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who can we land in FA?
in the great words of Keith Sweat: "noboooodddy"
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We did pretty good last year, why not again I mean we have what most players want $$$$$$ ...
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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who can we land in FA?
in the great words of Keith Sweat: "noboooodddy" Put enough money on the table and players will come. Mario Williams went to freaking Buffalo.
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thats true, but look at how good that defense is. hell, they almost made the playoffs.
you're right about the cash, but man.....it doesn't look good.
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Why doesn't it look good? We signed Dansby and Whitner last year after firing our coach after one season.
You are overreacting.
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thats true, but look at how good that defense is. hell, they almost made the playoffs.
you're right about the cash, but man.....it doesn't look good. Yeah but that defense was not good before he got there. In fact, their run D was terrible. Mario Williams there has really allowed Dareus to blossom and their DL is finally more than just Kyle Williams.
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have you notice that so far our FA is a bunch of guys, while they are productive...the previous teams didn't actually miss them.
Kruger is GOOD, but the ravens don't miss him
Whitner. Des Bryant.
when the oakland raiders don't miss a guy leaving, that brings up question marks to me.
i don't know bro, i see these other teams bring in guys that you just FEEL the impact day one of the season.
we don't ever get guys like that.
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Who says the Raiders don't miss Bryant? You are just making things up at this point. The Ravens replaced Kruger with Dumervil.
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Who says the Raiders don't miss Bryant? You are just making things up at this point. The Ravens replaced Kruger with Dumervil. make things up? sort of like how you think mingo is a good OLB? who says they do? i haven't seen raiders fans complaining about him leaving. or coaches. thats just my observation. i don't make things up.
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i haven't seen raiders fans complaining about him leaving. or coaches. thats just my observation. i don't make things up. Because you frequent those Raider fan boards and blogs so much. . . As far as the Mingo comment; Google ad hominem and/or false attribution.
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Raiders' weakest position might be DT. Of course they miss Bryant.
SF's defense went from giving up 17 points a game to 21 points a game. That's a field goal turned into a touchdown, or basically a key third down stop per game. They went from opponents converting 34% of third downs (6th best in the NFL) in 2013 to opponents converting 43% of third downs (26th in NFL) in 2014. The Browns' opponents converted 45% (31st in the NFL) of third downs in 2013 and 38% (11th in NFL) in 2014. You don't think SF misses Whitner?
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have you notice that so far our FA is a bunch of guys, while they are productive...the previous teams didn't actually miss them.
Kruger is GOOD, but the ravens don't miss him
Whitner. Des Bryant.
when the oakland raiders don't miss a guy leaving, that brings up question marks to me.
i don't know bro, i see these other teams bring in guys that you just FEEL the impact day one of the season.
we don't ever get guys like that. The thing you're missing is these guys were an upgrade. Yea, Browns didn't get the super stud, but super studs want a ring. Now that there is a base established you can continue adding/replacing upgrading the team. All the pieces added were not old salty veterans. This allows you time to build through the draft. In other words, Browns bring in rookies to fill depth creating competition and strength. Other key component is adding pieces that fit a specific scheme. Nice to be able to add DL who play 3-4 instead of trying to convert a 4-3 into 3-4 or visa verse. It is why constant change affects the building process and why it takes 5 years creating a sound team.
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“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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Raiders' weakest position might be DT. Of course they miss Bryant.
SF's defense went from giving up 17 points a game to 21 points a game. That's a field goal turned into a touchdown, or basically a key third down stop per game. They went from opponents converting 34% of third downs (6th best in the NFL) in 2013 to opponents converting 43% of third downs (26th in NFL) in 2014. The Browns' opponents converted 45% (31st in the NFL) of third downs in 2013 and 38% (11th in NFL) in 2014. You don't think SF misses Whitner? so they downgraded simply because they lost whitner? is that what you're saying? he's the SOLE reason for the decline?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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Show some evidence to back up your point instead of just spouting off.
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so let me get thios straight
if a team signs a FA and almost makes the playoffs the FA had a big impact but if a tream loses a FA anf then doesnt make the playoffs that loss has no impact?
