DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh Gordon is a Punk

If Manziel was in Vegas with Gordon when Gordon was drinking, and if Manziel knew he couldn't drink, then cut them both. And not because it is JFF's fault, but geez, if he truly knew what was at stake, and had his head in the game. he'd have broken the beer bottle over that moron's head. Would Aaron Rodgers sit and watch while his star receiver got himself suspended? Gilbert might turn it around, be we are wasting our time with Gordon and Manziel. It's just stupid at this point.

Exactly. I don't give a rat's anus if they told him he couldn't have chocolate .. if they tell you not to ingest/inhale something and that you will be tested for it, then stay away from it.

It's not draconian or unfair. DUI means no drinky. He put himself in this position.

Amazing to think he is the result of one sperm cell who beat out millions of others.

He was a really athletic sperm cell..

How does this help the Browns beat the Steelers, Ravens or Bengals?

Wow, Alcohol is legal, it's not like its weed. Alcohol is different, because its a drink, not a shot or a smoke. You can't suspend someone a year because they're drunk. Maybe apparently you can. I'm reading this to find out the news story, but can't find the news story.

Gordon out another year, what're my thoughts. It's official, somebody hates the Browns.

oh no, oh no, why me, why my team!

Smoking cigarettes is legal.

But a company can tell you if you smoke that you are required to quit to keep your job.

Same thing.

We should have traded him when we had the chance. Now he has zero value. I'm of the opinion Johnny Ego will end the same.... untradeable. If we could get a 2nd for him right now I would LEAP at it. But I doubt even Jones would give up a 2nd for Johnny now Maybe a 3rd and that would be awfully tempting.

J/C
I keep hearing things like "What do the Browns gain by cutting Gordon?" I think it's more about what they lose if they keep him. After so many chances it's about respect for the leaders of this organization and teammates. Not cutting him sends the message that you can just do what you want and there are no consequences. This team needs to, as part of establishing a winning culture and organization, show that it won't tolerate repeated behavior that goes against a team first mentality.

I have to admit that I was unaware of any alcohol provisions as it relates to Gordon's substance abuse issues. None the less I'm certain that he knew, he certainly should have. That being the case the accountability lies totally with him.

Whether the Browns retain his rights should purely be a business decision centered on what is best for the team. If there is any advantage of keeping his rights then do so. He will not be with the team and not be allowed contact with team mates so he will have no opportunity to contaminate other players.

Weed is legal in four States at the moment and I suspect more and more will get on board the next few years. It's legal by perscription in 23 States and DC. Players could EASILY qualify for a script as much punishment as they take....

But that's besides the point. It's not legal in the NFL. Should it be? Hell yes. The Players Union screwed up BIG TIME. They should have traded HGH testing straight up for Weed testing. But they didn't, and the league has rules against weed, certain other drugs, and drinking after getting a DUI. Those that follow those rules can play. Those that don't, can't. If meathead wants to play football, then meathead has to stop drinking and smoking and taking codeine. But he won't, because he is way too stupid to understand that millions of dollars are more important than beers and bud. He can't seem to understand that once he's done playing, and has 20 million in the bank, he can drink and smoke to his hearts content. He'd rather party now, and end up homeless and destitute. Working at Wallmart, while collecting foodstamps.
He is truly a meathead. In every single sense of the term.

A lot of people forget he had a DUI last summer while waiting for his suspension appeal hearing... DUI automatically brings the no drinking clause I believe....

If you can't handle keeping yourself clean and sober for millions of dollars I have no pity for you. I say cut him and to hell if it don't cost us anything contract wise. The FO needs to send a clear message to the other potential meatheads like Manziel.... Earn millions to be a hero or get the Duck out.

Very Good points.

I'm not sure keeping Gordon around as a "tale of caution" would really fit in with Pettine's style or the culture that is being created. I just don't see him as the type to discipline his guys with flogging in the square or crucifying him at the city gates.

Besides, I think the majority of the team is pretty locked on with the concepts of being prepared and putting in an honest effort, and earning their opportunities to play. When you see guys like Gabriel, K'Waun, and Crow earning opportunities, I think that is a much more positive, powerful, and effective message.

If we cut him can he play in Canada? If so then I say we keep him, it's not like he'll cost us money or a roster spot.

Let him sell cars, and make sure the dealership has the Browns games on. Nothing like listening to Jim Donovan calling a game to make you regret being that damn stupid!

I just remembered something. The last time I heard that Josh Gordon was facing a one year suspension, was less than a year ago.

Only 9 months ago, during the 2014 draft, sometime in those 3 days in April, or was it May,

I don't understand the blasted Pro bowl.
If this is the future or football, then I'll just watch soccer.
This is AWFUL!

Whoever is changing football like this, is the worst thing imaginable!

