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I was a supporter of Manziel but I have to step off now.


Every single time I see a photo of him that isn't from either draft day or game day, the guy looks high as a kite. When I stop and ask myself how could he consistently look high in photos. The answer is clear and that is, because he IS high as a kite.

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Johnny Owl Eyes.

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Inside Manziel's rocky rookie season

BEREA, Ohio -- The name on the card that night in May seemed to draw as much anxiety as it did excitement.

Johnny Manziel, Quarterback, Texas A&M.

The former Heisman Trophy winner had been passed over 21 times, prompting a text from Manziel to then-Browns quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains that he wanted to "wreck this league" in Cleveland. The words were actually more R-rated, but the implication was clear.

Twitter erupted at the selection. A Cleveland radio host cheered and screamed openly on air. Manziel gave his "money" sign as he walked onstage to greet Roger Goodell.

By season's end, cheering had turned to frustration and anger as Manziel struggled mightily in almost six quarters as a starter, then was fined for being AWOL the final Saturday of the season. Offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan resigned with two years left on his contract. Loggains was fired. The Browns openly discussed Manziel's viability as the franchise's quarterback at a wide-ranging postseason staff meeting about the roster. And at least a couple of Manziel's teammates were joking his text should have read "wreck this team."

Now the Browns point to 2015 with a talented but misguided quarterback who must repair the wreckage done in his own locker room.

Interviews by ESPN.com with nearly 20 Browns sources, both on the record and on condition of anonymity, along with several NFL personnel sources reveal the Manziel-related problems run deep.

Those who spoke talked of a year-long pattern that showed a lack of commitment and preparation, a failure to be ready when given a chance in his first start against Cincinnati and a continued commitment to nightlife, which affected his preparation and work while in the team facility.

As one player put it, Manziel throughout the entire 2014 season was a "100 percent joke."

Some said it should not have been a surprise, that the Browns were well aware what they were getting.

"During the draft process, not one person interviewed by the team said he was going to grow up," said one source directly involved in the drafting of Manziel. "You can't blame Johnny. This is who he is. The team knew that."

ESPN.com requested to interview coach Mike Pettine or general manager Ray Farmer about Manziel, and made several attempts to reach Manziel through intermediaries. The Browns and a Manziel rep from LRMR Management referred specific questions about the quarterback to the interviews all parties gave after the season.

"I need to start doing every single thing and everything the right way and if I don't I'm going to be exposed," Manziel said shortly after the season.

The theme from Pettine and Farmer in postseason news conferences was blunt: It's time for Manziel's actions to back up his words. Farmer did not mention anything from 2014 when asked what made him believe Manziel can succeed. His belief, he said, is based on "everything he did in three years when he was in college."

People close to Manziel say he's a well-intentioned 22-year-old who wants to be great but needed an NFL season to realize natural ability isn't enough.

Some teammates doubt he can ever change. Others are hopeful.

"People make mistakes," cornerback Joe Haden said. "I'm all about giving second chances."

Words and actions

The sequence reeked of contradiction during the last week of the season.

On that Tuesday, Manziel stood in front of about 20 media members and outlined his plan to become the Browns' answer at quarterback. He wanted to be "the guy" for Cleveland, he said, and would do so by taking his job more seriously. He was more animated than he'd been all year, eager to declare his intentions.

Four days later, stories in the Browns' facility began to circulate. Manziel was not present the morning before the season finale. Team security drove to Manziel's downtown home to check on him. The Browns were packing up for the season finale at Baltimore on Dec. 28.

Two team sources said security found a player who they felt clearly had partied hard the night before. One source used the words "drunk off his a--."

The official word was that Manziel was "late," but players said they didn't see Manziel until the Browns' chartered airplane prepared to take off in the afternoon, that he was not present all morning. The team fined Manziel for missing treatment on his injured hamstring, then had him sit in the locker room during the season finale in Baltimore.

"Johnny's his own worst enemy," one source said.

Monday after the season, Manziel had another news conference, saying many of the same things from six days earlier -- actions must support words. That night he was featured in Instagram photos on Miami Beach, a few days later at a club in Houston and a few days after that on a mountain in Aspen, Colorado.

