DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Start Derek Anderson

If playing Anderson a series or two here and there kills Charlies ego for years to come, he has a frail mind.

Looks like I have more faith in the guy than you do.


No matter how good a team you have, you always have a weakest player and you should be looking for ways to replace him with a better player.

That isn't to say Charlie is the weakest by any means, but he isn't so good we need to close our eyes to other options.

I always find it odd the people who complain the most about the crowd are the people who don't go to games.

It is somewhat like people who complain about the system only to find out they don't vote.

[color:"orange"]I've read Peen post this now about 30 times in this thread, and I agree with him 100%...and I'm probably the biggest Frye supporter on this site...

If Anderson gets to start tonight and plays well he should get more looks as the season finishes, a series here and there wont hurt DA or CF...

Charlie's is the type of kid that wont get rattled by a little competition and in fact he's the type that will play better if he's pushed...At least that's the impression I've gotten from my conversations with him. [/color]

Kinda off topic, but...

Actually, that's one thing that's been very encouraging to me through this last week. Charlie was genuinely happy on the sidelines when we won, was genuine when he talked about Anderson doing a good job and, is more than willing to help him prepare for this week.

Not that we ever questioned his personality, but that's a true test of being a "team" guy and so far he's passed.

I'm "interested" to see Anderson play the game, but not excited by any stretch. Did you follow him in college at all? Ughhh...
Kid was always a tease and a half, but maybe some NFL coaching has helped?

Should be a fun game regardless. W/o their safeties, things are evened out a bit.

My entire point is that Charlie has not played well enough to avoid competition from anyone. Unless DA absolutley lights it up, we will be bringing in another QB this offseason. The writing is on the wall, whether its Quinn, Brohm or a veteran, that is the position Frye's poor play has placed us in.

I like the kid. Frye has enough talent to make it in this league and he definately has the work ethic. His personality is special. It really comes down to has he showed enough to lock down his position and he simply hasnt.

His reads are still to slow. His accuracy is all over the place. He throws to many up for grabs. He lacks that clutch mentality. His lack of arm strength is very noticeable as you constantly see receivers waiting for the ball. He has also fumbled the ball way to often.

I am not picking on the kid just stating the obvious.

Anderson appeared to make a quicker read and show better awarness within the pocket. There was pressure and it wasnt just a prevent defense like some have stated.

One thing i will say is that this was the best game the browns have ever played at picking up the blitz. The Chiefs blitzed linebackers, they blitzed safeties they blitzed the corner. It just wasnt getting there in time and we were making them pay and by the time the 4th rolled around they gave up on it.

They did not go prevent at all. It was a tight cover 2 which allowed that shufle pass to go for big yards. Everyone was locked up downfield and the RBs did a great job of being patient and then sliding into the open area.

Anderson can make throws that very few NFL quarterbacks can make. The TD pass to Heiden was a play that charlie throws a pick or throws away. It was great coverage across the board. He just had the velocity to thread the needle. The ball was put between a probowl corner and a probowl safety and they had excellent coverage.

Is this Charlie's team? Not until he shows he can lead this team to Wins.
Is DA the guy? Not until he shows he can lead this team to wins.

I am not sure if everyone is afraid of a quarterback controversy or the local flavor being outplayed by a scrub backup. Heck even toad made this thread to prove that he hasnt been spilling garbage about DA for 2 years. He has bashed him at every opportunity and the kid made him look bad. lol

From what I've heard I don't doubt they give Frye some comp next offseason...look for a vet to come in to challenge Frye.

People always talk about letting a player develop....maybe Anderson has developed.

Another thing that irks me.....if Anderson doesn't have a great game, some are going to be real quick to point that out..

I just like the tools the guy brings. The guy may have a head full of butter, but as far as pure tools, he is way better than Charlie....I don't see any harm in looking.

I know Charlie has game and grit, and that means alot and if he ends up our qb for the next decade...great. It is just that at this juncture, he hasn't done enough in his career to not explore options.

