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juuust clicking.
i'm not sure how KS doesn't possess what it takes to play RT. Vers, not to take away from what you're saying about his needing help from Druzzi, because you may well know better than i do. but just from what i saw, Druzzi wasn't even helping himself. was it just me, or did anyone else see the interior of the line being the point of penetration from the D?
seems to me that when Charlie took a sack coming from the ends - blitzes form the backfield excluded - he rolled right into them more than it being an issue of the line breaking.
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While true, you just gave the pro-Necktie crowd (all 3 of'em  ) some ammunition to say he'll get better because we'll have an improved rushing attack.
Damnit Aldy *L*
Crap. Sorry.
Anyway, I wish we could get Shaffer's spin on this. Heck, I'd even take Hank's spin on it if his wife still comes around here....
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Simpley stated: Ya never have enough quality O or D-lineman starter quality, or back-up quality, an to have one at LT....thats gold, even if he is average. 
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1st String
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shaffer can move to right gaurd and we have an above average online...for once
Every Cleveland fan is a diehard fan...everyone else quit watching
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Alright opie, you are okay. I could nitpick here, but I won't. I'll be talkin' w/ya. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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the right side of the line begins to look much weaker
I really dont get this fascination around here that has grown around Schaeffer and possibly being a RT. For one the guy has never played RT as far as I know. And the only evidence to suggest he would be good there is that he isnt so great at LT? Did we learn nothing from history? Butch Davis moved guys all over the line and wrecked multiple positions because of one injury. Being a mediocre LT does not make you a good RT. Let Schaeffer walk, and draft the future RT next year. Tucker will be fine for one more year, after having a long vacation last year he should be as healthy as he has been in years. Bentley at gaurd will be better than either Tucker or Schaeffer for the gaurd spot.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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Trading Schaeffer is a no no....
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Trading Schaeffer is a no no....
LOL....I agree...We yell for 4-5 years build the line, we finally do have some depth, and people wanna start wheeling & dealing the guys, I believe some people just like to rebuild and hear thier own voice's complaining about it.
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Trading O-linemen? I can't even imagine how good our O-line would be that we would be trading them away for anything else but more O-linemen.  Schaeffer for Walter Jones you say? Sign me up 
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At what point does the cap become an issue though? Assuming Schaeffer is a flop on the right side 36 mill might be to much for depth. His contract pretty much dictates that he either has to start somewhere or go I would think. We have a lot of money wrapped up in the offense the last few years.
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C'mon, we are clearly in good cap shape, if we can trade up for a round one QB, and take a #3 overall player.
Phil knows what he is doing, that's why we dumped droughns.
*NOT SAYING this is any of you*
People I hear tell me "Ohh the Rueben Droughns trade was stupid, RD for a WR who can't catch dumb dumb dumb".
O to the contrary, Carter contract is up next year and Rueben wanted to be paid. It was a salary cap move...like I said Phil has done a very good job with our cap, and I expect it to continue.
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Simpley stated:
Ya never have enough quality O or D-lineman starter quality, or back-up quality, an to have one at LT....thats gold, even if he is average.
Agreed, but....
I'd always trade any backup for a needed starter.
Unless we get some surprising progress from some of the kids we've brought in on the DL, the bottom line to me is that we're in far worse shape on the DL than on the OL (feels kinda good to be able to say that).
If we could get a youngish someone on DL who would start anywhere - I'd seriously consider a Shaffer trade.
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i'm not sure how KS doesn't possess what it takes to play RT. Vers, not to take away from what you're saying about his needing help from Druzzi, because you may well know better than i do. but just from what i saw, Druzzi wasn't even helping himself. was it just me, or did anyone else see the interior of the line being the point of penetration from the D?
My comments on him asking for help came from someone on the team. Actually, two people. After I heard that, I started watching for it and it appeared that could have been the case. LOL.......but, it's not like I could lip-read or anything.
Now.........I'm going to apologize because apparently I haven't been making myself clear, either that or you guys have a problem w/reading comprehension. 
