DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Compensatory Picks

Get over it. We SUCK and you know it.

I literally just said we know. But thanks for letting me know that we know because I wasn't sure if we knew until you told me that we knew even though I made it very clear that we know in reference to your posting how we know on every topic.

Hmmmm....ya lost me halfway through the sentence!

Tracking so far...

Outgoing Browns' Free Agents:
Jordan Cameron: 2 years, $7.5 APY (2016 4th round comp)
Buster Skrine: 4 years $6.25 APY (2016 4th round comp)
Jabaal Sheard: 2 years $5.5 APY (2016 5th round comp)
Brian Hoyer: 2 years $5.25 APY (2016 5th round comp)

Still have Rubin out there.

Signed Free Agents from other teams
Tramon Williams: 3 years $7 APY (cancels Cameron's 4th round pick)
Randy Starks (release by Miami, no impact)
Josh McCown (release by Tampa, no impact)
Brian Hartline (released by Miami, no impact)
Thaddeus Lewis (released by Houston, no impact)

how do we figure that cancels a 4th?

contract annual value matched most-closely on each side of the ledger.

Let's just hope someone overpays Rubin at this point.

We really don't know what the compensatory pick formula is, but I have read that contracts for older player do not count into the equation. (for or against a team, if they are below a certain level)

However, it's all guesswork, because the NFL has never said how they calculate the picks.

I believe they have to be one year, veteran minimum deals.

That could be ..... but the NFL doesn't let us know for sure.

We all guess, and some people are remarkably close, but the NFL guards the secrets of the compensatory picks better than the US guards its nuclear secrets.

I have to read up on this a little more but I'm pretty sure that how the players became free agents factors into whether or not the contracts are taken into account in the compensatory pick formula. A player who reaches free agency via his contract expiring (i.e. unrestricted free agent) does factor in but a player who was cut by his previous team like Josh McCown does not.

That might seem odd but rules don't always make sense.

That's why clevesteve has said "no impact" when talking about players we sign that were cut.

haha wow, I'm not sure how I missed that. Reading is hard.

Tracking so far...

Outgoing Browns' Free Agents:
Jordan Cameron: 2 years, $7.5 APY (2016 4th round comp)
Buster Skrine: 4 years $6.25 APY (2016 4th round comp)
Jabaal Sheard: 2 years $5.5 APY (2016 5th round comp)
Brian Hoyer: 2 years $5.25 APY (2016 5th round comp)
Athyba Rubin: 1 year $2.5 - $3 APY (2016 6th round comp)

Signed Free Agents from other teams
Tramon Williams: 3 years $7 APY (cancels Cameron's 4th round pick)
Randy Starks (release by Miami, no impact)
Josh McCown (release by Tampa, no impact)
Brian Hartline (released by Miami, no impact)
Thaddeus Lewis (released by Houston, no impact)

Summary:

As of now, the Browns would have 4 total compensatory draft picks, including 1 4th, 2 5ths, and a 6th.

Outgoing Browns' Free Agents:
Jordan Cameron: 2 years, $7.5 APY (2016 4th round comp)
Buster Skrine: 4 years $6.25 APY (2016 4th round comp)
Jabaal Sheard: 2 years $5.5 APY (2016 5th round comp)
Brian Hoyer: 2 years $5.25 APY (2016 5th round comp)
Athyba Rubin: 1 year $2.6 APY (2016 6th round comp)
Miles Austin: 1 year $2.3 APY (2016 7th round comp -- not awarded due to 4 pick max)

Signed Free Agents from other teams
Tramon Williams: 3 years $7 APY (cancels Cameron's 4th round pick)
Randy Starks (release by Miami, no impact)
Josh McCown (release by Tampa, no impact)
Brian Hartline (released by Miami, no impact)
Thaddeus Lewis (released by Houston, no impact)

Summary:

As of now, the Browns would have 4 total compensatory draft picks, including 1 4th, 2 5ths, and a 6th. We can sign one more player to a contract annual average of up to $2.4 million without any impact to our comp haul for next year. If we sign a player averaging $2.5 to $3.9 million per year, our 6th would become a 7th.

Assuming those projections are correct, I would have preferred a 4th round pick over the signing of Tramon Williams.

Keep in mind, it's not a late 4th for Williams, it's a late 4th for Williams plus a late 6th.

I agree, to an extent, though. If we were going to lop off our top comp pick, why not do one big signing of a premeire FA at the start.

And if we sign a FA (one that isn't cut) like that after June 1, it's doesn't effect compensatory picks. I think that article is floating around here referencing that.

Only snag is we would be without a Veteran CB..

No doubt I agree ... however were there any "cut" CBs of value that wouldn't have cost us a compensatory pick? or could we have waited until after June 1st to find a CB comparable to Williams?

I get the comp-pick strategy. I think it can make sense from time-to-time. But I hope its not a long-term plan to lose all of our free agents and eat 2nds at the free agent buffet.

Its not really building through the draft if we deal with the growing pains and lose the players. Its rebuilding through the draft.

And, to me, a 4th round comp pick is a 5th round pick. 7th round comp? 8th rounder. Splitting hairs there, I know.

