DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns are set up to fail.

How exactly did it work EO? Farmer's first darft left a LOT to be desired. Three of his top four picks are HEAD CASES. We got NOTHING from two first round picks. Nothing. He passed on two decent QB's that both played for their respective teams last year and took Johnny Hype instead. He passed on a stud WR and took a head case corner that couldn't beat out SKRINE. Man, that's impressive. Think he can repeat that success and take two more first round picks that DON'T produce anything for us in April? He keeps drafting like this and we'll be like the Bengals used to be. With half our team suspended.
And his outright hatred for the WR position is scary in the modern NFL. Is it any wonder we only scored 12 passing touchdowns? Farmer reminds me of Savage. Very ego driven. All the fans loved him, right up until they saw he was terrible.

Ok I hear ya. I just think that given the success rate of experineced coaches, I'm thinking its not a HUGE difference

Sean Payton wasn't a HC before, did a good job right?

Bill Belichick (was with the Browns) wasn't a HC before, did a decent job when you look back on it (in the moment, I think most of us would have hated him more for what he did to BK than anything else)

Chuck Noll wasn't a HC before, I'd say he was successful

Paul Brown wasn't a HC (in the pros) before he took over the Browns. Do you have any question about his ability

Bill Walsh wasn't a HC before but is there any question about him?

Oddly enough, look at Belichick, first time around, he was decent, second time around, I'd say he's proven he's one of the great ones. I still don't like him.

Eric Mangini was a first time HC with the Jets, did a decent job when his QB didn't let him down. Came here, flopped big time,.

Again, whats it all add up to? Nothing really.

And the same holds true with GM's as well. Poali did a great job in NE, but Flopped in KC.

I'm gonna stop there because I think the point is made. it's a crapshoot and there is just no way around it.

But I'd agree with one point, if you add the following ingrediants:

Rookie HC
Rookie OC
Rookie DC (he was last year)
Rookie GM
Rookie Owner (might as well been last year)

You are asking for trouble.

But what Haslam did when he first took over was go out and get experienced guys, and after two years, dumped them...

It just doesn't matter. Of course, it's JMO

You are only allowed to criticize certain front offices. Didn't you know that?

Last year, the very same guys who are ripping you were calling our FO The Three Stooges. This year, how dare you criticize our beloved team or you will be told to go root for another team and that you are wallowing in misery.




Two years from now---or maybe less---the very same guys who loved the Flip hire will be saying they hated the hire. It's how it goes around here.

Did any team do worse than Farmer and the Browns in the first round of the draft?

All I can say is that Farmer better spend every last dime of the salary cap money to bring some talent in here or their jobs are doomed after the season. If we have 20+ Mil in cap space left we're looking at 4-12 at the very best. Stop being freakin cheap and bring in some damn talent!

I think we should fire his incompetent arse.

Pathetic.

What do you think we should do?

I don't want him fired, Rish.

What I do want is for people to stop making fun of people who are questioning our direction. I want people to stop acting like this guy is a proven genius and that Shanny was terrible. I want people to think rationally instead of taking turns in the regime wars.

Is that too much to ask?

no offense bro, but you and Brown to the Bone are the absolute WORST at doing the same thing you want other posters to stop doing.

you use to make fun of anybody who questioned the direction of mangini and lombardi/banner. and i mean HARD.

Yes, but not for the reason you are suggesting. Instead, it is exactly for what I said earlier.

I am pretty sure you--and others--will not get that, but it's okay. I really don't care enough to explain it further. Someone will just completely misunderstand [like you just did] or turn it around to mean something else. It's not worth the time.

I don't think anyone thinks that Farmer is a genius. I have never seen that stated from anyone.

I think most will admit his first round is off to a terrible start.

The guy is maddeningly arrogant. I rarely see eye to eye with PDR, but his comment that he loses confidence in Farmer every time he opens his mouth matched what I was thinking at the time as well.

Whether he is good or bad remains to be seen.

But we need to get behind him and support him and give him the time to implement his vision. It's only been one year. It's almost as if some people believe that if you don't have great results right out of the gate, then you are incompetent. I think that type of thinking breeds the instability and dysfunction we have witnessed for nearly 15 years.

And I don't see what complaining about it in every single post accomplishes. You are mad. I get it. But what does complaining about it non stop accomplish other than maybe make you feel better to get it off your chest? But then when people don't agree, it's like watch out.

