go over well. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I don't have a problem with spanking, but it was never my first choice.

The problem is reasoning with kids doesn't always work because kids can't always reason....it's not like they are little adults...they are children.....but pain on the hand for grabbing something is something they do remember.

I think reasoning and other methods of punishment work most of the time, but sometimes it just needs to be the old pain factor.....more shock factor really.

I am not talking beating......just a smack to the rump or a smack on the hand...that sort of deal.

I think everyone's experiences and beliefs are different on this topic. And I seriously don't see either answer as right or wrong. I was spanked as a child and had nothing but respect for my dad.

Because you see,I forced his hand on the issue. Spanking was a last resort for my dad. When all else failed,it was a spanking. and sometimes,when given a choice of punishments,I chose a spanking.

Firstly,let me say,he was a very loving,dedicated and hard working parent.

As I stated,spanking was a last resort for him. I'll give you an example of the way he would handle it.

First,we discussed it. He would say something to the effect,"Son,we've been over this ground before. The first time,I warned you verbaly,the second time,I grounded you for a week. So I've done my best to try to help you solve this issue. Now is there something I'm doing wrong here?"

"I mean have I fully explained to you what is wrong with this behavior?" To which I would honestly answer,"Yes,you explained it to me fully.

" And do you understand what you did wrong and why it's wrong?" To which in all honesty I would have to reply "Yes I do"

He explained to me that each time you do the same thing wrong over again,the punishment would be increased untill we came to the solution of the problem. Many times he asked me what I thought the punishment should be. Usually,by the time grounding me for a week didn't work,I had an option.

And it pretty much came down to this: Either be grounded for two weeks,or take a spanking,my choice. And if I could actually remember every single time these choices arose,I believe that I "chose" the spanking 100% of the time. But he would never spank me or discuss an incident when he was mad or angry. He would simply tell me to go to my room and think about it untill he calmed down. He told me that punishment in a loving way,never can come from anger.

When he did spank me,I fully understood why and that I deserved it. And always got a big hug and told just how much he loved me when it was over. It was always on the butt with a paddle and never in excess,but enough to send the message and leave a strong impression in my mind.And I could actually se the pain in his eyes. He hated having to do it,but I was sometimes a stubborn little SOB. I'm the one who kept pushing the envelope untill it pretty much gave him no choice. And I'm thankfull that he had the strength and patience to raise me the way he did.

And I never "feared my dad" a day in my life. But I did respect the hell out of him and miss him terribly since he passed away. Not only did he spank me,but he's the best friend I ever had in my life. Both can happen when done in a respectfull and loving way IMO.

But it's not the same for everybody and just because I feel there is a right way to spank and it's acceptible for me and my family,I don't expect everyone to agree with me. And I do know people who were spanked and punished in ways that I percieve as counter-productive and harmfull. So there are two sides to the story to be sure.

Verse,

I can only speak for myself,but I honestly expect these kind of responses from Soup. I don't know if it's just a knee jerk reaction type of thing,a complete lack of compassion or just for the shock value. But I just shake my head and carry on. Often times I feel such comments simply deserve no reply at all. But I do understand your point and feel it is a valid one.

JMHO

IMO your dad was a wise man Pit <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> I raised my kids the same way I was raised. When they were young they were asked to do something (stop fighting, behave in public, stop setting the dog on fire <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) etc, etc, if they didn't listen they were told in a firm voice, if that didn't work they got the belt. By the time they were 7 or 8 years old, asking them worked most of the time, and telling them worked everytime. My wife on the other hand did not like to spank them. They would push her to the limit when I was not home, and they knew they got away with a lot more with her. Hell they both joke about it now. They knew way back then they could get away with a lot of things with her, that they couldn't with me. They joke about ticking her off just to watch her get pissed when they were younger <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

GM, I got the belt a few times...I won't administer it, but I've never been against it. The problem I see is that too many parents fall back on the belt. They let the belt serve their role, if that makes sense.

I agree completely GM. I hate to compare kids to puppies but the learning process is very similar... my wife will threaten and threaten and threaten and never follow though.. all our kids have learned from that is that her threats are empty so they push and they push and they push... Me, they know they get one warning to stop and if it doesn't stop, action will be taken (which rarely includes spanking).....

[color:"white"] It is all about consistancy. I know kids who were disciplined with spanking - some turned out good, some bad. I know kids disciplined without spanking - some turned out good, some bad. It doesn't seem like one way is superior to the other as long as the method is consistant and moderate.

And about the kid who got shot - it was a disproportionate response to the action. I don't know how some of you can say you feel nothing for the kid who died. What he was doing was dangerous, but I at least sympathize with his family and feel remorse knowing that a child's ignorance cost him his life. Some of you people (soup) are severly detached from reality. [/color]

Yep you must have met my kids. My first was a parents dream come true. She had one spanking in her life when she was very young and never needed another.She wanted to make us happy and did what we asked of her.There were no real problems with her.
The second was the devil himself. I tried everything on him. Spanking,rewards,praise, grounding, special schools, therapy, doctors, medicine, courts, community service, jail, you name it I tried it. Nothing worked.The doctors said he was bi polar with oppositional defiance dissorder. That boy just loved to fight and he did things his way regardless of the consequences. The stories I can tell about him are unbelievable.
The third was somewhere in the middle. He had spankings when he was young but by the time he was 5 loss of priviledge was the most effective tool to keep him on the straight and narrow. He's my normal child.
I think we tend to try the things that worked on us but that may or may not be successful. Kids don't come with a manual. They are all different. All you can do is love them and do the best you can. BTW for anyone who has a child like my second. Hang in there. My challenge child has almost put himself through college. He'll graduate in June 2007. <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

All kids are different, but this idea you can just sit and reason is great if sitting and reasoning is all you want to do, and as the adult, you don't need to explain everything. Sometimes it is as simple as explaining it once and then after that telling them that is the way it is going to be.....repeating myself more than maybe one time has never been a strenght of mine and in my view, unnecessary...at least for the basic stuff.....sure, you hammer home the drug stuff, the sex stuff....but stuff like don't touch that again or don't talk back to your Mom...that doesn't need explaining more than once.

