DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum NBA / Cavs Discussion II

I have heard that trade used as a reason why so many absolutely ridiculous conditions and protections are on seemingly every traded draft pick today. No one expected that Clippers pick to wind up being #1 overall, and no team wants to be the next one to make such an enormous mistake.

I don't think picks were ever protected prior to that trade.

I'm becoming irritated with the Hawks love afair. They are NOT the Spurs. Maybe a poor mans version, but not the Spurs.

Yes they were. People at the time were saying how dumb the Clippers were for not putting any type of "Top 3" protection on that pick. But at the time, I think they were gunning for a shot at the playoffs and figured the 2% or less chance of a lottery win didn't really matter.

Why?

I gotta admit. I am really ashamed. Extremely ashamed.

I had a chance to get some decent tickets and go to yesterday's game, but I turned it down and stayed home and watched it. It would have been amazing to witness Irving's game live, see him make history and be able to say "yeah I was there when he did that".

SO FREAKING ASHAMED!

Because they don't have a big three like SA does. They don't have as good of a coach. They haven't had success in the past---which, believe it or not, actually means something.

Hoford, Teague, Milllsap, and Korver are just as good as Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, and Leonard at this point.

Their coach was Pop's assistant for years and built the Spurs' offense.

They do not have past success, but neither does anyone else in the east.

Uh no.. just.. no..

So you don't watch the NBA?

I don't think anyone will argue that they are playing great basketball. But they'll need to win something before they earn the title of just as good as those guys.

Let's put it this way -- so far this season the Hawks guys have been better than anyone besides the Warriors and if they continue to play like they are currently playing they will easily make the finals.

Atlanta is playing very well.

But this is one of those, have to see it to believe it, kind of situations..

They (and we) can play great in the regular season all they want..

In a 7 game series.. I don't trust them.. And they don't know that they can trust themselves yet..

Right now, Atlanta is probably playing better basketball than anyone in the NBA. They are 1st in defense, allowing only 96.3 PPG, and are scoring 103.6 per game, which is 6th. They are doing a lot of things really well. I don't know how much talent they really have, but the results cannot be argued with. They have won a staggering 17 in a row, and it is obvious that they have embraced the changes the new coach has brought in. They shoot the ball extremely well, checking in at over 47% from the floor so far this season.

I am quite certain that they are playing about 2 miles over their heads at this point. However, they have confidence, and they also have a veteran team. They are playing extremely well together, which is exactly what they needed, and they have been healthy. (which is vital) In his last 3 season, Horford has played 11, 77, and 29 games. His being on the court has been extremely important. Teague and Milsap have each been very good. However, they are not putting up once in a lifetime type numbers. The team, however, is playing extremely well as a unit, and their defense has been extremely good.

The most important aspect of their success is that they really haven't added any impact players. This is largely the same team this year as it was last year. They got Horford back healthy, and that is probably their biggest "add".

It will be interesting to see how they handle adversity, when it appears. From what I can tell, they have enjoyed great health this season, How will it impact them if one of their bigger pieces misses a few games?

I also think about how the Cavaliers had to shut Lebron down for 2 weeks. He missed what .... 8 games? We lost what .. all of them? Losing Lebron on top of losing Andy really damaged this team. However, if Lebron had not had to miss those games, and we had only split those 8 games, we would be 31-16, and only 1/2 game out of 2nd place.

Are you just gonna ignore how Parker has played at an MVP level the last 2-3 years and how Kawhi was the NBA Finals MVP? Who on ATL comes close to that?

Wait a minute...I always assumed cfrs lived in the Monrovia north of LA. But sometimes multiple states will have the same cities. Isn't there a Cleveland, TN? And I think a handful of states have an Oxford. As well as an Athens. I lived in Atlanta for 8 years, and I don't recall a Monrovia, but there is so much urban sprawl there maybe they've added one.

Monrovia EAST of Los Angeles. Not north. Get it right.

Parker was such an MVP candidate that he finished 12th in voting after the 2013-14 season. In 2012-13 he finished 8th but had no chance of actually winning (he got no first place votes). In 2011-12 he finished 5th and had five actual first place votes!

In any given NBA season there are only three or four actual MVP candidates (people who have a real chance at winning the award, this year it is Harden, Curry, and Davis so far). Parker was never that guy.

The Hawks this year play like the Spurs. They have a deep roster like the Spurs. Their coach came from the Spurs. They just don't have the longevity and track record of the Spurs.

I'll be damned. I think I had Monrovia confused with Oxnard. I remember driving through Monrovia one time, I thought, on my way to Santa Barbara. You definitely go through Oxnard, but maybe I didn't go through Monrovia.

If you took the 210 freeway you went through Monrovia.

There is, or was?, a Harley dealership there - I could have sworn it was H-D of Monrovia - that I did computer work for a number of times.

I also helped hook up the network and all the computers up the road at the dealership in Victorville.

