DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What is the contingency plan at quarterback beyond these next two games?

Maybe Connor Shaw will have a strong performance, and give us all a little reason for optimism going into the offseason? Right now I have next to none.

I acknowledge our talented, on the rise roster, but without a capable QB the rest of the pieces are next to irrelevant. (if said QB cannot/is not performing).

Just saw that on PFT. Isn't it required that the Browns have to start at least 3 QB's per season anyway ?

Ahh, starting the third string QB for the last game of the season.

Becoming a browns tradition.

If you think about it, how much worse could he be then the other two?

I hope he kicks butt if he plays!

Shaw will get rattled and throw a touchdown by mistake, we win 7 - 6.

I wanted to see more of Shaw anyway.. to see if Spurrier knew what he was talking about when he said Shaw was better than Manziell and Hoyer...

I would love to play spoiler and keep Baltimore out of the playoffs while getting even in the division.

I hope the entire team comes to play on Sunday and gives Shaw a chance.

Even with all the Hoyer/Manziel drama, finishing 8-8 with a division win to end the year would be a huge step for this young team.

I hope Shaw puts his name into the QB mix for next year.

We'll see...

Did he say that? I might have to re-think my position now.

But seriously, if Spurrier said it then I would have to say that I agree with him.

Edit: I went back and found this article about it.

So much for Rex Grossman...

Rex Grossman passes on Browns offer with family in town for Christmas

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdo...-010333684.html

two runners with bad wheels that play qb....what could go wrong

Anyone else find the juxtaposition between these two statements funny?

Is it hypocritical? Sure.

But if Johnny is going to be on this team, the only thing that makes sense going forward, is him starting..

Anything else just leads bullcrap that I would rather the starter not have to deal with..

If as a FO, they feel that he can't be the guy going forward. Then it's (IMO) better to just cut your losses and move on from him..

As I've said, I personally don't care who the QB or any position is.. As long as we win..

We could trade for Ben Roethlisberger, Sign Ray Lewis out of retirement, and have Rex Ryan as HC.. I don't care who.. Just win..

That would probably be a more prudent idea than 'name him the starter next year', but what will happen is probably in between there.

I really don't see any value in going forward just for the sake of going forward. Manziel checked every - and I mean EVERY - box when it came to warning signs as to why he would be a colossal failure.

At this point, you stash him away and try and work with him as a third stringer (if that's even worth dealing with the media circus surrounding him). That's the position he should've always been in, because that's who he was - a low odds project QB.

But I don't see how starting him is a step in any direction. You don't throw the calf back in the bull ring just to 'see what you have'.

just seen on drennan live that logans is our qb coach....on his resume is vince young, locker, manzel

Yes.

I think some of the people who still like Manziel are in denial (Think Tim Tebow 2.0). Even though we haven't seen much from Manziel, from what we have seen he's most likely a bust.

I don't think he will be here next season, and that's fine with me. Sad to say.

I wouldn't mind seeing him play this last game, but it doesn't look like he's gonna play (nor perhaps wants to?)....

I think it's best if we just cut our losses concerning him and move on.

...Once again.

Yes.. Clearly I'm just a love struck football fan who only cares that Manziel is the QB regardless if we win or not..

Or.. If you.. I don't know.. Read the next post.. I clearly explained why I said that.. and even admitted it was hypocritical..

But whatever..

I got ya buddy! I didn't read your next post, but now I did.

I have a limited amount of time while I'm at home on my computer, can't read everything, must be at work sooner or later and of course look at other stuff while online.... Nice, wholesome stuff. lol

General reply.

I almost can't stand reading this anymore. Hoyer sucks. Manziel sucks. I swear to God that Kosar and Couch are dead on.

imo Hoyer didn't get enough time, and Manziel certainly didn't get enough time. But hey...lets do what we have always done. Panic.

How about we let somebody develop a bit before we judge them?

We do need to start Shaw off the practice squad so he can struggle and we can tear him up too. Then we can finally get down to business of discussing which qb we will rush to judgement and ruin in the draft.

I hope with all my heart that this owner and front office are different. Freakin' pick someone and develop them.

Oh great, someone bringing reason into the discussion.

Panic and finding blame are the patterns of this fan base, lets not muddy the waters.

I thnk they wanted to let JM sit and said so.. BH unfortunately forced their hand by playing the way he did.

We ssw first hand why they wanted JM to sit and learn...

Now so many want us to pee away our draft picks so we can move up for another developmental QB in Mariotta... Gawd please... no.

Lets stick with the plan... give JM a full season to see if anything comes on for the guy..use our picks to fill more holes and then decide the next QB move.

Those that dismiss JM , may be right but lets be sure before we re-boot. I see no one inthsi up coming draft that can step right in and start save for Winston and his maturity and ability to lead give pause for concern.

That's why I think it would be a good idea to mend fences with Hoyer and try to get him back here as the undisputed starter. Let JM sit as long as it takes.

