DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mike Pettine let Shanahan leave to avoid 'dark cloud'

Once again Tab you failed to read the post. I simply said it was just as good of a theory as any. I'm certainly not saying that's what went down. It's simply a plausible theory.

And I also didn't say that Shanny wanted a "specific QB" but wanted one with certain strong suits. Let's face it, if you look at QB's like Carr and Bridgewater, then compare them to Manziel, those QB's are of very contrasting styles.

And why you seem to indicate than any theory other than your own is "imaginary" simply means it's you that are stuck with your theory as the only one that can be plausible. You don't know that Shanny only came here because he felt he had too. You don't know that he wasn't committed to staying here unless a HC offer was available. And that's not what happened. He left for a lateral move and from what anyone knows, he wasn't even assured of that job.

And nowhere did I even state some of the things you said. I simply said it's very possible Shanny described the type of QB he wanted and the FO went in the opposite direction. If an OC feels the FO will not give you the talent you need, if you have no confidence in them to draft good talent, you move on.

Everything in your "imaginary scenario" is based on the talking heads or BOZOS as you call them when they say things you can string together to support this FO and make anyone who moves on as the bad guy. Yet when you look at JFF, the facts indicate that any OC with experience may easily see that when your FO drafts guys like that BOZO JFF, you're not going to succeed here.

The evidence on the field would indicate that Shanny felt the deck was stacked against him with being straddled with JFF, and you're right, I'm pretty sure that it wasn't Shanny who had a say in that.

Now you can keep calling theories other than your own "imaginary" all you like, but your theory is no les stringing together what you wish to listen to and ignoring the things you don't wish to listen to.

The difference is I give your theory as much credence as any. It's just not the only plausible theory.

Any OC who feels a FO drafted a good QB for him to work with and succeed with would love the opportunity to turn things around here. It would be a fantastic addition to a resume'. The only reason to leave for a lateral move would be because you don't think the people in charge can or will do that.

you can still see what other people are quoting and replying to with anyone that's being ignored.

[quote=Versatile Dog]Except for Banner was here./quote]

Three (regimes) out of four ain't bad. And you're right - as much as I tried to like LomBanner...I couldn't.

That's really what you got out of that article?

Does that surprise you? He is the worst at seeing only wants to see or read and ignoring anything that contradicts that even a little bit.

I like tab and I won't slam him. But there was quite a bit of other stuff in there.......like about Gilbert's terrible attitude, the changing of opinions on Manziel during the course of the year and certainly AFTER Banner and Lombardi's studies of JM, and how the rift wasn't between the coaches, but the FO and the coaches.

Oh well............

I have said all along that what I was posting here was a theory and nothing more.

I also didn't say that it was a "draft day turn of events". I said that there is a very strong possibility that the FO drafted a QB the type of which Shanny didn't want. Whether that happened on draft day or was pre determined before the draft I have no idea.

I simply don't find it logical to believe that this FO gave Shanny the type of weapons he asked for that gave him a reason to feel he would be successful here. If they felt they had, turning around the Browns would have looked very good on his resume' and he would of had cause to stay.

Had he left for a HC gig I could buy into a different theory. But there has to be a lot more to it considering it was a lateral move.

Sorry Tab, get as upset as you like. You're the one who called it imaginary. Just like the imaginary scenario you have come up with. I don't see how you throwing some tantrum because I called you on what you said really serves the debate.

Now all of this was some rumors going back to the start of the season, I had heard that Shanny really wanted us to keep Grossman as he was the guy that he wanted to bring in to help teach the system to Manziel and we kept shaw instead. Then when we cut Tate, Shanny was irate because this was the back he had brought in to teach the youngsters the offensive scheme, blocking assignments etc. It wasnt the talent in these situations but mentorship.

Now I can defintely understand Shannahan's frustration in both instances. I can also understand the moves Farmer made.

I also believe that Shanny and Pettine just wasnt eye to eye on a lot of things and that goes back to the fact that Pettine wanted Flip in here last year. Again why would Shanny want to stay where he isnt wanted and then you throw in the rift with Farmer and then the texting stuff on top and it was just better for all parties to part way. No harm no foul nothng to see here, move along. lol

Shanny got a grade A plus offense to manage. Pettine got the guy he wanted. Johnny gets a supposed QB guru. We will see how it turns out.

You must have missed where I said that I didn't dismiss your theory either.

