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I've hinted at this before, but would any of you be opposed to keeping Shaffer at LT for one more year and letting Thomas play at G? Kind of the same kind of thing that Baltimore did with Ogden?
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I still dont understand......How anyone could even think he would make a LT? He has no moves....He is not a stop gap...and he is to slow! 
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Nope, I suggested that very thing was a possibility the day we drafted Thomas.
Now I'll repeat what I said: I'm not advocating it or pulling for it, but I maintain it's a possibility if Thomas comes along slowly. If the team decides that it's in his best interest to learn for a year at guard or right tackle, so be it. I'd rather have that than a guy who becomes an emotional trainwreck because he can't handle the position as a rookie.
Just keep in mind I'd be doing it for Thomas, not Necktie.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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So when your salary more than TRIPLES from $815,000, to the $2.9 million range,you don't figure more than triple your salary a drastic increase?  That's my point Toad. IF he doesn't find a "starting spot" on our OL this year,or if he's our most marginal starter going into next year,he will most likely be REPLACED by the Browns going into 08.Or is your theory that the Browns will pay "maginal talent" that kind of a salary? If that's what you think,maybe you need to ask Andruzzi.  So if you were him,would you rather try to get a starting gig with the Giants NOW at LT,or br released next year as a G who was the weak link in the chain? Do you have a marketing bone in your body? 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Sure, if you're taking it from a standpoint of depth, he's expendable. If that was your point all along, it's correct.
However, you did say it accelerates dramatically over the next few years.......it goes backwards in '09 then back to '08 money. That's not quite "dramatic" *L*
Now as far as being released as a guard, no, it doesn't matter. If a team is still interested after his poor performance, he'll still have interest regardless of where he played. Just ask Shelton. He was a failed starter who got a third chance with the Fish (where he failed and was demoted *L*). Instead of releasing him, the Fish have said he'll start the year at right tackle, but I digress.
By the way...........He's acting like a baby 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Well,I don't think he'll be a LT here. And looking at how our OL is shaping up,I don't think we'll pay him 2.anything next year. This year? Unless the Browns get a "sweetheart of a deal" at a position of need,I say keep him at his cost. Next year? He gets the axe,depending on what transpires on the injury front. So I see why the Browns want some value in a trade if we trade him now. And I can see why Shaffer wants to work out a trade. I think that's fairly simple math IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Trade him for Orlando Pace!  Sorry... someone had to say it
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Quote:
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why you wouldn;t want to be part of building a Super Bwol contender from the ground up, i'll never know - even if your role is that of a back up.
I can answer that - pride. Shaffer is used to playing LT - the most glamorous/highly regarded oline position.
Moving from LT to RG would be like... having steak for dinner every night and then someone taking the steak and saying you could have a bologna sandwhich from now on.
hey, i'm Kevin Schaffer. i play the most glamorous/highly regarded position on the line. i'm not that good at it, but still- i'd rather seek a trade and under-achieve somewhere else on the left than be a team player and excel here on the right. 
sorry.
![[Linked Image from s84.photobucket.com]](http://s84.photobucket.com/albums/k4/okphi1124/th_untitled.jpg) WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!
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... and my stripper girlfriend in college wouldn't have cheated on me.
I'm sorry.... I would not do it again. She said she was single.......honest....
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good one. 
WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!
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By the way...........He's acting like a baby
I agree, what in the world is wrong with playing RT it's not like hes making less money unless their is some clause in his contract.
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I agree with that. I would be very happy to sit around and make a million a year.....but I might not have been when I was 27 or however old Shaffer is at this time.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I agree with that. I would be very happy to sit around and make a million a year.....but I might not have been when I was 27 or however old Shaffer is at this time.
He isn't even sitting around he is playing Right Tackle and protecting the side where the QB can see like he did in Atlanta, I have lost a great amount of respect for Shaffer.
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"... I would be very happy to sit around and make a million a year.....but I might not have been when I was 27 or however old Shaffer is at this time. "
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
So how much did you make when you were 27 or however old.....????????
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All I have to say to Shaffer is
suck it up buttercup.
Thomas will be the LT and you need to find a home on the line. You are being paid a bunch of money, so you need to earn it. If you want traded, then Phil will try to accomdate you, but you had no issue about signing the contract, so now you made your bed, you can lie in it.
