DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns parting ways with OC Kyle Shanahan and QB coach Dowell Loggains

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but the reigning Super Bowl champions and one Russell Wilson (among others, that's just the most egregious) patently disagree with you.

Kyle Shanahan's departure is an ominous start to 2015 for the Cleveland Browns: Tom Reed analysis

January 08, 2015 at 9:51 PM

BEREA, Ohio – In nine months, the Browns open a regular-season schedule that sees them facing seven of the NFL's top nine defenses from 2014.

They don't have a proven quarterback under contract, a reliable No. 1 receiver who acts like he wants to be here or, after today, an offensive coordinator.

If only Browns owner Jimmy Haslam could convince commissioner Roger Goodell to adapt a FanDuel or Draft Kings approach to the NFL, his franchise would be so far ahead of the game. Because nobody eschews continuity like the Browns.

While General Manager Ray Farmer and coach Mike Pettine remain in place, the offense is starting over again with the departure of coordinator Kyle Shanahan. Haslam let Shanahan out of his contract, allowing him to pursue a head-coaching job or another coordinator's position. Quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains also is gone. He reportedly was fired.

Shanahan wanted out, according to a Northeast Ohio Media Group report, due to friction between coaches and the front office. Some coaches, including Shanahan, believe their voices aren't being heard when it comes to player evaluations and needs. How much of this revolves around management's desire to stick with Johnny Manziel at quarterback is unclear, but it would be naive to think it's not part of the discord.

The No. 22 overall pick played poorly in his two late-season starts and his continued off-field exploits don't reflect a quarterback serious about making changes to his lifestyle.

Shanahan hasn't addressed his decision, and we aren't privy to his thinking. But given the franchise's history of instability and its brutal 2015 slate of opponents coupled with uncertainty at quarterback and tensions inside the facility, you can see how Shanahan might have thought it time to take the evacuation route. He's a good coordinator with options, a 35-year-old assistant who endured one soap opera with Robert Griffin III in Washington and little desire to see how Johnny Drama plays out in Berea.

His departure, for whatever the reason, signals an ominous start to 2015 and continues the turmoil that tainted the end of last season. The Browns (7-9) finished on a five-game losing streak and with questions surrounding Manziel, Josh Gordon and Justin Gilbert regarding their maturity and commitment levels.

Haslam's announcement that Farmer and Pettine would be retained was hailed as a sign of a franchise finally valuing continuity.

"The biggest thing the organization needs is stability and I'm happy to hear we're getting some of that," All Pro left tackle Joe Thomas said after the regular-season finale.

Within two weeks, however, came news of a rift and Shanahan's departure. The offense will start next season playing under its sixth coordinator in as many years. Meanwhile, the Seahawks, Broncos, Niners, Jets, Chiefs, Ravens and Chargers await another Browns offense adjusting to new scheme.

Prior to last season's opener, Thomas spoke of how he yearned for "graduate-level thinking" as it applies to offense instead of being reprogrammed yet again.

"Day One for a new offense is we're going to put in the most basic plays then go out and run them," said Thomas, who believes it takes three to four seasons to master a system. "You can barely start working on technique until halfway into training camp when people start to understand who they're supposed to block.

"You can get to a good-enough level in a year or an off-season, but there are so many fine details on offense that make the difference in one or two plays every week. A lot of times games come down to one or two plays."

Thomas enjoyed playing under Shanahan, who remained committed to the run and made the play-action pass work for a long stretch despite the absence of Gordon to a drug suspension and All Pro center Alex Mack to a broken leg. The Browns scored at least 21 points in nine of their first 11 games.

The attack faltered in December, however, and managed a miserable three points with Manziel as starter for six quarters. There are serious concerns with the offense, but Shanahan wasn't among them. His exit -- even if the zone-blocking scheme remains -- is a damaging one. You can only wonder what Mack, who has an opt-out clause after the upcoming season, must be thinking.

The Browns will maintain consistency on defense with Pettine and coordinator Jim O'Neil making tweaks to it. That unit should only get better in its second year in the scheme.

Pettine did a nice job in his rookie season managing the chaos surrounding Manziel while also showing a three-win improvement. But unless the Browns can find a quarterback and develop an offense against a schedule that doesn't include the NFC South, more change could be on the way.

When the Browns sat 6-3 and ranked 13th in total offense there was a chance they would lose Shanahan at the end of the season. But to see him leave this way, asking out and likely willing to take another coordinator's job, lets you know what he must think of Manziel and the prospect of replacing him.

It's not a good start to the new year for the Browns, and it could get worse.

link

If I'm JT I never play another down for the Browns.

Hold out and demand a trade to a contender. The Browns should oblige him.

j/c

It looks like PFT has confirmed some in the Browns FO was texting down to the sidelines. Now the Browns could be facing possible fines.

I'll link this to the Climate in Berea thread as well, as it might be more fitting in that thread.