You really need to grow a thicker skin. I was actually doling my best to dance around offending you. Here lately you seem to get upset with the smallest of things. I don't know why, but it's not the way things used to be. You're reading way too much into things Bud.

Sources also told Fowler and McManamon that since-departed OC Kyle Shanahan preferred Jimmy Garoppolo and Tom Savage to Manziel as a 2014 draft prospect.

Link

Tom Savage. Lol.

Johnny Manziel.

I really don't get this argument that people are making that there was a rift between Pettine and Shanny. It wasn't about them. It was about Shanny's lack of faith in the FO.

tab, you mentioned that there was just one sentence about Gilbert. True, but it was a BIG sentence. How many sentences were there about Shanny?

Yet, all you got out of that article is that Haslam is great and you're glad Shanny was gone?

Come on, man!

My point was... "I didn't want this jerk, I wanted the turd!"

I can see were you are saying Harlem might have forced the move, bur Farmer? He is the GM and ultimately his job to pick the players. Now if you want to say he blew it on Manziel then I would agree, but ultimately it is his job to pick the players. Shanahan isn't responsible at all for those picks, and according to the article didn't like either of the top guys.

Farmer might be horrible at his job only time will tell, but no matter the FO setup someone (who's job is on the line usually) is going to make the final call. This is why I defended Banner when he mentioned that he would be the tie breaker among the infamous "consensus"......that wasn't Joe forcing anything on anyone it was him doing his job...same with Farmer.

We never got to see if Joe was good at his job or not, and hopefully Farmer is better than I believe him to be at it. However you can't fault either of those guys for attempting to do it their way.


Agree on the Haslam thing though. He is establishing a pattern of meddlesome behavior on football operations

Just playing, steve. Relax.

I kinda thought Shanny wanted either Jimmy G or Carr. I never thought it was Sexy Rexy.

As usual, a logical reply by BigWillie.

Yes, we are out there! And we do at times take a hit for saying so...but that's OK for we have a clearer vision of our destiny than others.

I never argue cause i'm always right

Clearer vision? You've been wrong on everything.

Oh my but you're on a roll tonight...

Sorry, I found your comment about having a "clearer vision" rather offensive, especially considering how things have played out over the years.

'Twas not meant to be offensive, somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Again it's the glass half-full outlook; far too much negativity on here...

In your opinion. I think there is much too much false optimism.

To each their own, but to say your vision is clearer than mine is not exactly accurate.

I said "others" in order to keep it general and not target any poster specifically. I probably should have said "some others"...

... or 'one other'.

j/c:



https://twitter.com/LaneAdkins

Merrill Hoge was right. now its up to manzel to learn like a real qb would play...get rid of `johnny ball`. and learn browns playbook.

I don't think Hoge's comments were so much 'he needs to buckle down' as 'he has almost no chance of success at the NFL level', and I tend to agree with him.

Manziel was always a low odds gamble. He didn't have an NFL skill set. The fact that he's a dunce only made low odds seem impossible.

Even if he gets his act together...he doesn't have the tools necessary to win in the NFL.

J/C

I don't care why Shanahan left. He wasn't that good, anyway. Onto the next.

What? Are you telling me you didn't like his route trees?
(picture if you will 'route trees' being said by Peter Griffin instead of "Roadhouse").

Actually, I really liked Shanahan as an OC. However, I think with that ability to be a successful coach, comes baggage that has proven to exist in Washington and some trickling here in Cleveland after one year. Would it have been worth it to try and keep him? I say yes. But if the guy wanted out THAT BAD, then fine, let him walk.

People blame Farmer for the rift between Shanahan and the organization but I don't necessarily subscribe to that theory. I think Haslem is becoming a major issue on several levels, and clearly pushed the button on Manziel. A player Shanahan allegedly didn't want. Now, it might end up being Farmer, but at this point, I think Haslem is wearing a lot of people thin.

I have no clue how our new OC will do, but if he doesn't have creative roadhou.., I mean route trees, they'll be hell to pay on this board.

I have noticed lately a trend that focuses less on Farmer and more at Haslem. Farmer has been "hammered" mercilessly on this board, perhaps unjustifiably so...

I've seen that too---more people turning the animosity toward Haslem. Famer is being hammered for Gilbert/Manziel (of which the latter may not have been him) and the most recent texting.

If the texting turns out to be true...he deserves all the backlash he can handle.

Let's not forget that Gilbert was Pettine's request.

I think you will see Farmer trying less to be a pleaser and just doing his job this year after the mess that has happened in the past season.

thats what i thought.