No doubt I agree with you Don ... putting all of our hope into 4th/5th/6th rounders is pretty futile

I guess my point is this, which would be more valuable to us:

Tramon Williams

OR

a vet CB who gets cut plus a 4th rounder

I've looked at all the rosters. Thre are no veterans who might get cut that are any good with the possible exception of Deangelo Hall. And I'm not sure Hall is better than Williams at this point. 4th rounders are at best a 50/50 proposition IMO.

Hall has been washed up for years AND is coming off a torn Achilles. Williams is a much better option.

Okay cool

I think each year presents it's own dynamic. This year it worked out we could sign cut players who were probably about as good as most of the FA players. Once we filled out needs and had a chance to attain comp picks, then sure, it makes sense to not just toss them away, but I don't know if you can do that every year.

If you can great, but I wouldn't make it the cornerstone of how I looked at free agency. What I am saying is I wouldn't simply allow some of my decent players sign elsewhere and not sign anybody simply to get a 4th or 5th round pick.

I think what happens is after you've developed good players it becomes known and then when FA starts those players will get good offers from other teams.

Of course, you can't get into a bidding war over each one of them so you lose some. It happens to the Rats and NE all the time. They develop good players who become valuable to other teams in FA. Hense, their abundance of compensatory picks each year.

Also, as you say, each year presents it's own dynamic.

I think the way to keep your good players away from FA is to sign them to extensions before FA gets here (ala Joe Haden). For those of whom you're not sure you want to do that you let them test the market. Of course you'll lose some.

Everybody loses good players. Everybody. That's how we and other teams get some good FA signings.

Outgoing Browns' Free Agents:
Jordan Cameron: 2 years, $7.5 APY (2016 4th round comp)
Buster Skrine: 4 years $6.25 APY (2016 4th round comp)
Jabaal Sheard: 2 years $5.5 APY (2016 5th round comp)
Brian Hoyer: 2 years $5.25 APY (2016 5th round comp)
Athyba Rubin: 1 year $2.6 APY (2016 6th round comp)
Miles Austin: 1 year $2.3 APY (2016 7th round comp -- not awarded due to 4 pick max)

Signed Free Agents from other teams
Tramon Williams: 3 years $7 APY (cancels Cameron's 4th round pick)
Rob Housler: 1 year $1.76 APY (cancels Miles Austin's potential 7th rounder)
Dwayne Bowe (released by Kansas City, no impact)
Randy Starks (released by Miami, no impact)
Josh McCown (released by Tampa, no impact)
Brian Hartline (released by Miami, no impact)
Thaddeus Lewis (released by Houston, no impact)

Summary:

As of now, the Browns would have 4 total compensatory draft picks, including 1 4th, 2 5ths, and 1 6th.

Thanks for the update on that.

I have to wonder if 2016 comp picks will be part of our 2015 draft strategy. We can't trade the comp picks, but the FO might see them as "replacements" giving us some leverage to trade our regular 2016 picks to move up this year without decimating our next draft.

That's a pretty good angle worth considering.

yeah I think they definitely appreciate the flexibility trade-wise they provide... not necessarily in this year's draft but next yer's draft if there's someone at a key position they want to move up for. You can send your 4, 5, 6, and 7 to someone and still have a full seven picks.

According to Nathan Zegura of Cleveland Browns Daily, the period of time where signings affect compensatory picks has expired. The Brown's should have an extra 4th, two 5ths, and a 6th next year.

That is, assuming the NFL doesnt decide to scrap the comp picks next year, lol.

This could still change a lot depending on playing time and snap counts and nobody knows the exact formula that the NFL uses, so take it with a grain of salt.

Buster Skrine $6.25 mil = 5th rounder
Jabal Sheard $5.5 mil = 5th rounder
Brian Hoyer $5.25 mil = 5th rounder

Miles Austin $2.3 mil = 7th rounder

The 4th round pick for Jordan Cameron $7.5 mil got cancelled by signing Tramon Williams $7.0 mil.

The 7th round pick for Ahtyba Rubin $2.6 mil got cancelled for signing Rob Housler $1.75 mil.

For the most part an NFL team is not normally awarded more than 4 compensatory picks.

so the McCown pickup doesn't necessarily cancel out the Hoyer loss? Is that because Hoyer was a FA and McCown was just cut

Yes.

Deputy, just curious where the values are coming from. Based off this past year I had something almost the same but not quite.

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/958367/compensatory-picks#Post945569

I have the 3rd round cutoff at about $9 mil. Which would be Suh, Revis, Byron Maxwell, and Julius Thomas.

4th round cutoff at $7 mil. , Chris Culliver, Pernell McPhee, Orlando Franklin, Torrey Smith, Tramon Williams.

5th round cutoff at $4.75 mil. Last guy in that group would be James Carpenter at $4,775,000

6th round cutoff at $3 mil. Last guy in that group would be Akeem Ayers.

I have Miles Austin as the 2nd to last 7th rounder. They usually only give out 32 comp picks and he is #31. O'Brien Schofield $1.7 mil for Sea was #32.

If you are right and Rubin was a 6th rounder then Housler would definately cancel out Austin instead of Rubin.

I like your math better than I like mine.

I was just going off of a slight uptick from the previous year's awards, but if there's a distribution with groupings like you mentioned yours would probably be right... which would be a bummer.

yeah, overthecap agrees with you... and it definitely looks like Buster would be the second guy into 5th round territory.

http://overthecap.com/2016-compensatory-draft-picks-update-952015/#more-10550