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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so let me get thios straight
if a team signs a FA and almost makes the playoffs the FA had a big impact but if a tream loses a FA anf then doesnt make the playoffs that loss has no impact? not really. lets say we sign......a beast RT off a team. our OL is now great, right? if we miss the playoffs, most likely the OL wasn't the issue. if we make the playoffs, it probably still wasn't the reason since our OL was already good. but from THAT position, you see an instant upgrade from performance of the unit, but maybe the not the entire squad. i'm simply saying, especially this year, that our FA's, minus Dansby, didn't made a big enough impact that we notice it. sorry but i saw no upgrade from whitner over ward. i saw no upgrade from des CONSISTENTLY over our other DE's. sure they were technically upgrades, but in the grand scheme of things, what did they really accomplish? kruger finally did was he was brought here to do, with 7 sacks. but compare that to all these other OLB's, who are ask to the same thing as kruger, and well, 7 sacks isn't a lot. some people don't wanna be real with themselves, we haven't seen what a good squad looks like in YEARS on this team. so anybody who plays remotely better than whoever they replaced will look like a impact player, when in reality, they aren't. thats just my opinion.
Last edited by Swish; 01/21/15 01:48 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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Guys, we need to be more real with ourselves, then we will know these things.
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Guys, we need to be more real with ourselves, then we will know these things. you enjoying yourself?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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Swish,
What Browns lacked is quality depth. As more starters dropped off because of injuries less qualified people were put in place. Browns also faced the tougher part of their schedule.
Browns depth is not good enough to beat most of the starters now or in the future. This is the root of the problem. Starters today become backups tomorrow. In order for backups to remain, they need to keep beating the new guys. If new guys can't beat backups, GM isn't doing his job.
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Guys, we need to be more real with ourselves, then we will know these things. you enjoying yourself? I am. It is a beautiful day.
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Guys, we need to be more real with ourselves, then we will know these things. you enjoying yourself? I am. It is a beautiful day. awesome. good to know.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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Swish,
What Browns lacked is quality depth. As more starters dropped off because of injuries less qualified people were put in place. Browns also faced the tougher part of their schedule.
Browns depth is not good enough to beat most of the starters now or in the future. This is the root of the problem. Starters today become backups tomorrow. In order for backups to remain, they need to keep beating the new guys. If new guys can't beat backups, GM isn't doing his job.
i agree with that, but a lot of our starters can't beat other starters, so what do we really expect from the back ups?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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i agree with that, but a lot of our starters can't beat other starters, so what do we really expect from the back ups?
Lot of Pro Bowlers for a 7-9 team. It takes time going from 4, 5, 7, and above number of wins. This isn't fantasy football. It is all about getting the right mix. Farmer needs a year maybe two before we see it bear fruit.
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Raiders' weakest position might be DT. Of course they miss Bryant.
SF's defense went from giving up 17 points a game to 21 points a game. That's a field goal turned into a touchdown, or basically a key third down stop per game. They went from opponents converting 34% of third downs (6th best in the NFL) in 2013 to opponents converting 43% of third downs (26th in NFL) in 2014. The Browns' opponents converted 45% (31st in the NFL) of third downs in 2013 and 38% (11th in NFL) in 2014. You don't think SF misses Whitner? so they downgraded simply because they lost whitner? is that what you're saying? he's the SOLE reason for the decline? I didn't say that. But I can say that their most significant difference in personnel and in scheme is Whitner. Aldon Smith being out half the year didn't help, but going from a Pro Bowl safety to an old guy the Colts didn't even want anymore significantly contributed to that decline. When you add in that our defense showed an improvement similar to their decline... well there's a lot of correlation there to help imply at least partial causation. Saying SF "didn't miss Whitner" at all doesn't seem to be founded in facts. I'm providing some facts suggesting the contrary because I can't think of something better than facts to give agreement or disagreement to the claim.
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i agree with that, but a lot of our starters can't beat other starters, so what do we really expect from the back ups?
