DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Even More Johnny Manziel discussion . . .

Imagine this scenario.

Haslam is in the room with Farmer and the coaches on draft day. They have the QBs ranked Teddy, Carr, Manziel, but the score is really, really close. Manziel texts Loggains and says "come and get me, I want to be there". That puts Haslam over the top for him. Likes the fact that Manziel wants to be here. He's not trying to force Farmer's hand ... he's letting him do his job ... but he tells Farmer how much he likes the fact that Manziel wants to be here. Although Manziel is #3 on Farmer's draft board, he's number one on Haslam's personal board. He says to Farmer "I want to do this", but it's your call. Farmer thinks "hey the grade is close, I also like that he wants to be here ... better upside than the other two guys, and it will make my boss happy" ... let's do it.

Not that far fetched.

Haslam definitely had a hand in it. That has been confirmed. To what degree is the question. But I'm sure it was a discussion and I'm sure everyone signed off on it.

Btw, love the Bradford idea. A lot.

I can't think of too many "experts" who had Carr over Manziel .... though I could be wrong. I thought that Carr had major emotional issues that worried most of the "experts".

Here is a draft from nfl.com, with 4 of their draft guys.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/mock-drafts

The funny thing is that 2 of them had Gilbert going #8 overall, only going to Minnesota instead of us. The other 2 had him going #10 to the Lions. All 4 had him as the 1st CB selected.



They had Manziel going 16 to the Cowboys, 7 to Tampa Bay, 4th to us, and 31 to the Broncos. 22 seems like a good, calculated risk.

The mocks had Carr at 28, 20, not drafted in the 1st round, and 29th. One mock had Bitonio going 31 to the broncos.

Walter Football had us taking Mike Evans at 4. Their alternate picks for us were Manziel or Watkins. They had Manziel going #7 to Tampa Bay, and Gilbert going #15 to Pittsburgh.

They had us going with Bridgewater at 26.

Their other options at 26 were Carr, Lee or Cooks.

FF Toolbox had us going Watkins, (with Manziel going #3) and Bridgewater. They had Gilbert going 11 to Tennessee, and Car at 31. (with Houston trading up for him)

Another of their mocks had us going Watkins at 4, (with Manziel going 3rd) and Bridgewater at 26. (with Gilbert going 13 to St Louis)

I also thought that there were some emotional concerns about Carr, and that he had the dreaded small hands.

I think that Carr or Manziel wasn't some huge discussion. I would bet that Farmer went to Haslam and told him that he had a deal to move up for Manziel, and he said "Go for it. Absolutely!". I don't think that Haslam forced the issue with Farmer. I know what has been reported, through hearsay, interpretation of what has been said, and supposition mostly, but I have a hard time seeing haslam, who wants desperately to win, overruling his new, trusted front office, especially in the 1st round.

I read that Farmer was high on Carr that's why I laid it out that way. I have no idea if that's the way the board actually looked or not. I was more or less just trying to paint of picture of how it might have gone down.

Fair enough.

Why would Loggains be texting the owner unless it was the coaching staff wanting to move up to get Manziel?

To me it seems that the coaching staff were the one's who initiated drafting Manziel and were looking for Haslam to approve moving up to draft Manziel. Had it been Manziel texting Haslam and Haslam initiating the contact with the coaching staff, I believe there MAY be some point to this.

But that's not what happened here. Manzile texted Loggaine who in turn looked to the owner for an answer, not the other way around.

OK, so we have a guy who still thinks Brandon Weeden was the answer, and we just used him improperly, (kinda like the Russians and marxist socialism) calling Manziel a bust after one game.

We have guys who actually believe David Carr would have been the answer. Excuse me for believing we have already seen his ceiling. I'm on the record saying this is it. Unless the Raiders get Harbaugh, Carr will never be any better than Andy Dalton, and I predict he won't be as good as Dalton. Dalton simply makes better decisions than Carr. Been watching them since they were first started in college. I live in Boise and watch too much college football.

