DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum NBA/Cavs Discussion

If the Pistons want to tank, we should help them take Drummond off their hands.

I thought about that as well .... but I think we might have just a *little* bit of trouble talking them into that one.

He's struggled to fit into anyone's offense.



And I ask again...what on earth leads you to conclude that a team would take on albatross contract for a malcontent who does what he wants, and give 'an asset or 2' for it?

You don't know what you're talking about.

Smith is a quality defender, and a guy who has shot 45%+ in his career. (and that is with him shooting 42$ and 39% in the past 2 seasons)

He was an effective piece in Atlanta. He was never going to be worth the huge deal he signed there, just like Larry Hughes was never going to be worth a max deal in Cleveland, but he was an effective NBA F. Is he a head case? Sure. Is he also a guy who has averages 15.4 PPG, 7.8 RPG, and 3.3 RPG? Yep, that's him as well. He can also play high quality defense.

He will have a few teams after him once he clears waivers. He is a quality player. He's not a top 10 player, or anything like that, but those guys almost never become available. There is word that the Rockets are interested in him once he clears waivers.

You often tell people that they don't know what they are talking about ..... but what that I said would indicate that? If another team had a need at SF, and was stuck with a bad contract of their own, they might well be willing to trade for him. Head Coaches in every sport, at every level, think that they can straighten out a guy who has struggled elsewhere, even with attitude. Evidently the Rockets feel that they can work with him (and granted, on a minimum deal) and have more hope because they also have Dwight Howard, and the 2 players are friends.

Hmm ... I just saw this as well, from CBS. (who I guess also doesn't know what they are talking about)

Pistons waive Josh Smith, who never found a way to fit in Detroit - CBSSports.com
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bask...-fit-in-detroit

This is stunning news. Smith has struggled since arriving in Detroit last season, and Van Gundy reportedly tried his best to trade him, but you never expect something this drastic to happen with a player who has two years and $27 million left on his deal. It is unprecedented in that Smith hadn't gotten into trouble off the court or caused any problems in the locker room. He just never fit, and former general manager Joe Dumars never should have signed him.

There's a huge difference between "Trading assets for a guy with a bad contract" ... and "signing a guy for little to nothing more than the league minimum once he clears waivers". You brought up Larry Hughes, he's a good example. The only way we were able to trade him was to take on two other bad contracts in Ben Wallace and Wally Szczerbiak.

Please stop using ESPN stat pages to make player evaluations.

More often than not, you end up looking foolish.



No, he was not.

Atlanta was a very clear indication that he wasn't a first option or a team leader.



What does this have to do with the fact that no team was going to trade for him and take on his contract?

Is this the part where you realize your argument made no sense, and try to move the goal posts?



20.6 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 5.5 APG.

Want to know who that is?

Stop just copying and pasting stats like they tell a story.



The fact that no NBA team - as dumb as NBA teams can be - would ever make that trade?

Beyond that...the fact that you seem to know very little about NBA basketball and rely on stat pages for your player evaluations, and yet for some reason doggedly stick to and make lengthy defenses of completely laughable arguments.

Remember a rookie Sergey Karasev being a starting 3 on a 'solid' team that could 'compete with damn near anybody'?



Help me out a little here...

My argument is that no team would ever trade for a malcontent in Josh Smith and his albatross contract, your argument was that you were 'pretty surprised' that no one traded for him, and that you thought someone would take on another bad contract and give up 'an asset or 2'.

How exactly does posting this support your argument?

This is a headscratcher even for you.

But once again...no, it's not surprising that no one traded for him, and no team was going to give up 'assets' for him. He's an ineffective headache and had one of the league's worst contracts.

I'd take monroe as a consolation prize

I think Josh Smith is a mental midget and there is no way in the world I would want him on our team. I am not saying the original poster suggested that, but I just needed to voice that opinion.

This is what I really love about you .....



Where did I ever say that he was a 1st option, or a team leader? I said that he is a useful piece.

I sometimes wonder what it is that you read.

As far as a trade ..... it was said that they tried to trade him, and I agree that he would never be part of a lopsided trade in the Pistons favor .... but I have seen so-so players traded for value .... and I truly wonder why it is better to cut the guy than to try to trade him for another team's disappointing contract ... and if that teams needs a PF, especially, then maybe they could also pick up a 2nd round pick in addition to a bad contract.