Andruzzi did struggle this year. He was nicked up and he was slow to begin with. Fraley was new and is not a physical guy. Coleman is a bum...[hmmm...I could have sworn I typed this before???}, and Tuck was injured much of the year.
So.....yes, the rest of the line struggled and Shaffer was not the sole cause of our problems.
With that said, he was a problem. And when you have a problem at LT, your entire team is going to suffer.
Concerning the interior of the line allowing pressure. Yes, they gave up penetration all on their own, but do you see how the interior was compromised because Shaffer was asking for help from Andruzzi? This made slow guys even more vulnerable. And when you are already struggling, the last thing you want to hear is "help."
Picture this..........you are climbing the face of a cliff and you ain't that good at it, whether it be from lack of experience, technique, old age, physical ability, or a combo of any of the above. You are struggling to maintain contact w/the rock. You're clawing, gripping, slipping, fighting....trying to survive, when suddenly the guy beside or below you calls out for help. Well....that's the last f........ing thing you wanna hear. It's like..........I'm gonna save his lame ass, but I'm gonna die, or at least my QB/RB may, as the case may be. 
Now, combine this w/talk about how Shaffer did not embrace the teaching of the required techniques and instead was a weight room warrior and you can see why there were some problems w/in the unit.
Btw............this has been a pretty cool thread. Thanks guys.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I Love You Man"...
Go Browns!!!
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C'mon, we are clearly in good cap shape,
Think about it for a minute. Winslow 40 mill, Edwards 60 mill, Thomas 60 mill, Steinback 50 mill, Bentley 36 mill, Shaeffer 36 mill. We might be fine as we go into the season this year, but these cap hits are adding up quickly. And more players are added every year. At some point we need to start spending some money on defense also. I am sticking to my guns on this one. For 36 million Schaeffer has to be starting somewhere. Its way to much for depth.
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Well the two at the end of your list, and even possibly the *EDIT* second will have to restructure eventuall at this rate.
We don't have to trade them, just make them restructure.
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Well the two at the end of your list, and even possibly the *EDIT* second will have to restructure eventuall at this rate.
We don't have to trade them, just make them restructure.
Definitely a possibility, and I certainly wouldnt mind keeping Schaeffer as depth if its possible.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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We just paid a top flight G over 49 mil So is a decent RT at 36 mil really so "overpaid" considering that?
I think he'd be overpaid no matter where he plays, but we don't need the money and have no good reason to dump him after one year. Heck, we don't even know if Thomas will come into camp on time.
That being said, if the Giants offered a 2nd, I'd take it. We could trade two '08 2nds to get back into the 1st.
We would never get a 2nd for Kevin, or a 3rd for that matter.
Given his contract situation and realistic trade value, don't expect KS to be moved to another team anytime soon.
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i understand the concet of help, and how it takes away from what one is doing one's self, and the magnification of the problem when one is incompetent in the first place, but i do appreciate the remedial lesson in such simple language, and the relevant example.
what i'm saying here is - in spite of the excuses you apparently heard other guys on the line give out, Druzzi wasn't even helping himself, let alone taking care of his assignment as well as lending help to Shaffer.
so since i didn't see Druzzi helping out Shaffer, you can't really convince me that it was Shaffer's fault that Druzzi stunk up the place, and vise versa.
WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!
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I really dont get this fascination around here that has grown around Schaeffer and possibly being a RT. For one the guy has never played RT as far as I know. And the only evidence to suggest he would be good there is that he isnt so great at LT? Did we learn nothing from history? Butch Davis moved guys all over the line and wrecked multiple positions because of one injury. Being a mediocre LT does not make you a good RT.
Well I seriously doubt anybody is SOLD on Shaffer as our RT,but it's certainly a possibility to consider.
His skill set is much better suited at RT than LT. His run blocking is better than his pass protection,but still nothing spectacular. However,you don't need to be a "great pass protector" to play RT. The main question is can he handle the change over to RT.