Being miserable about the situation is a choice. You and mac and Spirit (who would be miserable if he won a $50m lottery) are choosing to be miserable and want everyone to come along for the ride with you. All I am asking is to calm down a bit. It's not changing. We are going into next year with Haslam, Farmer, Pettine, DeFlip, and no Shanny. You may be proven right and that group runs this franchise into the ground. I hope that doesn't happen. But all we can do is fasten our seat belts for the ride.

I am not making fun of you, btw. I don't see anyone overtly making fun of anyone else. I am being a bit condescending, but I am just trying to poke at all the negativity. I just don't think it's productive or even warranted.

Good post, but we really don't need to do anything. It's a freaking sport. They play games. It's not like quitting smoking. It's not like needing not to drive when drunk.

Again, I don't want him fired. However, he hasn't shown me much upside. His first round sucked. His comments on quarterbacks make me think he is hard-headed and stupid. His comments on why he didn't draft a WR again made me think he is hard headed and not flexible. His first round was terrible. The fact that Shanny wanted out is a huge concern to me.

I don't want--or need--anyone to come along w/me, Rish. I have never been that type of poster. Similar situations have played out ad nauseum over the years. I never needed or wanted any support. However, after how things have went down so many times over the years, I think I at least have earned enough respect for posters not to dismiss my opinions as "he likes to wallow in misery." That is complete BS!

Furthermore, I have no problem if you disagree w/my take on whether or not this team is headed in the right direction. Debate me. Don't make fun of me. When you say something like "loves to wallow in misery," you are actually saying my opinion has no credibility. That's not debate. It's an attempt to humiliate and belittle an opposing point of view.

I actually think you and I can have good debates. Let's just keep it real, Rish. Please?

I don't know if this is headed in the right direction. I don't think any of us do. I wish I had an opinion stronger than that, but I don't. I don't know if Pettine is actually any good. I don't know if Farmer is any good. I don't know if Haslam is any good. I don't think any of us know.

What I do know is that we have a history of instability and turnover at those important positions. What I do know is that teams that are in contention every year have stability at those important positions. Cincy now makes the playoffs on an annual basis. They have had tremendous consistency from the FO to the coach to the scouts to the systems they run over the years. They do this despite having below average QB play. Since franchise QBs don't grow on trees, I think stability will help us get to the point that we can insert a QB at some point and finally have the team we all want.

What I do know is that changing coaches and FO personnel every couple of years has not worked for us. So when I weigh what I know with what I'm not sure about, my only conclusion is we need to stick with the guys we hired, support them, and give them the time to implement their vision. The only other option is to fire them and start all over again. Do you have the stomach for that? I don't.

I see this is now your signature line... actually when I used it I was referring to a poster who used a La Canfora tweet about all the good OC candidates drying up because
Olson
Musgrave
Trestman

had been signed and we were still looking and would for sure get the bottom of the barrel.

Sorry you took it so personal since it was not initially directed at you... we used to have some good discussions .. more is the pity.

Anyway.... peace

Good post. It's logical and rational. Let's leave it at that for now.

Peace.

It's alright, tex.

It probably bothered me more because you are one of the guys I like.

And to be clear, I am not wallowing in misery. I am pissed off that we seemingly have dysfunction in our FO once again.

I will always love this team, but man, it's so old. We make the same mistakes over and over and over. Screw them. They need to win back my passion. I am hoping they do, but as of right now...........I don't think they have a clue.

I hope I am wrong for once about a regime.

j/c

Talk about a cluster F has anyone read/heard what is going down in New Orleans? We think the Browns are dysfunctional!

Saints players shocked by team’s ownership squabble

Admittedly, it’s a confusing story.

But Saints players were shocked by the news that owner Tom Benson was changing his will, to take control of his assets out of the hands of his daughter and granddaughter and into the hands of his current wife.

“This is the first I’m hearing of it,” quarterback Drew Brees said, via Katherine Terrell of the New Orleans Times-Picayune. “I’ll have to go and read.”

For Drew, the short version is Benson decided that his daughter Renee Benson and grandchildren Rita Benson LeBlanc and Ryan LeBlanc will no longer take over the Saints or the NBA Pelicans when he dies. Instead, control goes to his wife, Gayle Benson.

That has triggered an immediate lawsuit by the daughter and the grandkids, saying the wife is manipulating the owner and he’s incapable of knowing what he’s doing, and a statement from Tom Benson saying he’s fine.

While they didn’t know the details of the news, Brees did say he was fond of Gayle Benson, who frequently accompanies her husband to practice.

“I absolutely love Gayle, I think she’s one of the sweetest people,” Brees said. “I know she’s one of our biggest fans. Her presence at practice with Tom … and the way she treats the wives and the players, she’s first class. She’s been great.”

