DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Lawmaker Opposes Education Funding

Unions, P.C., and Politics should be the true focus of the education problems here because as I see the left has done a great job of deflecting their complicity in causing it but a great job of blaming the other guys. The major problems seem to come from the major inner-city,s of this country and guess what all are union and Dem voting blocks

I forgot to add IMO

Who cares about facts, lets just state opinions for the fun of right? Lets not do ANY research and just talk bad about the DEMs lol.

The Appalachian high school completion is about 4% behind the rest of the country. Also if you break down to specific counties you see that some counties are really struggling in education.

Example.
McDowell county in West Virginia has 50% high school completion rate of people over the age of 25 as of 2000

It's not a Dem vs Repub issue, its a poverty issue.

link

Jc

Good job Oklahoma!! Let's keep our citizens ignorant!!!

http://thinkprogress.org/education/2015/...-history-class/

Students protest proposed changes to U.S. history curriculum in Colorado
CREDIT: AP
An Oklahoma legislative committee overwhelmingly voted to ban Advanced Placement U.S. History class, persuaded by the argument that it only teaches students “what is bad about America.” Other lawmakers are seeking a court ruling that would effectively prohibit the teaching of all AP courses in public schools.
Oklahoma Rep. Dan Fisher (R) has introduced “emergency” legislation “prohibiting the expenditure of funds on the Advanced Placement United States History course.” Fisher is part of a group called the “Black Robe Regiment” which argues “the church and God himself has been under assault, marginalized, and diminished by the progressives and secularists.” The group attacks the “false wall of separation of church and state.” The Black Robe Regiment claims that a “growing tide of special interest groups indoctrinating our youth at the exclusion of the Christian perspective.”
Fisher said the Advanced Placement history class fails to teach “American exceptionalism.” The bill passed the Oklahoma House Education committee on Monday on a vote of 11-4. You can read the actual course description for the course here.
For other lawmakers, however, Fisher is thinking too small. Oklahoma Rep. Sally Kern (R) claims that all “AP courses violate the legislation approved last year that repealed Common Core.” She has asked the Oklahoma Attorney General to issue a ruling. Kern argues that “AP courses are similar to Common Core, in that they could be construed as an attempt to impose a national curriculum on American schools.”
Advanced Placement courses are actually developed by a private group, the College Board, and are not required of any student or high school. They are the primary way that student can earn college credit in high school. Taking advanced placement course can save students money and are generally seen as a prerequisite to admission to elite colleges. A representative from the College Board called the claims by Fisher and others “mythology and not true.”
In August last year, the Republican National Committee blasted the Advanced Placement U.S. History test, claiming it “deliberately distorts and/or edits out important historical events.” The RNC said a new framework for the exam “reflects a radically revisionist view of American history that emphasizes negative aspects of our nation’s history while omitting or minimizing positive aspects.” The College Board countered that the framework had not been changed since 2012.
Efforts by conservative school board members in Colorado to make the Advanced Placement U.S. History course “more patriotic,” prompted a walk-out by students. Under the changes proposed in Colorado “students would only be taught lessons depicting American heritage in a positive light, and effectively ban any material that could lead to dissent.” In South Carolina conservatives asked the College Board to exclude any material with an “ideological bias,” including evolution. Similar efforts are underway in Georgia and North Carolina.

Lurker, Apple is a for profit institution. Which would you prefer, a phone manufactured by the State or one from Apple? I know they are not exactly the same but to discount anything because the motive is profit is to always settle instead of excelling.

The sad thing is that the 1950's drop out probably knew more than the 2010 graduate.

Logically that's false, as kids today need to learn six more decades worth of history than kids in the 1950's.

I agree. The kids from the 50's knew Math, History, Geography and how to use a checkbook. They were much more equipped to live and excel in their world than todays kids are in theirs.

You can't compare a product to education. For profit education means they are not looking for the best interest of the child because they are looking to turn a profit.

For-profit charter schools are not selling any products, they get a specific dollar amount from the state per child. So how do you turn a profit when you are getting set amount for services? The only way is to add children and reduce services to the bare minimum.

