DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Jimmy Haslam: Browns have to get a QB in 2015

Now there is one that I admit to never having heard before. Please explain...thanks.

It's gonna look like Gruden came to town with Hoyer, Manziel, Shaw, the new draft pick and the free agent vet we bring in.

Trade Manziel, cut Shaw and get on with it. It's unlikely we find a guy until we tank the season and draft one high next year anyway.

G reatest
O f
A ll
T ime

There is a feeling that you should never take a player in the first couple of rounds with character concerns.

I think the Browns should think about the benefits of such a policy.

It's a good general policy, for sure... but there have been enough "exceptions to the rule" as to render that rule a general guideline.

Michael Irvin
Chris Carter
Ray Lewis
Jamaal Lewis

the list goes on....


IMHO, there are enough "exceptions to the rule" in the NFL to compel even the most hidebound of GM's to occasionally take a flyer on a player with character-related "question marks," if they showed enough potential in college to warrant the risk.

I think that's exactly what tipped the scales in favor of JM, when they pulled the trigger on him at 22 last year. There was always the chance that he could bust... and bust BIG- but we WERE using a pick on him that was gifted to us by IND (...and that's key to my argument here-).

I've often wondered if JM would even be on our roster, had CLE been forced to use one of their official 2014 draft picks on him. I'm leaning towards: "probably not."

For me, this pick has always been a 'calculated gamble, with fingers crossed.' If he booms, it blows us UP as total geniuses... and if he busts, it was a pick that was a 'bonus round' for us anyway, so no biggie.

-------------

I KNOW that QB is the single most important pick a GM can make, but let's look at this scenario "Big Picture Style:"

1. He cost us almost nothing in the draft.
2. He's costing us almost nothing in bucks, with the new Master Agreement.
3. His "boom/bust" potential was virtually 50/50, based upon what we knew at the time.
4. His potential (based on competitiveness with peers)was off the charts.

If I'm Ray Farmer, I'd probably make that pick every draft, given the circumstances at the time.

_________________

JMHO: If the Browns didn't have 'throwaway picks' to play with in 2014, JM might very well be on some other team's roster right now.

The fact that the Browns took a flyer on him doesn't necessarily make them rubes. Sometimes, you gotta swing for the fences in the draft. And this time, the Browns were playing with house money.

Sometimes you win. Sometimes, you lose.

Jury's still out on this one.... but the clock IS ticking....

.02

Cough cough that would be me ^^

Cost us nothing?! He cost a 1st round pick PLUS what it cost to move up. That is a very expensive mistake. I don't believe you should take a player with strong character issues in the first round. PERIOD. Especially not one meant to be the heart and soul of your franchise.

I was so ticked when we took him in the first round. Maybe he will fix his attitude and turn things around but I don't put much faith in party boys doing what is right when they are still young.

And I still contend that he cost us very little, in the grand scheme of things.

Take all emotion out of it... and THINK like a GM might think, on draft day:

You have a pick to spend... a pick you didn't have, if the previous regime hadn't traded with IND for a guy you already didn't value AT ANY LEVEL.

Are you telling me that you WOULDN'T make that move.... with a pick that was a 'bonus drop' in your gift bag?

We spent almost nothing to get this kid on our roster... and we lose almost nothing if he amounts to nothing. You're focusing on the 'aftermarket cost." I'm talking about pre-choice risk/reward GM choice.

Like I said in my initial post:



_____________


I never said he was a 'slam-dunk pick,' a 'reasonably safe' pick, or even 'good' pick. I merely said this:

"Given what our GM had had to work with at draft time, it wasn't a risky pick to make." Nothing more, nothing less.

If you read anything more into my statement.... well, that's on you.

Take a step back- and insert a pantyliner into your underbritches. It ain't the end of the world, no matter how he pans out.



Manziel was an extra pick for the Browns, any way you slice it. If he pans out, it's great. If he doesn't- it's really no great loss.

