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Patriots took long look at Manziel

A leaked Patriots scouting report on Johnny Manziel resonates with how his season went in Cleveland, while another rookie quarterback rode Tom Brady’s coattails to a Super Bowl.

Steve Doerschuk
CantonRep.com sports writer
Posted Jan. 19, 2015 @ 5:53 pm


While shopping for Tom Brady insurance on their way to another Super Bowl, the New England Patriots did their homework on Johnny Manziel.


“We have a ton of information on all of the players in the draft,” Bill Belichick said in May, by way of avoiding a question about a leaked Patriots’ scouting report on Manziel.


The consensus was that a candid, colorful pre-draft take on “Johnny Football” — posted online by Bro Bible — was authentic. Its contents are striking now that Manziel has been through a stormy rookie year with the Browns, while the Patriots are going to a Super Bowl with Jimmy Garoppolo — drafted 40 spots later than Manziel — as Tom Brady’s only backup.


The report was posted in the language and in-house candor of a scout, with mixed reviews on Manziel’s Texas A&M days.

Some of the good:

“Heisman winner that has a unique skill set and rare production. Size and bulk deficient (but) with good arm strength, good accuracy, outstanding make-miss ability and balance to keep plays alive.


“Very quick release. Ball placement at chin in pocket. High release point. Arm strength and accuracy is consistent on the move. Eyes constantly downfield. Very good feel for pressure.”


Some of the bad:

“Playground style, small frame and ball security are big issues. Constantly carries ball unprotected in one hand, though only one fumble this season.”


Some of the in between:


“First instinct is to bail out of pocket backwards and find room while receivers uncover. Usually gets to third option and takes off.

“Rarely hits the checkdown. Wants the big play. Will make a couple of bone-headed decisions every game, but also makes several game-changing, explosive plays in every exposure.”


The report included separate off-field notes dated August 2013. The earlier entry alluded to Manziel playing 2012 under conduct probation, and said:


“Comes from a big-money family (oil money) in east TX but played HS ball outside of San Antonio. Source at Manning Camp that knows JM well: Nothing but positive things to say, mostly with the vibe of, ‘He’s not doing anything differently than you, I, or anyone else did in college.’ ”


The second entry was more alarming:


“Vibe on this guy keeps getting worse. Support staff members are sick of him and ready for him to go. Described as a cocky, me-guy. Loves football, FBI (football IQ) is high as well.


“Sources say he’s a spoiled brat. They say he was getting on people’s nerves during the ’12 season, but it went to another level after the (Alabama) game. Seems to enjoy putting himself in situations where he knows attention will follow him.”

From the report’s general summary on Manziel:

“Quit going to in-season workouts late in ‘12. Doesn’t study the game. One source said only time he watched film during ’12 was before (Alabama).

“When you talk to him, you’ll like him. Coaches love his tuffs/competes, want to go to war with him, but ‘Johnny will be Johnny’ during the week.


“Knows how to scheme the system, arrogant and full of himself, but he’s not smug to coaches. Loves the spotlight, football is his release, big games don’t scare him.

“Teammates don’t dislike him, but there’s some resentment, more so in the offseason when he isn’t coming to workouts and they are busting their butt.

“Will never take football seriously enough for our coaching staff, he’ll hate meetings, will have to drag him to work out, etc. The definition of the word maintenance.”

On draft day, Manziel was gone to Cleveland seven spots before the Patriots were on the clock at No. 29 overall (they picked Florida defensive end Dominique Easley). Garoppolo, from Eastern Illinois, was New England’s second pick, at No. 62 overall.

“He didn’t play the level of competition of the SEC, but that’s not his fault,” Belichick said after drafting Garoppolo. “He’ll see guys that are a lot bigger, a lot faster, a lot more athletic. The guys in the SEC are going to see that, too.”

As a 2014 NFL rookie, Garoppolo went 19-of-27 (70.4 percent) for 182 yards, with no touchdowns, no interceptions and three sacks. Manziel went 18-of-35 (51.4 percent) for 175 yards, with no TDs, two interceptions and three sacks. Garoppolo led Manziel 101.2-42.0 in passer rating.

Garoppolo is a latter-day Brian Hoyer, “one play away” if anything should happen to Brady. Manziel was Hoyer’s backup in Cleveland prior to being named the starter for Game 14, a 30-0 loss to the Bengals.

A storm arose over the leaked scouting report, which contains the initials “JL,” matching a scout named James Liipfert.

Who from the Patriots would have put it out there? Did another team obtain the report and leak it? Was its release designed to influence Manziel’s draft status?

