DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns' Mess Starts with Haslem

The way i see it is LaCanfora probably does enjoy bashing the Browns. Is it because of Lombardi? who knows...maybe.

The problem that i see is that this fo...meaning Haslam and Farmer, are lobbing softballs to him with all the stupid crap that is likely going on.

Without one you don't have the other.

Hey all! Been a while since I've posted. Just been reading from time to time. Lot of back & forth, bickering, what-not in this thread. I will leave it short and say it's not the end of the world and I think the media IS making it seem a tad bit worse that it really is.

That said, the thread title is 100% true. "Browns' Mess Starts with Haslem". The man is now on a slippery slope because of his actions. And he is holding what we hold near as he tries to get better footing.

I will wait and see. I need to make it through the text fiasco outcome, free-agency, & the draft. THEN I will make more judgement on the state of things. This period will tell us a good bit more about Farmer.

But I am mainly looking at this period as a crucial season for Jimmy. Where he might or might not gain proper perspective & start making the right decisions. Because if things continue the way they are, it really WILL be as bad, if not worse, than it is right now.

I try to be pretty realistic actually. At least IMO

How many OC's have we had since Haslam took over? How about FO and HC turnover? I see zero stability since hen took over. In fairness I didn't really see any when Jr. owned the team either. To me the total lack of continuity spells dysfunction on some level.

And actually Tab, you have brought up many points that lead me to believe exactly as I do about the Manziel pick. You have pointed out, quite well I might add, just how well Farmer did in the draft after round 1. How well he did at finding UDFA's. And in that light, he's shown to be a great evaluator of talent.

With all of that in mind, I simply don't see how that same man came up with the idea of drafting an undersized QB with only two NCAA seasons under his belt, from a system non conducive to the NFL with character concerns. It just doesn't add up to me.

So I combine what is written with some common sense logic that adds up from my perspective.

As for next year? Well that depends on a lot of things. First, as of this moment we don't have a QB. If we re-sign Hoyer, do we get the Hoyer from the first half of last season or the second half? Neither of us know the answer to that question and that answer will be critical to having any clue about next season.

Secondly is the schedule. Yes, we won seven games. Some of those wins were also against the weakest conference in the NFL. That's just the reality of it.

So speaking of next year is very pre-mature from any perspective.

I do think the entire texting from the sidelines thing is pretty stupid, but I believe if Haslam would keep his mitts out of things, Farmer could end up being a very good GM.

Yes, it does.

We have been a wildly dysfunctional laughingstock for the better part of 15 years now.

Good call.

I'll split the T-shirt profits with you, provided Manziel hasn't already trademarked the phrase.

Pretty sure we're off the hook for any slander lawsuits at this point.

I'd wager that he's already ahead three-fold simply on merchandise sales.

Merchandise sales are a part of revenue sharing.

Robert Kraft and Paul Allen and 29 other owners make the same amount of money off a Manziel Browns jersey as Haslam does

Yup, and Manziel costs so little that I'm betting that Haslem is still ahead.

Remember: for a period of time this year, Manziel was the #1 selling jersey in the NFL. That's a boatload of money coming in, and it doesn't even begin to look at all of the other items out there, the boost in ticket sales (the season immediately sold out and there was a 20% bump in season ticket sales), etc...

It was a cash bonanza.

Well, on that front, we should've just let the Cowboys take him in the 3rd or 4th and pocketed the money from the Dallas jersey that would've sold #1.

Hell, I could make an argument that Haslam would've made more money from Cowboys Manziel jerseys than Browns ones.

It's not something you can quantify, but I'd argue that fielding a winning team is more profitable in terms of ticket or PSL revenue long term.

I would wager that it's a losing investment long term when you factor in avenues not taken in order to waste the pick on him. But either way, I don't think it's the financial boon so many make it out to be.

+1

I really respect the guys on this board.

But, I'm finding hard to believe the things I'm reading. As I said last year at this same time, four months from now it will be like none of this ever existed.

I am still celebrating we didn't destroy the next 5 years by drafting Carr or Teddy Teeny Hands.

I will apologise to you guys when I see one of them, make ONE clutch downfield vertical throw, in a December game that means something. Just one and I will humbly ask for forgiveness.

I'm still celebrating that we got rid of the entitled, immature, disloyal, unevolved, whiney, daddies boy who passed himself off as an NFL coach. Those are some excellent offensive statistics he compiled. Awesome!

Ever read the story about how he showed up to work out Manziel before the draft and they had no wide receivers and no footballs? It must of been Dads job, or Moms, to make sure he was reminded.

How are we ever going to survive without those elaborate
route trees?

I believe that Shanahan was a huge disappointment. I also have a feeling he orchestrated, and relished in the Manziel end of the year disaster.