Tight end Jimmy Graham echoed those sentiments.

“Gayle Benson is one of the sweetest ladies I’ve ever met in my entire life,” he said. “Every day she comes to practice and gives me a smile and a big hug. She emulates everything that Tom Benson has done with the franchise, and I’m excited for her.”

While the impact of this story goes far beyond the player level, the fact they were caught so off guard by the news indicates how amazing it actually is.

Yikes...

...with significant potential/skills that are yet to be tapped. If all plays out in our favor, this would have to be considered an outstanding success....

Just clicking,, kinda

LOL,,did you guys ever notice that if a poster doesn't like a particular GM, all his drafts MUST pan out immediately. But if the poster likes him, you hear, you can't judge a draft for 3 years

Anyway, I don't believe we seen the best yet from Gilbert. I'm concerned over Manziel. But we'll see very soon.

With a new OC whose "supposed" to have experience with rookies, maybe this will be his turning point. Dunno

Probably because of the forced turnover in staff we have had in our recent history. Few reputable coachs would want to come here and risk another change before they could implement their plan.

We need to show stability, before we can get those other candidates to sign on.

im hoping for flip to work out...

a great qb would fix alot of `shortcomings`, imo

And yet, we keep finding decent coaches..

I'm not sure if your agreeing or disagreeing with me.

If all goes well, other candidates need not apply...

Hey, you finally made a legitimate point. I certainly noticed that last year when Banner and Lombardi were here.

Now, you guys are once again back to making excuses for the GM's incompetence.

I seriuosly wonder why you follow this team. From the outside it clearly looks like you hate everything about them, and wallow in complaining about them. Are you only happy when you can complain?

Nice.............dismiss the content by attacking the poster. What a new and refreshing strategy.

Jaguars, Lions, and Jets all seem to be competitors with us for that title. With the Jaguars it looks like we have a large enough sample size to know how terrible Bortles is under maximum effort. Does Gilbert have more TDs than Ebron? He was a huge disappointment. Pryor is terrible. It's not a pretty picture for the Browns, that's for sure... but they're not feet and ankles below those teams.

The Browns are not in a position to have a wait and see on 1st RD picks or much less anyone in the 1st couple rds.
They need impact starters,game changers ASAP.
How many of the Browns 1st and 2nd RD draft picks have stepped in and made a real contribution in year one.........Thomas..Haden..????
wanna know this team has failed since 1999?
Zero impact from their high picks. and this is a team that is drafting in the Top 10 almost every year and can get the best player at a position or one they target.
This team fails cause their high picks are failures(among other reasons)
what do the Browns have to show for Weeden and Trich?
whats Mingo done?.
every regime the Browns have had drafted miserably. fact.
yeah every so often they land a Thomas,Haden, Mack........
but this franchise would still lose if they didn't draft them.
Farmer like Heckert, Mangini does not impress me.
while the Vikings landed Bridgewater,the Raiders found Carr,what promise do the Browns have a QB?
all the Browns teams have a common thread.Bad GMs..bad QBs.

This is an extremely silly thread...

I understand the frustration, I'm SICK of losing and being a punchline, but with that said Mike Pettine did a NICE job this past season considering all he had to work with. Our offense lacked any real weapons much of the season, our defense was sluggish and was absolutely destroyed by injuries and yet we were still 7-4 at one point. I would say compared to the last seven years we're been spoon fed that's a pretty good change of pace for this franchise.

Pettine made his share of mistakes, as a lot of rookie head coaches do, but he still had a young roster out there competing every week. We won 7-games and we lost 4-games by 4 points or less, that isn't bad. We found ways to win games in the 4th quarter instead of ways to lose them as we're accustomed to seeing.

I think it's funny how some people EXPECT to see BIG NAME coaches brought in here. This is CLEVELAND people, it's not a sexy job, the big named guys DON'T WANT to come here.

Haslam very clearly has a Jerry Jones type ego, but at least the guy seems interested in the team and is willing to make changes and spend money unlike Randy Lerner before him who had his head in the soccer world constantly.

I actually think this team is on it's way to winning.

Unlike previous seasons we actually have a lot of talent on this roster and even a handful of elite players (Haden, Thomas, Mack) and some VERY GOOD players (Whitner, Gipson, Kruger, Bitonio) and a ton of talented younger players with bright futures (K' Williams, Crowell, West, Gabriel, Armonty Bryant, Kirksey, Desir).

I'm not mad about the coaches we have here.

