DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum NBA / Cavs Discussion II

You knew the streak had to end sometime... a loss can do a lot to refocus and now they don't have to worry about how many the streak is going to go to so that might take some stress off as well...

Sucks that they lost, but you just have to tip your cap to Indy. Guy makes a lucky shot, and the Cavs can't bounce back. It's going to happen.

They need to come out tomorrow and punish the Lakers.

While the Pacers have little talent, they play just as hard as anyone. Teams that play hard in the NBA are going to win some games.

Well, hopefully the new streak starts tonight. During the Pacers game, they had a strong first quarter and then it was as-if someone poured a bucket of ice on the team cause they just went cold.

I was digging the nice winning streak there too

sizable lead with a few minutes left in the 2nd.

We all know how athletic LBJ is, but man, he may be one of the smartest basketball players I've ever watched. He has completely mastered the pick and roll. He just knows where everybody is on almost every play.

yep, he makes damn near all his passes with his eyes closed.

love just hit his 6th 3 of the game.

I think for the Lakers to become relevant again, they badly need a athletic 2 way center. They should throw massive $$$$ at Hassan Whiteside whenever he's available. Him + Randle will fix that franchise and give them cornerstones.

5:31 left in the game., and if Thompson can get 3 boards and score 1 more point, and if Mozgov can score 2 more points, then we will have 35 guys with double doubles in this game.

We playing the Washington Generals today?

Almost. The Lakers.

What a typo. Oh well. I often say, make no small mistakes.

As it finished, 3 double-doubles, 3 with 10 rebounds, and 82 points total between Kyrie, Kevin Love and Lebron.

If Lakers were playing to lose, then it was a win for them AND us lol.

Really happy to see Love have a game where he was on fire. I loved that the team realized it and all kept feeding him the ball.

I really like our Cavalier team and the players on it!

shumpert is starting to develop some respectable offense to compliment that defense of his.

man, we are developing nicely.

Just watched the highlights. What an oop to Shumpert.

Shumpert is exactly the type of unheralded, underrated, undervalued player that fits a perfectly complimentary role to put a team over the hump.

Yeah that play was sick... he had someone in his face and pounded it on that oop!

We look like a different team than earlier in the year.

The trades were excellent.

But, the key is still LBJ. He is playing so much harder and w/so much more passion now. He is the straw that stirs the drink.

Or we just got enough of the right pieces to make it all work. Your personal crusade against James is something else.

Up yours.

I actually had a chance to watch today's game, Vers. It's not often that watching a game can actually happen for me.

LBJ had something like 8 points through three quarters. What matters is that we're playing as a whole. No more "watch LeBron take over" shows. That's a sure way to lose.

But, I guess it's par for the course for your personal crusades against everyone. The hypocrisy about "agendas" from you paints you as a giant hypocrite. Throwing out juvenile retorts such as the above doesn't help too much, either.

so Vers he has a point.

its just a funny coincidence how we went on a nasty win streak and played better when lebron came back and you were no where to be found, after bashing our best player when we was losing.

Look...........shut the hell up. You have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

I was actually saying that LeBron was playing w/energy and passion.

Your personal crusade against me is sick. I don't even know who you are, but I am always reading BS like this from you.

Get lost.

Okay Swish........you are a saint and I am a devil.

Good God..........you guys are unbelievable.

This is the cat that goes around calling others juvenile.

Is this part of that old marketing campaign to sell lemon lime soda? I think you did it in the wrong order though.

Make 7...

Big thing to me is that Iman played 29 minutes. Glad he's feeling healthy.

You put up one of the little yellow emoticon guys when people accuse you of being a simple man who relies on strawman arguments of black and white to make a point...

...and then you...

Love had one 3 where I almost thought he missed the shot, because he dropped the shot without even moving the net. He was absolutely locked in.

If I have a complaint about today's game, it is that the Cavaliers gave up way too many points to a bad Lakers team. I know that they were never in jeopardy of losing the game, but they gave up way too many easy baskets.

They were also way too sloppy with the ball tonight. They had 14 turnovers, (the Lakers had only 7) and the Cavaliers had 6 steals to 11 for the Lakers. Can't be that careless with many teams and won the game.

I did think, however, that their passing was flat out amazing at times. It was like a symphony with some of their passes,complete cross court passes finding the open man for a wide open shot ..... very nice.

