DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Re-sign Hoyer

So who do we get?

You might be right, i'm simply saying that it might be a bit pre-mature to say all of that.

We were in first place in the division with Hoyer as the qb.

With the exception of the 2nd Cinci game, we were right there for most games. Hoyer might not be able to pick the team up and carry them, but i would bet that we will not be able to get a guy that could anyway in this draft or in free agency. Those guys simply are not available.

This team was wildly inconsistent. That goes for both defense and offense. What is the common denominator of all of this? Inexperience. Across the board, thru almost every position, inexperience led to a ton of mistakes.

This team could very well have made it to the playoffs with Hoyer. At that point its any given Sunday.

Injuries, inexperience, and lack of time in the system. Fix that stuff then see where someone gets us.

That's just the thing. If we had a QB who could seriously cash in on the play action when our play action game was a threat, those game we "right there", we would have pulled away from in some if not most of those. Hoyer has missed wide open six point plays to I think all of our WRs except Austin. He's missed Gordon, Gabriel, Hawkins, Benjamina all when they had steps on the only person around them. And especially when the defense was generating turn overs that would not lead to points on the board.

Hoyer is a back up guy. Not trying to be mean or rip him, I like Brian. He cannot be good unless he is surrounded and put into an environment that is doing good and even at that, his inability to be accurate on deep balls is just a major concern. I've seen "enough" missed balls to yes, I don't think it's pre-mature to say Hoyer's long ball game is not going to be there.

And we gave Hoyer all the chance in the world to get us into the playoffs. At that time, he had more interceptions than touchdowns. He was declining at a rapid pace. Just saying.

My point was in an ideal world we could go into next year with:

1) ?
2) Hoyer
3) Shaw

Problem is we aren't getting somebody better than Hoyer in the draft and most likely not in FA either. Therefore, whomever we bring in (I'd prefer a vet in FA) would at MOST compete with Hoyer for the starters spot. It would allow both of them to earn it in OTA's and pre-season and then stick with whomever wins it. My guess is, being in year 2 of the system and the caliber of guys we could bring in via FA that Hoyer would win that competition anyway and we'd just essentially be signing his backup.

If we could package his physical abilities with Hoyer's poise and leadership and fight we'd be onto something.

He's won in Arizona and Carolina since leaving here as a backup. There are certainly worse options out there.

Trade JM for DA

No thanks as far as DA goes. Plus, he will never come back here.

I vote to resign Hoyer. Pay him an incentives laiden contract, which would be mid range starter money.
Give the guy a break. Yea, he flamed out, but he was still a rookie of sorts.
Not ready to completely judge him over the last few games.
I would hate for us to have only JFF and Shaw on the QB depth chart.

Cutler and Bradford are the only quarterbacks that excite me. Cutler may or may not be back with the Bears. Not sure if the Lambs would let us trade for Bradford anyway.

Has Bradford finished a season yet?

1....... I know, I'm just desperate.

I don't have a "good" option to suggest at the moment.

Everything on the table seems kinda "meh".

Maybe we'll draft some random dude that will lead us to victory, else we're going to be hosed again like we were this year.

You have to resign Hoyer. There are no other options.

I'd resign Hoyer and make him the starter. I'd also get a real QB coach in here to work with him.

Hoyer was essentially a 30 year old rookie. You hope that he's not a finished book. I don't think we can assume he is. But he needs some serious coaching...not Spence Ulchin.

I also think the consistency of keeping Hoyer at QB can be a plus.

We need consistency for once. Cincy plays pretty well every year simply because they have consistency. They'll never win a Super Bowl with Dalton, but I'd love to be playing a meaningful game Week 17 on prime time.

We tried to pay him backup money, he wouldn't sign. He wants to start and get paid like it. So if you want Hoyer, if you just HAVE to have him as your starter? Then PAY him like it. 5 years 70 million with 50 guaranteed. Bring in a veteran back up and dump the kids. Because you HAVE your franchise QB. Hoyer. Just don't complain next year when he throws 12 touchdowns and 13 interceptions. That kind of production is what you guys want to re-sign. 12 TD's and 13 picks plus a noodle arm make Hoyer the MAN in Cleveland.