My fear is both sides will have too much pride to get it done.

Excellent post and I agree w/you completely.

I think it would be a mistake to give up on these guys this early.

The fact that Hoyer showed he 'can' play well has to be encouraging. How many games were we saying 'just one first down' or one defense stop and we win? that is how close we are and if we blow up the offense - again - we will be here next season saying the same stuff and complaining of rebuilding.

We had some good success running, especially early on. We are middle of the league for rushing yards. Special teams killed us quite a bit - personalities killed us - and yet we did get to 7-4. Good teams can run late in the season and us not so much.

Since I don't get to see the games -only listen on radio - it did seem like we went away from a lot of the quick routes / timing routes that Hoyer liked earlier in the year. The one game I did see was the Bengals in the wind, where Hoyer was making all kinds of tight throws in good coverage...amazing some of them. So you know he has skill - he can make the throws - so why not stay with him, keep building the running game - and shore up special teams. It also seemed that every week - at least from the radio - we struggle to know what kind of team identity are we - running / passing / aggressive defense or what?

How many fumbles, INT, bad calls kept us from winning? All mistakes that get fixed with better discipline, team continuity and focus.

Keep in mind, it's not the team that is saying these things.. It's a Former QB hero that was rebuffed by the team and a 1st round bust who was (no doubt) somewhat ruined by one of the former regimes.

And then there are the fans. They want a winner, but they aren't willing to let a guy develop (at least it appears the majority of them anyway)

I did want to ask on this as there seems to be a lot of knowledgeble football folks here - how do you explain the drop off? Seeing some of the throws on replays, the throws are high, behind, of just way off. At his level, the ability to make the throws is not in question b/c he would not be here in the NFL and we saw him make the throws earlier.

I guess the bigger questions I have are:

1. Why did his accuracy go to pot
2. Can it be fixed?

If it can be fixed, then wouldn't he be a good average QB for us to use for a few years while we develop the rest of the team?

Hoyer has stuff to fix, admiitedly. But he can go and play now. Manziel cannot play yet, and I am speaking beyond his injury. If Shaw can look better or at least adequate, I think he is a keeper. When you are this deep into QB roster, not much can be expected, so Shaw has earned a chance to run the boat in a pointless game at the very least IMO.

No crystal ball, but if JM is as much a project as he seems to be, that demands consideration. I would like to see all my options. Hope they do not include Mariota in the draft.

Start Shaw and keep him clean.

I think some of that is missing Mack.. I also think some of JM's issues are the lack of Mack at Center.

I know that some folks thought that he wasn't worth the money, but I think this proves that theory totally wrong.

Missing Mack isn't the only issue, part of it has to be what someone else said, Rookie RB's hitting the wall certainly didn't help. Jordan Cameron being injured so much. (we saw sunday what he brings to the game)

And I don't know why, but it seems that except for his first game back, Gordan hasn't helped much.

Lots of possibles.. Hope they can sort it out.

But is he as bad as he's shown? As for dropping back one more step, that not only gives the DL more time to knock his passes down but it does nothing to mitigate this height issue. Just gives him more time to trip over his own feet.

I mean FFS, he knocked himself down just throwing pass (likely when he "tweaked" his hammy) and it was a short pass! Imagine what he would have done to himself if he'd been trying to throw it down the field!

I think the downfall started with Mack's injury.

Here's the thing..what they are saying is still the truth. And Bernie being Jilted imo has nothing to do with it.

Bernie Kosar, concussed, drunk, on pills, and texting while speeding, is still smart as hell when it comes to football, and especially the qb position.

I don't care what anyone thinks...everyone has an opinion. What matters is what the front office does. We absolutely, positively, need to develop someone.

Manziel should know the playbook....please. A phonebook? In less than a year? And then instantly recall what the entire offense is doing on each play, then react in less than 3 seconds?

With no experience? With defensive coordinators scouring every snap you ever took to find the one weakness, and then exploit it with talent you may never have played against?

Its plain foolish, i don't care what anyone says. We will never know what any of these guys can achieve if we don't get a decent team around them, and some freakin' consistency.

I'll bet that very few qb's come in and look great their first year. And those that do, i'll bet they all had good defenses, and running games, and had to do very little.

Sure we would like to see something better than we did, but not even a season? Pick someone and give them 3. Thats my take.

No, they may not look great, but they show something and more importantly they show they have the work ethic desire to be great.

Why do they have to show anything? Whats something? If you take an egg that was just laid from a hen and crack it open you get 'something'...a bunch of clear goo, with a yellow blob in the middle. Quite tasty, but thats about it. But if you let it develop you get a little yellow chic.

Now that may be kind of a lame example, and it probably means i'm hungry, but the fact is our qb's aren't ready yet. Our team isn't ready yet.