Who knows....maybe a little heat on the guy will make him bloom into a great qb??

[color:"white"] I am not sure if everyone is afraid of a quarterback controversy or the local flavor being outplayed by a scrub backup. [/color]

i would say for the most part, alot of these people follow a player instead of the helmet. as much as i don't like frye, i truly want to see him AND DA play more of this 3.2 we started last week. this may be the scheme to make them both look like pro bowlers (much like garcia in SF) <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think 3.2 seconds is a standard many teams look for...somehow we didn't or it was lost in the shuffle.

One thing about the 3.2 that hasn't been mentioned. The receivers are held to that as well...they need to be into their route and breaking open in 3.2 seconds. They can't be half-assing their route early on, expecting to get the ball 5 seconds later.

I would guess that it was just lost in the shuffle. We've been busy teaching new schemes and implementing new things with a new Coord. to a young QB... I think the previous week's drills were a means of refocusing, a way of saying.. "Ok, you've got all the tools and the learning, now do it all and put it all together in this timeframe each and every play". It's also a mental trick of sorts... if the QB is thinking about getting rid of it in 3.2, then he's not thinking so much about the guy that might be about to drill him. Less happy feet and more focus on what needs the focus.

[color:"orange"]I dont know if you're trying to go there or not, but I think you just touched on a big problem this season that hasnt been discussed much if at all as being a problem with the offense.... [/color]

i think they're also dumbing the playbook even more yet to accomplish this.
it may not work as well tonight because the steelers have had a little bit of time to game plan it, whereas the chiefs didn't know what hit them.

This is going to turn into somewhat of a tangent (I can feel the warmth in my forehead) - so sorry in advance


I agree w/ this statement.


Disagree w/ both of these. In my mind, that's not a valid comparison. His pocket presence was comparable to Charlie's in the first half for this game. I also disagree on the quicker reads. You could argue that Charlie should be quicker due his game experience - which is wasn't, so that's a concern. I thought Anderson was equally slow to read, but could make up for it with a faster release and more power on the ball. Something to chew on here is - perceived "read speed" has a lot to do with how far a QB has to go into their pregressions to find an open target. Edwards isn't getting open reliably, which forces more reads. Just something to point out. Who were they hitting? JJ and TEs - generally lower in the pecking order.


I agree with this in general, but "pressure" from KC is like a midget trying to slam a basket ball. They can't do it.

It was almost identical to Charlie's pass to Edwards - only Charlie's was longer. Haven't re-watched the tape yet - so if I'm missing something there, just shout.
Anderson is also great at throwing the ball right to defenders on longer routes. He has a mental block that makes the concept of the "touch" pass too much to comprehend. Watch close - he may show-case that special talent for us tonight even w/ sub-par safeties in the game. Any arc on the ball will be an accident or a tip.

Agree and agree. I'm leaning toward option "C" - "neither", but IMO Charlie has the better chance.


Anderson was our QB when we "won" and the whole "Anderson is great" is rediculous. Its one game and not an overwhelming performance, IMO. Had the defense layed their usual egg in OT, everyone would have been talking about Anderson's pick at the end of regulation (which Charlie would have been hung for, by the way). A HUGE chunk of his passing yards came from a shuffle pass. Most of our drives were sustained by the running game (where's that been all year). Thank goodness K2 has a 300 inch vertical leap - or Anderson's "clutch" 4th quarter pass was a better target to about 3 guys in red and white.

Too much emotion in these evaluations. We won - so no one cares what was wrong. Whatever. I don't care who our QB is as long as we win, but to praise the kid this much for next to nothing is silly.

Lets see how he does tonight. We'll get a better feel I think - one way or the other. If he's even decent, you have to at least consider the kid as an option considering his limited playing time.

Anderson's done nothing so far, in my mind, other than his job and in nothing more than an adequate fashion. The TEAM won the game. Not Anderson.

