DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Re-sign Hoyer

When we rolled him out his footwork suffered. He did throw some good ones when he had time to set his feet. When he had a clean pocket and got in rhythm his footwork was good. Once he started getting hit and hurried his footwork suffered.

Isn't that what happens when you hit and hurry a qb? They rush throws, don't set their feet. Get off their spot and have to compensate. I'll give you that Hoyer is not the best at running around and chucking it up. Is he elite? No...but you already said that.



He no doubt threw some crappy passes. The one in i think the game vs the Colts where he got to set his feet and he overthrew it by a ton comes to mind. I just don't see how you can say accuracy, when timing is such a big part of it. Can you honestly tell me that over time that doesn't improve? If Hoyer is throwing to the same guy for 2-3 years and he can't hit him then I see your point, but right now i don't think it fair to label him that.

And DA? Didn't he pretty much just chuck it up deep for Edwards and Winslow to go get? I would think he's improved, but he was never labeled accurate, and never had any touch on the short stuff.

Maybe we do go after someone else. I don't really care, other then I don't want Manziel to start unless he earns it and grows up. We still need to develop someone, and we still need someone to start while we do. I just want some consistency. Then we know what we really have in everyone.

lol...it just dawned on me that some of you must be using the quick reply. Some posts seem to be responding to others when it shows my name.

Don't know how all of you do this all the time...lol

I look at Hoyer as a guy we CAN get. I'm not so sure this team trades picks for qb that is out there right now. Why not just draft someone and develop them yourselves?

This reminds me of when we used to talk about left tackles all the time. Nobody is giving up a qb thats a quality player. Why would they do that when qb's are so hard to find?

Yes, you were the thread starter so just typing in the reply in the quick reply box will default to you, even though they were probably responding to the previous post and not your original post.

Cameron was injured most of the season and Gordon was suspended most of the season, of course they weren't pro bowlers this year. But, they are pro bowl talents when healthy. You can't wait for a team to be absolutely perfect before you start pursuing a franchise QB. Part of the QB's job is to pull the team together, that includes great and average teammates. My point is that the franchise has invested a lot on the current offensive lineup and built the team to where a good QB would be able to lead the team to a winning season.

HewDawg said, "I, just for once, would like to build the offense around a QB first then bring in your franchise QB." What I'm saying is, after going through the list of offensive players and what the team has invested to get them, the offense is built. There won't be a first round pick or superstar at every position, that's unrealistic. It's up to the QB, now, to do his job and win with what's in place.

What?

No team in the history of American football has made it through an entire season without getting starters injured. It's literally impossible to achieve. That doesn't mean the team hasn't invested in a lot and built the offense. You can't expect backups to be starter quality, that's ridiculous. When those injuries happen, it's up to the QB and rest of the team to persevere.

It's amusing how many people are saying it is all about the QB, yet last year, the majority of the board wanted us to draft Watkins w/our first pick and most of you wanted no part of one of top QBs.

I do love the consistency around here.

Vers, you know a lot and I love to read your opinions. But I don't know how you can snicker at people who think our No. 1 problem is quarterback. We don't have one. If we had just a top 15 QB, we'd be a playoff team, even wit the injuries.

I've seen enough of Hoyer. It's been real and it's been nice, but it hasn't been real nice.

We need a big and experienced NFL QB with success that can stay healthy. Manziel and Conner Shaw can compete for future trade bait and backup duties.

I think that was because most people on the board didn't think any of the top QB prospects were good enough. I wanted Bridgewater, by the way, but that means nothing. Once they drafted Manziel, I decided to root for the guy because he was a Brown. If they had grabbed Teddy B. at #4, I would have been very happy.

QB is a major concern, still.

I've seen enough of Hoyer. It's been real and it's been nice, but it hasn't been real nice.

We need a big and experienced NFL QB with success that can stay healthy. Manziel and Conner Shaw can compete for future trade bait and backup duties.

I am not laughing at people for saying our biggest need is a qb. I agree w/that take. I was bringing up that most of the board did not want us to draft a qb in the first round last year, even though it was a pretty good draft class for qbs---certainly better than the crap that is coming out this year or that came out the year before. Most posters wanted us to draft Watkins last year and not a qb.

I believed then, and still believe, that we should have drafted Bridgewater at the top of the draft.