The Cavaliers made some of these trades when Lebron left.(though granted, on a lesser scale) They traded West and Telfair for Sessions, Hollins, and a 2nd round pick.

The next year, the Cavaliers traded disappointing JJ Hickson for disappointing Omri Casspi. (again, a lesser degree, but these trades do happen.

I am sure that the Pistons made a lot of calls, but to just dump the guy this early on is kind of weird. It's not like they are worried about the chemistry of a 5 win team at this point in the season. Most of the guys on that team right now (not named Drummond) are going to be history in a few years.

I don't see the harm in signing Smith to a ring chaser contract. If he accepts being a defensive role player that we let score off the bench, he'd be very valuable with Marion, Waiters, & TT

Its like what I said about it...detroit is picking up his next two years, I'd prefer him over marion easy

You tried to argue that he was an effective piece in Atlanta and then started copying and pasting stats.

He wasn't. The offense was meant to run through him, and he was wildly ineffective there.



You're backing off your argument now, so I'll cut you some slack, but one more thing...

In this hypothetical trade you're talking about, you realize the team taking on Smith would be the one who would be compensated with a extra asset or piece, yes?

Taking on Josh Smith's baggage and contract would require a favor. When a team takes on another team's trash, they aren't the ones who throw in extra assets.

Cavs are on NBATV tonight for those that live out of market.

Seriously jacked. Didn't know they were on. Go cavs

Waiters and his circus shots.

We've been getting blocked left and right.

Cavaliers win in a blowout.

Andy gets hurt. Again.

I hope the Varejao injury forces Griffins hand to trade for a shot blocking center.

As great as that sounds..

Who are you going to get.. Who really wants to give one up... What are we going to give up?

I've said these 2 names- Samuel Dalembert and Kosta Koufos. We don't need a Serge Ibaka or Dwight Howard. Just a guy who won't be a sieve in the middle.

I won't comment on once again how stupid the Varejao deal is.

Here's a rumor I read-

Green / Sullinger to Memphis
Koufos to Cleveland
Prince / Waiters to Boston

Include the TPE if needed.

I got to watch the game last night and I have a question for the guys on here who get to watch the Cavs all the time: Do they always play like they are going through the motions?

It seems like every time I watch them, they don't play w/a lot of energy. LeBron is the worst offender of the bunch. It's irritating because I think that type of attitude costs you at playoff time when you really need to play w/passion. I think our young guys might not be able to turn it on when they really need to because we are playing w/out passion and energy during the season.

One qualifier: I know it is a long season and that it is hard to maintain that edge all season long, but the very successful teams, like Magic's Lakers, Bird's Celtics, Jordan's Bulls, and Kobe's Lakers played hard every night. They never went through the motions.

its been the norm this year..they play down to the competition..they know they can switch it on at anytime and win...like what lebron said before the game that they play hard for guys that come back to play their old teams...i'm like WTF...you're getting 30million a year...you should be playing hard 100% of every game. My thoughts about the game, Andy and TT are not good players...thats being nice..especially TT..I think if we give haywood some meaningful minutes we'd be suprised. Waiters is finally playing like he knows how to play with these guys..still takes ill advised shots, but he's actually been great on defense..I think he had 4 or 5 steals and 4 or 5 assists last night. I don't think there is a smoother point guard playing than Kyrie...the dudes handles are just otherworldly. Andy got hurt when he was breathed on at the wrong angle...i cannot understand why we gave that dude the contract we did...i would have put alot more incentive based language in it. I hope kloves injury isn't too bad, he hit his FT's all night after it, and was able to score under the basket, but he passed up alot of open shots. No doubt it was on his mind. Overall we played down to them until the 4th, but the whole game our interior was a joke..we were tripled up on offensive rebounds and they had a bunch of second chance points. It seems like every single defensive breakdown involves TT. Frustrating. I'm curious how we play against miami.

We play in the weak east. Guys can take nights off. I know that's infuriating as a fan, but look at how the Spurs have done things. It has worked out pretty well for them. I'd sacrifice a ton of losses if it meant our best players were healthy and rested. The regular season is just 82 practices for when the real season starts.

The Chicago Bulls flame out in the playoffs because Thibs runs them into the ground during the regular season.

Not good, guys!!

Varejao torn Achilles...
ESPN Article

Yeah... it really sucks. He's one of my favorite players to watch. He is the JJ Watt of the NBA with that non-stop motor.

need to reach injury settlement and part ways with him..love him but he's glass and not worth 1/10 of the contract we gave him. I'd even go as far as waive him ala detroit and use the stretch provision.