Jimmy has been disappointing and the mess does start with him. Manziel has been
more than disappointing. Farmer has been going downhill since fleecing the Falcons and immediately falling back into the Brown's tradition of taking a top 5-10 number one draft pick and using it on a defensive player who can't/wont tackle. Its hard to be positive about anything outside of the good players that we do have.

La Canfora has established himself as a first class Brown's troll. He's a hater and doesn't try to hide it. Is he a small man? I'll bet he's a short guy. Angry little guy like the other angry little Browns troll Florio? There are more bizarre statements in this piece than there are on the posts I'm reading.

Kudos to the dawg who posted La Canfora's affectionate admiration of the enabled, spoiled, Daddy's boy only to contrast it with the detailed hatchet job he did on him one year earlier.

You're messin with people's agendas.

Yeah, we really dodged a bullet by drafting Johnny Owl Eyes instead.

I'll try to present this in a positive way.

I watched Carr for four years. If a quarterback has even a remote chance of being "the guy" for my Browns I will look long and hard. At no time, ever, did I see him as the guy who could stand on the podium holding a Lombardi. When we had Carr pimps on the board I challenged them to watch him on his next game against USC. They did. And... they jumped ship fast. He may get in a rhythm in meaningless games, but when things get tight... its over.

Teddy doesn't have the arm or accuracy to win three playoff games in a row. He doesn't. He can't make the throws.

Manziel was the only guy in the draft who had, who showed, the mentality to step up when playing big games and perform his best. Manziel proved he could step up on third down, against top college defenses, and do what great quarterbacks can do -- get a first down 70% of the time. Manziel's pro day showed he could make every single throw and completely reversed guys like Warner and Jaworski's opinions of him. I labeled Manziel as high risk/high reward a number of times on this board. He still is. Everything changed with the rolled bill. I also learned he is a BS artist. We were misled at the time concerning his work ethic.

But, in many ways I see him as less of a risk. We will know where we are at with him midway through the fall.

As I've said, better one year and a wasted #22, than 5 years and a wasted #22.

Manziel was the only one who had a shot at being a franchise guy. We took our shot. Right now it appears we missed again. If you think Carr or TTTH are going to be super bowl winning quarterbacks then I disagree.

Was Bernie Kosar right about the Browns after all?

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Bernie Kosar: disgruntled ex-employee or right all along?

Back in December, Kosar made waves when he went on Mike Trivisonno's radio show (full interview here) and blasted the Browns following their 30-0 home loss to Cincinnati. It was the first career start for rookie Johnny Manziel and the loss essentially ended any shot the Browns had at the playoffs.

Kosar spent much of the interview taking shots at the Browns' front office and reiterated time and again that, essentially, people within the front office needed to stay in their lanes.

"You need that linear focus of just doing what you're supposed to do," Kosar said in the interview. "If you're a nose guard, you're gonna stop the run. DB, you're gonna stop the wide receivers. If you're a general manager, you're looking at players. If you're a quarterback coach, you're going to coach the guys that they get you and you just stick to that. And [the Browns] do everything else but that."

At the time of Kosar's interview, much was made of what he said as it pertained to the quarterback situation: "The names change, but the way we do things as a culture above them is still the same. ... And until that changes, we're always going to have two quarterbacks that we just manipulate back and forth and throw names in there, but it's not going to be consistently successful."

Revisiting the interview after a week of ugly news -- Mary Kay Cabot's report of punishment looming for Ray Farmer for texting the coaching staff during games and Jason La Canfora's report that paints a picture of a blurred line between the business and football sides of the building -- and it's clear there was much more to it than just helping the quarterbacks succeed. Begin with his take on Mike Pettine's performance:

"He was hired under these set of rules where everybody gets to giggle and laugh and talk about things and everybody is involved in everything," Kosar said, "and he was hired in a tough, tough spot, in a culture above him that's not a football culture. It's not a winning football culture, so it goes above that."

Culture. So many GMs and owners and head coaches and any other number of team personnel love to toss around the word "culture." If Browns fans have learned anything since 1999 it's that culture is really important. Maybe the Browns were making progress on a culture change during their 7-4 start, before the train flew off the tracks and the pressure mounted to switch quarterbacks.

This week has shed new light on the Browns' culture, and it's not pretty.

"This is an obsessive game of high stakes, high competition," Kosar said, "and the feeling of winning is good. But the distaste that those guys -- [Bill] Belichick -- that distaste that they have for losing fuels them to obsessively focus on their job. And you can't expect a 23-, 25-year old kid to know that.

"If they don't see the examples from the people above them, then how are they supposed to know? They don't even know, sometimes, what they don't know, if that makes sense."

Who knows? Maybe Kosar was just being a disgruntled ex-employee. Or maybe he was on to something.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/02/was_bernie_kosar_right_about_t.html

I wasn't enamored with either Bridgewater or Carr.