And the initial signs point to "yes" IMO. Most NFL RT's were LT's in college that just weren't quite good enough to play LT. So most ALL of the converted from LT to RT successfully. So it IS a proven way to get NFL RT's.
And you talk about Butch "shuffling the OL"? Yes,from WEEK to WEEK because of injuries! He didn't plan it in advance and work an entire off season to make that switch. Apples & oranges there.
So I'm not saying moving Shaffer to RT will be a success. But as I stated,almost ALL NFL Rt's were college LT's. So this isn't some crazy theory or a move from one position to another on a week's notice as you're trying to compare it to.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I really dont get this fascination around here that has grown around Schaeffer and possibly being a RT. For one the guy has never played RT as far as I know. And the only evidence to suggest he would be good there is that he isnt so great at LT? Did we learn nothing from history? Butch Davis moved guys all over the line and wrecked multiple positions because of one injury. Being a mediocre LT does not make you a good RT.
Well I seriously doubt anybody is SOLD on Shaffer as our RT,but it's certainly a possibility to consider.
His skill set is much better suited at RT than LT. His run blocking is better than his pass protection,but still nothing spectacular. However,you don't need to be a "great pass protector" to play RT. The main question is can he handle the change over to RT.
And the initial signs point to "yes" IMO. Most NFL RT's were LT's in college that just weren't quite good enough to play LT. So most ALL of the converted from LT to RT successfully. So it IS a proven way to get NFL RT's.
And you talk about Butch "shuffling the OL"? Yes,from WEEK to WEEK because of injuries! He didn't plan it in advance and work an entire off season to make that switch. Apples & oranges there.
So I'm not saying moving Shaffer to RT will be a success. But as I stated,almost ALL NFL Rt's were college LT's. So this isn't some crazy theory or a move from one position to another on a week's notice as you're trying to compare it to.
JMHO
Pit makes alot of good points here, but as i keep saying (and i'm sure some might be getting tired of me doing so ) Shaffer was essentially playing RT at the LT spot in Atlanta. The only different thing is the kickback, he would be going against the type of DE's that he was most succesful against when he was in Atlanta. Pit's argument combined with this fact is what makes me optimistic (not certain though) that he could make the switch.
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shaffer can move to right gaurd and we have an above average online...for once
Tucker is our starting RG now. He's a much better fit inside than Shaffer since he has more power and his pass blocking skills to date aren't what Shaffer's are. Shaffer and Thomas are good young bookends for us to put Quinn behind
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Pit makes alot of good points here, but as i keep saying (and i'm sure some might be getting tired of me doing so ) Shaffer was essentially playing RT at the LT spot in Atlanta.
I'm SURE they're tired of hearing it because I have been saying it since we signed the guy.
I was one of a few that warned everyone not to get overly optimistic about signing him. Because he was basicly a RT because of playing for a left handed QB.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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if the browns think that kevin shaffer can successfully make the switch to RT, than i think you don't make that trade, unless you're getting something really awesome back...
i kinda figured this would be talked about, just because of the money we have invested in our offensive line... it's gotta be one of the most expensive in the league if you factor in bentley...
shaffer played the left side last year and struggled, i think he can make the switch, i say keep him...
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HOLY GOD IN HEAVEN I AGREE WITH KEYLIME ON SOMETHING!!!! i never thought i'd see the day!
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Just clicking,, I'm amazed this thread is getting as much play as it is,, It's a rumor reported by a guy who heard it from another guy who heard it from another guy,,, For all we know, they are talking to Shaffer right now and saying,, dude, you are cut Or they could be talking to him saying, Dude, you are our new RT (insert RG if you wish) Or, they might not be worried about it at all and will let the chips fall where they may come camp.. I know you guys are gonna hate me for saying this, but Thomas still has to beat Shaffer out for the job at LT... for the record, I believe he can do that with one hand tied behind his back and blindfolded, but he still has to do it. So until he does, Shaffer is our LT! (yeah, right)
#GMSTRONG
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Does the decision to move Shaffer to RT have to be made today? Heck no. There are four months before the season begins...OTA's, training camp, preseason...there is plenty of time to work him in at RT. Then he doesn't have to start there when the regular season begins. We have Tuck to start and play until KS is ready.