DC I can only give an observation from my personal experience as what could be a contributing factor to the '2 steps forward, 1 step back' notion.

I've mentioned before I was in medical sales, specifically selling spinal hardware and related implant devices. My sales targets were neurosurgeons and orthopaedic surgeons. A minimum of a bachelors degrees was required for them to even consider your application when applying for a position in sales.

I did this for a little over 6 years. Each year we had our national sales meetings which were meant to team build, exchange ideas, demo new products etc. I went to the national meetings 4 of the 6 years. Of those 4 years, I literally do not recall ever seeing one black spine sales rep. The few black employees I recall seeing were at the home office in some sort of mundane administrative role probably making $35k - $40k per year. Not a terrible wage, but meager compared to potential wages that could be earned by the same rep.

My point being that while both the white kid and black kid may come from the same neighborhood and receive the same education, the opportunity for that next step into the professional level of a career may not always be there, without some serious hurdles. The only black sales rep I ever recall even seeing at a hospital was a former Ohio State and NFL football player and he was only able to break into the field because the hiring sales manager knew that surgeons would think it was 'cool', for lack of a better word to have him in the O.R. to talk football. After the novelty of that wore off he found himself without a job.

I'm not sure if it's a conscious decision by the medical device companies or hiring managers to largely or in my direct experience, almost exclusively hire white sales reps for various reasons, but the lack of diversity was blatantly obvious.

Maybe this limited experience I had was an anomaly, but it could offer a little insight demonstrating a great opportunity for the white person to excel financially, whereas the black person may have the door shut on them before it's even open and possibly in some cases make them settle for a lesser job out of frustration of equal opportunity. Hence, the one step back.

Correct - I think.

Teachers also pay a subsidized insurance premium while they are working, as well. Just like any Joe Blow that gets his insurance through work.

Now, once a teacher retires - do they still get subsidized health insurance?

Most people can't retire with full benefits after 30 years - putting them at age 52-54 or so. (many teachers can't afford to do that either, but some still try to).

Oh, I know. Schools have so much more to teach now than they did in the 50's. As to the $40k in the 50's compared to $40k now.....did I say anything about that? If so, I was wrong, as 40 THEN would've made you rich....40 now does not.

Yes, I am fully aware that it takes a degree to teach. I am fully aware that many/most teachers continue their education over the years in order to earn a masters degree, and I am fully aware they get pay raises for doing so. So, your ASSUMPTION is about as valid as a pile of dog crap.

Also, I am aware that just having a BA does not necessarily qualify you for certain teaching positions.



Again, you are ASSUMING (100% incorrectly) that my ruing not going into education is a "shot at teachers). It is NOT.

I had choices/options. At age 18-22 - becoming a teacher was not something I wanted to do or had any desire to do. Hence, I didn't.

I'm 46 now. I regret not doing so. (and I realize I would probably need at a minimum 1 more year of school, maybe 2 to become a teacher.) I love working with kids (had I been a teacher, elementary to jr. high would've been my choice) I love kids. I loved volunteering in class rooms for 6 years. (1 of those years was for a teacher that didn't even have my kid in class - she just asked me because she knew I loved doing it and she couldn't get any other parents to help. The other 5 years I helped in my daughters class - k-4. And before you make any more assumptions - I was lucky if I got to work with her for even 5 minutes on any given day. The other time I spent helping students that needed help. On an individual basis OR a group basis.)

I totally, completely loved doing the Jr. Achievement program last year - being the "instructor" if you will.

Guess what? The kids liked me. There isn't a single sporting event I attend at our school where at least 1 kid doesn't come up to me and say "Hi, do you remember me?"

No, sir, I was NOT taking a shot at teachers. It was a shot at me and my not having the foresight at age 18-22 to realize what I realized at an older age.

You are wrong.

Make a good product, you get to sell it (in the business world) Make a bad product, you go out of business.

Same with charter schools. If you excel at educating kids, kids will come to your school. If you're doing the bare minimum, that will reflect poorly on your school, and students won't come.

