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Haslam gives me a Jerry Jones vibe. So I think we're screwed.
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You have to remember that we still have a FA period and a draft to add more talent. We actually could be better in 2015. One could hope!! There will be no talk like that. We just lost the greatest OC in the history of the NFL and are the least talented team in the league, we'll be lucky to win a game! #purplefont #thumbsup
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Haslam gives me a Jerry Jones vibe. So I think we're screwed. You realize that the Cowboys are in the playoffs because Jerry listened to his draftniks and didn't draft Manziel but drafted Zach Martin instead.
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Haslam gives me a Jerry Jones vibe. So I think we're screwed. You realize that the Cowboys are in the playoffs because Jerry listened to his draftniks and didn't draft Manziel but drafted Zach Martin instead. I dont like jery Jones.. If he shook my hand i would count my fingers afterward, but he has FINALLY learned he is not the most NFL smart person in the room , his GM title notwithstanding. His willingness to reign himself in has allowed the' boys to be more succesful draft wise. lets hope Haslam learns this soon.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Oh the Drama, Look the QB coach needed to go. No if's ands or buts. I hate to see us switch OC's yet again but Shanny was a me,me, me guy not a we, we, we type of guy which will not fly anymore in Cleveland. Not responding to you, but a general comment about these type of posts. I always wonder why most here have a tendency to talk crap and make stuff up about players or coaches when they leave. I haven't heard a lot of the stuff that is said here, except here and it is treated like it is gospel. There are conflicts in most jobs, and most people have no choice but to deal with it. If you have a chance to leave what you feel is a bad situation you should be able to. It is not like he is bad mouthing the team, city, or fans as he is leaving. The same thing, except maybe worse, happened when Trich was traded. Again he was attacked like he did something wrong. He wasn't any good, but he wasn't a bad guy while he was here. There is a herd mentality to be overprotective when they are on the team, but then be treated like dirt when they leave. I just don't get it.
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So the spin is that Manziel was drafted by the QB coach and Shanny is a "me" person and the Browns ownership and FO are squeaky clean.
This team is disgusting.
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So the spin is that Manziel was drafted by the QB coach and Shanny is a "me" person and the Browns ownership and FO are squeaky clean.
This team is disgusting. Who is doing that spin? The team? Or the media and us goofs on a message board? The team very well may be disgusting, but I don't see the spin as coming from the team. Maybe I'm missing something there?
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You are right in that I am speculating.
Certainly, the board members are spinning it. And it rather obvious that the media is spinning it. I am speculating that the media is getting inside information from the team.
I can't prove that, just like others can't prove that the QB coach drafted Manziel. And if he REALLY did draft Manziel, what does that say about the rest of the FO? Does anyone believe Haslam, Farmer, Pettine, and Shanny deferred to a QB coach? I don't.
I am also questioning this Shanny was a "me, me, me" guy. Why? Because he objected to getting texts on what plays to run? LOL.......who wouldn't object? Or, is it because he didn't like to be told who to play? After watching Manziel play, does anyone really question why he would have rather stuck w/Hoyer?
This entire ordeal is not good for Brown's football.
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...he didn't like to be told who to play? I am not taking a position on this issue (or non-issue as it may turn out) as I have zero facts. How many instances; how many games? There is backroom politicking in every organization, including your institution I would expect and I suspect this may be getting blown way out of proportion. I'm willing to let the league investigate this further before forming a final conclusion...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Telling coaches what plays to run and who to play is not against the rules, thus the league investigation has nothing to do w/what I said. Here is a worthy article: Opinions on Johnny Manziel are like, well, you know. Everybody has one. The endless debate over whether Manziel will ever make anything of himself with the Cleveland Browns is tiresome, even to former NFL player Matt Chatham. Everyone with a sliver of football knowledge and an Internet connection to watch game film can form an opinion as to whether Manziel will inject needed life into the Browns organization or be out of the league in a few years. But with offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan and quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains reportedly parting ways over disagreement with the front office over Manziel’s future with the franchise, the Browns should move on from Manziel, Chatham wrote Friday on FootballbyFootball.com. “Football is a trust game,” Chatham writes. “Everybody is dependent upon the guy next to him. And Shanahan and Loggains, the two people in the building most responsible for working alongside (Manziel) throughout this last season, don’t trust him.” http://nesn.com/2015/01/matt-chatham-browns-must-give-up-on-johnny-manziel-if-they-cant-trust-him/
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Teams changes coaches. There was some friction with Shannahan and others apparently with some players, some in the FO and possibly even with Pettine. Personally, I want little passion in a coach. It is a loss but not something we can't overcome. Hell if Manziel's name wasnt involved an OC leaving hardly gets mentioned.