"I brought this on myself," Manziel said the day after the Baltimore game. "I brought these cameras and all these people that are in this locker room right now and I don't think it's fair to myself, I don't think it's fair to anybody in this locker room the distractions I've brought at points in time."

None of his teammates talked about disliking Manziel personally. In fact, a "good guy" theme is prevalent with him. Some players vouch for his work ethic. Left guard Joel Bitonio said "you can tell" Manziel wants to be good and "works his tail off" in the weight room.

But several Browns sources say privately Manziel's words to the media -- he's not the same Johnny Football, he's learned how to be a pro -- simply didn't always match his work.

"He's competitive," said tight end Jordan Cameron, a free agent. "So I'm hoping that competitive nature will get him past all the other stuff. Hopefully he does, and hopefully he figures it out."

The Browns have an honor system with fining players for tardiness to team activities -- $250 for first offense, $500 for second, etc. The money can go to charity.

It's uncertain how much coaches collected from Manziel, but one source said Manziel was late often enough that it was never a surprise when he was.

One Browns staffer said he believed Manziel didn't get tough love when attention to detail wasn't there, that the team did not always hold him accountable when he was late.

"He's a kid that I think wants to do well but needs to be shown how, and he didn't always get that help, in my opinion," one Browns staffer said.

Manziel's on-field results were, at best, mixed.

In his first game, in Buffalo in relief of a struggling Brian Hoyer, he led a touchdown drive on his first possession.

But readiness became an issue once Manziel got the starting job the following week. Several sources said Manziel either didn't know the plays in the huddle or didn't call them correctly. The Browns tried to get him comfortable by using shotgun and pistol formations on about 80 percent of his downs and by simplifying the offense.

But more than once, teammates corrected the play-call in the huddle, or headed to the line hoping things would work because the call was wrong. Sometimes, the offense would get lined up wrong because Manziel forgot to read the whole play or got the verbiage wrong (saying "left" instead of "right," for example).

Manziel's stat line from his first start: 10-of-18 passing for 80 yards, two interceptions and a 1.0 QBR.

It's not easy for rookies to learn plays, and some struggle. Shanahan's system was by no means simple. Some Browns coaches felt Manziel would have transitioned better with a redshirt season.

When asked recently about rookies transitioning to the NFL, Titans coach Ken Whisenhunt said taking snaps under center and learning new terminology takes time for many rookies, though he noted his former quarterback in Pittsburgh, Ben Roethlisberger, adjusted quickly.

Players said the problems they saw in the huddle and on the field against the Bengals were similar to what they saw in practice. Several sources said he did not practice well leading up to his first start, completing fewer than 50 percent of his passes during the week.

Also that week's practices were not full-speed as Pettine tried to rest veterans, which further compounded uncertainty.

Manziel's preparation was marginally better for his second start, at Carolina, although the numbers didn't reflect much of an improvement with a 4.8 QBR.

Some veterans "clearly didn't want to play for [Manziel]" because of the lack of readiness, and they responded better to undrafted rookie Connor Shaw in part because he knew the plays, sources said. It wasn't lost on players that Shaw played through a dislocated finger on his left hand and a rib injury that had him passing blood after the season finale, while Manziel played six quarters before hurting his hamstring, then missed treatment on the injury on the final Saturday because he was still in bed.

One source stressed Manziel worked much harder in his two weeks as a starter than in the previous three months, but it was more like cramming for a test and he could not make up for his lack of work before the starts.

Farmer said Manziel thought he was ready, but once he encountered the speed of the game he realized in a hurry he wasn't.

"He had a positive notion going in, but then it was turned around on him," Farmer said.

Did Farmer believe he was ready? "Sure," Farmer said.

Pettine said he played Manziel hoping for a spark, that Hoyer was struggling to the point he felt he had to make the move.

"We knew that Johnny, for us, was the big unknown," Pettine said the day after the season ended. "It obviously didn't work out."