Finally, we have Teddy apologists telling us how they wanted Teddy, pimped him, and they're giving us the final rites on Johnny. Once again, excuse me for believing we have already seen his ceiling, and once defenses squeeze the box on him its over. Teddy the answer for the Browns? Unlike many of you with your own quarterback, I admit that he deserves the opportunity to let it play out. But, Teddy is nowhere good enough to deliver us playoff wins, let alone a Lombardi. He isn't and I guarantee you it will play out.

Manziel? Arm not strong enough? You are wrong. WRONG (did he throw the ball like crap last Sunday? Yes, absolutely). Those of you who are going on the record as saying Manziel doesn't have the arm strength to make it in the NFL, talk to Tom Roselly, a guy who coached both Farve and Manziel. A quarterback coach, top quarterback coach who coached Farve with the Packers and Manziel with A&M. Footwork, Decision Making, Reading the Game, Accuracy ... hell he had a total meltdown. Farve had many total meldown disasters.

I see three scenarios:

Johnny will succeed and severely damage some you guy's credibility.

He will bust and make most of the world happy.

Cleveland fans will ruin him with their age-old, renown negativity, but it will end up just playing out under the second scenario.

Wow
One game.
You gave him one game.

That's a possible scenario and keep in mind that right after the draft Bridgewater pretty much admitted that he told his agent that he doesn't want to go to the Browns, so I'm sure that "information" got to Farmer too. As much as he "might" have liked him (more than Manziel), imagine you're Farmer...I can understand that it is tough to put your career in the hands of a QB that doesn't like you as much as you do

I forgot about Bridgewater not wanting to play here.

I'm sure that was a factor as well.

Btw, why would someone want to go to Minnesota over Cleveland? Where's my loopy emoticon?

Roy Williams (WR) said the same thing in 2004.. And he ended up in Detroit.. You know, before they actually won games..

Very well said, I've been saying it was something similar and I do like the Bradford idea with or without Manziel.

You're right. It wasn't a conclusion. It was an evaluation of his performance in that particular game and it also was about how many things he needs to fix.

I have to add this. I find it irritating how many people are trashing the guy. People are calling him a big-mouth. What? The guy has said all the right things.

He is now officially an underdog and I am rooting for him to shut all his detractors up.

yep definitely a possibility.

BUT... Bradford? the only china doll ever to make to the NFL? has he ever finished a season?

Lets sign him to a two year contract but pay him by the game and not the season, 32 games that could look him down for 4 or 5 seasons.

From your keyboard to god's ear, I would love to be shut up and proven wrong.

Name me another QB that would get ripped for going to a damn basketball game? Hell you had the chick from fox sports making stuff up about the team wasnt even showing support for manziel when he came out in introductions and how they sat on their hands as the browns introduced manziel last lol. Only one problem, not one damn word of it was true. He wasnt even the last guy out and all the guys were celebrating the same with his as they were for everyone else.

I really just want to see the kid light it up and make them eat their words. I hate that gang mentality especially all those has beens and never was trying to get 10 mins of fame by ripping a kid just out of college.

We shouldn't even be talking about another QB yet..it shouldn't even be in the discussion at this point. For once in my life i wish this owner would grow a spine and tell the media and the fans:

"I hired these guys, JM is my QB, he will be my QB for at least the next 4 years. He will be given every opportunity to succeed. This coaching staff is also safe for 4 years. We can't expect to win with constant change and turmoil. You can't plant a garden and tear the seeds out 2 days later because they are not growing fast enough. Manziel is young, he is 22 years old. He needs time to mature, this city, the media, the fans need to be patient for once and see things through. We will never know if we can be successful until we pick a course of action and stick to it without knee jerks or rash decisions. Thank you"

that right there needs to be Haslams statement to the media, the fans, and everyone else...the media needs to be put on point that applying pressure to this organization will not work anymore. We need an owner with a spine that will see things through for a change..im sick and tired of constant coahcing and Qb changes all the time...cna we plese just once let the sama eQB actually start for atleast 4 years please? no one can succeed under these conditions,. we need to stop with this nonsens eof if a guy don't tear it up right out the gate we have to find someone else.