Lot of Pro Bowlers for a 7-9 team. It takes time going from 4, 5, 7, and above number of wins. This isn't fantasy football. It is all about getting the right mix. Farmer needs a year maybe two before we see it bear fruit. we had more pro bowlers when we was 4-12
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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Raiders' weakest position might be DT. Of course they miss Bryant.
SF's defense went from giving up 17 points a game to 21 points a game. That's a field goal turned into a touchdown, or basically a key third down stop per game. They went from opponents converting 34% of third downs (6th best in the NFL) in 2013 to opponents converting 43% of third downs (26th in NFL) in 2014. The Browns' opponents converted 45% (31st in the NFL) of third downs in 2013 and 38% (11th in NFL) in 2014. You don't think SF misses Whitner? so they downgraded simply because they lost whitner? is that what you're saying? he's the SOLE reason for the decline? I didn't say that. But I can say that their most significant difference in personnel and in scheme is Whitner. Aldon Smith being out half the year didn't help, but going from a Pro Bowl safety to an old guy the Colts didn't even want anymore significantly contributed to that decline. When you add in that our defense showed an improvement similar to their decline... well there's a lot of correlation there to help imply at least partial causation. Saying SF "didn't miss Whitner" at all doesn't seem to be founded in facts. I'm providing some facts suggesting the contrary because I can't think of something better than facts to give agreement or disagreement to the claim. i understand thanks.
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I think a lot of the answers are more about who fits where.
I see an ongoing battle on this board about who is the better S, Ward or Whitner. To me simplifying it to that degree is a nonsensical debate. Each has their strong suits and are talented. The real question is whish S is better "for us".
And as far as the FA market goes, it's great to acquire upgrades to fit your scheme. ie... I believe that makes Whitner and upgrade. Being better in coverage makes him a better fit for the style of S Pettine wants. Different D's require differing styles of players.
The main problem I see us having is the type of "high dollar/huge impact" FA's aren't going to seal the deal for us. We aren't "one or two players away from greatness". I'd love to see us sign that type of player when the time comes that such a player or two would put us over the top.
Right now those type of investments would create a great highlight reel but little more. I'll use Joe Thomas as an example. You can have a great talent like JT. An annual pro bowler. His job is to protect your QB's blind side. But if you never get a quality QB who can produce, how does Joes value equate to your team?
Now don't get me wrong, I wanted him drafted, I own his jersey and want him to retire as a Brown. It's no fault of his that year after year and regime after regime has thus far failed miserably at addressing the QB situation. But let me tell you right now, if we had a great franchise QB ala Aaron Rodgers, JT would be worth his weight in gold.
And so would those "high dollar/high impact FA's". But not right now, not yet.
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I think a lot of the answers are more about who fits where.
I see an ongoing battle on this board about who is the better S, Ward or Whitner. To me simplifying it to that degree is a nonsensical debate. Each has their strong suits and are talented. The real question is whish S is better "for us".
And as far as the FA market goes, it's great to acquire upgrades to fit your scheme. ie... I believe that makes Whitner and upgrade. Being better in coverage makes him a better fit for the style of S Pettine wants. Different D's require differing styles of players.
The main problem I see us having is the type of "high dollar/huge impact" FA's aren't going to seal the deal for us. We aren't "one or two players away from greatness". I'd love to see us sign that type of player when the time comes that such a player or two would put us over the top.
Right now those type of investments would create a great highlight reel but little more. I'll use Joe Thomas as an example. You can have a great talent like JT. An annual pro bowler. His job is to protect your QB's blind side. But if you never get a quality QB who can produce, how does Joes value equate to your team?
Now don't get me wrong, I wanted him drafted, I own his jersey and want him to retire as a Brown. It's no fault of his that year after year and regime after regime has thus far failed miserably at addressing the QB situation. But let me tell you right now, if we had a great franchise QB ala Aaron Rodgers, JT would be worth his weight in gold.
And so would those "high dollar/high impact FA's". But not right now, not yet. i understand your point. i guess my only rebuttal to that is....why the hell we gotta wait so long to only be 1-2 players away? nevermind the QB position, we have a hard enough time getting the OTHER positions right.
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I think you can look at the history of first round draft failures to see that we have done very poorly at establishing what could have been a very talented team.
