DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns parting ways with OC Kyle Shanahan and QB coach Dowell Loggains

This coming from guys who worked under Dan Snyder? You've got to be kidding...

If, and I say IF, the FO made the call on starting Manziel for the Cinci game, I have zero problem with it. By that game, playoff possibilities were pretty much gone and I would expect the FO (and indeed, a lot of us) wanted to see what Manziel could do at that stage. Hoyer had played himself out of a starting role by then...

Bill Callahan is another name. Last year Browns and Ravens wanted to hire him as their OC but Jerry Jones would not give permission.

Gosselin: Cowboys made Bill Callahan a s...y Rick Gosselin

Losers mentality.

Be the OC that wins HERE. And you can have any job you want.

I believe the coaches wanted Hoyer to start the entire season.

I also believe that they were completely fed up with Hoyer messing the bed by the end of that Indy game.

The coaches (unlike us fans) likely did know that Manziel wasn't working hard enough to learn the playbook and just didn't have the offense down well enough. However, trotting Hoyer out again would have been just as bad.

I think after the defense did everything in that Indy game that it is comical that you put it that we lost by 1 point as a benefit to Hoyer when the defense scored most of the points and left Hoyer with many more opportunities that he failed.

I liked Hoyer. I wanted him to finish the year out until he went into a QB death spiral.

Consider this item. Hoyer's 4 game stretch was arguably the worst 4 games in a row for a starting Brown's QB in team history.

4 games, 74/150 49%, 980yds 1-TD 8-INT 50.4QBrating 6.5-YPA

Never a dull moment here in Cleveland. Sounds like Kyle really wanted to split which is up for speculation I know... but not good either way.

I think we should pay Joe Thomas a certain amount for every offensive system he has, and continuously will have to learn.

I have always liked Callahan though he does run the Mangini-style power blocking scheme. It'd be another shift there, but he's a good coach.

So ESPNs "Around the Horn" panel just all lit into the Browns...

It's all their fault..

And has nothing to do with Kyle.

Cool.

Shanny Jr. tried to ramrod an offense system that the Brown's talent pool couldn't come close to executing. Shows an arrogant disregard on what's best for the team. He may have a system that works but not with the talent we have in place on offense.

I was looking for a turnover on the offensive side of the coaching staff. So no big surprise to me.

I can not believe how many people actually bought into that coaches getting texts on the sideline crap from La Canfora bwahahaha.

Yeah we all saw the coaches on the phones reading texts during the game..


What a load of BS and the poor battered browns fans ever the ones needing to feel mis-used and abused believe it.

Shanahan left, sorry to see him go, thought he did a pretty good job, but we all knew he was a rental ... good luck to him ... and I hope we can do better than him... Loaggins pfft good riddance...Hoyer's collapse of his mechanics and Manziel's deer in the headlights look tells me how much he did ( or didn't do).

I believe the FO can discuss situations.. I also feel they shouldn't force it on the coaching staff...

It should be left up to the HC and his assistants to play who they feel is the right player..

I was one calling for JM to come in...I'm also disappointed that after his poor play he admitted he didn't give a damn...

Pettine also stated in a presser that he wanted his assistant coaches to have all players ready to step up.. I wonder just how much of this could be put on coaching .

There has to be a protocol put in place in order for the organization to work.. In every work place there are problems with people following chain of commands and personality conflicts.

Once we get a QB winning play=offs here.. this will be all forgotten.. I can't think of one NFL team that runs on all cylinders .. winning or not..it's a game of luck

That sure hurts after such a good start.. And considering the 21 QB's that played ahead of him..

we really need a lot of great QB play to calm things down around here..

I have to add,, Every time I see Shanny... I think of Billy Madison ( Adam Sandler )

of course they did its ESPN after all and its our turn in the barrel... next week it will some other team or person and all the talking heads on ESPN will be told what to say and will all say it ....

We all know if enough people on ESPN say it it must be true.

What to know what every show on ESPN will be talking about... listen to Mike and Mike, whatever they are bagging on you can bet every other host will too.

They work off low hanging fruit and don't have to dig for stories.