Shouldn't have been a surprise

The biggest on-field concern with Manziel as he moved into the NFL was whether he could master the nuances of a pro system. At Texas A&M, the emphasis was on tempo, calling plays in a hurry and getting to the line to run plays quickly. In the NFL, pre-snap reads, protections and coverages matter more than tempo.

At A&M, the center made protection calls and Manziel's job was, in part, to find mismatches, often throwing to dominant 6-foot-5 receiver Mike Evans or scrambling when plays broke down.

"The way we talked about him in meetings, the kid never put in the time he needed to -- studying film, organizing workouts, 7-on-7 workouts -- he didn't do it," said one NFC scout with a Southeastern Conference focus. "His thing would be he's going to show up on Saturdays, 'I'm a gamer.' He'd show up for practices and games but that's about it. Johnny thought he was an NFL superstar before he came [into the league]."

One A&M source said Manziel's attitude is catching up to him. Manziel was lax in preparation unless the Aggies were playing a top-tier opponent, such as Alabama or Auburn, when "you couldn't get him out of the film room," the source said. Against Rice or Sam Houston State, not so much.

Farmer will not reveal where any player is ranked on the team's draft board. Sources, though, said Shanahan liked Jimmy Garappolo, now with New England, or Tom Savage, now with Houston. Debate existed among assistant coaches about Manziel's draft ratings, with some not giving him a first-round grade.

One personnel exec said Manziel is a "talented, unconventional quarterback" whose skill set is wasted when used in traditional NFL sets.

Another exec likened him to a young Brett Favre -- he'll go out and have fun and is confident enough in his ability to offset the nightlife. In one particular draft room, the exec recalls a discussion that Manziel might be a "model citizen" in year one but could revert to partying in year two.

"It takes focus and commitment [to succeed in NFL], which he clearly didn't have," the exec said.

Can Manziel become a franchise cornerstone?

John DeFilippo, who succeeded Shanahan as the Browns' offensive coordinator, did not commit to Manziel during his introductory conference call on Thursday.

"We're not sure if our starting quarterback is in the building or not," DeFilippo said. "If he is, great. If he isn't, great too."

Later that evening, owner Jimmy Haslam echoed those remarks while speaking to reporters at an awards banquet.

"We've got to get a quarterback and got to get it fixed," he said.

The Browns stand behind their statement that "actions speak louder than words."

"To me, there should be no sense of entitlement [that] because he was drafted where he was drafted, therefore he is the starter," Pettine said shortly after the season. "We're not going to connect those dots."

The Browns held wide-ranging staff meetings in early January, and coaches and personnel staffers openly discussed Manziel. The meetings did not produce a strong push to cancel the Johnny Football project.

"I think there's an opportunity for the guy to make changes," Farmer told media in late December, believing Manziel can be a "solid starter" in this league. "It's up to him if he's going to make those changes."

One former NFL assistant coach familiar with developing quarterbacks said it was a mistake to draft Manziel, but it would be a bigger mistake to let him go.

Others, though, maintain the problems balloon when a team sticks with an uncommitted player. At least one candidate to replace Shanahan believed Manziel was not the answer, according to a source.

Opinions on Manziel are so varied -- one league insider says "think Steve Young," while ESPN analyst Merril Hoge says think "sixth-round talent" -- that making judgments on his long-term value is still difficult.

Manziel still has support in the building, particularly on the business side because of the attention he commands in stadiums and merchandise lanes. Though the team said football decisions were made without influence or pressure, some coaches and many players had the clear perception the business and marketing end of the team favored the guy whose jerseys would sell.

Manziel led the NFL in jersey sales in July, before taking a training camp snap. His off-field star power is uncommon for most rookies: His super-friends include Drake and LeBron and Bieber.

"What Johnny has to understand is [if] he has another year like he just had, he's not going to be famous anymore," one NFL team exec said. "LeBron James is going to lose his number."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/122162...on-sources-said


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I just want to know one thing - knowing that Manziel comes from very arrogant money, just who was it that got paid off by them for us to draft him?


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... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Didn't we know all of this (to some extent)?

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After hearing them talk about that article (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/122162...on-sources-said) on 92.3 FM just a little bit ago I was just gonna post it, MemphisBrownie! You beat me to the punch!