That was a couple of lifetimes ago, however.

p.s. I am a total basketball neophyte, but I have to say... this team is FUN to watch the past couple of games.

Unfortunately, however, I don't get to see a lot of them at all because I don't have cable/satellite, so I only get the games that I'm able to catch on broadcast TV.



There's something basically wrong with not being able to watch a Cleveland sports team on Cleveland television.

There is a giant Harley store in Baldwin Park, which is like a 15 minute drive.

Victorville is literally in the middle of the desert.

Wait a second. We are talking about my wife's hometown on a Cavs thread on a Brown's board? I'm so confused.

(okay, so she's from Apple Valley, but she lived in Victorville for awhile too and they are neighboring cities where the only other neighbor is cacti)

She's one of the lucky ones that got out.

Why are we talking about the gateway to desert-hell-on-the-drive-to-Vegas (aka Victorville) on a Cavs thread? Some poor soul is going to log in, see 60 new replies on the Cavs thread and think Lebron was traded to the Nets or something.

The King is back in the rotation tonight! GO CAVS!

Irving play half as good as his last game, I'd be happy with that!

Boogie is a monster. Really curious to see how Mosgov does.

Love is making some incredible passes tonight!

If Boogie commits to defense, he will be an MVP candidate and a force in the league. I love how Mosgov is defending him tonight though.

... and he's putting up points.

That's what's so terrifying about defending Lebron. He can struggle and you can defend excellently, but you know he's gonna eventually "get his." Teams need to do what San Antonio did and just let him go off, but stop everyone else.

Anyone else wish that lebron sat out tonight? I'm buying into the, rest lebron as much as possible over the next several years idea.

Nah, if he can play, then he should play. He can take a game here or there off, but it is not the best thing for this team to have him taking games off all the time.

He played 33 minutes tonight, and that is a pretty decent number. Blatt and his staff should work to keep Lebron right around 30 minutes. If they can do that, and give him a game off once a month or so, he should be fine. You don't want to completely screw up developing chemistry by holding players out for no reason.

I was glad to see Love have a big game tonight. He needed it after the past 2 games. Mozgov didn't have a huge game ... but he did have 3 blocks. Man, he helps the internal defense so much, even on nights when he doesn't score as much. There are only going to be so many shots to go around on this team, and his defense is a legitimate reason for him to be on the court, even on nights where he doesn't score a lot.

I forgot to add that JR Smith had another really nice game tonight. 6-12 for 14 points, 3 boards, and 5 assists. That's not bad for a "throw in".

Bulls lose to the Suns tonight, and the Cavaliers move even closer to 4th in the East. If not for that 8 game losing streak while Lebron was out, we would probably be in 3rd, or maybe even 2nd place in the East right now.

We can't afford to keep him there, he's a difference maker and Irving can't do everything. The new faces Smith and Shumpert are coming on though on putting up points.

I do agree though, rest the King when you can cause it seems when he gets rest, he comes back and plays amazing. These easy opponent games are where we could likely get away with keeping him on the bench.

Cousins is currently above-average defensively. He was even better before they fired their coach.

I knew that Mozgov and Smith had made a huge impact on this team, but this is really amazing. (and Shumpert is also playing well on defense as well, in his limited minutes)

I am also so impressed with how Kyrie has come on of late on the defensive end. I think that having that huge 7'1" body in the middle helps a great deal, but Kyrie is starting to actually become a good defender. Whoda thunk that when the season began?

Terry's Talkin' about how Cleveland Cavaliers defense has improved with Timofey Mozgov and Kyrie Irving: Terry Pluto | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2015/01/terrys_talkin_about_how_the_cl_3.html#incart_river

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- You can become overwhelmed by numbers in the NBA as the stat geeks try to find a way to measure what a player means to his team.

If you look at the basics, Cavaliers center Timofey Mozgov is averaging 9.6 points, 8.9 rebounds and shooting .532 from the field since he joined the team. That was 12 games ago. The Cavs lost their first three with Mozgov, then won the next nine.

Last week, I wrote about how LeBron James loves playing with the 7-foot-1 Russian. The stats show it.

The NBA breaks down things like out-scoring the opposition per 100 possessions. OK, I'll get to the point: In this category, when James and Mozgov play together -- the Cavs are plus-24 points. That's the No. 5 most productive duo in the NBA.

The second best duo on the Cavs? It's Mozgov and Kyrie Irving: 20.1 points.

Here are the next two: Kevin Love and James (17.9) followed by J.R. Smith and Mozgov (16.8).

So Mozgov appears in three of the top four combinations.

As one NBA executive told me, "When Mozgov sets a screen, he sets a screen. That's why the Cavs love it when he comes out and puts a body on someone -- then rolls to the basket."

Perhaps there's some stat about screen-setting, but just watch him play. Mozgov finds a way to spring his teammates open for shots.

Or how about this? Before the recent nine-game winning streak, opponents were shooting .471 vs. the Cavs. That was the second-worst defense in the NBA.