Loved his run designs, some of the best i have seen. I also loved his use of playaction fakes, brilliant. I think his play design was every bit equal to Chud who I put in the highest esteem. Hopefully the coaches that we have on staff can blend some of those features into our next offense.
I think the texting to the field stuff is what ticked off the FO and they came back swinging with the reports that he was shopping his skills elsewhere and it ticked off Pettine. I think there is a classy way to do things, and neither side showed a lot of class in this one. Both seem kinda of petty and it indeed isnt our finest hour.
As for what we do next, I hope we can keep the zone blocking scheme with this OL and much of those run designs. I do prefer a more vertical passing attack however. I like mid to deep receiver routes with the backs and TE's doing the underneath stuff.
We will see how it goes. Hey changing 2 coaches is probably the least change we have had in 30 years during one off season lol.
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Because he objected to getting texts on what plays to run? Then I am either confused as to your point, or I took your statement out of context...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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What are you confused about? It happened. I don't care if we get fined. That is not a big deal.
I am saying how can someone be called a "Me" person because he objects on being told who to play and what plays to be called? Who the hell wouldn't object?
And last year, you were one of the ones railing on Banner and Lombardi because they "allegedly" told the coaching staff to hold players like Little accountable. Yet, this year...you are reserving judgement until the league investigation has concluded. Was there a league investigation last year before you went off?
Man, you guys............
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As always with things like this, I am positive the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
I suspect that Shanny was not easy to work with. This was also reported in Washington. To assume that was different here is likely putting blinders on. He was a Daddy's boy in an environment where he wasn't always getting his way like he was used to. I also feel it wasn't as bad as is being reported and the Browns had every intention of going into next year with him. Not everyone is going to get along in every organization all the time. It's not much different than this board. Lots of humans, lots of different personalities.
But once Shanny wanted out, the Browns didn't want to stick with someone who didn't want to be here. Who would? You add in the fact that he wasn't the easiest person to get along with, and it was an easy decision for the Browns. I read that most of the players aren't shedding any tears over this, including JT and Mack. That carries a lot of weight with me.
Why did Shanny want out? Maybe it was Manziel. Maybe it was texting. Maybe it was meddling. But he certainly took his ball and went home. Instead of rising up to meet the challenge, he folded his tent. That's not a guy I want going to war with me. Especially one who has a documented history of being somewhat a spoiled brat.
In a lot of ways it's not that much different than Manziel. We drafted a spoiled brat and hoped he would change. We hired a spoiled brat OC and hoped he would change.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Yep....it's all Shanny's fault. We'll see how well our new offense will do next year w/out him.
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It seems as though he was difficult and couldn't handle Manziel. Plus you know how Cleveland is in firing coaches and assistants after only one year.
July 4th Fireworks
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And last year, you were one of the ones railing on Banner and Lombardi because they "allegedly" told the coaching staff to hold players like Little accountable. I don't recall "railing" on LomBanner for that specifically, but you are correct in that I couldn't stand their ineptitude...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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So..........he was difficult. Wow!
None of you are addressing whether it is RIGHT OR WRONG for the Browns to be telling the coaches what plays to run and who should run them.
Do you really think that someone in the FO should force the team to play Manziel?
Do you really think they should tell the OC what plays to run DURING the game?
Let's ignore those two issues and let's say that Shanny was difficult, not tough-minded, and pampered. Yeah, that's the ticket.
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Yep....it's all Shanny's fault. We'll see how well our new offense will do next year w/out him. I hope it will be better than 7-9.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Ineptitude? LMAO Gilbert and Manziel vs. trading TRich for a first and Mingo. 