Good article. Trainwreck QB.

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I think that he should get a 2nd chance this coming year. Exactly 1 second chance. The coaching staff, and maybe the owner as well need to sit him down and spell things out for him in no uncertain terms ..... that he is on his last legs, and that if he continues the garbage of his rookie season he will find himself off the team, and he very well might find himself out of the NFL entirely. I would remind him that a guy named JaMarcus Russell, a 1st overall pick, who was as physically talented as anyone to ever come to the NFL. He got just 2+ years of bad attitude, laziness, and an unwillingness to curb his eating before he got the boot. Russell was a 1st overall pick, and he got 2 seasons and 4 games. No one ever gave him another real chance at the NFL ever again, because he blew his one chance so badly. I would then remind Manziel that he was only a late 1st round pick, and he got paid a fraction of what Russell did. The Raiders had massive financial reasons for keeping Russell around, and they dumped him anyway. The Browns have no such reasons for holding onto Manziel if he wants to be a screw-off.

Maybe the guy just needs someone to lay it out for him in no uncertain terms. No more being drunk and hung over when you are supposed to be in for treatment. No more screwing around when you are supposed to be learning your craft. Quite simply, no more. The message has to be that he has used up his last chance, and there are no more left. This is it, and it's either he applies himself and works his butt off, or he becomes another failure, and a busted draft pick who was simply too lazy and too selfish to make it in the NFL.

I hope that the Browns are strong and brave enough to sit him down and deliver this message.


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Johnny Manziel called a '100 percent joke'; didn't know playcalls, according to report

rolleyes

Sad part is, I don't doubt the article/sources is false or anything. Kid is a fat joke... Travis Benjamin even said he wasn't getting the plays in.

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Originally Posted By: Dawg_LB
Johnny Manziel called a '100 percent joke'; didn't know playcalls, according to report

rolleyes

Sad part is, I don't doubt the article/sources is false or anything. Kid is a fat joke... Travis Benjamin even said he wasn't getting the plays in.

I remember people defending him back then after Benji said what he said.

It was something to the effect of:
Benji didn't mean that he can't get the calls right, but they would help him out if he couldn't get the calls right. You know. He is a rookie and all.

Nothing about this turd surprises me in the least. I posted at one point that I would quit being a Browns fan if we took him 4th overall because of the stupid "Johnny Football" persona. When they drafted him at 22, I still wasn't enthused by the pick, but could at least stomach it.

Hopefully, he will surprise me, but I won't hold my breath.


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Originally Posted By: Dawg_LB
Johnny Manziel called a '100 percent joke'; didn't know playcalls, according to report

rolleyes

Sad part is, I don't doubt the article/sources is false or anything. Kid is a fat joke... Travis Benjamin even said he wasn't getting the plays in.


Man, I don't know about the source of these remarks but if true, damn, we got a damn fool on our hands. Manziel needs to grow up I think. He needs to get serious about his "JOB"

he scored high on his wonderlic right? so he's not a dummy. he just doesn't apply himself.


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Originally Posted By: WVDawg54
Originally Posted By: Dawg_LB
Johnny Manziel called a '100 percent joke'; didn't know playcalls, according to report

rolleyes

Sad part is, I don't doubt the article/sources is false or anything. Kid is a fat joke... Travis Benjamin even said he wasn't getting the plays in.

I remember people defending him back then after Benji said what he said.

It was something to the effect of:
Benji didn't mean that he can't get the calls right, but they would help him out if he couldn't get the calls right. You know. He is a rookie and all.

Nothing about this turd surprises me in the least. I posted at one point that I would quit being a Browns fan if we took him 4th overall because of the stupid "Johnny Football" persona. When they drafted him at 22, I still wasn't enthused by the pick, but could at least stomach it.

Hopefully, he will surprise me, but I won't hold my breath.


Alright ya caught me tongue I was one who said that I thought Benji was talking about if he goofed up, I guess it was wishful thinking on my part. Does not look good for JM. I don't care much for him, but I want him to work out, for us.


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Surprise, surprise, surprise Sarge!