But if I puked on my shirt, I wouldn't celebrate the fact that I didn't crap my pants.

My new one line....

I have a list of about 100 what I call:
"rules of survival" this just became one.

Okay, Okay I gotta ask. Why Not?

in reality at my age ... I celebrate that daily... well mostly

I would love to see that list. If you ever get completely bored you should post it in the everything else forum. Better yet, write a book and make a bunch of money selling it. You just need to find cute or funny photos to go with each one.

And here I was, thinking things were bleak.

I know this post was several pages back, but it is too delicious to resist.

You get on me for agreeing w/PDR and then tell me that I see everything as black and white.

Seriously dude, do you work for the Browns? Because you make as much sense as the Browns do. Which is zero.

What I did was EXACTLY the opposite of black and white. I argue w/the guy all the time. We can't stand each other, but he made a good point and I got PAST our hostilities.

And you are full of crap w/you saying I have an agenda. Like you don't? LMAO

I don't like Farmer. I like Pettine. I don't like Haslam, but I did at first. I don't like the team president getting involved w/breaking down film. I do like our OL coach. I don't like Farmer texting plays to the OC. I do like our RB coach. I don't like the owner telling the team who to draft. I do like the DB coach. I don't like the FO telling the coaches which qb to play. I do like the LBer coach.

That looks like balance.

Far different from guys like you, Daman, 32, Memphis, etc.......you know........."you guys" who play regime wars.

Oh, and I absolutely loved the article that was posted after this fantasy post you made to me. I bet you almost crapped your pants. Oh wait.......you did respond to it and said how you could not believe the piling on.

Really?

No, I mean ...............REALLY?

Were you here last year? All the speculative articles were GOSPEL by the majority of the very same guys ripping on the "bozos" this year.

Pffftttttttt..........you guys suck!

The homeless guy's record isn't very good. I don't want him running the team.

Well, we have to see what happens and if the Browns have to surrender a draft pick.

And I don't think it matters how much Pettine has on his plate. He seems up to the job. Taking this team from 4-12 to 7-9 is a pretty good move in the right direction.

But that's good input and the kind that I was looking for. Thanks.

Pffffffft. Word.

Thanks for the notoriety, but no more so than the person who resurrects the past and plays the H & H ticket, you know...The Big Show. We all have our preferences, Vers...

I don't get the taking of sides of the various regimes myself. If they do ok I am fine with them, if they suck I want them out of here.

I forgot all about the Kosar thing. Mostly because I passed it off as guy who's upset to be pushed away from the team.

But damn, he might have been onto something all along.

thank you.

Overall, I think we all want them to figure this thing out. I hope they can. If not, we're looking at more of the same and frankly, that's going to be hard to stomach..

Perhaps the best one liner I've heard in a long long time..

I'm going to use it.. thanks PDR

Where could the team go next? According to some (and I don't disagree), nobody of significance wants to come here. I expect you'd have to start with an ownership change...

no. drafting players with drug problems has been recorded as ONE OF THE DYSFUNCTIONS of this team.

I don't see it as a dysfunction at all...to me it could be a good thing if he did it for the right reason. What we have right now is a talented kid with a problem. That problem is going to destroy his NFL career, and his life.

If he faces it and gets help, then he has a chance.

What the Browns have irregardless is a question mark at qb. With most rookies, its 'will he pan out'? With Manziel its 'can he get well so he has a chance to pan out'? Two factors.

This is why we have to grab someone to play QB.

If, and only if, Manziel gets help, he could very well show up humbled, make amends to his team-mates, and get down to the business of learning to be a QB. What if Manziel had Hoyer's work ethic and desire to be great last year? Is he a better QB? I think so, but until he walks the walk, we will be looking for some stability.

him too. but in 2014 we drafted another with a drug problem. Johnny Manziel. the guy should have went into rehab the day we drafted him.

What do you base this on? (And please don't say a photo)...

his dad, mary k, pictures, and most of all he is in rehab. now you want say other wise than What do you base this on?

Do you have a direct quote from his Dad? The rest is speculation or allegation...

I agree. Maybe I just want the HC to have more say than he seems to have in the selection of the players that he thinks will do the job.

I know that we don't want too much going onto Pettine's shoulders, but isn't this really who we're banking the future of the franchise on?

I know that Farmer is the GM, but maybe we can keep it in mind that he's been in the job barely longer than Pettine has.

I also wonder how much of the draft process was really Farmer's to begin with. I'm sure he was involved already, but it was the scouting reports from Lombardi's scouts that he was working with to make the draft decisions.

It's really disheartening but these mistakes need to stop. The Browns sending messages to the sidelines or selecting players with bad character issues needs to stop. It isn't worth the headaches. The team can't hire a babysitter for each immature player and compound the problem by violating rules.