DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns hire Kevin O'Connell as QB coach

Banner is just as gutless as Lombardi. Trying to slip in the hiring of Lombardi during the hiring of the coach when everyone knew Lombardi was already hired. I have nothing for either of those worms and the main reason I dont like Farmer is he was hired by them. I hated Lombardi and they gave him a made up title and then changed it to GM. Cowards.

They didnt do one damn thing to help Chud win a game, then fired him for not winning enough. I would rather see the browns never win another game than have Banner and Lombari in charge of the Browns.

I did my happy dance when both those jackasses hit the bricks.

Pettine had so much more going on behind the scenes during the season than we could have possibly ever known about.
He did a great job under those circumstances. Like many have said, he is the best and only thing we have going in Berea these days.

I think the hiring of O'Connell was a good choice.

Regarding the whole Banner thing, time to move on. I did not think Banner supported Chud, and threw him under the bus. I am glad he is gone.

Move wise, I thought Banner did ok. Personality wise/and leadership were his shortcomings. Banner was too quick to tell you how smart he was, and he was not as smart as he thought.

I never liked the Lombardi hire. I remember seeing him on the NFLN and not agreeing with a number of his positions.

With Farmer it is too soon to tell. I like some things, dislike others. Whether that is growing pains, owner influence or a trend that will be repeated, we can only speculate.

I agree, to some extent.

Last year, Banner used the draft as if he were going to be here for the next 10 years. He treated it as a long term proposition. There is nothing wrong with that, as this is how it should be. Banner trading away picks for better future picks was a solid, long term plan. Trading away Richardson was a masterstroke, given the way he has regressed. Unfortunately, we wound up without any running attack after that trade, until we found Baker. He spent time with 3 different teams this past season. He was our best RB last year. Yeah, we were desperate there.

Let's look at his 2013 draft.

1) Mingo: So far Mingo is a so-so player for the position he was brought in to fill. He was supposed to be the pass rusher supreme, and he has absolutely not been that. He has been a decent player, and he played through a ton of issues with his shoulder, but he still, 2 years through his career, has not become what he was supposed to become.

3) Leon McFadden: Well, I liked this pick, and he has been an absolute disappointment. This has to go down as a bad pick.

4) traded

5) traded

6) Armonty Bryant: He has promise of possibly being better than his draft slot, but he did miss the majority of the year with injury. However, 17 games with 2 starts, and he has 23 tackles and 3 sacks. Maybe he'll becoem something more, and then again, maybe not.

7) Gilkey: Umm .... moving on ...

That was the 1st year draft of Banner/Lombardi, and this was a draft that was necessary to jump start the franchise. The team had fired the former regime, and changed directions. Now, let's take a look at who Banner/Lombardi/Chud brought in last year:

Gary Barnidge: This was a Chud find. He liked the guy from his time in Carolina.

Desmond Bryant: Solid signing. 8.5sacks in 2 season. Seems like a decent fit in either last year's defense, or this year's.

Brian Hoyer: Well, he has looked good, and he has looked absolutely clueless. After roughly one complete season, we still don't know for sure what we have with him. Is he a guy worth investing in, or is he a guy we bring in and hope he can be the best of what he was, without all of the worst? We still have no idea.

Paul Kruger: Great signing. I thought that he played really well in the defense in 2013, especially against the run. He set the edge beautifully, and probably better than any defender I have seen in a Browns uniform since the team returned in 1999. Last year he showed great pass rushing chops. The best player that Banner/Lombardi brought in.

Spencer Lanning: Decent enough punter.

Jordan Poyer: A decent backup/special teams guy.

These are the guys brought in by Banner and Lombardi. How many are long term answers? Mingo and Armonty show some promise, but are by no means guaranteed stars. Hoyer was a chance worth taking. Des Bryant was a good signing, as was Barnidge, and Kruger was an excellent signing. Lanning was solid enough.

However, this team needed starters. This team needed leadership. Did Banner/Lombardi add those kind of players? I don't know that they did. The team had millions and millions available to add players with, and really only added a couple of guys.

As it turned out, we had very little at the RB and WR positions. The team could have added to these positions, but chose not to.

Anyway, I would give their player acquisition a C-. It was OK, but they failed to bring in many true impact players, despite having tons of salary cap space available.

Now, the next thing to look at is their relationship with the coaches. I cannot believe that Chud looked at the RB/WR positions and said "Gee, this is great!". I think that Chud tried to develop guys, taking the same long term view that the front office appeared to take. He was not perfect, but I thought that he did a solid job as a 1st year head coach, with a team with limited talent. There were reports of friction between him and the front office, and that almost never works out well for the coach. After one year, he and his coaching staff were all dumped.