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I'm kinda glad that you fessed up, bleednbrown? In all honesty, I was hoping that you and others were right. But, this whole thing stinks to high heaven. I wish we never drafted this guy and we don't have to deal with the embarrassment that this situation has brought to Cleveland.

We'll just fingerscrossed


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I think the NFL should take give us the Patroits first round pick this draft to offset the jff pick. We could even deed him to them.


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Report: Cleveland Browns 'wrecked' by Johnny Manziel's rookie season

.

Eric Edholm
By Eric Edholm
3 hours ago

Shutdown Corner

Browns not making any promises to Johnny Manziel


Johnny Manziel texted former Cleveland Browns QB coach Dowell Loggains on Draft Day 2014, urging him to draft Manziel so he could "wreck this league."

Instead, Manziel's nightmare rookie season almost wrecked the team. So says an ESPN.com report, which quotes nearly 20 Browns sources, indicating that the divisive rookie has problems that run deep after a mere nine months with the team.

In six quarters as a starter, Manziel failed to impress, and his presence in the locker room helped fracture a team that had some nice moments at time but fell from the playoff race late and now stands with total uncertainty on where it stands at quarterback heading into 2015.

Loggains was fired. Offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan left with two years left on his contract. New offensive coordinator John DiFllippo has said the team must figure out if the Browns' future quarterback is on the roster currently, and Browns owner Jimmy Haslam echoed those uninspiring comments, too.

Manziel was fined for being AWOL on the final Saturday of the season after suffering a hamstring injury that ended his season. The Browns brass openly wondered during the season, per the report, whether Manziel ever would be a viable franchise quarterback. Manziel's teammates clearly had troubles with the rookie's social calendar and lack of commitment to getting better and being prepared.

One player, according to the ESPN story, said Manziel as a rookie was a "100 percent joke."

Anyone shocked by this? Other teams around the league hardly are. Those that did their work on him during the pre-draft run-up hd their share of questions.

Even though Manziel twice late in the season vowed to fix his problems with tardiness and tone down his partying, the evidence suggested that it carried right through to the offseason — and not long into it.

He was seen partying in Miami Beach, Houston and in Aspen, Colorado, and all in a short time span.


"Johnny's his own worst enemy," one source said in the report.

Manziel sparked the team in the fourth quarter against the Buffalo Bills and led a touchdown drive — he ran it in — in the eventual loss. But his follow-up work against the Cincinnati Bengals and Carolina Panthers was not good, and he left the latter game with a hamstring injury. The Browns were upset he did not appear at the facility diligently to rehab his injury, and he was fined for missing a team meeting.

Are the Browns holding him accountable? The report suggests not nearly enough. Although his teammates had good things to say about Manziel publicly, privately the report shows another matter. And people on other teams are seeing the things that scared them off from drafting Manziel.


"What Johnny has to understand is [if] he has another year like he just had, he's not going to be famous anymore," one NFL team exec said. "LeBron James is going to lose his number."

This is not what the Browns needed. All the positive momentum gained in Mike Pettine's first year as head coach in what would be a 7-9 season now feels undercut by the underprepared and unreliable Manziel. With one year under his belt, it's way too soon to say that he's a bust or that he'll eventually be one.

But the early returns are not positive, and the immediate future all of a sudden looks very questionable.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdo...-202436630.html


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Originally Posted By: Dawg_LB
Johnny Manziel called a '100 percent joke'; didn't know playcalls, according to report

rolleyes

Sad part is, I don't doubt the article/sources is false or anything. Kid is a fat joke... Travis Benjamin even said he wasn't getting the plays in.


BUT HE'S MAGIC THOUGH

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That might be the most damming article I have ever read about a player and a team.

I am even more convinced that Manziel has a huge alcohol problem.

I am even more convinced that Farmer and Haslam are more interested in ticket sales than victories and that both are huge liabilities to this team.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
That might be the most damming article I have ever read about a player and a team.


Hyperbole much? Ray Rice?

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What? What does "one of the most........." mean in your world?

And Ray Rice? Really?

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"One of the most. . ." "the most" same thing, right?

And yes, Ray Rice, really. I'm sure there are article detailing his transgressions and the Ravens cover up. That is surely more damning than the Manziel article, most of which we already knew, right?