What is the stretch provision?

You can waive a player and split his contract over the total of twice the number of years left on his contract, plus one additional year.

So if he had 3 years left, we could split his contract value over the next 7 seasons. (3X2)+1

Rockets are going to be a very good defensive team.


PG: Patrick Beverly, Jason Terry
SG: James Harden, Corey Brewer
SF: Trevor Ariza, Kostas Papanikolaou
PF: Josh Smith, Terrence Jones
C: Dwight Howard, Donatas Motiejunas

However, I'm actually worried about their offense now.

Yikes, the salary cap is complicated.

Thanks for the info

yeah the west scares me..i don't think the cavs could win in 7 against the top 3-4 seeds in west

Houstons offense might be what holds them back, but a defensive front court of Josh and Dwight is a formidable shot blocking duo. They might be the best defensive front court in the NBA because they are both elite on pick and rolls.

Andy's defense took a nose dive.

All I want for Christmas is a 7 footer who can play defense and make free throws.

This team is just bad...i truly believe they'd have a hard time being even a 7 or 8 seed in the west.. I don't think Blatt is a good coach at all..rookie or not..his system don't work on either end.. This team is incredibly soft. HUGE game against miami and we look like the 76ers...who i might add just beat the heat. He comes out without a center in the lineup...dumb...and his rotations just get worse from there..add that with ZERO inside presence and voila..down by 20 and not even halftime. Championship teams play defense. We aren't even close. Griffin better make some moves and stop waiting. He has assets he can use..

this team is so inconsistent..thats coaching..you have to be the leader...another lackluster flat game...seems to be the norm for a Blatt coached team. I don't even know what to say anymore..we don't have the personnel or coaching for a ring. We need a 2, a backup PG, a legit 5, and a coach that values defense and is able to teach it.. I don't care they are new together...defense is the easiest thing to learn. I think this will be a disappointing season in the end, but I think it will serve purpose next season what we are lacking. The only thing consistent about us is the lack of defense, particularly at the rim, like the annoucers said, playing the cavs is like a layup drill inside.

Griffin needs to stop being comfortable and make some moves or he's gone. With a team like this, you have the shortest leash possible.

thats what i've said...he's done nothing since taking over...lebron is the reason we have the team we do...and danny ainge's love affair with draft picks...use your damn assets and fix this team so they have time together. i couldn't be less impressed with griffin.

I think you are being overly negative and especially so w/Blatt. His offense is fine. The problem is that LBJ and company don't have the patience and intelligence to run it. That is why they will never achieve what the Spurs have.

The interior defense is an issue, but a bigger issue is the perimeter defense. You must stop dribble penetration and that starts on the perimeter. Our perimeter defenders allow the ball handler and cutters free paths to the rim. Of course, we don't have rim protectors and that looks to be the real problem, but not even good shot blockers can cover up for what we are seeing from our weak perimeter defense.

This team does need a big, but I would be careful about what we give up. I was all for trading Waiters, but the guy has improved his game since early in the year and has actually played pretty good defense the last couple of games I got to see.

I think this team could come together and make some noise, but it has to start w/LBJ. He is trying to be a facilitator, a dominant player, and the coach. The Cavs would be better served if James would buy into Blatt's system and get the other guys to follow along. Mixed messages are not good for a team. And we will not be a contender no matter who comes in here if that continues.

LBJ parrots what Blatt asks to be done. LBJ can't simply just take over as he did in seasons before; there's tons of miles on his tire treads.

Recently they started to figure it out. Losing Andy sets the team back a ton. Love gets to learn how to play center now, too.

2 things scare me.

1. Lack of a shot blocker.
2. Lebrons minutes. Seriously, I'd consider giving him the "Tim Duncan Treatment." I want to fire Blatt for how he's managed minutes. You're gonna need a superstar going off to stop a healthy and rested Lebron.

Yeah, LeBron is doing what's asked of him. Not sure how anyone is seeing otherwise.

We are burning him up, though.

The frontcourt dilemma was always going to be a problem going in. We're just now realizing that Andy is Andy, and prone to miss a lot of time.

Irving is starting to grasp the concept of the extra pass. Dion still needs work there, but he's giving a lot of effort in areas he never really cared about before.

We were always going to be a bad defensive team this year. With Andy going down, it's just going to be that much harder.