DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cleveland Browns sticking with plan By Pluto

I wouldn't be opposed to swapping one of our firsts for a second day pick and a first next year. We may be looking at a QB once again and having the extra ammo would be huge. I'd love for us to get Bear Wilson in the first next year, too.

I agree with this plan. The receiver depth in this draft seems to be in the 2nd-4th round while last year it was in the first round.

If we draft Erving it will likely be for him to be the starting C in 2016. Mack can opt out of his contract after 2015 and we've done little to address the reasons he wanted to leave in the first place.

we've done little to address the reasons he wanted to leave in the first place.


i can't remember the reasons he gave but i am sure that a winning season would would soften his stance a little. i hope to god we don't draft just in case someone opts out. we have waited entirely too long for an OL like this.

We must protect ourselves should this turn out to be the case. If he stays Erving should be able to play any spot on the Oline...

Losing, no QB, and constant coaching turnover were reported to he the reasons.

Mack will stay if we win

He signed with the freaking Jags. If he wanted more of the same he was going to the right place.

I've been saying since the end of our season that I can't remember a time when I had a clearer understanding of what we needed to do to right our ship. Reading this article it seems I have the same sense as the team. OL depth and DL early and aggressively and many other things wrong with this team will start to magically fall into place. The first half of last year was like a window opening up. It showed us the path where we need to go. We just couldn't sustain it after the tipping-point injury to Mack and others.

I love the idea of Shelton in the 1st. I've seen Scherff as possibility at 29 as well as other OTs. We've said it many times before but I feel like for the 1st time in a long long time we have the ability in 1 off season to make this team very strong everywhere except QB. If that's the case, we're just looking for the most adept game manager we can find. We don't have to come up with a miracle. To me Hoyer is not a bad bet considering he's a known quantity and such positive guy in the locker room and on the field. It's been shown, if the defense is adequate and the running game is humming, he can make a little hay.

The big "other shoe" in all this is the offense that gets installed. For as clear as it became last year we have no idea if the new guys have a clue or not. I really hope DeFilipo keeps and builds on Shanny's OL zone blocking scheme and WR route schemes.

I like our team, and our depth and everything else. The problem is saying we have a great roster except at QB is a bit like asking Mrs. Lincoln about the play. We can do ok with a dominant defense, and we aren't far from that, and a powerful run game. But man, if we have no QB and Hawkins/ Austin are our top WRs, we are gonna have a tough time winning more than 8 or 9 games.

Just because we need something really really badly does not mean the universe will just provide it for us. Wish and want and pray and yearn all you want.. means nothing.

List out all the QB options available to us right now.
All the potential FA's.
All the possible team trades.
All the possible draft picks.

Where is "the guy". I don't see him. I don't see him in the draft. I don't see him on the FA market. There's one or two guys that are maybe half a head above Hoyer. Maybe. Take your pick.

So in the mean time, you do what you can. You build in the smartest ways possible sans the ability to do anything about the QB position.

He used the Jags.

Plan or not, it's the truth. They better do SOMETHING at quarterback. At the moment, we don't have one. So unless they want a repeat of the last half of the season, they better figure out a way to find and aquire a quarterback. He doesn't have to be great, but he does have to be better than what we have right now. Which is nothing at all.
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Hey Terry, ever think the reason our defense did fairly well in certain stats is because we played the NFC South? As you said, our run defense was PATHETIC. And our pass rush was non-existent. 31 sacks is pitiful. No pass rush plus can't stop the run equals losing against ANY real team. We aren't playing the NFC South next year..... This team has so many holes it will take a miracle to win more games next year. No quarterback, no receiving threat, a BIG question at RB, and a defense that can't stop the run and can't pressure the passer.... Oh yeah, I forgot.... a GM that drafts poorly at best and likes to take head cases. SB here we come....