The Browns haven't been watchable for 21 years anyway.

I would prefer if you kept to one topic..

You're hard enough to understand as it is..

I think that because he got the DUI while under suspension, there was probably adeal made not to suspend him for the DUI also at the same time. Thus he had to test for alcohol too.

I have a CDL license, and sometimes instead of a drug test, they bring you in early in the morning and you take a breathalyzer test.

They don't have to cut him, he just did it himself. They own his rights, and I believe they should keep them. He has made money from this team, holding his rights will prevent him from going to Canada and making money. If I'm the FO, I hold his rights as long as possible as a pay back for him screwing over the team that has gave him way too many chances.

His pro career is over, therer is no team anywhere that would be stupid enough to sign a guy that has been suspended every year he's been in the league. What a fool.

This Young Man Needs Our Prayers Not Our Condemnation, He Has A Substance Abuse Problem, I Know, That Was Me Until God Changed My Life ... Sad

Gordon obviously doesn't care. So why should I?

If they choose to not listen to me, after giving them multiple opportunities.

Then they can do whatever they want. It's no longer my business..

When people choose to take drugs or drink excessively its usually because they need help in their life and no one is paying attention so they use this to get your attention ... Its sad because most that don't understand will throw them away before reaching out to help them ...

He's a famous athlete.

Everyone knows.

He's had countless people reach out to help him.

It's gone beyond help, and become enabling.

..your response is common of how people tend to view people with addictions...typically they are 'weak" and they are more concerned about their own please' and they should just comply - anything but addiction. An addict fully knows the consequences of his actions and cannot stop themselves. my concern is not about his NFL career but his total welfare as a human being..

The large amount of responses to this thread run in that vein as well as the unfairness of the system, weed is not bad, and how much lack of self control he apparently has..to me this speaks volumes toward a possible addiction.

My point and why I said so many IFs was that the only way he gets better is to ensure a correct diagnosis - IF he has addiction problems he needs to get the correct help.

JMHO

The only reason I cared about him is because he's a Browns player.

He's suspended for all of next year, therefore basically isn't a Browns player.

So he can continue living the high life all he wants. I don't care.

Cry for him all you want. He doesn't care either.

PastorMarc I think it's commendable that you remind us of the human cost to drug abuse. I hope that he gets the help that he needs. I do think the team has done all that it can.

THROW LONG just has to pop his head in every once in awhile to remind everyone that he is the craziest poster on here.

Mission accomplished.

You've brought this point up at least twice now. I'm not disagreeing with you that addiction is a possibility.. but you still haven't illustrated what in his behavior supports the idea that it's addiction vs. someone who is "weak", whether that means he's a pure follower, has low self esteem, or a compulsion to please others.

I think the word "addiction" has mostly been thrown out there in this thread to describe his behavior simply because drugs have been a factor. Too often people just assume one automatically goes with the other.

Just some random thoughts but I don't know if he's necessarilly addicted or has a problem. He's not doing anything different than I did or millions of others did when they were younger. He isn't doing coke or heroine.

Most people have probably done one or both in their lifetime. Seems like football just really isn't that important to him...and that's OK. I don't hold it against him. Its his life to live.

I agree that he needs prayer. He obviously has numerous problems that he needs help with.

Forcing him out the door may help push him into getting help. The Browns simply cannot waste any more time on the young man. They have given him as many chances as they can, and he has abused them all. It is time for the team, a business, to move on and cut ties. It also sends a message to the other players that a message of accountability is the truth.

I hope that Gordon gets the help he obviously needs, but I have my doubts as to whether or not he wants his football career enough to change.

I'm going to assume that you have never worked in an environment where management allowed one person to act entitled while said employee rubbed that fact into everyone elses faces...Letting this ride is sending a clear message to the rest of the team that TALENT supersedes everything else no matter what the FO, coaches or even the LEAGUE states to be the case.

You also must have been totally oblivious to his (gordon) gripes about how his teammates mistreated him after his return from suspension. GROW A SACK AND ACT LIKE A PROFESSIONAL FOR GODS SAKE. This kid has had WAAAAAAAAY to many chances to turn it around.

After Chris Carter called for the Browns to cut his anus last year I thought that maybe he was just being a little too harsh, but now I wish that they had actually listened to him then, as our record would probably have turned out better. Unfortunately there is no way to really know now.

Dump Gordon and bury Johnny Farfenugen on the bench as a third stringer. Also Unfortunate is the 1st round that would be wasted if we drop both. Regardless, Farmer needs to send a STRONG message here by standing by the team and owners tolerance policies.

You probably want to edit that post and remove the bad language before a Ref sees it and gives you a vacation.

Just a suggestion.

What is he addicted to? Weed, codeine, alcohol... all of the above?