It is interesting to recall that LCB said he would play any position (guard or center) and joked about punting if it would help the Browns win. The team needs more LCB's and fewer KS's.
If he is gods gift to LT's then he should have no problem at making a pro-bowl at an inferior line position.
I have had one of those days, the normal ChargerDawg will return shortly.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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you had no issue about signing the contract, so now you made your bed, you can lie in it.
And teams have no problem not honoring those contracts either. (see Andruzzi)
If as you say,he needs to "suck it up and honor his contract",on that same premise,shouldn't you expect NFL teams to do the same?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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No.
NFL contracts are not guarenteed. In essence they are able to be terminated at any time. Players don't want 1 year contract (e.g. franchise players such as Samual and Briggs) because of the injury factor. They want the Bonus Money and long term commitment, not a short term fling. That is the challenge you get the bonus money but you have to earn your keep. If you get injured or underperform, the team takes the cap hit and you are a free agent.
Smart players have buyout options, but normally that is negotiated in lieu of bonus money.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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No.
NFL contracts are not guarenteed. In essence they are able to be terminated at any time. Players don't want 1 year contract (e.g. franchise players such as Samual and Briggs) because of the injury factor. They want the Bonus Money and long term commitment, not a short term fling.
Well,that "sounds great". One problem. The bonus money,yes. Long term commitment? There is no such thing. We can look at Shaffers contract. Sure he got the bonus money.
But long term commitment? Where in the world do you get that from? Most of us can LOOK at contracts and see what's up. We see HUGE contracts signed. Then we can see how they're structured and "know what they really mean".
Just like the Shaffer deal. He makes 815k this year. Next? 2.8 mil.! Do YOU think we'll pay Shaffer 2.8 mil. next year? I don't think so......................
He's "disposable" after this year. He knows it. Our FO knows it. And most of all,his agent knows it. As of right now,he DOES have an oppertunity to play LT in G Man Land as a LT. Will that oppertunity to play LT be there next year?
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That is the challenge you get the bonus money but you have to earn your keep. If you get injured or underperform, the team takes the cap hit and you are a free agent.
Or if you're not going to be happy and upset team chemistry? Shaffer can see that his time here is over after this year anyway. His salary more than triples after this year. A high price to pay for a "non factor" and better talent will be found at about the same price.
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Smart players have buyout options, but normally that is negotiated in lieu of bonus money.
Or they can read the writing on the wall and try to get out before the axe falls.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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According to my local newspaper Shaffer has been given permission to seek a trade. If you are not going to be part of the solution then you become part of the problem.
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Well,that "sounds great". One problem. The bonus money,yes. Long term commitment? There is no such thing. We can look at Shaffers contract. Sure he got the bonus money.
Wasn't that bonus money $9,000,000 that was paid up front. The purpose of that bonues money was to give him some degree of security. You make it sound like he is missing out on an opportunity without being more than adequately compensated.
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But long term commitment? Where in the world do you get that from? Most of us can LOOK at contracts and see what's up. We see HUGE contracts signed. Then we can see how they're structured and "know what they really mean".
Just like the Shaffer deal. He makes 815k this year. Next? 2.8 mil.! Do YOU think we'll pay Shaffer 2.8 mil. next year? I don't think so......................
So he gets traded after one year, then we essentially paid him $9 mil + for one season. Not too bad.
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He's "disposable" after this year. He knows it. Our FO knows it. And most of all,his agent knows it. As of right now,he DOES have an oppertunity to play LT in G Man Land as a LT. Will that oppertunity to play LT be there next year?
Again, he's already been paid for the possibility/probability that he will not play LT for the Browns throughout his contract, We would gladly pay him 2.8 mil in '08 IF he were anywhere near worth that...he should see that he has already been grossly overpaid...but his agent won't let him see that.
The Browns have been more than fair with Shaffer from a financial perspective regardless of which position he plays...or backs up.
These %$#@ signing bonuses are dangerous in two ways: (1) They can really screw you on the salary cap; (2) Greedy players and agents like to play the "what-about-my-future-earnings-at-position-x-vs.-position-y" card, while completey forgetting about the frickin' $9,000,000 signing binus paid just one year ago.
I understand that NFL contracts are generally not guaranteed and that that can hurt a player financially. However, in this case, Shaffer was given a lifetime of financial security from the Browns and he needs to honor his part of the deal...regardless of where or whether he plays.