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The are completely different in nature.

You can sweep it under the rug if you like, but that article was damning as hell for both Johnny and the Browns.

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if this article is even half true.. then this is a real problem and Johnny may have just run out of chips.

He better get is act together and focus his energy or in three years he may just be another footnote.

MAN, this just flat out sucks, its kind of depressing


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What's more depressing is the quote that says the team knew all about his character and decided to draft him anyway.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
What's more depressing is the quote that says the team knew all about his character and decided to draft him anyway.



yeah, I looked at drafting JM as a flyer, thanks to Banner and the Trich trade I thought we were playing with house money so I was all in on the draft...but it just gets worse...

To me he is now in the show me or quite wasting our time, guess we will know soon enough with OTA's


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When we drafted Manziel, all of us knew it was boom or bust. BUT- the chance of having a franchise QB- the boom factor- outweighed all of the negative feelings and the bust factor.

Its really quite amaizing how fast ESPN has jumped off his band wagon. ESPN was Johnnie highlight for his entire time at A/M- Manziel's head must be spinning right now with all of the negative press. (Yes, he asked for it.)

But here is the head scratcher for me- Johnny came from money, its not like the NFL money should have gone to his head. He had the fame at A/M- so the NFL fame should not have gone to his head. Makes we want to just give up on him.....

BUT then i read more about his time at A/M- how he never went to film study, rarely lifted weights and just let his talent take over games... and then he was unprepared for the browns. Coasted the seson, treated it like a joke. All the more reason to give up on him -right????

IF IF IF-- we can just channel his focus. Just think what this guy could accomplish. He has gotten this far without even trying. Just think what he can do if he actually tried. I hope he is a competitor. I hope his competitive nature kicks in and he gets his act together. I hope he matured this year, I hope he learned from his mistakes. Did he learn that he actually needs to work in this league- did he learn that this is a job. IF he did, we might still have a QB.

Maybe the worst thing that happened to Manziel was losing the QB job in camp, he let his immaturity get the better of him and he mailed in the season. Maybe if he would have started from day one, got his butt kicked a few times he would have realized that the NFL is different from A/M.

I agree with the browns handling of the QB thing now, even though some in the media are already ripping Haslam for saying we need to find a QB. So much for continuity -right. What are the browns supposed to do?? Manziel has proven that he can't be counted on, he needs to be challenged at this point. IF he gets his act together, I really think he will be just fine, and possible the franchise guy we are looking for. Unfortunatly, we can't put all our eggs in one basket, there has to be a plan B, and it needs to be a good one.

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Originally Posted By: bigf00t
He has gotten this far without even trying. Just think what he can do if he actually tried.


On the offchance he turns this around and becomes a competent NFL QB, there are going to be quite a few detractors with egg on their faces...


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We did know the that he was boom or bust. Most of us who supported him said the same thing.

What we didn't know was how terrible his character was. Yes, there were reports of poor character, but I don't think any of us fans really understood the magnitude of how deeply troubled this kid was.

I thought he liked to party, just like most 21 year old kids. I did not realize he had an alcohol problem. There is indeed a difference.

Some hated him from the beginning, but it's not his skill set that is lacking..........it's his alcohol problem that is affecting his preparation.

I was fooled. I watched how competitive he was in games. I never realized he was so negligent in his preparation for games.

The Browns knew........and they still drafted him over guys like Teddy, Carr, and Jimmy G.

Amazing!

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Why would they have egg on their face? Yeah, guys like arch and PDR who have knocked his physical talent would look stupid, but the guys who are now questioning his character have every right to do so.

You disagree w/that?

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Quote:


Manziel's teammates clearly had troubles with the rookie's social calendar and lack of commitment to getting better and being prepared.



the teammates resented his social calendar what the heck are they jealous of? That's he was hanging with James? That he had snickers commercials? They hated the JM National Media Circus??