He did check into rehab after his DUI arrest and this is what he said,

I don't know anything about Cliffside Malibu but I'm making an assumption that it was the correct help.

And what do you say about his issues when he is sober, like his speeding tickets, one of which was for doing 98 in a 60? I don't understand why that was always dismissed as "just speeding"; going that fast on I-480 (or wherever it was) is taking nonconsensual chances with other peoples' lives and IMO it's worse than a DUI in that regard. I think it's because he only cares about his personal pleasures and to hell with other people. Maybe I'm in the minority on that one but if you look at it from the point of view of a motorist instead of as a Browns fan, maybe you could see where I'm coming from.

j/c

Just chiming in on the new failed test.

Hard to believe we're going to lose Gordon due to alcohol, a drug that is legally served to anyone over 21 in the US. I understand the substance abuse policy added alcohol to the list of banned substances for Josh Gordon, but I don't understand how they can do that and yet condone Manziel's (and others) obvious public drinking profiles. Telling Josh he could not drink alcohol was punitive and well intentioned but somehow it does not seem fair in anyway to me. I don't drink at all now, but at that age if you told me I could not drink I would have told you to kiss my you know what.

It's just incredible to me that such a talent gets totally wasted (pun intended) for absolute stupidity on both side of the situation. I think Josh is a dumb as they come and the rules that say a guy his age can't drink alcohol if he wants are just as stupid. SAD SAD SAD.

I had hoped that Gordon would get a grip and be a star for the Browns, now I just really don't care. He's an idiot.

I don't do any kind of illegal drugs or alcohol anymore, when I was young and in better health that was a different story. That said, since leaving the military I have never and will never work for anyone who thinks they have the right to violate my privacy via drug testing. Voluntary drug testing or following the direct order of an officer of the law would be a different story. But in no way do I now nor did I ever believe any business should have the right to make drug testing mandatory. Call it one of my personal pet peeves but I have never agreed with the laws that make it legal to force employees to drug test.

Could you imagine how many would be suspended/banned for a year if this policy applied to all NFL personnel? There wouldn't be enough players/staff left to field one team.

If they applied this to Congress could you imagine? To the military? To the place where you work? ... IMHO the NFL allowing this rule or enforcing a Ban due to alcohol is going too far, way too far.

I wanted to trade Gordon after he had that marvelous year in 2013...I just knew with his priors and suspensions everywhere that it was bound to happen...but good riddance to him, shame...makes you sick to your stomach

So our WR need is definitely bigger and I expect us to sign at least one in FA...also should see more Davante Parker, White, Strong, etc talks

Just a potential guy I would love the team to acquire is Rams WR Chris Givens 6'0 202 lbs 4.39 speed and is a big play magnet (rember he and Gordon were rookies in 2012 and had very similar rookie years) The Rams flooded their WR corps with Kenny Britt, Tavon Austin, Quick, Bailey, Pettis. Givens got pushed to like #4 and #5 WR...I'm sure he could be had for a very late pick...and the only trouble he got in was in his rookie year... Givens and Janoris Jenkins were late for a meeting and had to run stairs at the stadium and both didn't dress for a game...In all honesty he is like Gabriel but 5 inches taller and 27 lbs bigger...I think he could easily be an asset in our trio WR looks

j/c

In the end, the Browns are a business.... and businesses must weigh assets against liabilities to make their decisions.

JG's natural talent has always been a potential asset for this team.

However, his off-field issues have always been liabilities, at the same time.


If wee look at nothing but cold hard facts, the picture becomes much clearer:

He's missed almost as many games as he's played
His most recent game time threw the entire O chemistry off
His history (since college) has suggested the this is what we can all expect from him, going forward.

Because of my own personal history, I've always been in Josh Gordon's corner. It's a wonderful thing to see a person turn his life around, to become a success story.

Having said that, I'll also add this: EVERY profession is littered with the names of people who were every bit as talented as anyone in their chosen field, but who also found (or made) ways to sabotage their own best interests.

I applaud the Browns for the efforts they've made to help this young man, but in the end- they must look at their own bottom line to decide whether they wish to invest more time, money and resources into him.

At the very least, he's shown us all that he's been incapable of doing what's best for his own professional career. At the very worst, his behavior has hamstrung a team that can least afford to invest its efforts in a player who is unavailable to do what he's paid to do. Put simply: Dude isn't doing his job.

This kid is breaking my heart. It's excruciating to watch such a gifted person squander his chances, one after another. But, as the kids say these days: "It's MY life!"


Well, then... so be it. If you want to break rules that have been imposed upon you because your own actions, continue to exhibit bad judgement, and risk an insanely lucrative career with foolhardy life choices, then there's nothing I (or anyone else) can do to help you.

Eventually, you'll have to play the "Life Cards" that YOU helped place on the table.