No rush to trade anyone at this point. Give the coaches the opportunity to put together a strong OL with depth. Enjoy the riches everyone.
[color:"red"]"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."
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I know you guys are gonna hate me for saying this, but Thomas still has to beat Shaffer out for the job at LT. . .
i hate you for saying that.
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If we trade Shaffer the right side of the line begins to look much weaker, and in fact worse than last year and IMO, if Phil were seriously considering trading him, we would've drafted a guard at some point.
Just a question.
If we went into the next season with the same guys on the right side how would that make it worse than last year???
I would think that the interest is more on the Giants side of the equation than it is ours. I think Phil feels pretty good about the O-line right now and would be content to see if Shaffer can make the switch. Although if we can get something good in return it might not be bad in the long term. No matter what I dont think Phil's long term plan is to pay a right tackle left tackle money.
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Shaffer was essentially playing RT at the LT spot in Atlanta.
Yea, Pit likes to bring that up alot. But at the end of the day. He was on the left with a gaurd on his right, no matter what hand the QB picks his nose with. This isnt a young guy who can still be messed with alot. He is what he is. I dont know if you play golf, but if you do and your a righty, try hitting as a lefty for a day and you will see my concerns with it. Sure you still know what to do, but all the sudden your not very coordinated doing it.
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so since i didn't see Druzzi helping out Shaffer, you can't really convince me that it was Shaffer's fault that Druzzi stunk up the place, and vise versa.
No problem.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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If the Browns trade him, it really puts the Browns back in the same position they were in before the draft.. that would be a bad move IMO..
KEEP HIM!! HES GOOD!! BETTER THAN GOOD!!
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j/c...
no link prolly come in the morning, but i am watching the sunday strategy on sports time ohio, grossi just said shaffers agent told him he will ask for a trade
![[Linked Image from img413.imageshack.us]](http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4226/bentleysigpo1.jpg) Hurry Back LeCharles.
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j/c...
no link prolly come in the morning, but i am watching the sunday strategy on sports time ohio, grossi just said shaffers agent told him he will ask for a trade
I saw this too.... The next few weeks are going to be interesting. I wonder why he is not willing to switch from LT to RT. This can only get worse. Sounds like we might have a Lance Briggs on our hands. Shaffer could refuse to play....
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HOLY GOD IN HEAVEN I AGREE WITH KEYLIME ON SOMETHING!!!! i never thought i'd see the day!
Whats next? PhilDawsonRocks joins the Army?
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I wonder why he is not willing to switch from LT to RT.
If Bentley is really back this year he probably wouldnt even be starting unless he could beat out Tucker at RT. He might not be happy having to compete for a job.
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I wonder why he is not willing to switch from LT to RT.
If Bentley is really back this year he probably wouldnt even be starting unless he could beat out Tucker at RT. He might not be happy having to compete for a job.
That and Left Tackles generally make more money in the long run. If he plays RT for us and in a few years we cut him teams will look at him as a RT and not a LT, maybe.
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The more I think about this I think Phil needs to tell Shaffer he's a Brown and that's that. If the Giants want to give way over his actual value (like next years first rounder then fine) but look at last year. We sign Bentley and Faine was upset and wanted out of town. We obliged and traded with NO for a pick and got Jackson. Well Bentley got hurt and even though we eventually got Hank, Faine would of been better.
We have some depth. Shaffer should be able to play RT, RG or LT. Tucker should be able to play RT and RG. Thomas should be able to play RT or LT. I'd tell him to suck it up and we need him.
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FYI
I read on The OBR Insider that we asked the Giants for a 4th in this years draft or a 3rd in next years, and they thought that was way to much and didn't even make a counter offer.
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Actually, this move might mean that the Browns are not looking at having him change positions and looking at McKinnie and Tucker as the starters. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Schaffer trade????????????
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