DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season The NFL Draft 2015 With the 12th and 19th pick in the 2015 draft CLEVELAND selects...

What does any of that have to do with getting in the Hall of Fame?

Think About It.

I've thought about it. I don't get it.

Hall of Fame voters don't tend to view having talent around you as a detriment. Conversely, they don't tend to say 'this guy might have put up HoF numbers if he had a better team, so sure'.

You have the numbers or you don't.

Brett Hundley with pick 12, trade 19 and draft like 10 fourth round QBs.

It's pretty elementary. Kurt played under a much pass friendly offensive scheme. I can assure you Bernie would have thrived playing under Mike Martz. Mike Martz's "greatest show on turf" would have fit Bernie like a glove.

Go back and look at the two biggest offensive weapons Browns had during much of Bernie's years. Have you ever head the phrase "Marty Ball?" Hard putting up passing numbers when playing in that environment.

Those projections and assumptions are all well and good, but I fail to see what they have to do with Hall of Fame candidacy.

What voter is going to say 'Well, now if Warner didn't have those weapons and that system, maybe he wouldn't have been successful'? Conversely, who is going to say 'Well, now if Bernie had a better supporting cast, he might have put up Hall of Fame numbers.'?

As I said before, you have the numbers or you don't.

Warner's on the fence. Bernie's out at the far end of the pasture.

PDR, go back and reread your post on why you thought Kurt was better then Bernie. I think you will find your answer why all of above is relevant.

I think we need to build our strength, defense. We need a run stopper(s)! Rubin is going to be gone and Taylor is always hurt. I wouldn't mind seeing a LB, either. I think our DB's will be alright. I am seeing Desir playing opposite Haden. If we were to draft first round offense, then they should go after a WR or OL. In the end, we can't do any worse in the first round than we have over last 15 years(Thomas is the exception), can we????

This will be controversial. And I'll change my mind. But as of Right Now, today.

I don't give a rip who the Browns draft, and I don't think any Browns fans should either!

I just want to see them keep this team together! None of the playoff teams I see are using 1st year rookies, they all have players that have been on "that team" for a long time, in key positions.

There is not a 4th year person anywhere in the Browns organization. With a couple exceptions, of course.
Win the Super Bowl, not the draft.

Green Bay's best WR today was a 2nd round rookie.

My Early Picks:

12. Davonte Parker WR Louisville

19. Danny Shelton DL Washington

2nd Rd. Maxx Williams TE Minnesota

Did anyone else notice all the rookie WRs that made impacts around the league this year? Yet, our brilliant GM did not draft one of them, despite knowing that Gordon was suspended, and you guy still defend this bozo...Weird.

Let's fire him then.

What is it that you want?

Round 1 Pick 12: Amari Cooper, WR, Alabama
Round 1 Pick 19: Danny Shelton, DT, Washington
Round 2 Pick 11: Arik Armstead, DE, Oregon
Round 3 Pick 13: Gerod Holliman, FS, Louisville
Round 4 Pick 12: Bryce Petty, QB, Baylor
Round 4 Pick 16: Daryl Williams, OT, Oklahoma
Round 5 Pick 11: Max Valles, OLB, Virginia
Round 6 Pick 13: Steven Nelson, CB, Oregon State
Round 6 Pick 26: Antwan Goodley, WR, Baylor
Round 7 Pick 12: Jared Roberts, K, Colorado State

Round 1 Pick 12: Traded to Green Bay for QB Aaron Rodgers
Round 1 Pick 19: Traded to Houston for DE JJ Watt
Round 2 Pick 11: Traded to Atlanta for WR Julio Jones
Round 3 Pick 13: Traded to Green Bay for QB Aaron Rodgers
Round 4 Pick 12: Traded to Houston for DE JJ Watt
Round 4 Pick 16: Traded to Houston for DE JJ Watt
Round 5 Pick 11: Traded to Green Bay for QB Aaron Rodgers
Round 6 Pick 13: Traded to Atlanta for WR Julio Jones
Round 6 Pick 26: Traded to Atlanta for WR Julio Jones
Round 7 Pick 12: Traded to Dallas for K Dan Bailey

I like his better

Was looking at a mock draft and saw they had us taking at 1A. OLB Fowler from Florida...they also had OLB Shane Ray falling #23 to the Steelers...say we do take OLB Fowler...would it be smart to double dip and draft Shane Ray at 1b? ...not saying he's going to be there...but I wonder the packages and players we could roll with...I mean we have a ton of holes so we could easily swing multiple ways...I do like the DT Shelton as my personal 1b...he looks like a beast, I wouldn't be surprised if he rises quick and goes in the top 12

That would only happen because browns.

