DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Re-sign Hoyer

Jc

Why are you guys clamouring for two always injured QBs in Bradford and locker?

We clearly have learned any lessons around here.

You certainly don't give him ridiculous money, but don't argue over peanuts either. I don't agree with the keeping him until we find someone better. Why set yourself up for failure?
We ALWAYS think their is someone BETTER around here.
What if he gets BETTER? Did we find someone then?

And you are 100% correct about the rookie salary cap. I think we will see first rounders cut before rookie contracts are up more often.

Because Bradford is the best free agent QB and better than any on our roster. His injuries are the only concern, really. And, because of those injuries, I don't think he'll be negotiating for a giant contract. We could get an excellent QB at a discount and hope he stays healthy. I don't see the problem.

It seems like you are screaming "someone....anyone...something different!"

You might be right....23rd, 24th, or the 25th qb is a charm. We'll know after next year.

Who's eligible for the draft in 2016? Anyone know?

This is my hope. I think its the best way to go.

Gordon chose to smoke weed and get suspended. They rushed trying to get him up to speed when he was back, and it cost us. Risk vs reward i guess. With time on their contracts i think we lay down the law with all these guys, evaluate them next year, entertain trade offers, and mean what we say. They could turn it around. They just deserve no respect or trust at the moment.

Don't know much about the soft defense. stuff. I tend to see it as if you try to get pressure by blitzing, then you better succeed. Do you gamble for the big stop and risk the big play?

Goes either way depending on the score at the end. Injuries played a big part imo.

The only guy that would tickle my interest in FA is Bradford. Cutler brings experience and ability, but one of the poorest attitudes and leadership abilities of any "starting quality" QB. I would still like to see what Hoyer can do behind a healthy offensive line, another year in this system, and some talented WRs around him. With an incentive laiden contract that pays on performance and games started, we can pursue his eventual replacement later if he flames out in 2015.

I, just for once, would like to build the offense around a QB first then bring in your franchise QB. That is the biggest reason we have not been able to develop a QB here. I honestly think that if we brought in McNabb, Aaron Rodgers, or Big Ben here; they would have all failed and been written off as busts because we have yet to develop a team around a QB and placed all this pressure to succeed on the QB without providing him the tools. We keep going after the Quinns, Weedens, and Manziels and thinking they should be able to do it all on their own.

I don't think Sam Bradford is a free agent, I think he has one year left on his deal with St. Louis.

If we could work out a deal for Nick Foles I would say absolutely go for it, but I don't see the Eagles getting rid of a guy whose 13-3 as a starter unless a 1st round pick is potentially involved. Chip Kelly might want to use extra picks to move up for Mariotta? Mark Sanchez is also set to become a free agent.

Foles would be nice, but to me he seems like more of a long shot than someone like Sam Bradford.

If we upgrade the offensive line and add a couple of good receivers (one in free agency, one early in the draft) then I think someone like Sanchez, Locker, Bradford or Foles could come here and be successful.

I like Brian Hoyer, but the stats really don't lie.

He turned the ball over 8 times in 4 games.
He led 1 TD drive in 29 possessions.
He completed less than 45% of his passes over a 5-game stretch.
He started playing poorly when the games got more important.

He helped us win 7-games, but 5 of them were against the Saints, Titans, Bucs, Raiders and Falcons (very bad teams). Next year we play the AFC West and NFC West.

And lastly he's extremely limited in arm strength.

I have to believe we can find another QB with a better arm that could duplicate his success and not hit an invisible glass ceiling.

Right?

So you feel that it should be another competition between Hoyer and Manziel? Whats your intent or goal? To push Manziel? Or possibly have Manziel grow up and seize the job?

I really think that Hoyer don't need competition. He's going to work as hard as he can to improve on this own.

Manziel on the other hand may realize that he screwed up and turn it around.

Now that i type this, i guess you would have a competition because you need for Manziel to have a shot, and because Hoyer hasn't shown to be great.

I just want this vicious cycle to end

I can respect that, but imo accuracy implies hitting a target. Its not fixed in place. I think their are other variables that throw it off. Timing with receivers. Experience. Knowing what the receiver is thinking. Pressure. These are things that come with time.

Other things like arm strength, or mechanics, may or may not be able to be improved.


Manziel may very well be great. I'm sure hoping someone on our roster is. I am just not holding my breath, and honestly we have to go into next year assuming that He will take for granted the skills and chance he has. Hope i'm wrong, but i think he's dug himself a big hole.