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According to my local newspaper Shaffer has been given permission to seek a trade. If you are not going to be part of the solution then you become part of the problem.
what would we trade for?
a pick? a player? two players?
send him out of here then... Tucker, McKinney, Sowells, and Matua can hold down the right side..
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You see Willie,it's strictly business from both sides. That's my point.
If the "emotion" of things were let go,and you look at it from "a business standpoint" each side has their own agenda.
All I'm saying is,if you look at it from Shaffers side,can you blame him for "wanting to seek a trade"? The Browns have the option here. That goes without sayiong. That's what giving him a signing bonus essentialy does.
But every time a player tries to do "what he sees as best for his own future" it's no cause to "slaughter the guy". The NFL is a business,not a "game" to these guys. Teams show no loyalty to players anymore just like players show no loyalty to the teams anymore.
There's two sides to the coin. That's the only point I'm trying to make here.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I agree with you,Pit. Teams know that players go to the most money and players know the money dictates the players that are kept.
The only group in this mix that has emotional ties are the fans...who get disappointed or overjoyed when the business partners make their decisions.
The only constant is the Orange,Brown and White and our feeling to it.
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Exactly. I don't care about players other than they stay healthy and help us win games. The name on the back of the jersey doesn't matter to me. And that is about the guys I like.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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According to my local newspaper Shaffer has been given permission to seek a trade. If you are not going to be part of the solution then you become part of the problem.
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what would we trade for?
a pick? a player? two players?
send him out of here then... Tucker, McKinney, Sowells, and Matua can hold down the right side..
I'm of the mind set that after the LCB inccendent last season, I want to keep KS as insurance, and I'm sure Romeo who's job is on the line agrees. So any trade would have to be quite sexy for the browns.
that said....
If I'm KS's agent, My first call is to K.C.
they have lost a few linmen this year, and there have been rumors that they are looking to trade L. Johnson. How freakin' good would that 1-2 punch at RB be for us.
I would also make a quick call to SD to see if the door is truly closed on Turner.
Off the top of my head, those two or a 1st rounder next year would be no brainers for the browns.
Oh, also maybe our new best buddy in the sand box, Dallas to sniff around Julius Jones or Marion Barber.
In case you can't tell, I'm nervouse about Jamals health and what happens if he goes down.
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According to my local newspaper Shaffer has been given permission to seek a trade. If you are not going to be part of the solution then you become part of the problem.
Good news.
I hate the idea of taking that kind of cap hit and I *really* hate the idea of losing what would have been, at worst, some high quality depth on the OLine, but it does give us more cap room for next offseason and to be honest, it's the right thing to do. In terms of the cap space, it should be enough for another major signing.
And I agree; if you're not part of the solution, you may not be part of the problem, but you sure as heck aren't of much use.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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We are in agreement here and I think both sides have been presented very well...so it's all good.  The funny thing is, we haven't heard a word from Shaffer himself and it is highly likely that this whole thing is being blown out of proportion...as has been suggested in this thread many times before. To your point, Shaffer's agent would be grossly neglegent in his responsibility to his client (Shaffer) if he didn't stir the pot here. It sucks from the fan's point of view, but from a business viewpoint, he (the agent) is doing exactly what he is paid to do. I'm just still a little giddy that we actually have a player that someone else might get desperate to obtain from us...it's a great feeling! This will likely get very interesting.
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Everyone keeps saying we'll be sacrificing depth bringing Shaffer in? Well, yes and no. What happens is we get an OL in return? Maybe one of these teams that needs an offensive tackle has a promising young guard that started his first season last year or is stuck on the bench behind two vets?
I'm just speculating at this point but it's definitely a possibility. Obviously LCB is the key to this equation. If he doesn't need a second surgery, Shaffer wll probably be on the next flight out of Cleveland. I don't know when me might get that information but I'm sure Savage will take a wait and see approach if no one ponies up what we want in return.
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very possible... but the concern is because we know we have Shaffer already, the depth we are worried about already exists.... what we get for him is unknown. It is at best a 'Maybe'. A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Haha, I know.......but what we're striving for is quality depth (not just warm bodies). In my opinion, we still don't know if Shaffer qualifies. What kind of boggles my mind is that he's going to have an EASIER time on the right side, get paid the exact same amount of money and he still wants to be traded? I don't know about Kevin but who else would complain about having a lighter workload without having to take a pay cut?  LMAO. I hope this was his agent suggesting it and not Kevin because guess what Kev, you ain't that good.