Peyton Manning threw 29 INT as a rookie, Aikman only won 1 game his rookie year, Bradshaw was freaking awful his 1st 3 years in the league...and all of those guys have rings and are hall of famers...patience...there is a lot to look forward to with Manziel, he is young at 22, plenty of room and time for him to grow into something special for us, but we need to step back, remove the pressure, and give things a chance to cultivate.

How would you feel if Haslam did that last year with Weeden and Chud?

Or Lerner with Quinn and Crennel?

I'm not drawing comparisons, but if we got, say, 7-9, 5-11, 4-12, you'd be foolish not to change course, and then you'd have every form of sports media playing you over and over talking down to the media and the fans and claiming your going to do something that makes no sense to continue with.

We're always complaining about pulling the plug too early on coaches and quarterbacks...but when exactly did it come to bite us in the ass in the last fifteen years?

Do you think 10 of 11 double digit losing seasons has anything to do with the constant turnover?

Yeah, I don't get the Manziel hatred by so many in the media. I wonder how he would be treated if he were in ...... Dallas, perhaps? I bet that his media coverage would be a whole lot better. It is crazy ..... *gasp* he went to a basketball game, on his day off. Flog him! He was photographed with a..... girl. Crucify him!

Man, take a deep breath media.

Yes, but 'stay the course' can be as foolish as 'fire 'em all!'.

It's a fluid thing, which is why I think it would be foolish for any owner to say 'This is my QB and my HC for the next four years.

Like last year...one could argue Haslam was trigger happy, and to a degree that's a fair argument because it's hard to do anything in a year. But in hindsight, I don't think it was a terrible move. That group was dysfunctional. I was worried right away when they constantly wanted to be in the spotlight, talking about what championship teams do, and painting on the walls what champion teams do...meanwhile, that's not what championship teams spend their time doing.

My point is continuity for the sake of continuity can be just as foolish as scrapping what's not finding fast success.

Are we really doing 'the media doesn't like him because he's a Brown'?

And he would probably be much more hated if he were a Cowboy than a Brown. If you wear the star or the pinstripe and you don't win, the national media will have a field day. Ask Tony Romo.

Short of the inmates running the asylum...short of a lack of respect for the coach, you need to give the guy you hire a minimum of 4 years.

Especially if you don't have a QB.

I think the constant turnover has been a death sentence for this team.

And it's got to stop.

YTown:

Don't be coy, my friend. You really DO know why he's treated this way.

[Manziel]: "I'm going to be myself- no matter what anyone thinks."

That's 'red meat' to any pundit looking to get page hits or readership numbers. It's The Biz... and they've been doing since there's been a biz.

Kid made headlines when he won the Heisman at 19. That's off-the-charts 'headline material'... and they're gonna publish ANYTHING they can, so long as his name generates a buzz. Even non-football related stuff is going to be overexposed, because that's what they do. It's how they make their money.

Headline: "Johnny Manziel Involved in Men's Room Dustup."
Truth: JM was taking a whizz in a BW3 bathroom, when two guys got in a fight just outside the door. Cops get called in, question anyone close to the action. One of the interviewees happens to be young Mr. Football.

Story/non-story? You be the judge. The writer don't care, as long as you click his link.

It's no different than the stuff that other paparazzi do with half-azzed "celebs" like Snookie or any of the Kardashians (are any of them still 'relevant'?).

Johnny goes to Vegas.
Johnny goes to a basketball game.
Johnny goes to a bathroom.
Johnny goes home for the holidays.


As long as people are stupid enough to eat this excrement, there will always be (eo, can I borrow this term?) "Bozos" willing to extrude it onto their plates.


Don't hate tha playa... hate those who get sucked into 'tha game'....


It's your dumazz neighbor who fuels this lame crap.

I was irate that we fired Crennell...it was knee jerk through and through...he finally got us a 10 win season and just because we hit 1 bump in the road, we pulled the plug on what possibly would have been something really good for us...you don't fire a guy who wins you 10 games the year before and gets an extension after 1 year...its moronic...had we kept Crennell i am certain this team would have bounced back the following year with the same system, players, etc that won 10 games in 2007.