The reports surrounding the coaching search were bizarre. We were refused and turned down by many possible candidates. I truly believe that Banner thought that he would be able to bring in a big name .... but no one wanted to work for him. There were reports of Banner and (his hand picked GM) Lombardi having huge disagreements over the whole process. The whole thing looked like a clown show, whether anyone wants to admit it or not. Chud is a respected coach, who was dealt a horrible hand, and then was dumped after only one year. People did not exactly cheer the way Banner, Haslam, and Lombardi handled this whole process, and they were rightly panned for the way the whole process went.

So, did this brain trust handle their year in Berea as an effective team, working to build a team within the team, and bringing in top quality players, and having a better team at the end of the year then when they started the year? I don't think so. I do think that Haslam had Banner shoved on him by the powers within the NFL, and it was a bad fit. I have no way of knowing this with absolute certainty, but it almost seemed like Banner thought of himself as the owner. When the team showed no improvement on the field, and showed dysfunction towards the end of the year, I think that Haslam said "Enough of this. This is not going to work long term." It was obvious that Banner, and his hand picked (and unpopular) choice at GM had fallen apart as a team. They were in competition for Haslam's professional affections. It seems lie that was enough, especially with the way the media portrayed (rightly, IMHO) the way the year ended in Berea as a clown show. I think that Banner and/or Lombardi oversold their ability to bring in a "name" head coach, and while it appears that they found a good head coach in Pettine, it does not appear to be what they sold Haslam on when they said "Hey, let's fire Chud". I thought that Chud was a scapegoat, and was thrown under the bus, even before the end of the season.

I do like the team of Farmer and Pettine so far. Pettine has found some solid players, int he draft, in free agency, and among the UDFA. He took over a team with nothing at WR, RB, ILB, and that needed depth in the secondary. He addressed those needs. QB is still a problem, and there is no disputing that. He took 2 1st round guys, while adding another 1st round pick next year, and he took a guy who was a top CB in most people's opinions ... and he picked a QB who was a real boom/bust risk. Many people loved this draft, though some still want(ed) Watkins. Watkins did have a really nice year in Buffalo, but we did add Gabriel, who also had a really nice year. It is hard to add more than one rookie WR in any single season, as a young WR typically needs a lot of coaching.

Choices were made, and I think that solid picks were made. The trade for a 1st and 4th this year was an excellent trade. I think that Farmer, even with the problems we had with both Gilbert and Manziel, had a better off-season than Banner/Lpmbardi did last year. I think that Farmer is a quality GM. I think that he attacked every possible way of finding players, and found quite a few gems.

Anyway, I think that things may have wound up for the best for us, for once. I think that we have a good GM and head coach in place, and hopefully they get to grow into their roles and become great in their positions. I think that Haslam realizes that he can't go make massive changes agains this team without looking like an absolute joke, so I think that Farmer and Pettine get several years to prove themselves.

I thinkt hat we are on the right track.

Well said, YTown. And yes, I also believe that we are on the right track...

fixed.

Honestly this has to be seen as an unabated disaster. This was not a strong draft, sure, but there were still good players to be had. Passing up 16 and 48 for Mingo. Taking Leon McFadden over Honey Badger. Fourth round pick was used to trade up for Manziel. Fifth round pick eventually used on Pierre Desir, who may develop into a better player. The selection of Slaughter was unconscionable, I'm sorry. Bryant was obviously a home run. Gilkey... ok fine in the 7th.

Taking Leon McFadden over Honey Badger.

at the time the honey possum (as we say here in knox ) had more red flags than russia. i think he was a sure fire 1st rd pick until he screwed up. that's why he dropped.

It was indeed a good draft. If Gilbert and/or Manziel turn out as we hope, then it would have to be considered a very, very good draft...

i liked it. i just wish we could start hitting on our 1st rounders. even the ones that should be no brainers ( courtney brown) ends up doing nothing. this should be the safest pick in the draft. but when you change schemes every other year your putting last years pick out of position.
sometimes i think the GM (whoever it is at the time) trys to pick players guessing that's what the next HC may need.

I read all these posts and I already know what each poster is going to say before he says it.

The lack of objectivity is almost nil on this board.

People just can't seem to say anything nice about a regime they don't like and anything bad about a regime they do like.

Sorry, but I can't take any of that seriously. Not that you care..........but it is what it is.

Going to a place and reading things you can't take seriously seems counter intuitive.

You are so clever. Well, maybe for an elementary student.

I actually praised some of the people in this regime while criticizing others. Most of you guys are all one way or the other.