I would have never guessed in a million years that we could have had Teddy, Beckham Jr., and Buffalo's first round pick. You can't predict stuff like that, but I do know one thing..........if we had taken Teddy, we wouldn't be having all these QB conversations now.

Well, there is a long list of those guys waiting for us to take them off the unemployment line.

What don't you understand? The organization did provide tools for the qb to use. The problem was the qb still didn't have access to them for the majority of the season.

So that would mean that the qb didn't have the tools he needed to succeed. So basically the qb can't do his job like he could of with all of those players on the field.




How about the backups to backups? How will they do? How about backups(and their backups) that are in the first year of a system. How about rookie free agents? Do they have any holes in their games? How many "starter quality" guys were on the field on offense for most of the year?

If the players on the field aren't starter quality then how does that affect the game? Most of the year our center wasn't starter quality. We had pressure up the middle all season since Mack was gone. Not every play, but a ton. Worst place for pressure to come for a pocket qb. Add rookie backs picking up the blitz. How many plays failed because of that? How many drives stalled?


You act like no matter what a qb is given to work with, that they should just win anyway. I can think of 3 that maybe can do that, and its still debatable how many tools those qb's do have.

I can tell you that none of them are in their first year of their offensive system. I'll bet none of them were starting 4 rookies on offense. I'll bet none of them have rookie free agents starting in their offense either.

Injuries happen, good teams have built the depth to minimize the loss, we are still in the process of doing that. Your expectations of a young team are un-realistic.

Its never been all about the qb, I don't care who you are.

Ok, gotcha. And really, for a lot of us, it is not 20/20 hindsight. I personally wanted Derek Carr, but had dreamed of Teddy all season. Either would have been just fine. And so many good receivers to be had. I thin nearly every one of us wanted a receiver over a cornerback, and we were all stunned that we didn't grab one. We waste the Gilbert pick and find a starter in free agency.
It looks like Farmer really blew the first round. And the character thing is telling. Remember that report Lombardi leaked on Manziel? So the Patriots, in the market for a QB to groom, skip him and wait to pick Jimmy Garropolo instead. I'd trade Manziel and a Two for Jimmy right now.

It's fun to fantasize....

Draft O'Dell Beckham Jr. at #9 (instead of trading up to #8).

Then move up to #22 and take Derek Carr OR Teddy Bridgewater.

Kind of reminds me of the 2009 draft we we owned 3x 2nd-Round picks...

Brian Robiskie (instead of Ray Malaluga or Mike Wallace).
Mohammad Massaqqoui (instead of Phil Loadholt or Sean Smith).
David Vekune (instead of LeSean McCoy, who went 2 picks later....).


Like most of you, I'm sick of bad drafting, but it's fun to fantasize about "what if" huh?

"What don't you understand? The organization did provide tools for the qb to use. The problem was the qb still didn't have access to them for the majority of the season."

That's what I said...

You can't wait for a team to be absolutely perfect before you start pursuing a franchise QB. Part of the QB's job is to pull the team together, that includes great and average teammates. My point is that the franchise has invested a lot on the current offensive lineup and built the team to where a good QB would be able to lead the team to a winning season.

"You act like no matter what a qb is given to work with, that they should just win anyway."

How did I ever act like that? I said there are enough good players on offense so that a few injuries shouldn't stop a good QB from playing well. If every starter outside of the QB went down with injuries, of course the QB will most likely suck. Why do you keep making an effort to make me out to be a madman and sensationalizing my comments instead of sticking to what I actually said?

"Injuries happen, good teams have built the depth to minimize the loss, we are still in the process of doing that. Your expectations of a young team are un-realistic."

So, you'd like to have starters drafted in the first couple of rounds starting at every position and backups on the roster at every position who could step in and barely miss a step before drafting a QB? Good luck with that. My expectations heading into the season were 6-7 wins, the most realistic a person could have had based on where the team finished.

"Its never been all about the qb, I don't care who you are."

I never once said it was, not one time in my entire life.

I'm not sure of what point you're trying to make other than the roster has to be perfect before thinking about drafting a QB and expecting him to succeed. You want to talk about unrealistic expectations? A roster won't be perfect, especially for a team that's constantly in rebuild mode. By the time you get every other position perfected between starters and backups, guys will start retiring, delaying the QB selection further. The Browns have invested a lot in the offense, now is the time to take the dive and go for a QB. The offense is good enough for a guy to come in, learn, and play well enough to have a winning season.