As for Chud, i was mad when we fired him too...it was dumb and made no sense...when Chud had decent QB play(Hoyer) he won, and when he had crap QB play he lost...however he did have a Top 10 D that was much better then what we have no. If we had this team, this schedule, with Horton's D this year, we would be in the playoffs right now...we would be a 10 win team right at this moment...with 2 games to go...firing Chud, Horton, and Turner was a step back for this organization. We would be farther along with them then we are now...

All of those guys were very good coaches, Horton came from the Steelers coaching tree, and his D was very very good here. I know Ward would still be here, and he is better then Whitner by a longshot...Ward stick people in the run game, he may be the best box safety in the league...he was a big part of that 7 ranked Run D we had last year.

Im not a fan of this current regime, Petine D suck in Bills land, and it sucks here...however...im willing to give him 4 years to win, I have to give the guy a fair shake to change my mind, but IMO we made a mistake firing Crennell, and we made the same mistake firing Chud, Turner and Horton...really set this team back big time.

25 percent of the folks around here go way overboard on a player after a few good games. WOOHOO Hoyer is great he should be in the HOF. Another 25 percent go overboard in the other direction after a few bad games. Oh man this guy sucks he is the worse player in the NFL. Cut him and anybody who had a hand in bringing him to Cleveland should be fired. Then you have the other 50 percent of us. Who realize players will have good, and bad games. Guys need time to mature when they are young, and they need time to learn a new system and work out the bugs. The problem is that the 25 percent on both ends of the spectrum are the most vocal and the most uneducated on the subject.

First off, in 4 years Manziel will have lost his best asset and that's his mobility. Second, those HOF QB's had the physical size and work ethic to play the position. Manziel can't grow up (height) and he's not evidenced any desire to be a grown up so no, he doesn't get 4 years in this win now league. Russell Wilson didn't need it, why does this guy?

I'm not.

I never saw anything to show me that Crennel was a quality coach at the NFL level who got cut off at the knees.

Guy didn't have control of his team and clearly had no idea what he was doing with his personnel.

On the player's side...you can't tell me with a straight face that the core of that roster was going to bounce back and be a playoff team...DA, Winslow, Edwards, Shaun Rodgers? C'mon.

I would say that guys who are going to be good in the NFL show flashes of something early on. I hope that JM shows something in the next 2 games, anything really, that says he belongs in the NFL.

I am probably as big a fan of Russell Wilson's game as anyone, but let's not forget a couple of very important things.

In 2011, as a rookie, Wilson won the QB job. The Seahawks were 1st in scoring defense that year, allowing only 15.3 PPG. They ran for almost 2600 yards, and 16 TD.

They scored 412 points that season, good for 9th in the NFL. Their defense scored 3 TD that season. They scored one more on a PR. Then they blocked a couple of kicks for another 2 TD. That is a total of 6 TD scored by the Seahawks that had nothing to do with their offense.

The Seahawks were also 1st in scoring defense last year, and they ran for almost 2200 yards and 14 TD. They scored 4 TD on defense last year as well.

Wilson has done a marvelous job as the Hawks QB, He played in a WCO type offense in college, and came into the NFL ready to play. His major question mark was his height. He went into a perfect situation.

We are still trying to build that kind of situation.

You guys can't keep using Wilson as an example of small QB's succeeding in the NFL then when someone hold Manziel up the same standard as Wilson call out the all of the exceptions as to why Wilson was successful. Guess what, Manziel doesn't have those things and will likely not have them in the next couple of years. Let's compare him to the more likely comparison's of RGIII and Cam Newton and tell me a guy that's that small will be in better shape physically than those two...

I hear ya when it comes to patients dude but 4 years of what I saw on Sunday and you won't have a fan left to watch the game and I include you in that. JF has to show something/anything and after just one start I wouldn't put my franchise on hold for him. That is far from knee jerk, knee jerk was pulling Hoyer for JF, that was knee jerk, sticking with JF after what we saw is knee jerk, and it says we are ready to take the entire team down with him, and that is being stupid and stubborn.