We did not win the rebound battle, which is odd in a game like this. We actually tied 46-46 in rebounds tonight. We also blocked 7 shots, which was quite good. Mozgov had 4 blocks (man is he exactly what this team needed, or what?) and Shumpert had 2. Shumpert also had 4 steals, which was impressive. He is rounding back into form.

I truly believe that Griffin deserves executive of the year. I cannot think of any other executive who had as big an impact on their team this year, and especially all throughout the year. He played the trade game like a virtuoso. Some want to give Lebron the credit, and let's face it, he had a huge hand in Love being willing to come here ...... but other guys he brought in, like Jones, Miller, and so on have done little. Griffin brought in Marion, who has not yet really fit into his new role, but he not only executed the 2 big trades, he also worked his way through the early trade game, making sure he has trade exceptions and such that he could use to make these later deals.

He also handled the Irving situation beautifully. He got him to sign a max deal, for the max term, and that was really the 1st step in all of the rest we have seen this year. I knw that I questioned whether or not Kyrie was a max player, but he has proved to be so far.

Griffin also wisely traded for Haywood. That could be a huge, massively important chip next year. He re-signed Andy, and that seems iffy at best right now, but the year after next is a non-guaranteed year fir Andy's deal, and that is another $10 million trade chip.

I am so impressed with the way he has handled what was originally going to be a rebuild ..... but which turned into a championship contending season. He also stood firmly in his head coach's corner when things were getting rocky.

I can't think of any other NBA executive who had anything approaching as good a year. He also set the team up for future years.

Can Danny Ferry still win?

It is hard to give Griffin the award when he literally had nothing to do with his biggest acquisition choosing his team.

However, he did have a big hand in many of the other pieces falling into place. Do you penalize him for successfully making room for Lebron?

I think that room was mainly built by his predecessor.

His predecessor bought some of the parts. Griffin built the mansion.

We lucked into the 1st overall pick, which allowed us to to trade for Love. I admit that a of of pieces fell into place. However, this was a deeply flawed team, even with Love and Lebron added in. We had to give up much of our young depth, and pay people to take them in some cases. I hated to see us have to trade Zeller, and also give up a 2nd round pick for Boston to take him, That was a painful deal to make, but when you have to make room to fit the best player on the planet onto your roster, it is a move you make.

We had draft picks that we could use. I will say that was a huge advantage for Griffin. However, if we look at this year's roster and compare it to the roster he inherited, what do we still have left?

Irving, Thompson, Delly, and Andy, who is hurt again.

We drafted Harris. Meh, but what do you usually get in the 2nd round?

He traded for Haywood, which is a potentially huge deal for next year.

Obviously we signed Lebron, and traded for Love. Those were huge deals, and along with Kyrie set the foundation of the team.

Then what?

We signed Miller, Jones, and Marion. So far all of these are iffy, at best. 2 were pure Lebron moves, and Marion was a guy who Griffin really likes, and wanted here. All 3 have playoff experience, and may still be useful in the playoffs. So far, though, we have got very little from them.

We had Andy, and he, of course, got hurt. Tristan was a decent enough player, but hardly a game changer. Dion had problems fitting in here.

I am still astonished that Griffin turned Dion Waiters, Alex Kirk, and Lou Amundson into JR Smith, Iman Shumpert, and a 1st round pick that was vital in also getting Mozgov.

Think about that for a minute. He turned Waiters, Amundson, Kirk, and an extra 1st round pick into Shumpert, Smith, and Mozgov. That is just astonishing. That is executive of the year type work there. He also did so using a trade exception he created with another smart trade for non-guaranteed deals earlier in the year, which he then traded away to create the exception that allowed us to add Mozgov. The trade exception created when Andy got hurt allowed us to make the Shumpert/Smith deal. There was some luck involved, but he took bad luck and turned it into good for the team. He worked on the Mozgov deal ever since Andy got hurt. I am still stunned that Denver was willing to give him up. There is such a shortage of top end big men, and yet Griffin managed to move the pieces around so that he was able to pry Mozgov away.

That is executive of the year type work.

I think Griffin has done a fine job. His best move was to get Mozgov.

Miller, Jones, and Marion are all horrible moves. Really bad. The Varejao extension is also an atrocity. One could also argue that the Love trade is a bad move at this point as well. All of these moves probably had to be made in order to get LeBron. But they still count on Griffin's resume.

Most of the draft picks Griffin had to deal were because Chris Grant spent several seasons collecting them. The cap space was also there as a result of Grant's work.