The storm has shifted. The Browns are deciding what to do with Manziel, given how the events of 2014 resonate on one level or another with so much of that scouting report.


Reach Steve at 330-580-8347 or steve.doerschuk@cantonrep.com
On Twitter: @sdoerschukREP



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Overall that seems like a balanced assessment of Manziel. With the benefit of hindsight I don't think his "brand" is right for the no-nonsense, hard work, blue collar sensibilities of Brown's Nation. The team has to give him this year to see if he can become an NFL Quarterback. If not, then stop the bleeding, cut your losses and move on. In the meantime, I'll say it again. Brian Hoyer makes sense to resign and remain the #1 until Manziel or somebody else takes the job away from him. BTW while we're sorting out the QB situation double down on the run game, stop the run and pressure the opposing QB.

We’ve Obtained Johnny Manziel’s Scouting Report From the New England Patriots

BY J. CAMM / 05.09.14

UPDATE: Last night, Johnny Manziel dropped all the way to the 22nd pick in the 2014 NFL draft, to the surprise of many. As Johnny Football’s stock plummeted before our eyes, a tipster, who is close to BroBible family, contacted us saying that he obtained Johnny Manziel’s scouting report from a New England Patriots employee. He then sent us the PDF file of said scouting report. After vetting the document, and ascertaining that the author of original document is a member of the Patriots organization we feel it is an official New England Patriots document. The report was offered to several other media outlets, but due to our relationship with the source we were given the exclusive.

The Patriots intel doesn’t exactly paint Manziel in a favorable light, knocking his off-the-field work ethic, personal life choices, and although it stops short of calling him a locker room cancer, it says there is resentment from his teammates “in the offseason when he isn’t coming to workouts and they are busting their butt.” The report goes on to question the family he comes from, noting that it’s a family with “outlaw bloodlines,” whatever the hell that means.

The Patriots’ report does, however, praise his size saying that Manziel boasts, “High, knotted calves, with pretty gd. thickness through the thighs and bubble” and that that he has “big hands and feet.”

It’s unclear if similar conclusions were reached by the other 31 NFL teams, but it certainly highlights concerns about the Heisman Trophy winner.

Here are some of the excerpts

On his family:

From the vibe of online articles, father seems a little too involved and overstepping his boundaries.
Vibe on this guy keeps getting worse. Support staff members are sick of him and ready for him to go. Described as a cocky, me-guy.
Loves football, FBI is high as well. Everything has been pretty well-documented in online articles about the kid, but sources say he’s a spoiled brat (grandfather gives him allowance, father bought him luxury car).
Comes from ‘outlaw bloodlines’, mom moved the family to Kerrville to get away from father’s wild family. Father’s family is said to be very shady people, always into something, they are the root of Johnny’s personality.
On his psyche:

Couple of TXTC sources say can’t yell/scream at him or he shuts down; has walked away from Kingsbury in the past.
On his work ethic:

Doesn’t study the game, said to know about 60% of the offense in ’12, never watches film; one source said only time he watched film during ’12 was before ALUN.
Knows how to scheme the system, arrogant and full of himself, but he’s not smug to coaches. Has been like this since Day 1, has never gone to class, goes to beat of own drum, but has ultimate confidence.
On how his teammates view him:

Teammates don’t dislike him, but there’s some resentment, more so in the offseason when he isn’t coming to workouts and they are busting their butt.
The full report is below.

The link to the Patriots scouting reports

http://www.brobible.com/sports/article/johnny-manziel-scouting-report-new-england-patriots/


We’ve Obtained Johnny Manziel’s Scouting Report From the New England Patriots

BY J. CAMM / 05.09.14

We reached out to the Patriots organization but our request for comment was not immediately returned. We also understand that the report has an old Patriots logo. Considering that the document was an ongoing update of Manziel, and created before their logo change, we determined that detail was minor and not something we should base the report’s validity on.

I saw this article yesterday and was really surprised to be quite honest, he doesn't seem like a guy the Patriots would be interested in. Can we still trade him to the Patriots for Garapollo?!

Off the top of my head, Couch and Weeden had better odds to make it at the pro level.

The more I think about our situation the more I agree with your post guard. I'd still like to see us pick up a vet like Mallet if our FO thinks he can be good and let him compete with what we have. Not that it means much, but I know Lombardi liked him.

For starters, I don't think Manziel is guaranteed to start. It may come to pass that way but I've read where that wasn't necessarily the case. Depends on who else they are able to bring in.

And secondly, they invested a lot in Manziel. Why would you expect him not to start? Why would you think that Haslam or Farmer believed they were throwing away the season by starting him?

This is old news. This came out right around draft time.