We have TWO first round picks. There are a plethora of quarterbacks available to trade for. No studs of course, but servicable guys that would be a huge improvement over NO quarterback which is waht we have right now. You think we shouldn't even try? Fine, We'll run the wildcat every down and start West at QB. That should really fill those seats....

Draft a QB, trade for another and if one is available in FA bring him in too. Seattle kept plugging away at QB until they found the right one. Didn't happen over night that's for sure. Traded for Whitehurts, brought in that kid from the Vikings(can't recall his name right now)... they kept bringing in QB's until the got one. We need to do the same.

Trade For Nick Foles. Trade for Cousins. Hell, trade for them both. Then draft a guy and hope ONE of them can play in whatever offense we cobble together this year.

Manziel tried to unseat someone last season?

You can't believe anything Johnny says, of course. So the only way to know if you're not wasting your time is if he shows up at OTAs and it is really obvious he's studied the playbook, worked out and shown major discipline. If he has, then we might find out if he is a fit in the NFL. There'll be comments that come out that will be more than the wishful, positive reinforcement Dansby and Haden have been offering up.
If we don't see that, and the endless barrage of selfless, trips to Vegas and 'money sign' crap continues, then they just can't commit to him. His teammates will hate him, he'll be terrible and we'll be lucky to win three games. And by then, it might be too late to get Plan B ready.

He did unseat one guy, who was minding his own business … on an inflatable swan.

Actually he signed their sheet and if the Browns had let him go then he would have been on the Jaguars.

That's a big "if" though and that's the issue. IMO, Mack is already swaying to leaving with the introduction of yet another coordinator. I very much highly doubt Mack will want to stick around and he'll pull a Marrone and opt out at the first chance he is able to after next season. Do I hope I am wrong? Absolutely!

Those are all just guys. Better than Hoyer? Maybe, maybe not. Of course we're going to do something. There will be at least 3 guys vying come spring training. I think the questions becomes are we going to try to SOLVE it this year outright or position ourselves to solve it next year? You can spend all your ammo this year and the odds of solving are... very low. There are no obvious brass rings on the merry go round this year. Or you can make the rest of the team significantly better this year and retain ammo for next year to try to solve the issue. I'd opt for the route of likeliest success. So take a flyer on a mid-round QB, go for it. But I wouldn't bet hard cash on it turning up anything but more than "just a guy".

I like the idea of trying to perform some kind of move in this year's draft that secures another 1st next year where we can try to make a move up. I thought I was in favor of staying put and BPA but I like carrying ammo forward for when we need to use it on a big target. But you don't squander your ammo on unworthy targets. This year they're all unworthy targets IMO.

I could be way off on this, but I get the feeling that Haslam and Farmer are going to give JM every chance to win the job.

That makes sense on a certain level because he was a first round draft choice and he is a marketing bonanza.

On the other hand, it is a bit scary because I don't know if I have ever witnessed such poor qb play in my entire life as I witnessed in JM's two starts last year. Combine that w/his alcohol problem, and the Browns could be in a very dire circumstance if JM flops as badly as he did this year.

the Browns could be in a very dire circumstance if JM flops as badly as he did this year.

that will only happen if he plays. and if he is the best we have going into next season it's entirely the fault of the browns org for not bringing in a few guys to at least give us a fighting chance.
as wilbert montgomery said about the way the ravens viewed the browns, they will find a way to lose. the same can be said about johnny gump. he will find a way to FIU.

It's o.k. to give JM every chance to win the starting job but like everything else you have to have a backup plan. Sign 1 of the fa out there and maybe draft a guy in the later rds. You can't put all your eggs in 1 basket with JM. That's unwise.

Two things I don't like about the plan, the borrowing and building part. Don't like the idea of signing veterans at the end of their careers and picking undrafted free agents and claiming young players off waiver wires.

I would like a more agressive plan, hopefully their plan will work.