But personally I wouldn't be terribly opposed to two OLBs in the first. In this scenario I'd have to assume Sheard walks.

Here's another option that soups up our offense a bit.

[1] 12) Davante Parker, WR Louisville {12}
[1] 19) Jaelen Strong, WR Arizona State {26}
[2] 43) Markus Golden, OLB Missouri {79}
[3] 79) Grady Jarret, DL Clemson {99}
[4] 112ish) Andy Gallick, C Boston College {102}
[4] 116ish) Stephone Anthony, ILB Clemson {170}
[5] 151ish) Josh Robinson, RB Miss St {183}
[6] 189ish) Jared Roberts, K Colorado State {189}
[6] 202ish) J.R. Tavai, OLB USC {209}
[7] 227ish) Mitch Morse, OT Missouri {316}


Here's where that draft would put our roster --

Roster (51 total -- 2 spots for UDFA/FA/PS Players):

Offense (23)
QB (2): Manziel, Shaw, [Hoyer?]
RB (4): West, Crowell, Robinson, Winston (FB?)
FB (0):
WR (5): Parker, Hawkins, Strong, Gabriel, Benjamin
TE (2): Dray, Barnidge, [Cameron?]
OT (4): Thomas, Schwartz, Bowie, Morse
OG (4): Bitonio, Greco, Painter, Seymour
C (2): Mack, Gallick

Defense (25)
DL (7): D. Bryant, Taylor, A. Bryant, Hughes, Winn, Jarret, Kitchen
OLB(4): Kruger, Golden, Mingo, Tavai
ILB(5): Dansby, Robertson, Kirksey, Anthony, Carder (ST)
CB (4): Haden, Desir, Gilbert, Nelson
NB (1): Williams
FS (2): Gipson, Poyer
SS (2): Whitner, Bademosi

Specialists (3)
K (1): Roberts
P (1): Lanning
LS (1): Yount

I always thought it was the elbow injury he suffered at KC when the DB (Burrus?) hit his arm while he was passing. He never really threw the same after that. Kosar's career was also foreshortened by the Browns neglect of the OL in that era, especially the replacing of rock-solid Mike Baab with that weeble, Greg Racoczy. Once teams found they could defense Kosar with a pass rush up the middle, it was all but over.

1a. Bud Dupree OLB, Kentucky
1b. Danny Shelton NT, Washington
2. Anthony Harris S, Virginia (Would love C. Erving, but doubt he falls this far)
3. Justin Hardy WR, ECU
4a. Jeff Heuerman TE, Ohio State
4b. Stephone Anthony ILB, Clemson
5. Laken Tomlinson OG, Duke
6a. Jalston Fowler FB, Alabama
6b. Chuckie Keeton QB, Utah State
7. Evan Spencer WR, Ohio State

1(12):BUST
1(19):BUST

The Bernie Kosar stuff is absurd. I liked the guy (even though friends who met him say he is a total jerk). I rooted my butt off for him. I like his candor as a commentator and I acknowledge that he's the best QB we've had at least since Brian Sipe. But he was nowhere near as good as Kurt Warner, regardless of era or teammates. He was never elite. He threw for 20 TDs once and topped double figures six times. He had a .500 record as a pro. I get it, we all love him. But he was basically Kenny O'Brien. Sorry, everyone.

I don't believe the talent of our WRs were the difference in this team winning and losing last season. Due to injuries we were depleted on the offensive and defensive lines. Improving the OL and Defensive front seven depth are more important to this team than WRs.

I would make stopping the run, rushing the passer and improving the Browns running game my off season priorities. We are not likely to get a miracle solution at QB this year so, to me, this is the best road to improvement.

BTW, based on the priorities I would set for this coming off season I would like to draft Danny Shelton at 12 and Cameron Irving at 19. I think Shelton has the chance to be a Haloti Ngata type of player. Iriving started the season as a highly rated LT prospect for Florida State. When their Center was injured for the year he move inside and has played his way to a top prospect at that position. He could play at the RT immediately. He is superior to any of the team's #2 Center options and he might eventually be able to replace Joe Thomas when that becomes necessary.

I would go OL, DL, WR, RB.

I agree, we get a decent NT to go along with a RT/C for future use, since Mack may not be back after next yr.

+ 2 on that. The "infamous" Mel Kiper has us taking Danny Shelton (DL) first and then Ereck Flowers (OL):

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...b7-de0332395dd8

This seems like the best in terms of team need and etc. Second round, we find a tall/lengthy WR.