He knows that. He even cited the dates.

But he still used it to fit his crusade.

A crusade to accomplish what I'm not sure.

I wish they would've taken him... we'd at least would have addressed another position or taken a different Qb like Carr, garrapolo, Teddy or whoever... each who have showed more hope both on and off the field!

JMO

Good read.

Somebody else is seeing what I believed I would see and saw.

Wish they had taken him.

Still want him?

Hell I would take a deflated football for JJO right now. There is no upside to having this clown around. He is a loser who brings WAY too much negative press to this already floundering franchise. Cut him loose. Sign Hoyer. Now.

I agree with this completely.

With his off the field maturity issues, and his poor play late last season I highly doubt anyone in the front office feels confident about Manziel being "the guy" in 2015. I have no doubt that we'll either draft or sign/trade for some competition for him. It should completely shock me if he's 100% the guy going into camp.

You do know we are talking about the Browns, right? It's not like they don't have a history of making stupid football decisions. LOL

he is THE BEST PROSPECT we ever had drafted for QB.
=====================================================

How far back are you going?

Given the "the list" on the t-shirt I would not wear that badge with honor.

The Browns failures are directly related to their failure in drafting quarterbacks.

The Browns have had one truly great quarterback and that was Otto Graham. He just won championships.

I always found it funny that the leaked scouting report was almost a mirror image of my evaluations of Johnny back in dec before the draft.

I still stand by what I said in that Jimmy G. was the best QB of that draft. It's going to kill me when he start to push Brady out and I have to think we could have had him as a second round pick and starting much sooner.

So your only "agenda" is "winning"

However by your own admission, if we bring in basically any QB that isn't Hoyer.. then were set up to fail..

Yeah. Clearly you only have one agenda.

Except they don't believe in Hoyer.

So you have a situation where they don't believe in Hoyer. They may have less belief in Manziel at this point, but he's still more of an unknown than Hoyer. Unknown meaning they aren't sure how good he can be. I think they believe they know what Hoyer is. I don't necessarily agree with that. I've cautioned on here several times that I think we should be careful with labeling Hoyer a closed book.

But I seriously doubt that Haslam and Farmer are purposely planning to have a double digit losing season next year. Or maybe their 5pm meeting tomorrow afternoon is titled "How can we assure that we lose big next year?".

I mean that's basically what you are saying. That they purposely are going to try and lose. Because their agenda is different than yours. They have no interest in winning.

I am of the impression that the FO does not believe in Hoyer. I am basing this on things that I've read and the Browns actions.

Having said that, a report just came out that they've reached out to him to sign an extension. I could not be happier. I am sure he will be told he is competing with Manziel, but there is no way Manziel beats him out.

This is the best possible course of action for the Browns, IMO.

it should be anyone who saw the last 4 games he started. but, apparently that was too long ago for some people to remember.

Hoyer didn't lose his job. He gave it away.

LOL ..goly gee wiz, a leaked smoke screan written report from a cheat of a team. Who cares.

I think the report is unbelievably accurate.

Wonder if it will shut PDR up for a bit?

LOL..........probably not.

It's uncanny the way his year played out when comparing it to the report ... at least in terms of the bad stuff.

Yeah, it's almost like the guy could see into the future.

2015 Free Agent QBs I would be ok with besides Hoyer..

Ryan Mallett
Matt Moore
Christian Ponder
Mark Sanchez (Yes, even Sanchez)

And that doesn't count the continuous rumors around guys still under contract, like Bradford, Foles, Glennon.. etc.

My point was.. You made it seem to me as though in your opinion, if we do ANYTHING beyond bring Hoyer back and IMMEDIATELY name him the starter.. then you feel as though we have a "recipe for losing football"

If Hoyer indeed fetches far too much on the market, I wouldn't mind Ponder as a QB, he actually reminds me of Hoyer only with a little more of a running threat...Its a sad year to upgrade the QB (FA is very weak this for QB, and the draft this year looks incredibly weak as well)

It is the off season but Steve Doerschuk is better than this.

Old news.

I can see Sanchez coming here with Flip's history with him but I'm not sure he's an upgrade from Hoyer. I see all options as more of a lateral move than improvement.

Call it what you want, but at A&M Manziel ran a spread run and gun with receivers running "panic routes". NFL speed negates that kind of offense.

We all viewed BH as a "bridge" qb until we could find our franchise qb. Anyone of those 4 qb's listed would fit that description. However, I always felt mallet had some potential, maybe more than the others. JMO.

That's why JM was viewed as a project. He has a longer learning curve than the others who were drafted in 2014.That is also why the coaches didn't want to play him this year.