I didn't like Carr coming out of the draft, but I have to admit that he played fairly well this year. He definitely is the future of that franchise and the team is looking to build around him.

I think his OL gave him a lot of time which masked his biggest weakness, but the kid battled all year long. We all know that he is a smart kid w/a big arm.

Mr. Kelso, it is fun to go back and look at the draft and say what if. Well, actually it is not fun. It is painful.
But I can't say I was calling for LeSean McCoy or Phil Loadholt. I CAN say that I and every Browns fan I know was calling for one of those great receivers and either Bridgewater or Carr. And people were just mystified that we took the cornerback when Gordon was going to be suspended and we had no one a WR. And it was a deep WR draft, and we still didn't take a single one.
We fans are supposed to be the dumb, reactionary armchair guys who don't really know what is going on. And just about everyone on this board would have had a better first round than Farmer. That is really bad.
Maybe Haslam chose Johnny, but not Gilbert. And a guy who is that much of a moronic ass as a rookie can't hide it in a combine interview. Take Whitner and Dansby to the Combine and let them interview test prospects.

It will never happen, but that is actually a good idea.

That got me to thinking---{dangerous, huh?]----I get the feeling that Pettine perhaps went to Dansby and Whitner and asked them to address some of the things going on w/Gilbert.

No one gave specifics, and all three--including Pettine---stated that some things stay "in-house," but all three talked about Gilbert growing up and taking the job seriously. Then you throw in what the two assistant coaches said about him...........and it's pretty easy to see the kid has issues in regards to maturity and professionalism.

I agree with the bolded portion. Who do you suggest?

I thought the QB draft class was far from good...I wouldn't have selected any of the "top 4" in the first round.

I think Teddy will be a very average to below average QB...time will tell. To pretend that he has shown thus far to be "the answer" is laughable.

We should have gone after Garropolo.

No one's ready to start making his Canton bust, but one could make a convincing argument that we could've made the playoffs with him under center.

I was impressed with the season he had based on how little Minnesota had.

Most of them guys already have jobs.

That's a very good point. You come up with a gem once in a great while.

Me personally, I wouldn't mind trying to trade for either Sam Bradford, Brock Osweiler, Mike Glennon, Kirk Cousins or even Nick Foles if the rumors about the Eagles shopping him are true (which I doubt).

As far as free agency goes, other than Brian Hoyer the only names that really interest me are Mark Sanchez and Jake Locker.

I'm not against bringing Hoyer back, but I think we've seen his ceiling.

Mike Glennon and Brock Osweiler are interesting candidates I think. Both of them have league experience (Osweiler has been sitting behind Manning the last three seasons) and both are tall kids with very big arms.

Sam Bradford and Jake Locker have both been productive when healthy but neither can stay healthy.

Literally none of those guys fits the bolded criteria.

Is their anyone specific YOU had in mind PDR?

With the system we want to run, I don't think we need a Peyton Mannning or Tom Brady..

While that would be great.

I think we just need a consistent guy, who's accurate, and has enough arm to occasionally throw it deep..

Do I think guys like Glennon and Foles could come in, and with a solid Defense, and Strong running game, run the offenze we saw for the first 10 weeks, and run it well? Yes I do.

Do they have more potential going forward than Hoyer maybe does? Its possible..

There are just so many options, but none of the options makes anyone say "Yes we have to do this"

Laughable? How so?

Bridgewater played behind perhaps the worst OL in football.

He lost the best RB in football.

His WRs were not that good and one of the guys we cut was perhaps their best WR at the end of the year.

The people in Minnesota are raving about him. Not sure how you get "laughable." And then you turn around in the very next sentence and say we should have gone after Garrapola. How has he proven to be better than Bridgewater? I am not saying he won't be better, but what has he done to prove to be better?

What's laughable is your take on QBs. Some of the ratings you gave guys in your QB thread were hilarious.

And yet, Hoyer played most of the season without what was last years best wide receiver, played without a pro bowl tight end for the vast majority of the season, played most of the season with 2 rookie running backs with ball control/fumblitis, played with punt returners that thought they were stationary after a catch, and lost a pro-bowl center early in the season.