The Brown's deserve it all. If a FO chooses experience over potential they have a much better chance in the NFL.

so they should have kept a coach that didn't want to be here? or should they have hired someone else to begin with?

yep they should have kept Shanahan and fired everybody else

You're right. Everyone in the entire media have no clue of anything. History has shown us how sticking up for our FO, our coaching staff and our great players has led us as fans to celebrating our continuity and multiple Super Bowl victories.

Let's be honest here, they've been a lot more accurate than we have, yet people continue to follow the same path.

There are not that many coaches in the NFL. Especially considering that a lot of teams don't even look at college OC's (Even though they should), that looking at someone really doesn't mean a thing.

It means they are on a very short list of candidates you feel worthy of one of the top positions in the NFL. Not much, huh?

All that I can add to this is...

absolutely ESPN has always been about fair and even reporting , and I am not talking about just the browns here, they never slant anything to fit their agenda and the media never lets personal bias creep into their reporting...

No doubt texts were sent to the coaches during the ganme... we all saw it. La Canfora is never wrong and he loves the browns so we know this has to be true.

And those experts from around the horn, I will have to take your word for it that they are experts in the field and in tune with all the goings on in the league, I cant get past that mush mouth guy on the left, I think he is from Denver , the one that writes stuff on a black board that is supposed to be funny... yeah I trust him. I am sure that show it not self serving.

read somewhere that JT might retire after this year, macks last year. he is going to opt out. this could change if we make it into the play off though. jmo.

Pat Shurmur is still getting interviewed for head coaching positions. I think that should prove my point that there is a supply problem in the NFL.

Pointing out a dysfunctional organization is dysfunctional isn't 'hating' or having bias.

Referring to the Browns organization as dysfunctional is being kind ! Was not a Shanny fan as most know .. However , I wish Haslam would return to Tennessee for one full year, and let Farmer and Pettine take a shot all by them selves .. He is hurting his own product ( who would believe that ? )

Agreed and there is not doubt we do have our dysfunctional layers, but claiming text sent to coaches during games is BS and the ESPN good ole boys parroting that same thing show after show after show is not good reporting it's regurgitation and taking, as I said, the low hanging fruit to make stories.

Like I said next week some other team or player will be in the barrel and ESPN will perpetuate their self fulfilling prophecies , if they repeat it enough it must be true... right?

They aren't anti browns they are just anti working for stories. Therein lies my complaint.

I can take any substantiated repooirt about the browns, good or bad, what I cant take is a story that has not veriable basis... shnanhan is gone whY?

Did he want out?

If so why?

Did Pett want him out?

if so why?

Did Famer, did Halsam... if so Why?

Don't just tell me he is leaving and the browns suck... and then go on some half assed tirade that has no substance... dig, work for the story tell me what really happened... not some half cocked crap we get from ESPN.

I have seen nothing from Shanny or Farmer or Pett or Haslam where any reporter has bothered to look for the reasons, or ask why, what happened, only personal conjecture... low hanging fruit.

I can't say it happened, but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

And I find it curious that it was initially reported by the Browns biggest cheerleader.



There are plenty of good journalists there, but I won't argue that statement.



No one would get even vaguely honest answers to those questions. That's why journalists tend to have sources - because the company line is almost always a lie.

The trick is to differentiate whose 'sources' tend to be right.

he Cleveland Browns cleaned out their offensive coaching staff on Thursday, parting ways with offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan and firing quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains. The reasons for the turnover are becoming clearer in the hours since the news broke. At the heart of the controversy is, reportedly, none other than quarterback Johnny Manziel.

Cleveland's front office wanted to make Manziel the team's starting quarterback, according to Pat McManamon of ESPN. Shanahan and Loggains did not believe that they could win with Manziel at quarterback.

The Browns made Manziel their starter in Week 15, a 30-0 loss to the Cincinnati Bengals. Shanahan reportedly felt pressured by the front office to insert Manziel into the starting lineup despite the offensive coordinator's belief that the rookie wasn't ready to handle the job.

Manziel made his second start in Week 16, a 17-13 loss to the Carolina Panthers. He was injured during that game and placed on injured reserve afterwards, ending his season.

Reports of organizational dysfunction also included a report that coaches believed members of the Browns front office were sending text messages to sidelines about personnel during games.

When Jimmy Haslam bought the Browns in October 2012, it was supposed to herald a new era for the team. Haslam even promised to borrow from his management style at his truck stop company, getting out of the way and letting his leadership team do their job.