Just because you would resign him doesnt mean there are no other options. There are lots of options. We spent a first on Johnny and he may be cut or he may be the starter. He is an option. We have 2 first round picks, thats an option. Guys like Bradford, Mallett, Glennon and Cutler will be options.

Resigning Hoyer is an option but do you resign a guy that was so bad that you had to pull him while in the playoff hunt? I dont think so.

You want to pay Hoyer 14 million a freaking year? You have your franchise QB in Hoyer omg lol We freaking had to pull him because he was Hoyer the Horrible out there. 50 mil guaranteed is just so laughable. Hoyer will be lucky to sign a 5 year 14 million dollar contract.

All I know is Hoyer is not the guy- nice story, but he really fell apart. Mechanics are terrible. He needs everything clean around him to get it done.

I am curious what Philli and Chip Kelly are doing-- He supposedly wants a mobile QB. Could we do a Manziel for Foles deal??? I think Foles could excel in this offense. Good enough arm and seems like a smart guy. He would be my target, I just don't know if he's available.

My next guy is Sanchez. I think he has shown more then Hoyer.

Next guy, for the backup QB would be Ponder. I'm assuming Bradford gets snagged as a starter somewhere. Ponder has at least taken some snaps, and behind a good o-line where he is not running for his life might do wonders for his career.

Anybody want to see RGIII with Shanahan again?? That would be comical- but RGIII actually played better in Shanahans system then Grudens...

I don't. I don't want to resign him. But those that do seem to think we can get him for peanuts. Hoyer turned down a good contract last year. He WANTS to start and be PAID like it. So all the "must sign Hoyer crowd" better get on board with paying him a BIG deal. They are convinced he's great.... 12 TDs to 13 interceptions has them convinced he is the MAN.

If we could do a Manziel for Foles deal I'd pull that trigger in a heartbeat. Right now I'd settle for a JM for Kirk Cousins. At least he seems to WANT to play the position.

no one would take that deal...

Just cause Hoyer wants to start and be paid like one doesn't mean he's gonna get it. You sign him to modest starter money with incentives for him and the team to reach to be activated.

And who do you suggest we get and how do we get them when we are going to be drafting in the middle of the pack. No one is suggesting that we pay Hoyer Tom Brady money. Sometimes you just have to get real instead of sarcastic.

I don't believe that Hoyer's the guy that's going to win us a superbowl but I do agree that year two will be much better for him to the tune of 22 TD's and 9 interceptions overall. With that sort of modest production this team wins the AFC North this year.

I am suggesting level of play to keep Hoyer at a reasonable price. When line did better, he did better overall.

Gordon chose not to be the answer. I will write off part of Hoyer's drop off to a tired arm and also chaotic offensive play selection. The "soft defense" approach isn't us. We call off the pressure second half and within less than five plays give up a TD.

How often do you get beat the same way and not choose to fix it. Hoyer is a base and a bridge to build on. He is not the long term answer, but give him more protection and more run game.

A lot of quality quarterbacks have been drafted later than where we will be picking. You love Hoyer so much, you think he's the answer? Where did HE get drafted? I'm pretty sure more than one QB will hit free agency as well. It's not like there aren't any choices. Hell, TRADE for a QB. I bet we could get Cousins. Might be able to get Foles. Then DRAFT one too.

Unless you're telling me you think Hoyer is the ANSWER, The franchise QB that will put this team on his shoulders and take then to the SUPER BOWL. If not why waste time on the guy? Move on and keep looking!

I'd love to see Haslam and company try to sell the fans on another year of Hoyer.... how, he's not our future but we just couldn't find anyone better so he's holding on to the job while we keep looking.... Yeah, THAT will sell tickets.
Fans will line up in droves to see Mr. Interception play a lame duck season while we try to figure it out....

We MUST at least TRY to find our future quarterback and get him some much needed experience. The longer we wait the longer it will be until we get there. Pissing away another year with Hoyer just wastes time we should be using to find our franchise QB.




He threw TWELVE touchdowns this year. He didn't light up the league. Twelve touchdowns and thirteen interceptions. How is that acceptable? How is that worthy of a contract?