Why do excuses for one qb (bridgeater) hold water, but excuses for another not hold water?

according to ESPN we had 7 fumbles this year, 4 lost. Is that right? I would hardly call that fumblitis...

I am not bashing Hoyer. I hope we resign him.

With that said, would you trade the Brown's offense--minus the QBs--for Minnesota's offense? LOL........it ain't even close.

I sure won't argue with espn. I guess it just seemed like more.......or maybe it got talked about more? Or maybe too many of them happened in the redzone? I don't know.

"I think Teddy will be a very average to below average QB...time will tell. To pretend that he has shown thus far to be "the answer" is laughable."

I don't know, I paid attention to all of their games on Sunday Ticket this season because I was curious how the rookie QBs would look and he looked like he might be the answer in Minnesota along with Carr being the answer in Oakland. Those two look like the best of the bunch and I think they'll both make it pretty well in this league based on their limited exposure so far.

All I ever hear is "franchise qb" What is that anyway?

I never said the team had to be perfect, you and i both know thats not reality. I think you are mis-understanding what i'm saying. This year, with all the injuries, it would have been difficult for any qb to rise above all of that, let alone a guy that has never started a full season in Hoyer or Manziel.

Would we have been better with Brady, Rodgers, or Manning...sure. 28 teams would probably like the same. Those guys became what they are over time.

The difference between you and I is when you see results. I don't expect a team in the first year of a system, with a QB that started 3 games, rookies, and backup centers, to play all that consistently.



Seems to me you have to wait for them to be completely terrible and have the first pick in the draft...then you flip a coin...pick a guy, and give him a few years. Then you might be on your way to a franchise qb.

I later rounds its worse imo...so you are left with a passible starter until maybe someone from the later rounds develops into what could be a good qb.



I guess maybe you need to define "a few injuries" to me.

Mack, McDonald at center
Cameron, Barnidge at TE
Hawkins, Austin at WR

Our probowl center and TE, and our 2 vet(if you can call them that) receivers?

Thats a lot to replace, not counting Gordon. Thats a lot to ask for what basically amounts to a rookie qb.




I see the problem now. I'm not saying you don't get someone that you think can develop into a great qb. If they aren't on the roster then you need to draft someone to develop.

I'm simply saying that a team with systems in place for a long time has players developing in that system, that when called on, are probably better prepared mentally, as apposed to players in year 1 of a system. I realize that nobody has a Mack backing up a Mack.



I understand what your saying, i'm just expecting the results to happen with time, as apposed to just plugging a qb in and instantly expecting results. We have done this to the tune of what 21 qb's since the return. How about we let someone play a bit?

We do have a lot of talented players. What they don't have is experience in this system that we are running. This imo is our biggest problem, and it makes for some real inconsistent play.

Why did Austin have so many third down conversions? I'll bet he was right where he was supposed to be. Why did Hoyer look worse when Gordon came back? A rook would have looked much worse....heck a rook did look much worse.

Is Manziel worth developing? Heck if i know. Do we need to draft someone else? Maybe.
Could someone like Hoyer, or one of the other free agents talked about in this thread, do enough for us to win? Again possible.

I believe we do better next year. 2nd year in the system, some rooks got experience. Hopefully less injuries.

We will never get what we want if we keep writing off guys because of struggles. Look at Manziel...7 quarters....we need someone new!!!

Pick any qb you want...how long you give him?

Foles is one option that would get me very excited. I just don't see how he becomes available.

If he does, have Haslam drive the Brinks truck himself to Foles front door.

Yeah, Foles has looked good. So good, that I can't see him becoming available.

It seems that you and I agree with each other and were simply horrible in relaying our messages to each other. Oy vey.

HewDawg said he wishes the Browns would build an offense first, then get their QB. In my opinion, the offense is there. Unfortunately, there were a number of injured pieces this season, but it's still there. I don't want a new QB, I want Hoyer and/or Manziel next year to play in season #2 of this system with the rest of the team. The team around the QB is there, let's now allow the QB to fit in with them.

I'll be blasted here by the peanut gallery, but Cutler has the tools if Chi is willing to part ways.

Cutler needs to go to a stable organization.

He'd be a disaster here.