"We're going to be involved, but involved in the proper way," Haslam acknowledged. "I had five people that reported to me at Pilot Flying J. They're all smarter than I am and they're all better at their role than I am, and we let them do their jobs. On the other hand, we question them, we push them, we challenge them, we hold them accountable."

In hindsight, borrowing an approach from a company that ran afoul of the Feds for bilking clients through an elaborate fuel rebate scam wasn't such a good idea. The Browns under Haslam don't seem to be any better off than they did under the previous regime.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/1/8/7515677/browns-kyle-shanahan-johnny-manziel

Like I said , he needs to go home and stay there for a while , lol

I was looking on Cleveland Browns .com for anything.. There is nothing about Shanny leaving.. I'm like why in the hell can't the Browns Tell us something that is going on..

Found this article ..

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, weary of the disconnect with some in the Browns' front office, sat down with Browns owner Jimmy Haslam this week and asked to be released from his contract, a source told Northeast Ohio Media Group Thursday morning.

Haslam obliged, letting Shanahan off the hook for the final two years of his deal.

The Browns also fired quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains on Thursday, sources confirmed. Fox Sports' Alex Marvez first reported that Loggains had been let go.

As reported Tuesday by NEOMG, Shanahan wanted out of Cleveland primarily because of the friction between some coaches and some members of the front office. Specifically, some coaches felt that their opinions on player evaluations and needs weren't being heard.

Coaches were also upset that a high-ranking member of the Browns front office texted down to the sidelines with opinions on playcalling.

Among other things, Shanahan and other offensive coaches wanted the Browns to sign a veteran quarterback such as Matt Schaub for depth, hoped that the Browns would draft a wide receiver when Josh Gordon was suspended for marijuana use and were dismayed when the team let promising receiver Charles Johnson get away. The Vikings signed Johnson off the Browns practice squad on Sept. 20, and he emerged as a starting receiver in Minnesota.

The Vikings averaged 24 points per game with Johnson in the starting lineup, and Vikings coordinator Norv Turner attributed the spike to Johnson, who caught 19 pass for 328 yards and two TDs in the final six outings. "It created some differences in how people defended us,'' he said. "I think we became a much more efficient offensive football team and put ourselves in position to win games." Turner said.

As for quarterback Johnny Manziel, he was not the primary reason Shanahan wanted out, a source said. Although Shanahan and Loggains both left with doubts about Manziel's ability to succeed, that was not the deciding factor for Shanahan. Moreso, it was the fact he didn't see eye to eye on personnel matters with general manager Ray Farmer and others.

Shanahan interviewed for the Bills head coaching vacancy Thursday morning, and will have a chance to join Seahawks defensive coordinator Dan Quinn as offensive coordinator if Quinn gets the Jets job. Quinn is believed to a frontrunner for that position. Shanahan will also have a chance to join 49ers defensive coordinator Vic Fangio if he gets the head coach job there, or former Browns coach and current Eagles offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur if he gets another head coaching job. Shurmur also interviewed for the Bills' vacancy.

Quinn and Shanahan are very close, sources told Northeast Ohio Media Group. Quinn was a leading candidate for the Browns job last year, but they didn't want to wait for him to play in the Super Bowl before interviewing him a second time. Teams are often reluctant to hire coaches who go deep into the playoffs because of their inability to hire quality assistants so late in the process. But if Quinn can pitch Shanahan as his offensive coordinator to the Jets, it will strengthen his chances of getting the job.

Shanahan will also have a chance to join his father, Mike, who is interviewing with four teams for their head coaching vacancies.

The Browns are now in the market for an offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach, at least. A source said that as of two days day ago, they had not yet reached out to former Patriots offensive coordinator Charlie Weis, despite a report that they have. Weis was most recently coach of the Kansas Jayhawks, but was fired last year.

Some other names that have been mentioned in connection with the Browns job include Raiders quarterbacks coach John DeFilippo, a Youngstown native, Falcons offensive coordinator Dirk Koetter and former Bears coach Marc Trestman.

Shanahan had the offense in the top 10 after five games and top 13 after nine games, when the Browns were 6-3 and all alone in first place. At that point, they were 15th in the NFL with 23.2 points per game. In nine of the Browns' first 11 games, they scored 21 points or more. In the final five games -- all losses -- they averaged 11.4 points per game.