Article:

Browns apparently violated electronic devices rule

Posted by Mike Florio on January 9, 2015, 5:28 AM EST
Phone
Prior to the latest NFL non-mutual “mutual parting,” this one involving the Browns and offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, a report emerged that Shanahan’s concerns about the team included a claim that a “high-ranking personnel member texted from the press box to the sidelines about play calls.”

PFT has been unable to determine the identity of the “high-ranking personnel member” (and/or whether that person was in any way influenced by a homeless man), but PFT has confirmed that it happened. Which creates a separate issue for the Browns, because those types of electronic communications are prohibited during games.

“Unless specifically permitted by League rules, the use of cellular phones, smart phones, tablet devices, computers, wearable electronic devices such as Google Glass, and other electronic equipment by coaches, players, and other club personnel is prohibited in club-controlled areas including, but not limited to, sidelines and coaches’ booths,” the league’s electronic devices rule states. “These restrictions apply from ninety (90) minutes prior to kickoff through the end of the game, including halftime. Coaches, players, and other team personnel are permitted to use such electronic devices in the locker room prior to kickoff and are permitted to use League-issued Microsoft Surface tablets throughout game day for viewing coaches’ still photos.”

So the sending and receiving of text messages to the sidelines regarding play calls or anything else during a game violates that rule. In 2006, former Falcons coach Jim Mora was fined $25,000 for using a cell phone during a game.

“Expensive phone call,” Mora said at the time. “Consider that a lesson learned.”

The Falcons and the Buccaneers had been tied late in overtime on December 24, 2005, and Mora made the call to determine how a tie would affect the Falcons’ playoff hopes.

So if that type of communication is prohibited, sending and receiving text messages on the sidelines also is prohibited. The question now becomes how extensively members of the Browns organization not on the sidelines have been communicating electronically with members of the coaching staff, and whether the league will investigate and dole out fines accordingly.

Article

j/c:



https://twitter.com/DawgsByNature

Oh brother...

Memphis, Mary Kay posted an article yesterday with regards to this topic. See my last post for a link.

Both Cavanaugh and DeFilippo would make a very interesting team. Cavanaugh was the OC when the Ravens won their first super bowl. DeFilippo being compared to Gase was mentioned by a few reporters.

If Marrone gets a new HC position, I would think Hackett follows him.

To put a different spin on things, here is this from Lane Adkins of the OBR:

LA - theOBR
‏@LaneAdkins
Shanahan played some media like a fiddle, little did he and same media know the Browns have been working on OC and QB coach spots

Lane Adkins

Now that is interesting.

Very much so, YTown!

It is interesting... I just wish there was some content behind it.

Well, almost immediately after the news broke came other news that the Browns were interested in Weis. That indicates that there may have been a little "looking around" by the Browns.

I would trade him without hesitation if the value received was adequate.

If the Browns were offered two first rounders, I'd take it. I might take quite a bit less. A first rounder and a couple of thirds would do it.

Bone : when you work for a GOOD OLD BOY , you are a yes man and nothing more !

Glazier is gospel. If lancanfora said it then i would believe a word. Now Glazier doesnt post anything he doesnt verify a couple times.

Here's some more from Lane Adkins following up his original comments I posted. Not to revealing, but info nonetheless.

Maybe people will start to understand that you can't simply take every word coming out of Berea as gosoel....they cant telk you what their inner workings/plans are RT @nlprater: @clevstrikesback @laneadkins Also, Pettine said 'Yes.' when asked point-blank if Shanny was going to be retained.

Tweet

LA - theOBR
‏@LaneAdkins
Absolutely @OracleOfParma: @LaneAdkins so I take it that Farmer and Pettine r in agreement with this?

Tweet

This falls in line with Lane Adkin's comments:

I'd say Shanahan isn't the biggest TEAM guy, definitely ME guy RT @nlprater: @laneadkins @clevstrikesback Sometimes a macro level look at things is best. Shanny has done a lot with little and should still be the OC.

Link

And round and round we go.

If he wasn't fired, he was retained, just when he asked to go they let him.

Correct.

What we need is a great coach!

Offensive mind... Shanny's the smartest guy in the room.

He's a coach with issues.

We have enough issues.

27th in the league in scoring. We play to win the game. You win by scoring more than your opponent.

Your argument held water 9 games into the season.

Now, not so much.

I am really not angry with Kyle. Our beloved Browns have shown no real progress since we re-entered the league and proven we can't draft a QB or find a QB period. Every potential "name" coach has avoided us like the plague. Just look at the coaches we have had, who are these guys? though, I do like Pettine. I think Kyle is just reading what is put in front of him, a team with no QB, no stability and nightmarish schedule next season.

I'm of the mind I rather have someone that wants to be here and not always looking over the fence. I just hope the guy we bring in isnt going to change everything again. I think the big thing is getting a QB/QB coach that work well together. Don't matter how genius your playbook is, if your QB can't run it, everyone looks foolish

I always like Michael Jordon's response....There maybe no "I" in team, but there is "I" in win!!!! LOL!

That's a losers mentality..

Why stay here when its ganna be difficult..