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Do you really think that someone in the FO should force the team to play Manziel? No, but I could see the FO (let's say Farmer) wanting to see whether Manziel is the future QB or if they need to readdress the QB issue. Hoyer, at that time, was performing poorly. As far as suggesting specific plays, we don't know that for a fact, but if true, there is no place for the FO to get that deep into the coaches realm...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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You know, the more I think about this and the more I read, the more I believe that Johnny Manziel is behind this. He might not be aware of it, but I really think he is the reason these things are happening.
I am getting the feeling that Haslam and Farmer want Manziel to be their QB and they will do whatever they have to do in order to make that happen.
Fire coaches? Done
Meddle? Done
Not resigning the most effective qb? Not done, but likely to happen.
Tolerating his poor decision making? Done.
Hope this works out for you guys.
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Mingo actually plays. You would take Gilbert and Manziel over the TRich trade and the drafting of Mingo? Really?
And are you even considering who was available in both drafts when we made all of those picks? What the heck are you laughing at? Seriously?
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Oh the Drama, Look the QB coach needed to go. No if's ands or buts. I hate to see us switch OC's yet again but Shanny was a me,me, me guy not a we, we, we type of guy which will not fly anymore in Cleveland. Wasn't that the problem in Washington with RGIII? I seem to remember friction between the two of them. And also between Mike Shanahan and RG as well.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If Farmer is meddling that is a major concern. It was a major issue with Banner and Lombardi meddling last year.
Farmer has hit it out of the park with some of his additions. Others we will have to wait and see. this will be the year in which we learn a great deal about mr. Farmer.
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I am getting the feeling that Haslam and Farmer want Manziel to be their QB and they will do whatever they have to do in order to make that happen.
I don't believe that there is any question that this is true. As to how far they will go, at some point they will realize whether or not Manziel is the guy...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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There is friction between RGIII and his new coaches.
There is also friction between RGIII and his teammates.
It's the owner who has RGIII's back.
Hmmmmmm.........does that sound familiar? Snyder and RGIII. Haslam and Johnny Drunk.
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You know, the more I think about this and the more I read, the more I believe that Johnny Manziel is behind this. He might not be aware of it, but I really think he is the reason these things are happening.
I am getting the feeling that Haslam and Farmer want Manziel to be their QB and they will do whatever they have to do in order to make that happen.
Fire coaches? Done
Meddle? Done
Not resigning the most effective qb? Not done, but likely to happen.
Tolerating his poor decision making? Done.
Hope this works out for you guys.
I think there is some truth to this. I don't think he's aware, but I think he is a polarizing figure who is potentially causing a divide within the organization. At the same time I've read that the Browns are not hitching their wagons to Manziel and are not counting on him to be the starter. They will look to FA and the draft to bring in someone else at QB. However, I personally think they are hoping Manziel makes some miraculous turnaround, and this could be a source of tension among the staff. There's also an unsubstantiated rumor floating around out there that Manziel's "people" have approached the Browns about being moved. Where there's smoke....
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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You would take Gilbert and Manziel over the TRich trade and the drafting of Mingo? Really? There is no black and white answer. However, Manziel we got for the draft pick (the usage of the pick of course has nothing to do with LomBanner) and the jury is still out on whether or not he was worth the #22. Although I'm not into re-drafts, my choice would have been Garoppolo(sic). Gilbert I still expect in a further season or two, to develop into a top CB - well worth the #8 spot...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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There's also an unsubstantiated rumor floating around out there that Manziel's "people" have approached the Browns about being moved. Where there's smoke.... We'll let Jerry take him off our hands...in return for their late 20's pick of course.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I doubt any team will want Manziel.
I don't think the Browns will find a partner.
If Manziel really does want out, it wouldn't bother me at all if the Browns just cut him. Him and Gordon. It wouldn't be the smartest use of assets, but that would send a message that the culture is indeed changing, and if you aren't on board, adios.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I doubt any team will want Manziel. I don't know whether that is factual or not. Heavens, WE don't even know what we've got with him...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I doubt any team will want Manziel.
I don't think the Browns will find a partner.
If Manziel really does want out, it wouldn't bother me at all if the Browns just cut him. Him and Gordon. It wouldn't be the smartest use of assets, but that would send a message that the culture is indeed changing, and if you aren't on board, adios. I still wonder if JM really wants to play a full season as a starter and if he has the drive to do so. Shoot, he'd probably be happy to be a backup QB in Miami for a few years ... I guess his offseason work will dictate how driven he is..
