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As of right now, there's no way I'd sacrifice any O-line depth. I think it'd be crazy considering the O-line problems we've had in the past.
That said, I our depth is MUCH better, especially if Bentley comes back healthy this year, but that's a stretch hoping that he will be.
Imagine a former starter like Shaffer coming off the bench in the event of a tackle injury (knocking on wood so it doesn't happen), and a guy like McKinney coming off the bench in the event of a guard injury. (If Bentley is back).
That has to excite all of us who wanted to throw up over our line last year.
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J/C
I do have to say it is nice for once being able to debate whether or not we should trade a potential starter on the OLine.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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who is this kid.. lol.. a 7th round pick with the balls to request a trade.. lol..
be quiet and strap up... WORK!! and work HARD!!
what are you talking about??? schafer getting drafted in the 7th rd has nothing to do with anything. all he did was ask to be traded. a lot of players do this. if savage could get good value for schafer I'm sure he'll try to move him. don't want to have a disgruntled player on the team if you don't have to.
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first of all.. it was a joke.. tried to sound like kobe when he was talking about raja bell..
and i dont think we are going to get much for him.. so i doubt if we let him go to another team... i personally dont think that he can afford to act like this.. again.. he is good, but he's not a known name.
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Phil will make a bunch of moves between now and draft day 2008 , trying to get us back in round one or a couple of very high seconds ! 
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first of all.. it was a joke.. tried to sound like kobe when he was talking about raja bell..
and i dont think we are going to get much for him.. so i doubt if we let him go to another team... i personally dont think that he can afford to act like this.. again.. he is good, but he's not a known name.
I think we can find a desperate team. The problem is if his trade value plummets like Hank Fraley's did last year (where he was gonna be released anyway).
The fact that Shaffer's position is left tackle helps, regardless of whether or not he's elite.
I trade him if and only if we can get a pick that'll give us some ammo to get back into the first next year.
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j/c
He is in no real danger of being released, so if a team desperately wants him, they'll have to deal. Waiting for us to cut him won't pay off.
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. i personally dont think that he can afford to act like this..
I'm just a tad confused here?
Acting like what?
From my understanding,he simply feels he MAY be able to play LT as a starter elsewhere. Considering the Giants situation at the present time,he may be correct.
So his agent "asked permission to seek a trade"
I don't see Shaffer "acting like anything". No statements saying he's unhappy. No refusal to play. No threat not to report to camp.
I haven't heard one "negative statement" from Shaffer. Have any of you? From my understanding,his agent is following "proper procedure" by asking the Browns "if they can seek a trade". Nothing more and nothing less.
Why do people percieve that as him having a bad attitude or as him "not wanting to be here"? I mean his agent does have an agenda and this is Shaffers career. So can you blame him for SIMPLY "asking permission" to explore his options?
I think PPE summed it up when he said he felt this was "overblown".
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I think PPE summed it up when he said he felt this was "overblown".
Common Cleveland media & fans overblow a players situation.... 
People really jumping to conclusion here, talking before they get all the facts, making things up to fit thier story or situation. 
That dosent happen here..... 
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Pit, man, wake up *L*
Shaffer is insulted that we took Thomas. It's a direct indictment just one ounce short of coming right out in the media and saying this:
"KEVIN SHAFFER FAILED AS OUR LEFT TACKLE. WE HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO TAKE THOMAS. AS A RESULT OF HIS FAILURES, WE'RE GOING TO LET HIM COMPETE WITH RYAN TUCKER. IF HE FAILS, WE'LL MOVE HIM TO GUARD."
So his pride is hurt and he wants out. That's exactly how he's acting.
Now here's the problem. He's not a very good left tackle (like you didn't know that already *L*). In a league where decent left tackles are worth gold, we can't get a 1st day pick for this stiff. He's a right tackle playing out of position, and needs to be moved. He's going to get over this and play where he's told because he's unlikely to get the kind of deal we gave him.
This whole thing has gotten WAY out of hand. When camps start, he's going to compete on the right side with Tucker at tackle and with McKinney at guard. He has the leg up on McKinney simply because of the money we're paying him and his durability (one of his rare attributes).