What good vet starters are out there? Isn't the fact that they are free agents imply that they aren't starters?

Hoyer don't come here as a backup. For that matter a 'good vet starter' don't come here as a backup either.

I don't have the answer, I just want some continuity, while someone learns.

They have a pro bowl TE in Jordan Cameron, a pro bowl caliber WR in Josh Gordon (maybe not for long), invested a third round pick in West at RB this year and have a good feeling about Crowell at RB, invested a first round pick in Joe Thomas, invested a first round pick in Alex Mack, invested a second round pick in Mitchell Schwartz, and invested a second round pick in Joel Bitonio. I don't know how much more the organization can do to provide a QB with tools. The offense is built, it's now up to a QB to come in and do his job.

Bradford while he looks good on the field, can't stay healthy. Plus like you stated, he's under contract.

Why would the eagles get rid of a qb that won 13 games?
Why is Sanchez better? Looks like he had 82 tds to 80 interceptions with the jets, and slightly better with the eagles. Don't know the specifics of why this stats are that way. What do you see that makes you think that he was a victim of circumstance?

Its not possible for Hoyer in year two to do better than that?



So we can try for an injured starter thats probably not available, or another injured starter that can't stay on the field. I gotta say i don't see the point.



If we do all of that stuff then couldn't Hoyer be successful as well? I mean you just pointed out that we had some other holes in our offense, yet Hoyer is written off?

Or is this a case of ...."well they haven't sucked for us yet, so here's hoping'"
You should buy two lottery tickets instead of one....improve your chances.

I've posted in other posts what i think about stats, and supposed ceilings. I don't see how we can say that at this point.

Look man....if they can't play, then they might not suck.

And no..i doubt we have. Problem is everyone wants to point at one thing to fix to make us a winner. Qb is the easy target. I don't blame people for thinking differently, and it certainly doesn't make anyone right or wrong either.

I just look at things from a time and consistency standpoint.

I don't see Manziel and Hoyer on the same roster next year ; So step is to pick one ? Then we can move on to step two !

Cameron - injured most of season.
Gordon - suspended most of season
West - rook with ball control problems early
Crow - another rook with ball control problems early
Thomas - check
Mack - injured most of season
Schwartz - passable
Bit - solid rook

How about we get them all on the field together? Looks to me that our qb this year didn't have most of those 'tools' to work with, let alone develop any chemistry will all the rookie 'tools' at receiver as well.

52 hours of game experience to judge Hoyer.
1 hour 45 minutes for Cinderella
and 1 hour for our recently promoted practice squad project.

I'm convinced....we should get Aaron Rodgers. Either him or Big Ben, Brady, or Manning.
Then steal Ozzy from Balt...and we will have to actually steal him if we want him.
And for coach, i'll defer to all of you...has to be able to win a super-bowl every year with practice squad players.

Sounds like we need a crystal ball and a time-machine.

The biggest issues I have with Hoyer is that down the stretch when the games got more important he only seemed to play worse. He was over and under throwing guys left and right and he looked extremely unsure and skiddish in the pocket.

He helped us beat the Saints, Titans, Raiders, Bucs and Falcons, five bad teams, we don't get that luxury next year. He did a lot to help us win, but he did just as much to help us lose some of those games that we were in.

He doesn't have what you would call an active arm, he almost never threw guys open, and he had very frustrating cold streaks in almost all of our wins.

I think Hoyer is OKAY but I don't think he's going to ever be able to get us to 10 or 11 wins and a division title.

Guys like Jake Locker and Sam Bradford are wild-cards, I'll agree, they both have good arms, are young and still have a lot of potential, they just can't stay healthy. I think at this point Cleveland has to roll the dice on something. I honestly cannot see a scenario where they go into next season with only Shaw and Manziel.

I'm not opposed to bringing Hoyer back, but I think we've seen his ceiling, and when things are not working around him he can't be relied upon to generate enough offense to win games by himself.

You might be right, but i'm not so sure they dump Manziel unless he crosses the line in the offseason.

I don't think Hoyer is good enough to dictate that they get rid of a first round pick.

Its a mess for sure.

I wouldn't trade Hoyer or Manzeil for Cousins

Bradford was injured in college. He has missed parts of--or all--of three seasons. He blew his knee out the last two years.