IMHO, this whole "Manziel: boom or bust?" issue isn't that much of an issue, and here's why:

1. We DON'T have "The Answer" in Hoyer
2. We don't know what we have in JM.
3. We can't predict the future.
4. "The Answer" probably isn't hiding in this year's draft class
5. The Browns are probably 2-3 years away from being relevant anyway, given their current trajectory.


Most probably, the Browns' "answer" at QB is still in college... and we don't even know his name yet.


Long view, Razor. Looooong view. That's all I'm really saying.

p.s. I've enjoyed your posts for years. We just happen to disagree on this one point.

It had to be the one time Jerry Jones actually listened to other people in the room..

We take Bitonio at 26.. Garappolo in the 2nd.. a WR with that 3rd we gave up..

And then when Hoyer falters Garappolo leads us to a playoff spot..

While JM parties it up with allll his people in Texas all year..

Sigh.

I would not consider that pick that way. To me that is like missing twice on picking Richardson. The Browns need their first round picks to play and be contributors. MAYBE a good team like the Patriots can waste a first round pick, but not a team like the Browns.

Wasting any asset is no way to run a business. We wasted a huge asset.

For example, somebody gives me $1,000,000 in cash in exchange for my 2002 Chevy Cavalier. What a great deal, right? I then take the cash and put it in a shredder because my pet rat needs some new shavings to poop and pee on. After the shavings are dirty I throw them out.

Trent Richardson is the Chevy Cavalier. The cash is the first round pick. Manziel is the excrement filled cash shavings.

It doesn't matter how we acquired the first round pick. It was ours, we wasted it on Manziel.

Ah! Gotcha...thanks.

My apologies, Razor. My memory may not be what it used to be...

LOL its all good. It's not like I was the only one who wanted to draft Jimmy. Many of us liked him. I do think I am the only one who thought he was better than ALL the other QB's. I did think TB would end up a good QB and that Blake could end up pretty decent after a few seasons.

Manziel I had rated as a round 2-3 QB with high bust or boom potential. He was like my 5th choice at QB.

Clem I enjoy your posts too mate.

Still a first round pick is a first round pick. It's not a gift or something extra. It's a pick that is very valuable and needs to be a great player. I think you're just too use to our front office blowing pick after pick ...

If only it worked out that way...I would have been jumping for joy on draft day instead of spending yet another draft day pissed off by another bad draft.

You can make 2 arguments on the cost of drafting Manziel.

1 - He cost us trent richardson and a 4th = Not much.

2 - He cost us Kelvin Benjamin or Teddy Bridgewater (Both available at our original draft spot) and a 4th. = a lot

Both of those arguments are true and accurate. It's all about perspective.

And I don't disagree with that at all.., We do need a QB which, if you look at it, is exactly what Haslam is saying,.

He's saying exactly what all of us are saying, we need a QB..

Jimmy can't be held responsible for what came before him.

I repeat, Jimmy is dead on.

Actually, it could be worse. The Browns could find out that Manziel develops a Josh Gordon compulsion for drugs.

It wasn't me, but I don't mind Garoppolo. I actually like Bortles (yeah, I know, bad team) and Derek Carr (yeah, another bad team). These two will be the best of the group and Garoppolo may have a decent shot. Although we know that everything they do in New England will now be under the microscope, it might make it more difficult for him to be developed.

At this point, I don't think that Manziel would ever be cut loose by the Browns simply due to his off-field antics. His ego could be laid waste by simply being relegated to backup-to-the-backup status. He would make the trips with the team knowing that his chances of seeing the field were slim-to-none and that any time he missed or was late to a practice or rehab session, he'd be fined the maximum allowed by the team. He'd get his paycheck but he'd be relegated to little more than ball boy during practices.

I think Garapollo, Carr and Bridgewater are all going to be better than Manziel. how much better I don't know but better.

Except when you consider that Richardson cost us a 4th overall plus 4th, 5th and 7th round selections.

So, then Manziel costs us a 4th overall plus two 4th, a 5th and a 7th round selection. It's not quite RG3, but it is a LOT.

Banner worked the miracle to get a 1st rounder from Indy for Richardson.