All JMO

I would love to have Shelton. He will not be available with the picks we currently own.

You're essentially declaring Shelton a top ten pick if you're stating he will be off the board when the Browns pick a 12. As desirable as he is I think with the available high grade pass rushes, the top QBs, WRs and Leonard Williams he has a a good chance of being available at 12. If the Browns get cute and wait he is likely gone by the #19 slot.

I think he is 100% a top ten pick. I don't see how he gets past the Giants at pick nine. The Falcons (pick right), Bears (pick seven), and Washington (pick five) could all reasonably pick him as well.

Frankly, I would not be upset if we drafted any position other than RB.

We need some quality starters and depth on this team. The team's glaring weakness is the quality of our backups, especially on the OL and the DL-LB rotations on defense.

We didn't have Gordon for most of the season but Miles Austin did a fine job without him. We didn't win a game after he went down - not a single one.

I am of a similar mindset, although I would say that we don't need to draft an offensive linemen or a player in the secondary in the first round. Any other positions and I am good.

(I know Justin Gilbert was terrible, I just can't see us investing another first round pick in a corner. That is unless we pull an Alphonso Smith on Gilbert.)

The possible permutations of the draft are so large I maintain there is a good possibility that Shelton could be there at 12. You have to factor in free agency which throws a number of unaccounted for variables into the mix.

Just for grins lets take the teams you mentioned.

Washington has some major issues with their secondary this might Lead them to consider Landon Collins or a Cornerback as attractive candidates in round 1.

The Giants are the most probable of the three to take a DT early. However they do have needs at the DE and OT that might have them looking hard at those positions early.

Chicago's pass rush is non-existant. The marquee prospects at the DE position will be hard to ignore. I doubt that take a linebacker early but this isn't a great draft for OLB so if they want to begin re-tooling there they probably need to do it with a high draft pick.

Atlanta doesn't seem to have even on decent pass rusher, at least the Browns have Kruger. I don't see them waiting around for a day two guy for answer there.

Look, I'm in no way saying that Shelton won't go in the top ten. He is a exceptional prospect. I am saying its far from a certainty that he's off the board at 12.

But if he's gone I think Eddie Goldman or Malcom Brown would be acceptable alternatives. Maybe one of those at #19 and address another need (OL) at #12.

Shelton is for sure a top ten talent. I hope he is there when we pick. He will not be.

(Side note: there is a 0% chance Landon Collins goes in the top ten.)

The beauty of it is that we will know at the end of April.

For the record I'm not marketing Collins just seems that he's been given frequent mention as the #1 SS prospect.

Cleveland Trades #12, #19, and a 4th to Washington for #6 and a 5th.

1st Round #6: QB Jameis Winston, Florida State
2nd Round #11: NT Jordan Phillips, Oklahoma
3rd Round #13: WR Rashad Greene, Florida State
4th Round #16: OLB Nate Orchard, Utah
5th Round #5: OL Max Garcia, Florida
5th Round #11: TE Jeff Heuerman, Ohio State
6th Round #13: DE Corey Crawford, Clemson
6th Round #26: K Michael Hunnicutt, Oklahoma
7th Round #12: S Isaiah Johnson, Georgia Tech

The Draft "Value Chart" lists 12 and 19 as valued between 4 and 5, and while it's obviously just a guideline (so stop yelling at me), so the overpayment, plus the swapping of a 4th for a 5th is a reasonable price..

Especially for a team like Washington that needs to make up a lot of picks.. This allows us to jump NYJ if Winston falls. (No I don't think he will)

We don't have a lot of glaring holes that we've been used to. There are places that need upgraded. Places that could be upgraded. I would really enjoy going hard after some people in FA. Shoring up certain positions. Allowing us to be able to just draft whatever we want when our pick comes up..

I don't see the Browns getting a difference maker at QB this off season. Retain Hoyer and add Erving who solves several problems on the OL. The remaining, more pressing priorities are stopping the run and pressuring the QB. In my opinion this draft helps the team do that.

Round 1 Pick 12: Danny Shelton, DT
Round 1 Pick 19: Cameron Erving, C/RT/LT
Round 2 Pick 11: Owamagbe Odighizuwa, DE
Round 3 Pick 13: Justin Hardy, WR,
Round 4 Pick 12: Jeff Heuerman, TE,
Round 4 Pick 16: Ben Heeney, ILB
Round 5 Pick 11: Anthony Chickillo, DE
Round 6 Pick 13: Rakeem Nunez-Roches, DL
Round 6 Pick 26: Josh Shaw, DB
Round 7 Pick 12: Andre Davis, WR