I brought it up because I haven't seen anyone talk about it and it is something I have thought about several times.

It is easy to say the line sucks when the QB gets sacked, but sometimes the qb just can't figure out what to do with the ball and sometimes the receivers aren't close to being open and the qb can't do anything with the ball.

Linemen can't be expected to hold blocks 4-5-6 seconds...it just doesn't work that way....but just read the board...the line sucks...we need a LT, we need guards... <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

This is a bit off topic but I thought the pass to Winslow was a pretty good one. If Winslow rolls out of his break and starts heading down field that pass goes for a lot of yards. Winslow rolled and squared. Now thats just a communication thing with the receiver. Hell of a job just to catch it because that ball was thrown where he expected Winslow to go.

I cant blame the QB for the throw because he threw to the empty area of the field where he expected K2 to hit I cant blame Winslow because he sat down and gave the QB a big target.

On the pick. Edwards adjusted his route and that play is a TD if not for a rookie QB mistake. He didnt make the correct read. He threw the quick slant into triangle coverage instead of allowing the receiver to get up field.

Edwards made the smart play based upon the defense. The quarterback looked like he went with the initial play instead of adjusting to the coverage.

It was a pick but that may have been the best route ran by Edwards all year. He went beyond the coverage instead of through the coverage where he had no chance. QB threw it where it had 0 chance of success even if Edwards runs the quick slant.

This is wrong. Charlie to Edwards and Anderson to Heiden were completely different. Neither one being "better" just different. Charlie's was a higher ball, had a fair amount of air under it, put it up where only his big WR could make a play on it between 2 defenders and Edwards did what he should do, he went up and got it... Anderson's was shorter, threaded the needle with a fastball, put it on Heidens backside which is the only place he could have gotten it between the defenders and Heiden made a great play to catch it, it missed the defender by about a foot.... Two great throws, two great catches... just different.

Let's experminent,play revolving QB's like it's MLB not the NFL and let the learning process of new Davidson system fall by the wayside while a QB contreversy builds.

Sounds quite productive.
<img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

Why not use a little common sense and at least let Davidson have the rest of the season with some continuity,without distractions,to let this team at least get comfortable with this evolving changes he's implementing things without confusion.

Let's put team first.Not just a single position,looks,feel it out at QB. You can say whatever you want,but this "experiment" of a drive here and there,will lead to players picking sides and dividing this team just when they're trying to learn and adjust to a new system. The timing and very idea is counterproductive simply due to the very recent change in OC's. I guess you feel a guy never having been an OC before,teaching a new system to a young O needs this type of distraction?

Brilliant.
<img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I dont want DA to get a drive here or there. That doesnt do anything for either QB.

I want to see DA tonight go into Pitt and pull out the win. Make a statement about his ability. Either way we will know a lot more tonight than we did this morning. Its often said the only difference for a lot of players is getting the opportunity. Looks like he will have that opportunity so he better make the most of it cause it might be his only chance EVER.

Pit I have been a "continuity pimp" for a long time.. at QB, at OC, at HC, at GM... so what you're saying resonates with me.... thus I'm torn like an old shirt. Because like some others, I saw a spark in Anderson... maybe it was just the team picking things up to help the back-up, maybe it was just the Cheifs because Frye was looking pretty good too.. .I don't know but in just a matter of a couple drives I got to the point where I WANTED to see him throw the ball in the redzone... when Frye drops back in the redzone I hold my breath...

So I'm torn... what I would really like is for Frye to start tonight and beat the Steelers 35-17 and put the argument to rest with a solid performance... but then I think, well what if Anderson does that?

[color:"white"] but then I think, well what if Anderson does that?
[/color]

<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What did Anderson do on Sunday that he didn't do in preseason?
How has he jumped from incompetent backup to possibly our future starter?

This is amazing - even around here <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

Ummm...lead us from a two touchdown deficit to come back and throw two touchdowns in the fourth and beat the Chiefs...against their first team..