I'm not a fan of JM's output or attitude either, but good Lord, nice to see a backup mediaj-hyped first round pick rookie QB with a WELL KNOWN media hog mindset could totally dimantle a Browns organization within a year notallthere

I keep reading this theme and it infuriates me to no end...lack of commitment to getting better and being prepared - This to me puts the coaches and staff front and center in the crosshairs. During the seasons, you practice and work your a$$ off ... so his reward - if this is true - is to start the biggest game of the year? A non-committed, non-preparing Rookie was better than Hoyer (whose mechanics took a dump)... really? Basically, if this is true, a rookie with a 'me complex' overran the entire organization...we can't handle alpha male attitudes??

Does this not put more issues at the FO and coaching staff for allowing the dysfunction all season? So, we couldn't handle Gordon's return, we couldn't handle JM, and we couldn't handle Shany's attitude apparently either...

I think I saw this movie - wasn't it called the Replacements? rofl


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Two thoughts on the article: If he only studied film when they had a big game, and on those occasions you could not drag him out of the film room, then he has the ability to turn it up. He has to have been sufficiently humiliated to go to that level now. Secondly, we will know immediately in preseason, maybe even OTAs, if he is a bust if he is still up to the same crap. If he shows he gets it (not just talking the talk), we'll know right away. That won't mean he is the future, but it will mean he has woken up. If he shows up screwing around again and not knowing the plays, it is all over.

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Excellent post and people wonder why Shanny wanted out.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Why would they have egg on their face? Yeah, guys like arch and PDR who have knocked his physical talent would look stupid, but the guys who are now questioning his character have every right to do so.

You disagree w/that?


Questioning his character (to date) certainly is valid. However, those who overlook the total package/potential and are wanting to dump him, are short-sighted. Like nobody in life gave any of us a second chance? I'm certain all of us needed one at some point...


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I think the Browns tried to keep JFF motivated.. and hoped he was doing work away from the job.. You can't stand over him with a whip 24/7, but saw he was not getting it in practice. To me, that is the reason Hoyer did not get an early hook.

As the season went on.. the Browns did not have the time to waste on Mr. Football.. so they let him run the scout team and the coaching staff primarily worked with Hoyer. When other teams finally figured Hoyer out, Mr Football turned out to be Mr Jello Shot and the Browns were sunk...

Who is to blame? Obviously Manziell, but also the QB coach, and Shanahan. Shanahan had other duties, but the position coach should have lit a fire under Mr. Football's behind. I am glad both Shanahan and Loggains are gone.

JMHO from articles I've read.. and dots I've put together.. no proof.


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Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Why would they have egg on their face? Yeah, guys like arch and PDR who have knocked his physical talent would look stupid, but the guys who are now questioning his character have every right to do so.

You disagree w/that?


Questioning his character (to date) certainly is valid. However, those who overlook the total package/potential and are wanting to dump him, are short-sighted. Like nobody in life gave any of us a second chance? I'm certain all of us needed one at some point...


I aint ready to dump him yet... but he has a lot of esplainin to do, ( sorry Ricky) saywhat


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I think many are willing to give him a second chance, but that is different than having egg on your face if he does succeed.

Again, the only guys who would have egg on their face are the ones who have said he doesn't have enough talent to play in the NFL.

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Quote:
Who is to blame? Obviously Manziell, but also the QB coach, and Shanahan. Shanahan had other duties, but the position coach should have lit a fire under Mr. Football's behind. I am glad both Shanahan and Loggains are gone.

JMHO from articles I've read.. and dots I've put together.. no proof.


I totally disagree w/this. The blame lies on Johnny for his poor preparation and alcohol problem and the FO for drafting him in the first place.

We could have had Teddy!

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I'm one of the guys who will have egg on his face if Manziel ends up proving to be "professional grade". I'll be here to take my lumps if that happens. I'm not too worried about it.

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If I know you like I think I do............I am betting that you hope you have egg on your face.

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Thanks - I wasn't implying that I would rather be right than have the Browns be successful. It occurred to me after I posted that it could be read that way. I've been wrong about plenty of other things - I'm just another know-it-all nobody.

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I know I have a sarcastic tone w/many posters, but I was sincere when I said you would rather be wrong than right on this issue.

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DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A Johnny Manziel Chronology with the Browns

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