You can hurl you mindless, ignorant comments, but they are not based in fact.

You will get others to agree w/you, but it means nothing. Just like it always has. History tells the story about who has been proven to be right and who has proven to be wrong time after time after time.

The problem is that it comes across as you caring more about being right than the team winning.

Because there is no "right" or "wrong"

We are just people on a message board, giving our opinions, hoping one day that we can all come on here and post about how awesome our Super Bowl celebration was...

The fact that you care so much about what other people think about people that worked here years ago is sad.

None of this means anything.

Well, that is your version of the problem.

I think a bigger problem is that no many how many times I have proven to be right over the years, a bunch of guys like continue to ridicule my very next point.

That is a problem. Not for me. But, for you. It speaks volumes about you.

I don't need for chumps like you tell me I am right. What I would like is for bullies like you perhaps stop belittling my opinions time after time after time.....as if they absurd comments.

You can talk all the crap you want. It doesn't mean anything because the results over the years speak louder than your BS ever does.

We are all right every time. It's like message board Shawshank Redemption.

K.

J/C..

At this point I'm okay and liking the hire... I'm not going to judge KO for his physical play.. But for his ability to teach...

Having a young guy who is able to teach (coach) the players to perform is what the team needs..

If KO can come in here and show that he can help these players play at their highest level and perform on the field game day... Then he's doing his job..

So he couldn't beat out Hoyer..I don't care... Get our QB's playing at Play-off speed... That's my hopes he can achieve.

Based on comments from Pettine that have been consistent since Shanny left - we are WAY better off without Shanny. Sure I am reading between the lines - but it doesn't seem that the text is hard to decipher, two most glaring examples:

1. Pettine came out and said wanting to be here - wanting to be part of this team was critical in hiring Flip.
2. When asked what he was most optimistic about at the combine - the new OC.

I thought Shanny did a lot of good to great things early in the season. After we started to stagnate and I questioned a lot of his play calling and schemes.

After the post season to date my opinion is - he never wanted to be here and was at least some if not a majority of the dysfunction within a young team. He ratted on Farmer to get out of Town and be able to move laterally. I'm glad he and his lackey Loggains are gone.

It's amazing at some of the things that certain posters jump all over and then completely ignore comments like the above.

What........not one of you is going to ask for proof of those two lies.......ooppps.........statements?

Why not?

Let me guess........because he agrees w/your take on the situation, right? It's not about what is right and wrong. It's about perceptions.

Very shallow.

I read where Quinn and Shanny talked about being together, Where is the NFL and why are they not looking into this as tampering? Was this before we hired him or after?

Because to respond to every speculative post/statement would be a 24/7/365 job for which I have neither the time nor energy. I will pick my spots selectively. I do however, wait for facts before casting my thoughts in stone...

I just thought it was funny, that he would say something like that. Considering Shanny was with us? Not good either way. Sounds like a plot to escape to be together. I don't care for Shanny and I'm glad he's gone, I don't care how good he thought he was.

No role reversal at all. Actually you stick up for them when they play or work for the Browns. Once they're gone, you take every possible measure to stick up for the Browns as to why they left. Not saying you're right or wrong, just stating the obvious.

Oh there is a lot of good. Our D has improved. I believe Pettine has shown signs he may end up being a great HC. While nobody (even us) are perfect, I see a lot of good in him.

And while I agree it was certainly Shanny who wanted out, I'm not sure any of us know the total story yet. We may never. I just never want you to take any of my posts directed towards you to be of a personal nature. The written word can sometimes be confusing to interpret ones intent. And I would never intentionally comment to you on a personal basis.

It's OK to challenge or "attack" a post, but never the poster. That is crossing the line, IMO...

pfft. people say you got thin skin lol. if you did you wouldnt talk to me!!!!!

nobody would....

jk ..... jk

LMAO............just like you did last year w/Banner and Lombardi.

Man, y'all act like I can't remember how vicious and hateful you were last year.

If we are going to have a young QB, then we need a great teacher as our QB coach.

I do not think that our QB coach last year did a very good job of teaching the QBs. Hoyer's mechanics went to pieces as the year progressed, (and he regressed) and Manziel looked like he had never stepped foot on a football field. The QB coach has to be a great teacher, and maybe the coach last year was better suited to a team with a veteran QB who already had great mechanics.

And deservedly so. You know, you are the one who fabricated the title "Regime Wars" and continue to make reference to "The Big Show", "Heckert", Banner/Lombardi.
Nobody else is playing this card but you...why?

Why? Because you guys are full of crap.

Why else?

?

And you wonder..........dude, you do to others exactly what you claim they do to you.

I don't wonder at all. I just don't care.