Put the right players in place and we'll win regardless.

I do not believe for a second we're being setup for failure...UNLESS we enter the 2015 season with Johnny Manziel as the guy. I have zero faith in him and am completely off his bandwagon. I like to think that Farmer and Haslam are exploring all options at quarterback.

The only thing that is going to make this team fail next season is their very unfriendly schedule coming.

Not ragging on you, but I get tired of this argument......the basing of "next year's strength of schedule" based on this years results. Teams change, a lot. Those with great qb's generally do okay the following year - but not necessarily.

Further, ANY team is one injury away from very possibly sucking next year.

Take this article, for example: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/seahawks-biggest-advantage-over-rest-151202013.html

The Seahawks, this year, had a total of $2.6 million tied up in quarterbacks. NOT in Wilson - in the 3 qb's they have on the team. Wilson is due a new contract next year. He may get as much as $20 million. Wow - that puts a damper on what they can do contract wise with other players. What's that mean? We'll find out.


Arizona, this year, started off hot. We saw what an injury, then another injury did to them. To an extent, we saw that with the Browns, and Mack going out.

Next years SOS means very little at this point.

just to piggy back... what if Manning decides to retire... what does that do to Denver?

Before this season we thought our opponents would be much better than they were, you just never know.

Didn't want to start a new thread for this so I thought I would add it here.

While doing some research on Belichick, I clicked on Parcells wiki and found something I was not aware of...read on,

"Duane Charles "Bill" Parcells (born August 22, 1941)[1] is a former American footballhead coach, both in college with the Air Force Falcons, and the National Football Leaguewith the New York Giants, New England Patriots, New York Jets, and Dallas Cowboys and is currently a "Courtesy Consultant" for the Cleveland Browns."

I was not aware that Parcells had a "consultant" type relationship with the Browns. News to me...

I think he has a relationship with Haslam and he brought him in for discussions on coaching hires and then it became more official before the draft last year.

from bleacher report.............


Bill Parcells Aiding Cleveland Browns as Courtesy Consultant

By R. Cory Smith , Featured Columnist
Mar 6, 2014





Bill Parcells hasn't been a head coach or an NFL executive since the 2010 season with the Miami Dolphins, but the two-time Super Bowl champion can't stay away from the game he loves.

The same man that spent 19 years as an NFL head coach and an additional three seasons with the Miami Dolphins as an executive is now working with the Cleveland Browns as a courtesy consultant, according to Gil Brandt of NFL.com:

Parcells spent his career with four different teams—the New York Giants, New England Patriots, New York Jets and Dallas Cowboys—before hanging up his whistle on the sidelines back in 2006.

But with his involvement in the game still being coveted by so many teams like the Dolphins and now the Browns, it's no wonder that he hasn't completely stayed away from the NFL ranks.

The Hall of Fame coach spoke about his role with the Browns back in February, per Bobby Bonett of Sirius XM:

I did speak with the Browns, but not about any job. I spoke with the owner of the Browns, he asked me if he could come and talk about the organization, and what I thought [were] the reasons they were successful or weren’t successful. And so I try to help anybody who asks, and that’s what he was asking about. But there was no discussion about any jobs or anything.

With a new head coach in Mike Pettine, having a veteran presence around can steer the first-year coach in the right direction, especially when it comes to navigating both free agency and the 2014 NFL draft.

As for what his involvement with the team might actually mean for the offseason, Marc Sessler of NFL.com reports that Parcells spoke with a top-tier quarterback recently:

Parcells has made his mark around the league for several years and helped turn around franchises in just about every city in which he has landed.

Whether it was winning two Super Bowls with the Giants, leading the Patriots to an AFC Championship or taking the Cowboys to the playoffs twice late in his career, Parcells knows what he's doing when it comes to constructing a winning team.



And with the Browns owning the fourth overall pick in the NFL draft, his in-depth interview with Teddy Bridgewater could mean that Cleveland is focusing in on the Louisville quarterback with that first selection.

Parcells might not be a head coach anymore, but being involved with the Browns organization can only help both Pettine and the franchise as a whole. Cleveland already has some intriguing pieces in place. If Parcells can help the team nail the No. 4 pick with an impact player, it will be a huge boon for the franchise.


Follow R. Cory Smith on Twitter:

I wonder what sidetracked this train of thought...

I heard a pretty good interview with him a couple of months ago.

Parcells is a believer in finding big players that can move. He was pretty clear that players in the trenches and skill position players with size create mis matches that effect the outcome of the game.

How in the world does Duane Charles become Bill?