_____________

I hate seeing these stories play out. Ryan Leaf, Art Schlichter... these stories play out like Shakespearean tragedies in front of our eyes- and it's really hard to watch. But they do happen- and I'm saddened to think that this kid's story will most likely be added to the list of failures. I really, REALLY wanted to see him beat the odds.

As a fan, I'm going to be OK with whatever the current Browns FO decide to do with him. Cut him, keep him, trade him for whatever we can get- honestly, it's all good with me.... but I'm done with giving him my active support. Life's too short to burn more time on a person who doesn't even seem to try to return my investment of hopes and wishes.

I dragged myself up from the gutter (with the help of a strong family, good friends, and a woman who saw more in me that I saw in myself) to find a place in Life and my chosen profession. I hope that Josh can do the same for himself. But if the Browns decide to let him find that path without their continued help. I wouldn't blame them one bit.

They are, after all... just an NFL football team. They are NOT a Social Services Agency.


.02

I've read & skimmed a bunch of articles and still have failed to find it. Does anyone know the amount of alcohol you must have in your body to test positive?

It doesn't change my opinion on this at all (he's a jackass), but I'd like to know. I find it amazing that the NFLPA would agree to this.

I'm not so sure he was told he could not drink... most likely there are test levels similar to DUI laws... such as.. (.08)

We do not know what the test limit is for Gordon to qualify as a blown test. It could be like an airline pilot.. not being able to test above .02....

Just read the, "Josh Gordon has failed another drug test, this time for alcohol, according to reports" story.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss..._social_feature

How disappointing for us Browns fans. Here we had a rare naturally talented receiver who has done the same stupid thing, over and over again. What's that quote? 'Past behavior predicts current and future behavior.' And even when he did play this year - well, he just didn't seem to give 100%. I think he has taken his gifts in life for granted.

Perhaps Sarchione Auto Group will rehire him to sell cars again?

Year in and year out, this team is just one dramatic soap opera, starting from the owner and then down to some of our players... They just can't seem to get it together (sighs).

Gordon has numerous failed drug tests, and a DUI. He gave up the right to any benefit of a doubt whatsoever as a result.

He agreed to be bound by the rules when he signed his contract. He caught a break last year when he had his drug suspension reduced to only 10 games. He made sure that he got his DUI out of the way before the new policy too effect so that he would not catch a big double whammy at that point, but that came with conditions. One of those is that he was not allowed to drink, in addition to not being allowed to do drugs.

Unfortunately, Gordon has shown the inability to make good decisions. It is a shame. He seems like a nice enough kid, and he definitely has talent ..... but he keeps falling back into the same problems.

If I had a job that I was incredibly good at, and a job that would be assured of paying millions of dollars in just a few short years time, and in order to get those millions, all I had to do is stay away from drugs and alcohol completely, well, then that is what I would do. Anyway who wanted to try and drag me into such things would not be my friend.

I have a friend who works for the Post Office. Before he got that job, he used to like to smoke pot on the weekends. It was never a problem for him, but it was a part of his lifestyle. Many of his other friends smoked.

If he wanted to pass the mandatory drug tests, and keep his job, he had to stay away from the stuff. He could not even allow himself to be around it. Most of his friends understood, but a couple simply could, or would not. He had one friend who kept asking him to buy pot for him, and my buddy eventually had to cut ties with some of his former friends. His job was important enough to him that he could not take chances of even just being caught with anyone who had any pot.

Gordon had a choice. He could work to become an all time great NFL player, with all of the monetary rewards, and fame and glory that go with it ...... or he could be the "buddy" to people who might not have his best interests at heart, or who just might not have known his drug policy requirements. He decided that partying it up was more important than his career. He decided that partying it up was more important that his paycheck. Heck, if the Browns release Gordon, I bet that they go after any of his signing bonus they can get. Gordon signed his deal with a $2.324 million signing bonus. He missed 2 games in 2013 (his 2nd season) to suspension, and 11 games in 2014 to suspension. (10 game NFL drug suspension, and 1 game team suspension) That is 14 games missed over 2 seasons due to suspension.

I would think that the Browns will wind up cutting Gordon, and then trying to recoup half of his original signing bonus. I would think that they have a good shot at it as well.

In the end, Gordon had a decision to make, and he decided that getting drunk, and/or getting high, was more important that his career in the NFL, a career that could have seen him become one of the all time greats if he just applied himself. It is a shame. He didn't get hurt. He has said that he is not an addict in any way, based on his time in treatment. So that leaves only 2 options. Either he is just stupid, or his career is just not that important, and he just doesn't care. What a shame to see such incredible talent go to waste, and by no ones actions but his own.

so money manzel took him out and the league found out kinda thing?

killing two stones with one bird