The old saying is that you build through the draft. And that saying is true. We haven't done that. Now people will say, "Oh but we did well in the later rounds and in signing UDFA's". The problem being, that's not where the top flight talent is by and large.
When you consistently miss on the cream of the crop in draft classes, it's nearly impossible to build a team with the talented needed to contend. It just is.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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The Steelers, Ravens, and Patriots haven't drafted very well the past 5 years.. Maybe hitting on a few picks..
The difference is, they have QBs.
People can try to build the "perfect team" all they want.. You could have 50 Pro Bowlers on your roster.. If you don't have a great.. or even good QB.. It won't matter..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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j/c
I haven't looked over a list or anything, but we might want to keep a eye out on pending offensive FAs from the Raiders. Usually, there are some that eventually come to the team of their old coach, mainly depth guys but sometimes starter worthy as well.
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The Steelers, Ravens, and Patriots haven't drafted very well the past 5 years.. Maybe hitting on a few picks..
The difference is, they have QBs.
People can try to build the "perfect team" all they want.. You could have 50 Pro Bowlers on your roster.. If you don't have a great.. or even good QB.. It won't matter.. ThatGuy, which is needed first the cart or horse? In the end, don't you need both? Farmer made it pretty obvious his goal is not finding the next Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Aaron Rodgers to QB the Browns. He is looking for a second tier guy and surround this guy with talent. That guy could be JFF or someone else. In the end, Browns need more talent.
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The Steelers, Ravens, and Patriots haven't drafted very well the past 5 years.. Maybe hitting on a few picks..
The difference is, they have QBs.
People can try to build the "perfect team" all they want.. You could have 50 Pro Bowlers on your roster.. If you don't have a great.. or even good QB.. It won't matter.. ThatGuy, which is needed first the cart or horse? In the end, don't you need both? Farmer made it pretty obvious his goal is not finding the next Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Aaron Rodgers to QB the Browns. He is looking for a second tier guy and surround this guy with talent. That guy could be JFF or someone else. In the end, Browns need more talent. thats nice in theory, but thats a huge problem. the top tier guys are the ones consistently going to the superbowl. we can't just replicate the seahawks, and even still, Wilson is turning into a elite QB with the rest of them. why settle when you can try getting the best? i don't get it.
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Denver has about as close to a "perfect team" you can have, with Pro Bowl players all over O and D.
The Colts have a few guys here and there.. Beyond TY and their TEs, they're lucky to have picked up Herron and get production.. Defensively, besides Vante Davis, theres no one on that defense that worries me..
Indy beat Denver.. Why?
Peyton Manning sucked.
Andrew Luck was better.
Indy made the AFC Title game because they had Andrew Luck. (IMO) Indy's supporting cast isn't as good as what we currently have..
We can try to build the Seattle model all we want, it still doesn't work if you don't luck into a guy like Russel Wilson..
You win in the NFL because of your QB. If you don't have a QB. You better be looking for one.
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The Raiders have one of the worst rosters in the league (especially on offense). Any player of value to them is already under contract. Here is a list of their free agents. It is not pretty. The best offensive player on the list is probably Darren McFadden and he is not good/always injured. Denarius Moore has shown promise in the past, but is nothing more than an average #2 receiver at this point.
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yeah... that's a yikes. Maybe Wisniewski is the best on the list.
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I don't necessarily disagree with your response to me. I guess my only question is in to regards of how that addresses the subject we were discussing. I actually I feel if you reads my post closely, we agree far more than disagree.
My post was in response to signing big money FA's.
You won't be a quality team until you get your answer at QB, just like you said.
My point was there's no reason to sign huge contract FA players until you're a player or two away from being a SB contender.
So considering that logic, wouldn't you feel I advocate having the answer at QB before going after big money guys in free agency?
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The Raiders have one of the worst rosters in the league (especially on offense). Any player of value to them is already under contract. Here is a list of their free agents. It is not pretty. The best offensive player on the list is probably Darren McFadden and he is not good/always injured. Denarius Moore has shown promise in the past, but is nothing more than an average #2 receiver at this point. Larry Asante!! 
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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