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." [Mark Twain]
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I doubt any team will want Manziel. I don't know whether that is factual or not. Heavens, WE don't even know what we've got with him... I think we should just his nickname from Johnny Football to Johnny Highball and put a picture of an empty glass on the side of his helmet.
#GMSTRONG
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When I think of Johnny Manziel, I think of Jeff Spicoli ... "I'm so WASTED!". 
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When I think of Johnny Manziel, I think of Jeff Spicoli ... "I'm so WASTED!". I always remember "My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it" Maybe that is what we need to fix the FO!
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." [Mark Twain]
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Haslam gives me a Jerry Jones vibe. So I think we're screwed. You realize that the Cowboys are in the playoffs because Jerry listened to his draftniks and didn't draft Manziel but drafted Zach Martin instead. I dont like jery Jones.. If he shook my hand i would count my fingers afterward, but he has FINALLY learned he is not the most NFL smart person in the room , his GM title notwithstanding. His willingness to reign himself in has allowed the' boys to be more succesful draft wise. lets hope Haslam learns this soon. On this we can agree. It took Jerry quite some time to realize that he shouldn't be meddling with the team. He tried during the last draft and he must have gotten too much resistance and caused him to have an epiphany. I hope that Haslam hasn't had any input, but the suspicion is certainly there. I would feel better about it if Haslam simply wasn't anywhere near the teams operations during the drafting process and all the processes leading up to it.
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I haven't read any of this thread, but has anyone brought up the fact that not only are we losing our offensive coordinator, but likely most of the rest of the offensive staff. Not only will Shanahan want to take some of his guys with him when he leaves, but our new offensive coordinator will want to bring in his own guys as well. Starting over every year is such a disaster. As I was writing this some new quotes from Pettine and Shanahan were released: News of the Browns accepting the resignation of offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan and firing quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains broke Thursday. The team issued a news release about the moves Saturday.
Here it is:
The Browns have accepted offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan’s resignation, coach Mike Pettine announced Saturday.
In addition to Shanahan’s departure, quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains will not be retained.
“After conversations with Kyle this week we’ve determined that it would be in the best interest of the Cleveland Browns that he pursue other opportunities and we have accepted his resignation.” Pettine said. “In Dowell’s case, it was a difficult decision but one that we felt we had to make. We wish them both well. Our focus quickly turns to finding an outstanding coach to lead our offense and I am confident we will bring in highly qualified individuals to help us develop, improve, and achieve the success we are all seeking. I look forward to working with the staff as we go through this process to bring in coaches committed to helping the Cleveland Browns lay a strong foundation to take our offense to a consistently high level in the 2015 season and beyond.”
The Browns finished the regular season ranked 23rd in total offense (324.6 yards per game), 20th in passing offense (216.6) and 17th in rushing offense (108.0).
Shanahan, 35, was hired in February 2014 as Pettine’s first offensive coordinator with the Browns. The 10-year coaching veteran spent the previous four years working as the Redskins’ offensive coordinator under his father, Mike, in Washington. A former wide receiver at Texas, Shanahan spent two seasons as a quality control assistant at Tampa Bay and two seasons as an assistant with the Texans before he was promoted to be Houston’s offensive coordinator in 2008.
“I appreciate the opportunity Mike Pettine, Ray Farmer and Jimmy Haslam gave me to lead the Browns offense in 2014,” Shanahan said. “The Browns organization is committed to improvement and winning. I regret how the inner workings of the organization were represented publicly over the last few days. Ray and Mike both have the work ethic, experience and talent to work together to turn this organization into a winner. In light of the circumstances, I have decided to resign. I’m grateful for my time with the Browns and wish them great success going forward.”
Before his one-year stint with the Browns, Loggains was the Tennessee Titans’ offensive coordinator from 2012-13. A former quarterback at the University of Arkansas, Loggains got his NFL start with the Dallas Cowboys as a scouting assistant before he joined the Titans as a coaching administrative assistant in 2006.
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Shanahans quote makes it sound like he left because of the recent bad press about the dysfunction of the organization.
A very odd quote.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns parting ways with OC Kyle
Shanahan and QB coach Dowell
Loggains
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