Also Mixed Nuts starring Steve Martin

I am concerned he may already have one for alcohol and one for the high of being in limelight

It's possible. Frankly, I just think that he's young and stupid and mostly talentless on an NFL football field.

What makes you either of those things?

Did you know that Teddy's rookie completion percentage is 3rd highest of all time?

What stats does Jimmy G have?

Did you watch Minni's games?

Did you read quotes from Turner, players, and other coaches?

Did you read comments from other experts?

Or, is it just a feel thing?

Bridgewater played:

--without the best RB in the league.

--he had a 6 and 6 record as a starter despite having the worst offensive talent in the league.

--teammates and coaches say he has ice in his veins.

--his best WR for most of the year was Charles Johnson, the same guy we cut during TC.

--his OL was the among the---if not thee---worst in the NFL.

--he led his team downfield during crunch time many times.

I think that the people who are still dissing Teddy are guys who have not watched him play.

Btw-----------what exactly did Jimmy G do ON THE FIELD this year that makes you think he is the best of all the rookie qbs?

Start the spin.............

Thought this basically happened after the Colt game.

Haslam: Kyle, Mike we're still in the playoff hunt and I want you to start Johnny.

Kyle and Mike: (in unison) Are you nuts!?! He is nowhere near ready.

Haslam: Listen boys, I didn't become the CEO of my daddy's company by dumb luck now. I had dinner with Johnny to assess his NFL readiness and he is playing this Sunday. He can't do any worse than Hoyer did last week.

Anyone interested in Sam Bradford? He is due to count 16.6mil against the cap for the rams and they want to redo his contract but if he thinks he can make more on the open market he may balk and fore them to pay him or release him. Granted his health has been a concern with a few fluke injuries but is he worth a shot. Clearly he is better than anything we have had for a long time if healthy. Also i found it interesting that we brought in his QB coach for an interview. Maybe trying to do some fishing about Sam from someone that knows him well?? We need someone else other than Jonny footinmouth and I think hoyer was offend late in season when he was benched for someone that has no passion for the game. I don't think he will resign unless Jonny footinmouth is gone.

Is the Johnny Footinmouth name supposed to be cute?

Anyway, I'd love to have Bradford if you can give me any reasonable assurance that he's not going to miss the entire year or some major part of it.

I don't think you can. so, for me, why waste the money?

Well this is the crux of the matter. It's not his skill level, but rather how healthy can he be through an entire season. Interested...sure. Do we pursue it...probably not.

you mean the guy who can't stay on the field and gets more mystery injuries than even RG3 can pull off?

no thanks.

No.

I wasn't enamored with Teddy from a) his pitiful performance at his "Pro Day", and b) his reported small hands.

The hands part doesn't play well when you go to Green Bay in January (and have to use the overinflated balls that AR prefers).

Did you mean to post that in purple?

People conveniently forget that Hoyer had a streak of 1 TD and 8 INT over the course of 5 or 6 games following the Colts game. He was not only not doing anything to help us win games, he was costing us games.

Manziel had a reputation of being a better player on the field than in practice, (in college) and Hoyer was giving us nothing, so why not take a chance after we fell completely out of playoff contention following the Colts game. (even though we had a minuscule chance at the playoffs, the playoffs really were out of reach once we lost to the Colts) Anyway, I can see the logic of seeing if they might catch lightning in a bottle at that point. Unfortunately Manziel turned out to not be the answer. It was still a chance worth taking.

the analogy of the week...

If Bradford wasn't a walking trip to the IR, he might be worth a chance. However, if he weren't a walking trip to the IR, he would never become available.

Bradford has talent, but what would he cost? If we were to trade for him, what would we have to give up in draft picks? If we trade fr him, what kind of deal do you re-sign him to? It would make little sense to trade for a QB only to have him walk in a year. If he becomes a free agent, what kind of contract do you offer him? How many years do you give a guy who cannot stay on the field?

Bradford is a guy who sounds like a decent enough idea, until what it would take to bring him in comes into consideration.

You sure that you didn't mean "the analogy of the weak"?