I don't know, you tell me what he did... <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

[color:"orange"]Do you know the route design? [/color]

Tunnel vision.

Team who wins has great QB <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

Who created the deficit - since he's getting credit for all things?

The entire team elevated their game, but all praise Anderson.

Time will tell, I suppose. Opinions vary.

Why bother on that type of response?

Never said he was great. But you can't sit there and act like he didn't do anything worth a little praise. No one is calling him the future to our team, but saying that he at least deserves a look, especially if he plays good tonight.

How many times has that been said on this topic? ^^

link

For anyone interested.

I don't agree with all of this, but they saw a lot more of him in college than I did and are obviously a more reliable source for opinions on a player.

Makes him sound intriguing, if nothing else.

Let me know if this was already posted and I'll remove it.


ANALYSIS
Well-built athlete with a tall frame and long limbs ? Has a compact delivery, but raw mechanics ? Carries the ball low and will revert to a slight side-arm slinger-type of delivery when on the move ? Has a lot of passes deflected at the line of scrimmage when he does not unleash with a high release ? Throws a tight spiral with velocity and low trajectory, but shows inconsistency on most of his throws ? Has completed just a little bit over half of his pass attempts and is prone to forcing his tosses into a crowd, resulting in 57 interceptions for his career ? Plays with poise and will step up in the pocket to take a hit, but gets tunnel vision by locking on to his primary target, then forces the ball to that receiver, causing his wideouts to constantly look back at the pocket rather than progress through their routes ? Is best in the short and intermediate areas, where he can hit his targets on the move ? Has adequate foot quickness in his drops, but is inconsistent with his depth and push from the center ? Can get the ball out quickly when he needs to, but also shows a bit of a long-arm action too often ? Really doesn't set his feet consistently and throws fading or off balance way too much ? Has a tendency to just flick the ball and float it ? Doesn't always square up rolling right or left and lacks accuracy in all areas due to poor mechanics ? Knows how to take something off and use touch ? Can put good velocity on throws when he sets his feet and steps into throws, but is inconsistent reading defenses and finding the open receiver ? Has just adequate agility in the pocket, but does run well once he breaks out ? Displays all the physical tools you look for in a quarterback, but he hasn't stepped up and been the player he's capable of being ? His long ball accuracy is a very big concern, as he seems to have plenty of arm strength behind it, but his throws are frequently off target ? If some coach can unearth his talent, that NFL team can have a late-round find ? Will be drafted more on his physical ability rather than production ? Based on physical talent and arm strength, he's certainly worth a look in camp, but he needs to drastically upgrade his development to be considered anything more than a camp talent.


INJURY REPORT
No injuries reported.


AGILITY
Campus: 5.0 in the 40-yard dash ? 400-pound bench press ? 30-inch vertical jump ? 34?-inch arm length ? 9?-inch hands ? Right-handed.


HIGH SCHOOL
Attended Scappoose (Ore.) High School ? Excelled for the Class 3A (4A is the state's largest) Cowapa League member Indians ? Was the first individual ever selected the 3A Player of the Year in football and basketball in the same season ? Scappoose won the state title his senior year ? Selected the top quarterback in the state and second in the nation by Super Prep Magazine at the conclusion of his senior year ? Super Prep All-America pick and rated the magazine's 10th best player in the nation ? Also earned All-America honors from Prep Star and Student Sports ? USA Today Player of the Year for Oregon ? Threw for 8,177 yards and 85 touchdowns, and completed 61-percent of his passes during his three-year varsity career ? Second team all-state pick as a junior ? Averaged 26.8 points and 10.8 rebounds during his senior year on the basketball court ? For his 104-game basketball career, he averaged 18.6 points and 8.6 rebounds ? First team all-state choice as a junior and senior in basketball ? Finished his career earning four letters in football and basketball and two in track (shot put, hurdles, 1,600-meter relay) ? Played in numerous all-star games in football and basketball, including the inaugural National High School All-Star game in Highland, Texas ? Graduated with a 3.2 grade point average.