I took "early" retirement from teaching in PA with 32.06 years. I did not receive full benefits. I took a pension hit. In PA, 35 years or a certain age with so many years would constitute full retirement. I made this choice because of the state of education. It was no longer eduation as I knew it with meaningful real life instruction.

I continue to work in various capacities to pay for health care.

Yes, teachers pay into their health care while working. Upon retirement, teachers in PA are on their own. Most districts will offer the option to maintain the same health care plan but you pay full cost. It is a general misconception that teachers have health care paid for upon retirement - no.

Many teachers who retired 10 or more years ago do have the health care benefit at no cost. Most districtsno longer offer that.

You're missing his point. For profit means that you're overcharging at some level. This overcharge would better be spent on the students. Education should not be a for profit business. For profits also don't have a history of being better than their nonprofit/public peers. See any college in the U.S.

That idea is ideal. However, you are not dealing with a 4 X 4 finished product in the schools. Schools deal with human beings with a plethora of variables that may influence the outcome of the student (product). Some may be within the control of the school and some may not be.

You don't begin with the exact same "raw product".

They obviously weren't equipped well enough to know how to teach the next generation then, because if the kids today are that stupid and dysfunctional, it's the previous generations fault.

Kids today can write wicked formulas into excel, they can look up any report you need on history or geography, and banking is done on-line... Directions are on-line, phone directories are on-line. I'd say most kids are quite high functioning in what it takes to get along in the world in which they live. They are also far less racist and far less homophobic than the kids that graduated in the 50s..

In the end, you just sound like an old curmudgeon with the "we were so much smarter than they are" argument. Because it's BS.. and if there is any truth to it, blame the teachers, not the students.

+1

So........you don't think that the unions ,politics,and p.c. have anything to do with the state that of our public education in our country.... just follow the money imo

In Ohio - it USED to be 30 years, (and maybe a comination of years worked plus age...don't know for sure).

My mom taught 37, 38 - maybe even 39 years.

I know of a teacher here in our district that retired 2 years ago - not because he wanted to, but because if he didn't, the new benefit package would've applied to him. Retiring when he did was worth it, to him, because in his words "I would've missed out on too much benefit wise."

There are also many more that retired at age 53-54 and have never worked another job. (and yes, that means they were smart with their money while they were working, I know. I also know of people - not just teachers - but people that have what seems like great pensions - that can't retire because they can't afford it. But, with a house payment, 2 car payments, a boat payment, a place at the lake payment, etc.......gees, no wonder you can't retire. Any way, I digress)

So, with 32 years in, is your health insurance subsidized, or are you on the hook for the entire premium?

Nn

The district does toss in $100.00. Guess it could be worse. :-)

Where did you get all that from what I said? Jeez. Somebody hit the bottle early today.

Your long list of Crutches kids need today to get things done is interesting though. In the fifties, kids could think.

This is my biggest fear in education today. We're selectively choosing what to teach, what to enforce, etc. America has a checkered past that has a lot of great things, but if we don't look at the horrible things that this country has done in its history, we're bound to repeat them. I can't stand this need that we, as Americans, have to be portrayed as the best in everything. What was the line from The Newsroom?

I am not going to get into this because most of you will not even attempt to understand the reality of the situation and will instead turn it into yet another hate fest...............

....but man, it's amazing how far off base most of you are in regards to how the public education system works.

I mean...........WAY OFF BASE!!!

Well why don't you explain it to us? you're a teacher.

I actually worked for the state of Ohio Department of Education and I remember seeing how for-profit charter schools treated the kids, first hand. Simple things like food, why provide fresh fruit when the law says you can give them pop tarts? Which is a fruit and a starch, why give them real bagels when you can get really small cheap ones and cut them in half which will give them 2 starch servings. What ever charter schools can do to improve their bottom line they will do.

I believe that there are many factors on both sides, which is affecting education for children. I believe that ALL children should get a quality education no matter where they live.

100% agree

Because that is basically what you said.. and to confirm it, you said it again. Kids in the 50s could think, kids today can't.