Furthermore, he has been a disappointment while playing. He has never completed 61% of his passes in a season. He has a career QB Rating of about 80. He takes a lot of sacks. He has appeared indecisive and doesn't push the ball down the field.

He has been a huge disappointment in the NFL.

Is he better than Hoyer? I mean they benched him for McCoy right? We used to have him right before Weeden and Hoyer. And why would the skins do that. RG3 is messed up in the head as it is. Manziel on the bench. idk.

It might be possible that nobody wants to come here with Manziel sitting there. If he is hands down the best guy we can get....then fine.

I don't care what we do, I just want a qb, any qb to get some time along with his teammates in the same system.

Hoyer has 1 year. That counts for something against the rest of the fa's. I'll take continuity over different weaknesses any day. Its the one thing we never do.

Well i stand corrected then. I knew he has been injured a lot, and specifically the last 2 seasons., but i thought there was a period of solid play in there. Someone will start touting someone else now.

So, still better than Hoyer then?

I wasn't trying to correct you. I have seen many posts on several threads that have said we should get Bradford. I just know that he is under contract, the Rams want to bring him back at a lower cost, he has been injured a ton, and he has not been all that great when he has played.

That doesn't mean he won't blossom in the future and I wasn't replying to you specifically. Just trying to put some information out there for everyone to consider.

But what will it take to get Cousins? Rumor was that we tried at draft time to get him but that Washington was wanting a minimum of a 1st rnd pick plus if you look at Cousin's numbers so far they are very similar to Hoyer's so who is to say he's any better.

You honestly think Gordon's or Cameron's performances were typical of Pro Bowl caliber players. Our RBs were rookies and making adjustments to the NFL. Alex Mack was injured in the beginning of the season as well. Our Wrs are getting there and our TE's outside of Cameron aren't that bad, but we still don't have the pieces in place as far as targets. We still don't have a true #1 (based on Gordon's play and liability concerns off the field). I really think we are almost there though and think we are 1 offseason/draft away from having all the pieces in place on offense. I think all we need to draft a top tier WR, ILB, and OL depth. That is why I say ride the Hoyer/Shaw/Manziel trio one more year then sell out for the QB you want in the 2016 draft.

All things being equal, I think I'd keep Hoyer.

Bradford is signed through next year with the Rams. They may cut him, as his salary is enormous, but right now he is their property.

Oh my goodness is it so bad people would like to see DA back?
I'd maybe see what it takes to get Cutler. Other than that I don't see any QBs that remotely excite me. Resigning Hoyer is probably the best we can do.

I'd love to have Hoyer back if he would have us. At this point he is probably going to moving on.

Listening to the Pettine presser I'm getting the feeling he's not so up on the idea of Hoyer returning. JMO however.

Manziel just needs to go. Hoyer does need competition, everyone but the absolute elite players needs a little fear in their belly on cut day, but I do agree with you that in year 2 of the system he should have the confidence and ability to beat out anyone who appears available at this point.

That's assuming that Brian Hoyer even wants to come back to Cleveland with the way the year ended.

If he's told he'll compete with Manziel again he might just weigh his other options. Houston, Tennessee, New York are all rumored to have interest in him. If one of those teams offers him first dibs at the starting job he might take it.

Hoyer probably walks in as the starter at Houston or Tenn. But I bet NYJ will still try make Geno work. He had a nice game to finish the season.

I just heard part of it on 92.3 and thought the same thing....

I wouldn't mind having Hoyer as a backup, however it would suck to have our starter (insert name here) injured early on and have to see Hoyer play for several games again. I liked it when he played when he was decent, but he fell apart the last few games and I don't need to see that again.

To me, having Hoyer start - or for him to play again as a backup starting - is not going forward. I like Brian as a person, but as a starter? Not to be mean, but I've seen enough.

P.S. Why do I always seem to type 'Brian' as 'Brain' instead?

Add the Bills to that list. Orton has announced his retirement...

not really
Hoyer probably wont be back.
The instant upgrade is Foles, but that isn't likely.

Then its Manziel and we need a vet to push him. He already feels entitled, and if its not a solid vet, then Manziel will coast again.

lol, thats cool man. I was incorrect though.

I don't know what we'll do, and i'm glad my job don't depend on figuring out.

As you stated a ton of names are being thrown out there. Some are available, some are not.

I get depressed thinking about it.