PERSONAL
Liberal Studies major ? Participated in the Manning Passing Academy in Louisiana and was an instructor at the EA Sports Elite 11 Quarterback Camp in Southern California, both in July, 2004 ? Son of Laurie Gobel and Glen Anderson ? Born June 15, 1983 in Portland, Ore.

No idea what the intial play was other than a mid level crossing pattern with the receivers drawing the deep coverage away from the middle but the defender was 3 steps behind winslow and there was noone within 20 yards out in front. The pass went to where I would have expected K2 to head. K2 didnt do anything wrong it was just sittind down and giving the qb the nice big target compared to running on through.

There's not a single thing you've stated here that I disagree with. The point I think is being missed is that the TEAM has a lot more to do with that victory than Anderson.
You know the adage - QBs get all the praise for a win and all the grief for the loss. How true.

Well it was 14-14 at the half, the Chiefs got the ball first and marched for a TD.. then Dinkins fumbled the KO and the chiefs got the ball back again... we interecepted and took over on the 20, we got 4 first downs in moving to the Chiefs 38 before punting and watching the chiefs march for their second touchdown... so I guess the defense created the deficit unless you think we're implying that our QB should score on EVERY DRIVE....

Nope, tons of praise for the entire team.

Either I just can't present a point well enough today, or its just not making it through.

Doesn't matter, I suppose. It is what it is.

At least everyone's being positive about something for a change.... <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Browns ST and Defense has put the offense in great position all year. In fact we are #1 in starting field position yet we have one of the worst scoring teams in football.

Wow - is that a sad statistic. Not sure if you're going anywhere with that, but I certainly wouldn't have guess that one.

[color:"white"] How has he jumped from incompetent backup to possibly our future starter?
[/color]

it could be that this is the 1st time anybody has ever seen him against a #1 D in a game that matters.
and charlies play all year coulda helped also. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh boy - you too, Knoxy? <w/ shakespearean "et tu, Brute" intonations> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

just trying to be positive about something for a change. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Considering that this team has lost 2/3 of its games, there should be no sacred cows.

I used to get attached to players. Not anymore. It's the uniform, the helmet, and the team that matter to me. Players will come, and players will go. If players aren't good enough, then they should be replaced by better players. It's the same as in any business. Results matter, and poor results result in unemployment.

You know what I want?..... I want to win. And I don't care who's behind center when we do it. Hell, if I thought a different QB every week would get us to the playoffs I'd be all for it. One of the things I've never understood was the fact that every position but QB gets substituted due to fatigue or performance issues in every game on a fairly regular basis. But if you suggest yanking the QB for half a game to get a look at someone else you're considerd a heretic. Why is that?

Having said that let me also say this......I think tonight will tell us a fair amount about DA. Assuming the line and WR's perform up to snuff we should be able to get some kind of read on Anderson's abilities. I hope. But I also think that unless he plays like the second coming of Johnny Unitas that it's still Charlie's job to lose, at least for the rest of this year, in the minds of the coaching staff. And their opinion is really the only one that counts.

[color:"white"]I can't help but think that many who dislike Frye will give Anderson a pass when (yeah, I said when, not if <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) he lays an egg tonight against the Steelers because he is inexperienced. Not pointing the finger at anyone, but rather just making an observation.

Many backups can do well when coming right off the bench, but often look horrible during their next start.

When it comes to Anderson, I think the final score will be less important than examining his decisions. I've knocked him badly since he came to the team because when it was crunch time in college, he failed early and often. I don't believe that I saw anything in the win that tells me he gets it right now, and frankly, I'm not the least bit interested in waiting to find out if he developes. Having said that, here's to hoping that he proves me wrong, makes good reads, shows good poise in the pocket, makes good throws, and beats the Steelers. [/color]