Signing Hoyer does not mean you stop looking for your franchise guy. Why are so many people on this board to black and white, or is it just hyperbole? A low level starting contract for Hoyer while drafting a mid round QB to compete with Shaw for #2 and hopefully eventually taking over for Hoyer is not a bad thing.

Do you even think while you're typing your sarcasm laden knee-jerk comments? In the paragraph above this you said we should trade for Kirk Cousins (who got benched and replaced with Colt McCoy).

People need to think big picture here and stop being so myopic.

Sign him, and pay him a little over fair. He might not be the best QB, but he has good skills and is a good leader. You pay him a little over fair because he knows we are only keeping him until we find someone better. I think he's at the top of his game right now, and he needs to work on stamina.

Shaw should be the #2 QB. He showed that he was better prepared than Manziel ever was. This kid could be the guy if we let him sit another year and work him hard in practice.

One of the reasons the new CBA allows for set rookie wages (with huge bonuses), a first round bust is no longer a cap killing problem. We can dump Manziel without too much of a cap hit. I am very unimpressed with him, both as a QB and for his work ethic.

IF they get rid of Manziel:

-Re-sign Hoyer as the #2.
-Keep Shaw as the #3.
-Pursue Bradford in free agency as the #1 and hope he can finally stay healthy. If he can't, the team turns to Hoyer again next season once Bradford goes down.

Hoyer wants to be a starter and would expect to be paid as such. We are not going to pay him stater's wages as he has shown he doesn't have the skillset...

I totally get what you are saying. You think he's not capable, and you are possibly right. It is also possible that consistency comes with time. You think Hoyer and all the receivers are on the same page? They were all technically rooks. Ask yourself why austin converted so many 3rd downs? Maybe because he was where he was supposed to be?

The fact is, like you said, Hoyer missed some WIDE open guys. Early in the season those plays were more from scheme, than a guy beating the corner. I don't really think we had a huge amount of open guys deep that Hoyer missed.

Speaking of that....what is the league-wide percentage for deep ball completions? I'll bet its not very good.

Hoyer got some of them there. Hit gordon in the hands deep for a shot at a field goal for a win. Dropped. He hit Gabriel for a TD while scrambling.

Now he's certainly not to be confused with the elite qb's in the league, but they aren't in their first year either.

Why are you SO sure that Hoyer can't improve?

Take a step back and ask yourself what else cost us some games? Any receivers drop TD's or balls that extend drives? Any fumbles by rookie running-backs? How about glaring holes in the offensive line due to injury?

Pressure on the qb is bad. You see Ryan last night? How about Manning against Cinci last week? How come Manning, arguably one of the best qb's ever, couldn't pick up his team that game?

This team didn't lose because of any one person. We all expect our qb to be God re-born....totally perfect...our savior.

I would say look for that in a church, not the stadium. These guys are human.

The day we let someone grow in the position we will see improvement. Will it be enough? Maybe. If it is...great. If not, then give the kid that has been learning for a few years a shot.

Hoyer has limitations, but he won games for us. Many people think that good qbs are easy to find. They build up guys like Mallett, Locker, Grossman, etc.

I think it is in the Brown's best interest to bring back Hoyer and give him a fair opportunity to win the starting job, but he would have to know that he has to win the job and that it won't be handed to him.

Going into next season w/Manziel, Shaw, and a guy like Locker [who can never stay healthy] would be professional suicide.

Then why list him as 2nd?

I look at it like this. Right now we have Manziel and Shaw. Actually make that Shaw and Manziel.

Thats 2 guys with 11 quarters of play. Suffice it to say, thats not a safe play heading into next year.

So we need someone yet again to hold down the starters job while we develop someone.

This could be (insert your favorite fa vet that you think is the best). So we go out and get this guy.

Now we have 3 qb's....

One vet that had holes enough to be let go by someone.
An un-drafted fa qb.
And stupid party boy.

Can Shaw develop? I guess if we thought Manziel could, then I don't see why Shaw couldn't.
Can Manziel develop? With his attitude? Unlikely. Talent...yes...maturity...no.