If kids don't learn what happens after the word and look, they just keep on.

For the record agaain, I'm not condoning his death.

What people don't get. In other countries that are horrible, kids are fighting real wars with guns at that age. I worked with a couple guys from El Salvador when I was in college, in their homeland they said the Guerillas would break into homes and kill all the men NO MATTER WHAT THE AGE.

Kids who are 14 know what they are doing is wrong, they shouldn't be doing it in this day an age. Those saying "we did it when we were young" how fast were cars back then? My dad would tell me stories about tying tin cans on a string and getting cars to drive over them so they'd drag them and make noise. Cars weren't as fast then as they are now. 14 year olds know it's dangerous to do what they did. Once you get to 12 and up, age is just an excuse. (If it were a 5 year old, heck yeah I'd feel sorry for him).

Bottom line, at that age kids know what they are doing. I don't feel sorry for heroin users, don't feel sorry for people who drag race in the street and hit a tree, don't feel sorry for people who drink and drive and hurt themselves, don't feel sorry for a kid who jumps out of a tree and breaks his arm, don't feel sorry for a kid egging a car and getting shot - he knew it was dumb when he did it. Being typical Americans none of you have asked me first question that should have hit your brain (doesn't surprise me as the majority in this country are sheep) - "What do you think should happen to the gu who shot the kid?" He should be hung without a jury or trial. What he did was overboard and completely unnecassary and inexcusable. The person who did the shooting deserves death. However, I still don't feel sorry for the kid.

I feel sorry for you soup <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> The kid was wrong, but he did not deserve to be shot. If your that cold hearted, then I really feel sorry for you bud <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Wasted emotions GM.

OMG, can't you people read???????



Someone is bound to be able to read ne of the above.

GM, I agree with you.. and for the record...

What the heck does this have to do with anything? Do you think they fully understand what they are fighting for.. or against?

What YOU don't get is that kids are kids... and "this day and age" has ZERO to do with it... Kids have been kids since... well since there were kids. They play, they push limits, they get in trouble, they always have and they always will... as much as you would like to think we've reached some age of enlightenment where human nature has changed, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but it hasn't.

SUV, city street.. how fast could he have been going? 40? I'm pretty sure that 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago cars went 40 mph on a city street. The thing that has changed between then and now is not the speed of the cars, it's the common sense of the drivers.

So when you're dad told you this story, did you tell HIM, he deserved to be shot?

No they don't. They've never driven a car, they have no idea what it takes to send a car out of control. They think it's funny, harmless fun that causes some other guy to wash his car and if they get caught they'll get grounded... trust me, that's about as deep as most 14 year olds are going to think into this.

I can't speak for anybody else, but my not asking you that had nothing to do with being a sheep.. (whatever that has to do with it <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />) I personally didn't ask you because after reading your posts in this thread, I don't care. You have proven to be completely clueless when it comes to mistakes and the price a person deserves to pay for that mistake... a 14-year-old kid, thinking he was out to have some fun and get away with something he viewed as harmless... and you "don't feel sorry" that he ended up dead....

Derden's Take on this:

This is something nearly all kids do. Mess with cars driving by. As a youth we used to build little barricades in the road out of logs and cinder blocks, then sit in wait for a car driving to fast in the middle of the night to smash into them. It was a grand old time.

Somebody could've gotten hurt. As with all these forms childish vandalism of moving vehicles--someone could get hurt.

But as a fresh faced youth you never think it could happen to you, I guess you would call it innocence. Most kids don't understand the age old game where real people, people you know and love will and do die. Sometimes tragically.

This story is just some kids who picked the wrong SUV, had some bad luck, couldn't hide very well, etc. etc.

They shouldn't have been egging cars, they shouldn't have been shot, it's just a sad example of how the world works.

I'm not going to justify the shooter, or the kids. We all do things we shouldn't, however, only some of us are forced to deal with the consequences.

Like it or not, getting shot was the consequence--its not fair, not fair by any stretch of the word, but it happened. The other kids with him have learned a lesson they probably hate right now. They don't deserve this act of retribution by some faceless, cold-hearted bastard.

At any rate, I feel for the friends and family of this kid. Far to often kids get snuffed out in their prime. I should know, I lost more than a fair share of friends in High school. But like I said--life isn't always fair.

I'm done with this thread, you kids need to take reading comprehension. There were 2 people who I understood what I said in this whole thread. The above proves you don't get it and never will. Not once did I say he deserved shot and killed, not one time. I choose not to feel sorry for people who did something negative and got a negative reaction out of it. I never will feel sorry for that.

HAd the kid been playing football with his friends, overthrew the ball and hit a car and got shot - I'd feel very sorry for him. But people who do negative things and get negative reactions, I don't feel sorry for them.