If you succeed HERE as an OC.. You can have any job you want..

Cleveland Browns Fire The Guy Who Convinced Them To Draft Johnny Manziel


Business Insider
By Tony Manfred January 8, 2015 11:26 AM


For the second-straight year, the Cleveland Browns started the offseason with some unexpected upheaval.

Offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan and quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains are leaving the team, according to Alex Marvez of Fox Sports and Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com.

Marvez reports that Shanahan quit while Loggains was fired.

The team hired Shanahan 11 months ago after a tumultous offseason that saw the coach, GM, and team CEO all get fired. He'll now pursue a head coaching job after he "asked for and was granted his release" from his Browns contract.

Loggains has been in Johnny Manziel's corner all year long. In fact, he played a key part in bringing him to Cleveland. On draft night, Manziel sent Loggains a text message saying "Hurry up and draft me."

Loggains used it to convince the team to draft him, he told ESPN radio:

"When I got that text, I forwarded it to the owner (Jimmy Haslam) and to the head coach (Mike Pettine). I'm like, 'This guy wants to be here. He wants to be part of it.' As soon as that happened, Mr. Haslam said, 'Pull the trigger. We're trading up to go get this guy.'"

The Browns picked Manziel at No. 22 overall.

After Manziel lost the starting job to Brian Hoyer in training camp, Loggains stood by him. He told Cleveland.com in September:

"There's a reason why he's a first-round pick. We're excited to work with that skillset he has. I'm not going to make projections. I'm not much into hypotheticals, but I'm pleased with where he's at right now. I think he needs to continue to get better, and I think if he does, he's got talent."

According to CBS's Pete Prisco, Loggains wanted Manziel to start from the beginning.

Manziel's season ended poorly. He didn't make it onto the field as a starter until Week 15, when he played so poorly in a loss to the Bengals that the NFL world ripped him to shreds. The next week he suffered a hamstring injury that ended his season.

At one point this season the Browns were 7-4 and looked to be moving forward as a franchise. Now it's mid-January, and the team is once again in turmoil.

Link

Ray Farmer was the point man on scouting Johnny Manziel during the college football season before we ever hired wild man Loggains.

If Farmer let himself get rail-roaded by a coach who was excited about a prospect, then he isn't the GM we hope him to be.

I doubt it was Haslam. MIGHT be Farmer, he seems the type. But it was probably one of Farmers henchmen under orders from his Farmer. Farmer seems just arrogant enough to think he's smarter than a coordinator. Either way, Kyle Shanahan showed good sense getting the hell out of here. It's hard enough coaching a team with no quarterback, no WR help, a history of losing that goes back decades all while trying to install a new and complicated system. But to have some idiot calling down DURING games second guessing you? Say what you will, think what you will, he was RIGHT to leave. And I feel sorry for the unlucky sap dumb enough to take over the job for one season.

This time next year, we'll be looking for a new GM and coaching staff. Again. Think not? Well, how good will we play with a brand new offense, no quarterback, meathead as our only weapon, and a pitiful defense? Oh, and a much tougher schedule because we won't be playing the NFC south again?
3-13? 4-12? Think Haslam will abide a return to that?
I don't. Unless Pettine pulls out a miracle of EPIC nature? He's toast. And unless Farmer gets his head out of his ass and actually produces some ON THE FIELD players this draft, he's toast too. I won't shed a tear. The 2014 draft was pathetic. I see no reason to believe the 2015 draft won't be more of the same.

they fired the homeless guy?

Typical corporate America.
Heartless bastiges.

You have to remember that we still have a FA period and a draft to add more talent. We actually could be better in 2015. One could hope!!

The more I hear abut Loggains, the more it looks like he was less of a coach and more someone who was enamored by JM's celebrity and wanted to be part of his entourage. And the more I think about it.. just what did Loggaines actually DO while he was here?

If there was some friction between Shanny and Hoyer because Hoyer was a little more independent than he cared for, I cant imagine Loggains having anything to offer him (Hoyer). Throw in the comment about Loggains wanting JM to start all along?

Now look at how unprepared Manziel was in his first 2 starts. While disappointing, I think it could be understandable to say he was simply overwhelmed. But then we find out through his own admission that he didn't take things seriously all season! Seems like Loggains had a lot of idle time on his hands.

So basically I'm not sad to see him go in the least bit.

Bonus for Manziel though... since he didn't bother to put in much effort to prepare and learn this offense, he'll still be pretty much a blank page for the new one!

I like the post. It really does ask the question: "What use was Loggains?"

But htis one, I simply couldn't pass up.




I wish he'd stop acting like a 'blank page' in his off-hours, too.

Youth- it's wasted on the young.

There will be no talk like that. We just lost the greatest OC in the history of the NFL and are the least talented team in the league, we'll be lucky to win a game!

#purplefont

Oh the Drama, Look the QB coach needed to go. No if's ands or buts. I hate to see us switch OC's yet again but Shanny was a me,me, me guy not a we, we, we type of guy which will not fly anymore in Cleveland.