In the end, the only reason Griffin is even considered for this award is because LeBron decided to go home. If that didn't happen the Cavs are fighting for the eight seed again. There are many more deserving candidates who have built their teams over multiple seasons and are now reaping the benefits (Morey, McDonough, Myers, Ferry, Hammond, Olshey, Ujiri, etc.)

I don't think Griffin deserves it over Ferry.

I think it's pretty amazing what Atlanta is doing without a true star. Griffin lucked into a really good situation. His moves have, though, made the Cavs into a legitimate championship contender. But considering what he inherited, I don't think it was as "hard" to do as other situations.

I don't think Atlanta is legit championship contender, but you can't ignore how well they are playing, how they were constructed, and how well they are coached.

It has not worked out right now, but it also has not hindered the ability of the tea to make moves. His contract is guaranteed through the next 2 years, and then becomes a trade chip, with a $10 million non guaranteed year.

I think that it is important to keep building in those chips, because this team is not going to be drafting high, and if they want to continue to contend long term, they are going to have to have trade chips that they can use. Andy becomes that in 2 years. We can win without him if we have to, and he could be a guy we play really sparingly during next season to keep him fresh and healthy for the playoffs. I wasn't crazy about the extension, but I see why we did it.



Love is playing the 4rd role right now, and is working to fit in. He is playing better defense than he ever has. Right now he averages 35 minutes, 16.8 points, 10.5 rebounds, 2.3 assists, and that's pretty decent. Consistency has been his biggest issue. Part of that has been his uneven usage. He needs some touches down low to get him going, That is what the team should be looking to do. Today they seemed to make a conscious effort to get him going, and it paid off huge. Love plays in rhythm. With the Wolves, he could dominate the ball and get himself going. This year he has to learn a new way, and the team has to work at getting him going. I don't think that the trade was a bad move in any way. Wiggins is going to be a great player. I have no doubt about it, and I absolutely hated giving him up. However, we got a guy who can score, can clear the middle for Irving and Lebron to drive, and can also rebound. He has size, and while he has never been a good defensive player, he really seems to have made a commitment to improving in that regard. He also filled a position of need, and has allowed Thompson to move into the super-sub PF/C role that he has been so effective in lately.

Also, as far as Love, he is averaging 16.8/10.5/2.3. His career average is 18.9/12/2.4. It's not like he was scoring 50 per game, and is now scoring 5 per game. It is to be expected that his scoring would drop here. He is not THE offense here.

The one area I am concerned about with Love is that his shooting % has dropped off. It should be improving, but instead he has shot slightly worse than he has in the past. That really is the only area where O have concerns.

j/c:

I keep thinking about Haywood's 10M that will come off the books next year and imagine the possibilities.

Oh, and I'm fine with the Varejao contract. Yes, it didn't pan out as he was injured AGAIN, but with Mosgov clearly the starting C, having Varejao back to his role of coming off the bench to spark the second unit will be a plus- next year. Big men come at a premium.

Unless we trade him for some other assets, his 10M coming off the books won't really help us. We're already 18M over the cap and we haven't even re-signed Lebron and Love to new deals yet.

I thought we can release him and it have a similar effect as trading him. None of his money is guaranteed next year. Am I wrong about this?

Yeah, it's just a chip, and nothing more. However, we could even do what we did early in the year this year and trade

It's like earlier this year, where we traded a bunch of pieces, 1st for Keith Bogans, and we traded for guys like John Lucas III, Malcolm Thomas and Erik Murphy. Why? We wanted to get those big non-guaranteed deals? Why? Because when we traded them for next to nothing, we created trade exceptions. We kept creeping the value of the deals upwards, so that we finally landed a $5.5 million (approx) trade exception, and that allowed us to add Mozgov. The other exception we had was the injury exception, but we had to take back a player in the final year of his deal to use that exception. There was no such requirement with the trade exception we created by moving pieces around early on.

With regards to Haywood, we can trade Haywood to a team way under the cap, along with a low pick, and create a massive trade exception, or we can trade him for a player we like who makes around, or less, than Haywood makes.

I really hate the NBA salary cap rules, because they are stupidly difficult to follow .... but Griffin seems to understand them quite well.

the only thing we can do is trade him to a team that wants to dump a $10mil contract as they can cut him and only owe a tiny amount (forget exactly how much).

but, if we let him expire, then it is of no use to us as we'll be in the luxury tax even without him. that is part of the issue with trading him too because taking on a $10mil contract will cost Gilbert over $20mil after all the penalties.