Do you know why kids in the 50s didn't use the "crutches" that kids use today? Because they didn't have them. If they would have had them, they would have used them.... and how do I know that? Because over the next 40 years, THEY INVENTED THEM!!!!

What's funny is that kids of the 50s were viewed as pampered and spoiled by their parents who had lived through the great depression, WWI and WWII... you kids with your televisions in every house, your telephones, your indoor plumbing, your central heating and air... you have it SOOOOO much easier than we had it, it's going to make you SOFT and stupid....

Kids today don't know how to think... unbelievable.

Get some reading comprehension skills, of course its not the Kids fault! Its their indoctrinating teachers and people like you who promote their using computers to accomplish tasks at hand instead of being able to THINK their way through.

Kids in the past had calculators but were forced to learn Math anyway. Today you go to a store and the kid can't even make change without an electronic device!

Wake up and smell the coffee already!

Real Life is not an APP!

Real Life with Jack Hibbs Mobile App

We are very excited to introduce to you the new Real Life App!

For quite some time it has been our desire to bring all of Pastor Jack’s resources together into one easy-to-use location. Many of you have followed Pastor Jack, listening to him on the Real Radio program. Others have been receiving hisWords to the Wise devotional but didn’t know about the new Real Life TV program. Still others have watched his weekly teachings online but had no idea there were even more to see on YouTube. This new App will do just that! It will bring all of these great resources together making it easy for you to use and grow in your relationship with Christ.


Download our FREE App and you will have immediate, on-the-go mobile access to:
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•Tools & Resources to help you Know God better
•Connect with Pastor Jack through Facebook and YouTube
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http://reallifewithjackhibbs.org/real-life-jack-hibbs-mobile-app/

Ok, now I've heard it all. I have lived too long. Who the heck is Pastor Jack and how does he know anything more than any of us on real life? He doesn't even post here to be shredded alive! He has never faced the Dawg Talkers board trial of fire!

This Internet thingy has gone too far and its time to shut her down!
Thieves robbing our bank accounts.
Thieves charging on our credit cards.
Porn.
PDR.

Shut the stinking thing down!

Oh I was just pointing out to you that Real Life is an app.

Oh, ok then, I can live longer.

No. Life is not an app.

Here's a pic of young folks with their noses buried in the technology of the time:

See how old they look! Kids had it rough back then. They were Manly Men.

I never understood the whole "back in my day" arguments.

just an example: on the old board we had this guy named Dawg57, who always use to clown me because he was a Vietnam Vet, and said us soldiers today didn't know the first thing about war. he always said Iraq/Afghan was a joke compared to what he went through.

Thats relative. you can't compare the two because they aren't remotely the same.

it's the same thing with regards to education and such.

in the 1950's, they had to read newspapers and listen to the radio. car's weren't a necessity so much as it was a luxury. TV's were also a luxury. Also, let's not forget that segregation wasn't even a thing back then, because that was just a way of life.

look at now, or when i went through grade school(graduated 2005). The Internet, MORE history to know, schools with a lot of different racial groups in one class(depending on where you lived, of course), computers, Etc.

It's a completely different beast. The world has changed, and so has learning. If you took the kids today, and through them into the 1950s, sure, some of them, if not most would've cracked. No ipods or tablets or cell phones?

but the same is true vise versa. take some kids in the 1950's and put them in todays world. It'd be chaos. first off, the kids would be crying that they gotta go to school with blacks and hispanics and definitely Asians since we just finished fighting a war with them. then they wonder what the hell a computer, cell phone, tablets, and printers are.
the pace of the world is completely different.

sorry, i just get irritated, it is a night and day difference.

“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”
- Socrates

I still love that quote.

I ask the kids at school what they'll tell their grandkids when they ask, "Grandpa what the %&^8 were you doing with your pants down all the time!?!?"

Dawg57 was a Hero cuz he killed the Hun.

Those kids from back in the day INVENTED the Computer because they could think without one!

Those kids put Men on the Moon!

Wise up and pull up your pants swish!

so every single kid invented the computer.

got it.