He's hurt and offended. He'll get over it.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Like I said,how is he acting?What has he said? What has he done? I didn't say his pride wasn't hurt. As a matter of fact,I SAID he felt he may be able to help himself by making a move and wanted to explore his options. But people act like he's "Briggs" or something. That's simply not the case to this juncture. He hasn't let his "bruised pride" cause him to make public rants or innane statements to the press. He hasn't made threats of holding out.What public statements has he made? Maybe you can fill me in here? In fact Toad,he hasn't DONE anything accept his agent followed the proper channels of requesting permission to seek a trade. Are you trying to dispute that? 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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toad i completely agree and this probaly has more to do with his agent than Shaffer. if Leonard Davis can get a contract like that why cant Kevin Shaffer since Shaffer has outplayed him? thats the line of thinking folks and to be honest I dont know if it has a damn thing to do with having to compete with Tucker at RT. Its about getting Shaffer some of that big free agent money that was spent on c and d level players.
I am sure the first thing to happen would be the agent saying well we need to work out a new deal to make this trade happen. I think a 25 mil signing bonus sounds about right lol
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if Leonard Davis can get a contract like that why cant Kevin Shaffer since Shaffer has outplayed him? Dang he already got a hefty contract..what more U want?   Put him on the right side and keep the depth we have.
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JK...
The Browns have seen what can happen to a teams offensive line in training camp...injuries happen every year during training camp and preseason games.
Keeping Shaffer adds depth for the Browns and his trade value only goes up from this point forward as injuries will happen, but hopefully not to the Browns.
The worst case scenario for the Browns, Shaffer sets on the bench as depth.
I believe Savage will move Shaffer if and when the price is right.
Hopefully, Shaffer will be patient and work hard which can only help his case...to find a new team.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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I don't think that's the case here Mourg. He JUST signed that contract. Not even Walter Jones would get a new deal the year after signing one of this length. He just wants the glory of being able to say he plays the elite offensive line position in the NFL.
It's hard for these egomaniacs to admit they aren't good enough at something. The Thomas selection represents a failure for Necktie. Instead of swallowing his pride and doing the right thing, he's taken the stance that he wants to take his ball and go elsewhere.
Pit. You used the word "semantics" earlier. Very apropro *L*
He doesn't have to "act" out in the public eye in order to "act" the wrong way. Asking for a trade is the sign of a quitter. He's going to find that he doesn't have that much trade value and will have to compete at another position, just as he was always meant to be (self-congratulatory statement off *L*).
What I dispute is that he's not doing anything wrong. He asks for help on the left side because he can't carry his weight, everyone in the league knows he's a below-average left tackle, yet now he wants out because we drafted a better one, when his ultimate destiny here was to be moved over? This isn't news to him. He always knew he wasn't long for the position. Because of that, I can't call this a sudden burst of negative emotion. He was prepared for this, and the moment Thomas was drafted, Necktie and his agent went to work.
THAT'S how he's acting.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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In a perfect world this would happen and BE SOLID:
LT-Thomas
LG-Steinbach
C-Fraley
RG-Tucker
RT-Shaffer
Backups..
Dorsey
Friedman
McKinney
Butler
Sowells
Smith
Matua
What other names?
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Phil will make a bunch of moves between now and draft day 2008 , trying to get us back in round one or a couple of very high seconds !
Yeah, if we're lucky Shaffer will suck it up and play right taclke this season and then we can trade him and our 2nd rounder next year to move into the 20s in late round one. Maybe we can grab a back like Jonathan Stewart or Felix Jones in that scenario.
I just hope Shaffer sticks it out this year and doesn't hold out. Moving Tucker to guard would give us four good pass blocking tackles in essence around Fraley. I like the idea of Tucker/Shaffer on the right side better than McKinney/Tucker.
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In a perfect world this would happen and BE SOLID:
LT-Thomas
LG-Steinbach
C-Fraley
RG-Tucker
RT-Shaffer
No... In a PERFECT world... Bentley would be back this year
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Quote:
Quote:
In a perfect world this would happen and BE SOLID:
LT-Thomas
LG-Steinbach
C-Fraley
RG-Tucker
RT-Shaffer
No... In a PERFECT world... Bentley would be back this year
BAH! In a perfect world Bentley would never have gotten hurt.