Manziel will never be a good QB much less a great one.
Cause football will always be secondary in his life. The celebrity part will come first.
sorry he doesn't have it.
how many GMs right now would trade their starting QB for him?
none.
Johnny says everything people want to hear.
Heck he's barely big enough to ride the rides at Cedar Point.

i'm not so sure that he even has to win it...he just has to show enough improvement that he can do enough...it appears that the organization wants him to step up and be the man...IF he is the future then he needs to start so he can learn on the field and work on his LOS reads...

At the end of the day, he is going to still be a rookie when he finally takes the field. When he gets 6+ games under his belt then the challenge will be, like all rookies, how long do you keep him there if he struggles?

It seems to be this much is clear - everyone in the organization will be giving him everything he needs to succeed..the entire planet seems to want him to succeed...been a while since we've had that in Cleveland!

Very bold statement right there... but with that said, hope you're right.

I disagree with this totally. He must win it. He can't just be marginally better than he's been or show improvement. He must put to bed all of the criticism about him converting his skills to the pro game. He has to know the playbook, he must develop the skills to win from inside the pocket. He has to be able to effectively decipher coverage and disguising of blitzes. His decision making on when and how to use his mobility must improve. He has to eliminate the habits that don't translate to the pro game. He has to translate the theoretical to actual execution on the field, in-game. He needs to treat NFL Quarterbacking like a job and approach it with the seriousness and focus that any high-stakes competitive job requires to perform at a high level. Starting with the work he does this off season.

He doesn't have to check all of these off before getting his next start but he has to make significant strides in all of these areas and others that I haven't mentioned. And he must do so to the standards set by the organization.

Great read, Mourgrym. I respect Pluto's opinions and his take on the Browns is usually good, and deserves consideration. There is enough here to be scary as far as coaches go. I hope it is not JM at any price as far as getting him playable. I want us to compete. The 2015 schedule is rougher. It will take a better effort to succeed.

Let's go offense big this year. Hoyer is being pursued. My fingers are crossed.

Fool me once, shame on thee; fool me twice, shame on me. Sounds like we will indulge in the same games, same snake oil, same tell 'em what they wanna hear. Too much drama and game playing right now. I am ready for some football. Don't be too cute or over think it. We listened to and allowed too much noise and distraction.
Focus.

If they improve by leaps and bounds on both offense and defense they could be a pretty good team next year!!! Oh and special teams!

Better depth on the OL, get mack back and another year in the zone scheme and this OL should be pretty damn good.

2 rookie backs just kinda wore down and that should improve also in year 2. I expect we will see some 2 back sets and getting these guys out into patterns far more often. West can be a real threat in the passing game, those catches he was making in camp last year were epic. Another year in the same blocking scheme and an off season of rest and recovery is just what these 2 studs need.

Wide receivers need to really work on extending plays. I think this was the biggest fault i had with this group as a whole. Not just when Johnny was running around but also when Hoyer extended plays, these guys kinda started jogging around. I hope we can add a couple more guys but I just dont think Farmer will do it.

Johnny needs reps and reps and reps. No excuses, flip supposedly is great with QBs and we brought in his QB coach. Top 10 defense, top 3 OL, top 10 run game, no excuses. This regime is doing all it can for the kid. I am excited to see what he can do.

Defensively, getting healthy is the cure all. We can talk about needs but just getting Gipson, Armonty Bryant, Big Phil, Rubin, Hughes, Desmond Bryant, Mingo, Sheard healthy makes this a different team. Armonty back in action, is something I want to see, I just hope the knee injury doesnt take away that amazing first step.

"This is not an opinion story, it's informational."
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" I was not able to get a sense of what they plan to do about the quarterback -- other than they have do something."
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What kind of Plan is that?

Would you not start with the fact that inconsistent play at quarterback cost them the season?

And the season before that and so on and so forth.
For the last 25 plus years.

So it's a plan that they have to do something?

They say that the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

You have a plan and then you work the plan.

The plan starts with getting a quarterback.

You had me until your last sentence. Why keep getting a QB every year when none are any better than what you already have on staff?