I guess it would depend on what happens with Manziel. If he gets a chance, then Shaw has to go back on the practice squad. Then we draft a guy that is available without selling the farm to develop.

If we traded Manziel, then we still draft a guy to develop along with Shaw.

Brian Hoyer doesn't have the arm talent to ever be more than average.He's a solid game manager and can win games when everything around him is going right. He played his worst football down the stretch when the games started getting important. When the running game wasn't working and it was up to him to generate offense by himself he struggled heavily.

I'm grateful for Hoyer helping us win 7-games but he was a big reason we lost 6-games.

If we can upgrade the offensive and defense lines, and bring in some more GOOD offensive weapons for him, then I would be OKAY with bringing him back next season, but honestly I don't see him ever getting us more than 6 or 7 wins.

Next year we play the NFC West and the AFC West, we don't have the luxury of playing the Saints, Titans, Bucs, Raiders and Falcons again...

Brian Hoyer isn't bad, but he just doesn't have the arm talent to ever be more than a game manager.

DA has probably improved as a qb since we last saw him, and at this point i'm so aggravated with Manziel that i wouldn't care if we did trade him for something.

All i remember with DA was that he had NO touch on the short stuff. Can't see that going over well with the WCO.

This was the best We got overtime baby!

Just a question here, but why are "we" meaning the fan base so concerned about what a guy costs?

What's the difference? If the FO feel as if he's the best of the FA's out there, we'd be fools to let him get away at any reasonable amount of pay.

He's not dumb enough to ask for Manning or Brady money. So why worry about the dollars. That's for the team to worry about.

I only want to worry about one thing, who gives us the best chance to win. At this moment, as things stand, It's Hoyer.

It might turn out to be Manziel someday, but today, it's HOYER.

So, pay the man, keep him here for 3 or so years.

This is what i think is the problem. Of course everything on the table is 'meh'.

No team is cutting a great qb. There are no great qb's in fa.

Free agency is full of qb's that for whatever reason didn't become that franchise guy.
They all have some hole in their game, or bad situation that they were in, or both.

All things are not equal with these guys.

I understand your pessimism for sure. But starting "some random dude" that we draft works how often?

What you really have is a bunch of free agent qb's.

Some may be better than Hoyer in certain aspects of their game...Hoyer may be better in other ways. If you are going year 1, then maybe they think someone else gives us a better chance to win.

But when you look at Hoyer in year 2, and all of them in year 1, then I would think Hoyer has the edge.

I think stability at the qb position will stop the hosing...or at least warm the water.
I think developing a qb to start in the future will give us the best chance to turn that hose the other way.

To me our oline is our biggest Q.B. problem and I think Hoyer is the best option we have cause he knows the system and wasnt doing to bad when the oline was healthy, actually, the oline is mostly the reason for all good Q.B.play hell, even the run game went south when the injuy bug hit the oline IMHO,not saying hes the answer but for now he is .

So what? If we bring in Foles or Cousins like you say in the next post aren't they going to want starter money too? Any qb that starts is going to want that. Any vet that we contact for that matter. Unless your advocating that we bring these guys in as backups, but then that would mean that we are starting Cinderella....great.



And here is my favorite part of your post. This is where we all are supposed to go blind with rage and defend Hoyer to the death. Naw.

Who's convinced he's great?
Who's convinced he's the man?

Why are you SO convinced that those stats define the ceiling of Hoyer?

We know that Gordon and Cameron said 4 where on them. So now its 12 td's and 9 int's.
In know that Hoyer threw at least 4 stupid balls that were dropped by apposing d's. So back to 12 and 13.

I know that if i cared to I could find some td's that were dropped....so is it 16td's and 13 int's now?

What situation were all of those thrown in? Were we down a lot with time expiring?
Were we in 3rd and long a lot? 2nd and long?
How about penalties? How many drives they kill?
How many times was timing disrupted on possible td's that led to picks or incompletions instead? How many drives that that kill?

You throw the result out their like Hoyer was golfing or something.

Do those stats make him the man....not remotely.
They sure as hell don't define Hoyer as a qb either.