Shanahan was Browns fifth offensive coordinator in as many seasons. The others were Brian Daboll (2010), Shurmer (2011 as well as head coach), Brad Childress (2012), and Norv Turner (2013). Shanahan was dealt a challenging hand this season, including the loss of all three of his Pro Bowlers for much of the season. Gordon was suspended for the first 10 games and was never up to speed when he returned. Center Alex Mack was lost to a broken leg in mid-October and Jordan Cameron missed five games with a concussion. The Browns released starting back Ben Tate in mid-November.

Loggains was best known this season for his colorful post-draft interview about Manziel on ESPN Arkansas radio.

"We're sitting there and they keep showing Johnny on TV and Johnny and I are texting and he shoots me a text and he says, 'I wish you guys would come get me. Hurry up and draft me because I want to be there. I want to wreck this league together,'" Loggains told the station's Bo Mattingly. "When I got that text, I forwarded it to the owner and to the head coach. I'm like 'this guy wants to be here. He wants to be part of it.'

"As soon as that happened, Mr. (Jimmy) Haslam said, 'All right, pull the trigger. We're trading up to go get this guy.'"

A source later said Loggains never meant to make it sound like Haslam made the final call, and Farmer stressed last week in his postseason press conference that Haslam didn't.

Farmer also said that Manziel has the "talent in his body to succeed,'' meaning he might want to give him a chance as the starter next season. But sources close to Manziel feel he's got a long way to go and that having to learn a new offense next year will set him back.

The quarterback situation, which Mike Pettine described as "muddy at best'' will be a huge issue for the Browns new coordinator.

plaindealer

so you think its plausible that coaches read texts during the game and Farmer would send down a play.?

I Just can not see Pett telling Shanny ok the FO wants to run a FOX TROT DOUBLE SLAM TANGO BLAST CODE RED HIGH 17 SLANT or do they just send down do a down and out?

Guess we will have to agree to disagree on that.

yes there are many good journalists, they dig for stories, they confirm sources, they note possible alternatives to the story and WORK to find real answers.

The espn talking heads read from a script,.. listen to them some time ... they will quote the same source over and over and over... I heard every one of them say that the Per La Canfora FO sending texts to coaches on plays... that is regurgitation, parroting not reporting.

Agreed on last point, that is why you dig and talk to both sides and then lay out the answers you get in a concise and logical manner... we all know the truth lies somewhere in the middle and I would like to hear all sides' take on the reasons and draw my own conclusions.

Run. The. Ball. (with the RBs)

I think it's entirely plausible that someone like, say, Haslam would send a message complaining about the playcalling.

It wouldn't even be unprecedented. Al Davis did it for years.

Whether or not it's true, I can't say. But it's not unfathomable.



That was Mary Kay's report, so if that's the case, that's ESPN being dubious with attribution.

They do that with Dan Patrick all the time.

thanks for the find diesel and HB32

Your welcome.. I really hope this org can bring in a better fit.. I really believe winning in the NFL is by getting lucky with picking up of coaches and players.

I read the first 8 pages of this thread and the last page. Couldn't take anymore of the BS!

I am growing to hate the freaking Browns.

Shanny was the best coach I have seen here since Arians. So, what happens.........the FO is so screwed up he wants out.

I like Pettine. I think Haslam has proven to be a liar and a meddling owner. I think Farmer is a jerk who can't evaluate talent and his arrogant butt wants to prove how smart he is. I don't think he is smart.

Unfreakingreal! I am so sick of this crap! We finally get a guy who can design plays and call a good game, and it's such a toxic environment, that he doesn't even want to be here.

That should send a good message to free agents.

God.............it never ends w/this stupid team.

It's really funny to me how Shannahan is now either a bum that nobody liked or "the one that got away", our savior that we let slip through our fingers. Fact is that he did a decent job with some subpar talent but when it counted couldn't get his offense to score enough points.

The one bright spot with having to start over is that next year should be much better on the defensive side of the ball giving the offense more breathing room. This year putting both systems in was bound to be difficult...

Toxic? You mean as toxic as San Fran, Buffalo, Washington, to name only a few. Toxic, dysfunctional...I don't think so. Perhaps I am misunderstanding you...