It's real easy to say 'work ethic' or 'bust', or 'immature' but we really don't know do we? How come we hear people say it takes a few years to evaluate a draft pick? This is the ultimate rush to judgement with both Hoyer AND Manziel.

Maybe Manziel is immature and lazy. Maybe we have seen Hoyer's ceiling. I'm not so sure that you can say that at this point though. Hoyer seems to bust his butt to be the best he can.

And as far as Manziel goes....why label him at all? Why does someone have to make up a reason or excuse? Only he knows if he tried his best. I will say this, if its true that this kid plays with a chip on his shoulder then this was good for him. I don't think he likes the results. I hope he's humbled. I hope he sets out to prove us wrong. Wether he deserves it or not.

Personally? Sometimes I think it's best just to cut your losses and move on.

I think Hoyer had enough time to show us what he has (and unfortunately doesn't have), but I wouldn't mind seeing him stay as a backup QB next year. Manziel? He was a trainwreck. I would have liked to have seen him play more, but right now, for what we've all seen? Lord have mercy! Bust.

-I hope if Shaw starts on Sunday he tears the Ravens up!

Okay Brownie...your trying to be the nice guy and post reasoning here...

I would love to agree with you,But I can not . I start off every season with the be patient , develop the guy attitude. And normally It lasts for a few weeks, not much more than that.

You want to develop Hoyer ? How do you want to be patient and develop a guy who has been in the league for 5 seasons... Been on 4 teams and has the worst accuracy in the league ?

So i will ask.. How long does it take to develop into a starter quality QB who doesn't fall apart at the middle of the season when winning counts and having 5 years in the league...Hoyer is another Matt Flynn... nothing more.

Now lets discuss developing JM... Here's a guy who can't play the last game of the year because some bigger guy fell on him.

Over and over on this board and other places it was said he was to small and ran around to much to handle the abuse.

Yep, he got almost 6 quarters of being the starter before getting pounced on and getting a big bruise.

I saw JM jump off both his feet to see across the line to throw a pass... And really if JM wanted this job so bad, then why isn't he starting Sunday to show his toughness..

I watched his injury over and over... wow wait til he really gets a hit...

So I can see why fans and players say what they do..seems to me it's a hopeless case... Hey if your cool on developing these kinds of QB's Then I wish you the best.

I would like to add.. that I do want to see us develop a QB and I will have the patience... But not for either of these guys..

lol. Oh i see, we need Brady, or Manning, or Luck.

It would never happen here. You don't even want to start the season with a first rounder. No way you would have started a 7th rounder. If Bledsoe doesn't get hurt, Brady probably never gets a chance to be what he is.

Your surely entitled to your opinion, and you may very well be 100% correct, but do you hear yourself? Less than a season and Hoyer sucks...yeah cut him. What if Mack doesn't get hurt? Or Gordon is never suspended? How about if we had vet receivers that ran awesome routes?

How about if our qb had a few years to know his receivers like the back of his hand? Does that improve accuracy? Technically not but it makes for a completion now and then. Those usually get labeled as accurate. The poor throws, you know the ones, to nobody, or the other team....those are usually labeled 'not accurate'. Sometimes you would be right, but not always.

And Manziel is a bust...lol yeah...maybe. Maybe Tom Brady was just a 7th round backup. Maybe Couch was a pro bowler for the Eagles, and McNab was a bust. Well at least they got some time.

And finally Connor Shaw. Our Savior. lol...he could be. By your logic he won't be though. Right off the practice squad...Hey son, "The hopes and dreams of millions of impatient fans are riding on what you do today." Basically your expectations are whacked. Just because we haven't had a qb since Bernie, doesn't mean that we can be impatient.

I hope he starts and wins. Thats a victory, knocking the rats out of the playoffs. Are we good next year with him if he does? One win? I mean he was on the practice squad. Surely we need to draft someone else...especially if he didn't pass all that much. I mean if we run it down their throats all game we still need a qb no?

There is no where in the world where the 'finished product' just pops into being. It takes time, and a lot of work.

What if we watched Manziel struggle for a year, then another, then he starts playing awesome. Thats Drew Brees. We would have ruined him too.

The reason we are constantly struggling to be relevant, is we can't just leave it alone. 14 year of sucking doesn't change the fact that we still need to work thru the pains of developing someone. Then we just might see what we all desire. Good solid football with a good qb.

What this thread needs is some petrol on the fire.

As per Mary Kay on the Twittersphere.

Manziel: "I have to take this a lot more seriously, it's a job for me now"

"I still had the college mindset a little bit"

Ok.......GO!!

I saw this one too.

Glad he's finally realized this is his job. That only took one training camp and 15 games.

Holding steady just to hold steady is folly if you don't have players who have the desire and tools to improve. I would suggest that Brady and Brees showed something that made them worth the effort...

and then he said



Mary Kay Cabot
‏@MaryKayCabot Despite that Johnny Manziel vows to "take this more seriously,'' says "I don't feel like I would have done anything different'' since draft.