In the last nine games, it's dropped to .424 -- second best in the NBA.

Mozgov is a huge part of this. That's also true for J.R. Smith who has brought some defense to shooting guard. You also can see how Iman Shumpert will help defending guards. He is still coming off a shoulder injury and playing limited minutes.

The Cavs were one of the NBA's worst defensive teams before the trades for Mozgov, Shumpert and Smith. Now, they are among the best. We'll see if it continues, but the change has been stunning.

In the meantime, they are scoring 110 points a game in the nine-game winning streak.

ABOUT KYRIE IRVING

Someone probably has missed his first seven shots in a game and ended up with 50 points, but I have no clue who did until it happened to Kyrie Irving. He threw in 55 points as the Cavs beat Portland (99-94) on Wednesday while James rested his sprained wrist.

Irving's defense has been superb lately. In the last nine games, opposing point guards have averaged only 12 points and shot 30 percent when defended by Irving.

That includes some stars. Consider this list and how they shot when defended by Irving:

Chris Paul, 4-of-15 shooting.
Derrick Rose, 5-of-14 shooting.
Russell Westbrook, 7-of-26 shooting.
Damian Lillard, 4-of-16 shooting.
In that same nine-game span, Irving is averaging 27 points and shooting 53 percent.

So he is outscoring his man by 15 points a game!

Irving has been working hard on his defense all season. He was perhaps the first player to strongly buy into new coach David Blatt. This is Irving's third coach and he's only been in the NBA for four seasons.

Someone who knows Irving told me that the 22-year-old Irving really didn't want to endure another coaching change. He was quick to gain a comfort level with Blatt and assistant coach Tyronn Lue.

The person also said that when Irving signed a five-year, $90 million contract extension on July 1, he was making a commitment to the Cavs. He wanted it to work. He hoped that LeBron James would sign with the team, but there were no guarantees. Blatt and Lue were part of the Cavs contingent to recruit Irving.

It was Owner Dan Gilbert and General Manager David Griffin who did most of the work selling Irving on a different future for the Cavs. Obviously, the maximum contract was a huge chip -- the Cavs could pay him $20 million or more than any other team.

But more than once, a player has signed a maximum contract -- and then still been an attitude problem because he didn't really want to stay with the team.

Irving has been upbeat from the moment he signed the deal, and then played for the USA National Team. It was in the summer where he began to concentrate on defense -- and take some pleasure from it.

And it has continued with the Cavs.

Irving has been willing to allow James to handle the ball, not an easy sacrifice for most point guards who have made an All-Star team. Irving has worked hard on moving without the ball to get open and catch passes from James for jump shots.

In other words, Irving often plays like a shooting guard -- a new role for him. It also was a role that Dion Waiters could never do. Waiters needed the have the ball -- a lot.

Irving has been named to his third All-Star team. He's averaging 22.6 points, shooting .467 (.413 on 3-pointers). Those are All-Star numbers. But his improved defense and willingness to learn a new role on offense has made this his best season of all.

ABOUT THE CAVS

1. Mozgov has a $4.9 million team option for the 2015-16 season. So the center can't be a free agent until the summer of 2016. You can be sure the Cavs will pick up that option.

2. J.R. Smith has a $6.3 million player option for 2015-16. It's not clear if he will pick up his own option, or if he will decide to become an unrestricted free agent.

3. Iman Shumpert can be a restricted free agent this summer, meaning the Cavs can match any offer that he receives.

4. Andrew Wiggins is playing very well in Minnesota, averaging 15.1 points. In the month of January, it's 19.2 points and .465 rebounds. That has led some Cavs fans to wonder if it was wise to trade Wiggins, Anthony Bennett and 2015 first-rounder to Minnesota for Kevin Love. The real answer will come in the playoffs -- how does Love perform in the postseason?

5. Love is averaging 17.1 points and 10.3 rebounds. Pretty numbers, but not for him. He is shooting only .424 from the field. But the Cavs have benefited from his 10 rebounds a night. Without the 6-foot-10 Love, they would be a very small team.

6. Bennett continues to struggle in his second pro season. He is averaging 5.6 points and 4.0 rebounds and shooting .423 from the field in 16 minutes a game for Minnesota. He also has had some minor injuries. The Wolves are a bad team and there are minutes and shots available. Wiggins has grabbed them and produced. Bennett has not.

7. Part of the reason Denver traded Mozgov is because they have a young center named Jusuf Nurkic. The Bosnian is 6-11, 280 pounds. He moved into the lineup after Mozgov departed, and is averaging 6.8 points and 7.9 rebounds in 23 minutes a game, shooting 40 percent. He's only 20 and very raw. but the Nuggets believe he'll mature into a good pivot man. They also wanted the two future first-rounders that the Cavs sent their way.

We've turned JR Smith into a solid 3 point shooter and wing defender. I don't want him on the bench anymore because he gives us 3 point shooting to space the floor. Unlike Dion, he doesn't force himself to score everytime he touches it.