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K, I;ve been checking in on the post here and there but am not going to go thru 7 pages to see if this point has been made, so forgive me if it has.
Can anyone justify having Shaffer as depth with the size of the contract he has? Its just not realistic. Sure, we could say we want to renegotiate his contract but he doesn't have to. He could tell us to get bent. At which point, we either eat it, cut him or trade him.
In my mind, either Shaffer moves to the right side or we trade him. Most speculate he'd be a bit better on the right side and I agree. In fact, I think he'd be better than Tucker. Shaffer, although not so nimble, is still quicker than Tucker who seems to have slowed dramatically.
In an ideal world, I'd like to see Tucker move inside and Shaff to RT. I think most people would.
But saying that Shaffer could be "quality depth" is ludicris.... You don;t pay your depth $36 mil over 7 years.....
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You don;t pay your depth $36 mil over 7 years.....
thats really not the way to look at it....
we would be paying him about 800,000 for this year....and another 2.8 million next year....that 3.6 for 2 years....
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I get that Racer..and I see your logic.
However, if we just want to have Shaff sit as depth, this is the year we'd probably get the most out of him trade wise. Teams can look at him and figure ok, we've got one more cheap year out of this guy before he starts making cake.
At the start of the following season, people are going to see what he's due and the fact he wasn;t a starter and there will be less of a market. Then we have to decide to cut him or pay 2.8 mil for a bearded bench ornament.
The situation needs to be resolved ASAP in my opinion. Either trade him or come to an agreement that he can shift on the line.
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His salary more than TRIPLES after this year. So he was going to be leaving after this year anyway. Those numbers pretty much tell the story. Unless he pans out to be the long range answer at RT this year. I mean Tucker is getting a little older and has only playerd two full seasons out of the five he's been here. But if the FO didn't see him starting next year,he would have been cut after this year or traded. I mean triple salary? Those numbers don't lie.
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Can anyone justify having Shaffer as depth with the size of the contract he has?
Yes I can
Are we in cap trouble... nope.... Do we have cap room... yes... just how in the hell does Shaff's contract hurt us this year.....not one single bit. If we are still under the cap next year it won't hurt us then either. As long as we have cap room, it won't hurt us a damn bit. I think some posters act like the players checks are coming out of their own checking account 
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His salary doesn't hurt anything unless it is part of the reason we are unable to sign someone else.
Cap really isn't a big problem on a year to year basis. The way you structre contracts and how the bonus money is distributed is the key.
Right now, it would probably cost the team more to cut or trade him then it is to keep him.
I sometimes get the feeling people don't really understand the structure of cap and what it means. A team who is way under the cap in a given year might not be on solid ground as far as the overall cap picture when you look at the picture 2-3-4 years down the road. And teams right up against the cap in a given year might be in great shape as far as the cap.
I will say the overall investment in the O-line is pretty high as far as a percentage of overall team expense. Steinbach,Bentley, and Shaffer are a big load to bear...and over time I find it hard to see how we will keep them all unless we can get by with lesser guys like Sowells and then a rookie behind him when it is time for Sowells to re-new.....or we lessen the load at other positions.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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We had a discussion on the boards about Shaff when he was signed. If my memory still works most of us thought we could dump him after his third or fourth year without it costing us to much. We are not hurting right now, and to just give away a starter (or solid backup) on the o-line just makes no sense. Remember injuries happen every year, and with the Browns they happen often. 
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I hear Pit wants Shaffer traded to Minnesota for Adrian Peterson.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 |
Getting rid of a decent linemen in his prime when you have no dependable, viable backup is silly.
Schaeffer stays until we draft a RT.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
If Shaffer wants out, you may have to oblige before he becomes too unhappy and is a problem.
On the other side, I hope it doesn't happen, because Shaffer is still solid, and using him or Tucker on the right gives us a good OL for once. Tuck at RG would work as well.
Now if someone is wanting a LT which is a high priced commodity these days in the NFL, we better be getting something worth while in return. Not another Tim Carter.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Schaffer trade????????????
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![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