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I was just talking about the mindset of the agent lol I like Shaffer probaly more than anyone on this board but he wasnt worth what we paid him last year to be quiet honest but you just cant afford to dump someone that quick after giving him a 12 million signing bonus unless he is a team cancer and I dont see Shaffer as that kind of player.
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HE KEVIN SHAFFER MISTAKE by Michael David Smith We noted yesterday that left tackle Kevin Shaffer wants out of Cleveland, even though it was just last year that he signed a seven-year, $36 million contract with $12 million in signing and option bonuses. By drafting Joe Thomas with the third overall pick, the Browns basically conceded that signing Shaffer last year was a mistake. But we should also note that every team in the league could learn a valuable lesson from the Browns' mistake in signing Shaffer. That lesson, which all 32 teams probably know but sometimes forget, is that just because a guy plays well on another team doesn't mean he's a good fit on your team. When the Browns gave Shaffer that big contract, he was coming off a very good 2005 season in Atlanta. He started all 16 games for the Falcons and was one of the major reasons that Atlanta led the league in rushing. (Yes, Warrick Dunn and Michael Vick were big reasons for that, too.) That's what made him so attractive to the Browns' front office, but they apparently never considered just how different their own offensive approach was from the Falcons'. Shaffer thrived in 2005 because the Atlanta offensive line was using the zone blocking schemes coached by Alex Gibbs. In that system, linemen need to be quick, but they don't need to be particularly strong -- and that meant Shaffer was a good fit. Unfortunately, the Browns' offense didn't use Gibbs' blocking scheme, and Shaffer was a bad fit, which is why the Browns drafted his replacement. Asking Shaffer to move seamlessly from the Falcons' offense to the Browns' would be like asking Vick to join the Colts and run their offense the same way Peyton Manning does. But that's what the Browns did, and a year later they are regretting it. Link
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BAH! In a perfect world Bentley would never have gotten hurt.
and Couch woulda panned out. as well as Courtney. and Big Money. and my stripper girlfriend in college wouldn't have cheated on me. and every other thing that has killed all our woes and dreams wouldn't have happened.
dag nabbit, i wish it were a perfect world.
![[Linked Image from s84.photobucket.com]](http://s84.photobucket.com/albums/k4/okphi1124/th_untitled.jpg) WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!
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Asking Shaffer to move seamlessly from the Falcons' offense to the Browns' would be like asking Vick to join the Colts and run their offense the same way Peyton Manning does. 
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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nrtu...but I did not want to start a new post on this...yet.
I just looked at our 2006 roster from NFL.com and counted 14 OL on the roster.
That included LCB, Hoffman, Lougheed, Matua, and Rob Smith - listed here because I believe they were inactive all year.
So...I'm guessing we had (9) OL on the active roster.
If we peeked at 2007 and figured we'd keep (10), is this what we might have as "sure things":
Thomas
Steinbach
Fraley
Tucker
Shaffer
McKinney - C/G
Freidman - C/G
Butler - T
Sowells - G/T
Andruzzi - G/C
Lougheed, Hoffman, Rob Smith, and the Pouloss (sp?) could be practice squad guys...assuming I've got the eligibility down correctly.
This aces out Dorsey (who is our only other experienced T), Coleman (no surprise), & Matua and assumes that LCB won't be back.
I posted this to generate some thinking along the lines of actually having the luxury to trade Shaffer...IF the price is right.
IF Sowells/Dorsey can get it together...even a little bit...and Tucker gets his meds worked out, the opportunity to trade Shaffer becomes very palatable. Move Tuck back to T while grooming Sowels or Pouloss and move McKinney to starting G while keeping the best C/G as depth.
I don't really WANT to trade Shaffer, but I thought we should throw out some names and numbers into this discussion.
Where are the OL gurus on this board?
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i'm almost wondering if we won't dump andruzzi. he has most definately been replaced in the starting lineup, and i don't know if we don't already have someone to jump ahead of him as a backup.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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In that system, linemen need to be quick, but they don't need to be particularly strong
i agree about this part...