When JF shows he is ready and when he puts the work in then and only then do you tie the franchise to him until then your just condemning the fans and the balance of the team to horrible football.

I knew the JF crowd would be preaching this crap. How about this we stick it out with a QB that is 10-6 after his 1st season as a starter. How the hell is it that we are suppose to stand by and watch as the team goes down on the JF watch but when we had a QB that did show promise it was OK to jerk the job from him for this disaster and then sit patiently and wait 4 years according to you to see how things shake out... Get real Dude. Talk about a double standard......

I think Hoyer was struggling. Pieces were missing and he wasn't able to overcome. Pettine went all in on Johnny hoping for a spark. It didn't work.

Hoyer will struggle without Mack. People underestimated the Center position ever since Mangini drafted Alex. Bitonio is young and Alex's replacement is novice. This created a weakness in the OL. Nothing kills a pocket QB more than pressure up the middle.

Playing Johnny these last few games fits. It keeps Hoyer safe and Manziel a chance at a little playing time. It gives the team a chance to man-up. It is time to see who plays like a "Brown." They can finish 7-9 or 9-7.

Many have said depth on this team is the weakest part. If you examine closely, this team is threadbare with a chance to obtain a winning record. My word we haven't seen this since the Browns returned.

I very much like to see Farmer resign Hoyer, and Pettine announce Hoyer the starting QB next year. Make Manziel go earn the job. Farmer needs to continue adding talent. You can plainly see depth is the key ingredient needed to make the playoffs.

For you Manziel fans, I get it. Nothing makes a person better or hungrier being told you ain't good enough. Manziel can roll over or step up. Johnny showed he wasn't ready last week.

Just heard about this story on 92.3 FM, 'The Fan.'

'Signs of Johnny Manziel's struggles evident in poor practice outings'

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jaso...ractice-outings

JASON LA CANFORA
CBS Sports NFL Insider

December 21, 2014 8:01 am ET

Johnny Manziel's ugly debut outing last week prompted no shortage of concern within the Browns organization given how historically bad it was. While it remains a very small sample size, when coupled with his troubling outings at practice, has certainly caused some alarm with a hope that he can take a step forward at Carolina.

Sources said the same erratic and at times non-existent footwork he displayed in his starting debut, the hyper-activity in the pocket, the poor decision-making and the overall overwhelmed nature of his performance was very similar to what he displayed in practice all week. He appeared outwardly nervous and unsure, as was the case in practice as well once he was named the starter.

One source estimated the 2014 first-round pick completed maybe 40 percent of his passes in practice leading up to his first start, and there was considerable angst about whether that would transpire on Sunday, or whether the bigger stage would bring something better out of the youngster.

With things so bad in his debut, the Browns are trying to instill more fundamental pocket work in the game plan this week, sources said, with fewer read-option looks or plays that would lead directly into Manziel taking off running. The hope is to slow him down a little and get him playing the position more soundly and traditionally, without sapping his athleticism.

He was a little better in practice this past week, sources said, but not exponentially so, and is working on not giving away so much with his eyes and locking on to options, particularly big receiver Josh Gordon. At Texas A&M, he could get away with throwing jump balls to huge star receiver Mike Evans with regularity, but overshot teammates Sunday and the Bengals defense had far too easy a time determining where the ball would be going.

While it may not be time to panic just yet, sources said if that opening performance is indicative of what transpires in the final two weeks, then panic could set in much sooner than would be the norm in these situations. Working in Manziel's favor is the fact that owner Jimmy Haslam was a primary reason he was selected by the team.


(end)

LaCanfora has not written one positive word about the browns or any browns player since his buddy Lombardi was canned. If this had come from any other source it would be alarming, it would be concerning, it would be frightening, but coming from Lombardi's boy toy lol I may print this one out just to give the article the respect it deserves. Taco night and little kings, yea it will come in handy.