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-- and that meant Shaffer was a good fit. Unfortunately, the Browns' offense didn't use Gibbs' blocking scheme, and Shaffer was a bad fit, which is why the Browns drafted his replacement.
i gotta disagree with ya on this part....
shaffer isn't quick..he is strong though.....he handles the bull rush well its the quick guys that get around him....
he succeeded in atlanta because he was blocking for a left handed qb, which means that they would have been putting the quick pass rusher on the other side away from shaffer....
he in essence was the RT there...
basically we are moving towards quick linemen that can pull and get to the second level....thats not shaffer....he will be fine at RT or RG, but stien, and thomas will be able to get where ever they need too....fraley is good at getting to the second level imo....heck if betley is healthy that will mean the RG is quick too....
right now he's gotta beat out tucker....or play RG if bent's ain't ready....otherwise he's on the pine until tuck is done....
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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I posted this to generate some thinking along the lines of actually having the luxury to trade Shaffer...IF the price is right.
The luxury is being able to keep Shaffer. The rest of that list past the supposed starters is weak. I wouldn't want any of them to start at any time during the season.
Shaffer will make 800,000 plus this year. Unless we get a first day pick next year, it would be foolish to move him. Releasing or cutting him would be down right assinine.
Having two players, three if you count Steinbach, who can start at left tackle is a luxury any team would strive to keep.
The man wants to start, who wouldn't? His ego is bruised, in time, when the paychecks keep coming in and he has a nice cushy seat on the bench, he'll be fine.
Think about it, if you were the starter and the team replaced you, what would you do? I believe most would do just what Shaffer is doing.
Asking for a trade doesn't make you a team cancer. Acting out during camp or the season does.
The funny thing, is that if Thomas wouldn't have been available this year, nobody would be bashing Shaffer the way they are. With a shiny new replacement and overblown comments about his attitude, as usual, it's time to pile on.
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gotta disagree with ya on this part....
shaffer isn't quick..he is strong though.....he handles the bull rush well its the quick guys that get around him....
he succeeded in atlanta because he was blocking for a left handed qb, which means that they would have been putting the quick pass rusher on the other side away from shaffer....
he in essence was the RT there...
basically we are moving towards quick linemen that can pull and get to the second level....thats not shaffer....he will be fine at RT or RG, but stien, and thomas will be able to get where ever they need too....fraley is good at getting to the second level imo....heck if betley is healthy that will mean the RG is quick too....
right now he's gotta beat out tucker....or play RG if bent's ain't ready....otherwise he's on the pine until tuck is done....
Makes sense to me. Thanks. Lets hope he changes his mind and gets with the program as team player and plays where we need him the most. I would think this season it being at RG. JMHO
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Would you trade him for a 2nd rounder next year? How about a 1st?
I would...and I agree with everything you posted in reponse to my post.
IF the price is right...he looks very tradeable to me.
Now...I don't expect that we could get a 1 or 2 for him but if we could...wow! A 3 or later is simply not enough and I keep him for all the reasons you stated.
Just trying to spark some debate with throwing in some additional information.
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i'm almost wondering if we won't dump andruzzi. he has most definately been replaced in the starting lineup, and i don't know if we don't already have someone to jump ahead of him as a backup.
well, it seems iminent, and that means Kev will likely not be traded.
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Would you trade him for a 2nd rounder next year? How about a 1st?
Now...I don't expect that we could get a 1 or 2 for him but if we could...wow! A 3 or later is simply not enough and I keep him for all the reasons you stated.
Randy Moss only garnered a 4th round pick. Teams cling dearly to draft choices. I would be simply AMAZED if someone offered a 1st or 2nd round pick. I would be surprised for anyone to offer a 3rd round pick.
I think Shaffer is going to be in Cleveland whether he likes it or not.
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I agree...but part of the reason Moss only netted a 4th is due to $$$ and the risk that he continues to decline and cannot stop being such a jackass in general. Shaffer is what he is...a starting LT. The real point I am failing to make is that Shaffer will have no choice but to suck it up and play hard for the Browns - at RG, RT, or backup LT - ...unless someone does something very, very desperate.
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why you wouldn;t want to be part of building a Super Bwol contender from the ground up, i'll never know - even if your role is that of a back up.
WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!
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Quote:
Quote:
Would you trade him for a 2nd rounder next year? How about a 1st?
Now...I don't expect that we could get a 1 or 2 for him but if we could...wow! A 3 or later is simply not enough and I keep him for all the reasons you stated.
Randy Moss only garnered a 4th round pick. Teams cling dearly to draft choices. I would be simply AMAZED if someone offered a 1st or 2nd round pick. I would be surprised for anyone to offer a 3rd round pick.
I think Shaffer is going to be in Cleveland whether he likes it or not.
I understand what your saying Merth but then I see guys like Wes Welker netting a team a 2nd and a 4th. I think it has more to do with what people think of Moss than it does anything else.
If he was even a good LT like he thinks he is we would probably get a nice pick because the position is so hard to fill. The problem is he isn't so he will probably be a Brown next year.
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why you wouldn;t want to be part of building a Super Bwol contender from the ground up, i'll never know - even if your role is that of a back up.
I can answer that - pride. Shaffer is used to playing LT - the most glamorous/highly regarded oline position.
Moving from LT to RG would be like... having steak for dinner every night and then someone taking the steak and saying you could have a bologna sandwhich from now on.
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For 800+K a year, I'd eat balogna.The question will really be whether we are willing to pay the accelereated millions+ as the next years kick in.
We keep him this year and trade/release next year. We still need the depth.
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nrtu
What has anyone seen in Shaeffer that makes them think he'd be good guard?
He's strong,that's good.
He's not quick,and doesn't have good feet,that's bad.
He's tall,that's bad.
I see him as our backup left and right tackle.If Thomas is as advertized,he'll be starting,and I don't think KS would beat out Tuck on the right side.It's a good position for the Browns to be in.
Oh,teams donot flop thier D-ends when playing against left handed qbs,so he faced the same players in Atl as he faced here.The big difference is Vick,not because he's left handed but because he is one heck of an athlete.
Go back to late in the '05 season and see who was protecting Vick's blindside,it will surprise you.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,751
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,751 |
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Asking for a trade doesn't make you a team cancer. Acting out during camp or the season does.
That was my point exactly.
He isn't in the press whining. He isn't degrading the coach or the FO. He isn't threatenning to hold out of camp. He really isn't doing any damn thing other than having a natural reaction that you would expect when you draft a guys replacement.
But people act like he shot their sister.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,751
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,751 |
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The question will really be whether we are willing to pay the accelereated millions+ as the next years kick in.
We keep him this year and trade/release next year. We still need the depth.
This is the point people are missing. See,his salary INCREASES dramaticly over the next few years. If he is "the weak link in the chain" he won't be around after this year. So if he plays,just for the sake of arguement,RG,will we keep him after this year?
So in his world,he gets one more year and is released as a RG instead of a LT. On the open market in the NFL,he will stand to lose millions being considered a G. THAT'S why he's asking to seek a trade.
There's two sides to this. I'm on the side of our team. But at least I'm objective enough not to ASSume that he's JUST throwing a tantrum.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
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This is the point people are missing. See,his salary INCREASES dramaticly over the next few years.
Negative.
As I've allready covered not only in this thread but another one somewhere, his salary doesn't continue to escalate the way you think:
2007: $815,000, 2008: $2.9 million, 2009: $2.65 million, 2010: $2.9 million, 2011-2012: $3.4 million
Even for a left tackle, his 2008 salary is nothing substantial. Furthermore, it DROPS in 2009. It goes up again in 2010, but only back to the rate of '08.
Because of the escalated salaries and revenue's of the NFL, leading to increases in the cap, Shaffer actually gets CHEAPER as the years go by, relative to the percentage increases of NFL money.
Furthermore, if he's moved to guard for a year, that won't make other teams who are now interested suddenly decide he isn't a left tackle. Hell, the entire world knows he played poorly last year (and I don't give a damn what anyone else says. He's a stiff as a left tackle) yet teams are apparently interested in him as a stopgap player. That wouldn't change if he's moved to guard for a year.
The very bottom line here is that his pride is hurt. BOO-FREAKIN'-HOO! He wants out because he wants the glory and glamour of playing left tackle.
It ain't happenin' unless we get a good pick in trade. The reason we won't get a 2nd rounder? Because Necktie is in the bottom 20% of NFL left tackles.
Necktie is upset because he lost his job. That's it. End of story.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Schaffer trade????????????
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