DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Hire John DeFilippo as OC

Mourg.........I am not asking anyone to agree w/me. If you guys are happy.........that's fine w/me.

And it's not so much about being mad about Shanny not being here. Instead, it's more about what it says about our ownership/FO/QB situation than anything else. There has to be very valid reasons why the guy wanted out of here. He is just one of the lucky ones because he is good enough to know he would get another job.

I just think that if there is that much dysfunction in our FO...........it's going to be quite a few more years of the same old thing. Losing and changes.

You're not chaffing me, my skin is thick,HAHA. I didn't take anything you said in a bad way, it is all just discussion.

I understand your feelings, I've been a fan since 1966, so I feel your pain.

I don't like that Shanny wanted out, or had reasons to want out. But to me, there are just some things you an't control. He's gone, and we have to start over again on the offensive side of the ball and that sucks for all involved.

But, I do see what Pettine is trying to do. And trying to right the ship with someone he feels will be around for a while and on the same page is encouraging to me.

As for Shanny, the only thing I don't like about the situation, is appears his move was a self centered. Maybe it wasn't, but to me it appears that way. From my point of view, he had his own thing in mind, and didn't want to play ball with everyone else. IMO, there is nobody right or wrong in the situation.

I just hope that the appearance of meddling from the FO doesn't rear it's head again.

Did he resign to go elsewhere? Maybe he simply resigned. Was the job he has now set in stone before he left? I don't think so. He certainly didn't leave for a HC job which is exactly what people feared would happen when he was hired. That's one thing I find funny about some of this. MANY feared he would be a HC candidate and be leaving for a HC position, but that's not what happened at all. Now all of a sudden the story people are spitting out has changed. Now the story is that he left for a lateral move and that has nothing to do with why people thought he would leave.

The people espousing this change of heart scenario really need to be asking themselves why Shanahan left for a lateral move. The total seeming lack of concern for what transpired to cause this chain of events I find amusing at best. The ability to reach some foregone conclusion and pretend everything else is rosy and Shanahan is simply a bad apple I find to be overly simplistic and reaching for a way to find an excuse to believe all is well in fairyland.

Not to be concerned as to what transpired and put all the blame on Shanahan is simply finding a scapegoat without asking themselves about the big picture. Seeing this coaching staff go into "My Buddies Mode" in order to function without any backlash paints an entirely different story on the surface.

I don't have any outrage that he left. I also don't have any outrage that Teddy Bridgewater himself saw a division amongst the coaching staff and FO at draft time. I'm simply amazed that others can't connect the dots and have concern that the problems run much deeper than Shanahan.

Shanahan is a good OC. I disagreed with a few of the things he did (Forcing the Read Option, something hes done before)

He didnt want to be here. Probably because looking at the QB situation, it didnt look that great..

The point is, he didnt want to be here. So while we may have possibly downgraded to coach's with less experience, to say having coaches that want to be here is bad is silly..

Hope everybody is growing new skills and going new directions. Tend to your own garden, but help others. Little of whatever you learn in football is often wasted. Shapes your take on The Game as a whole IMO. A good part is knowing your opponents' minds.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I simply believe that the circumstances that brought about a situation where Shanahan did not want to be here may be the bigger question that needs to be answered. I believe feeling the need to hire people with less experience that are all tied together in the past may not be the best path to follow. And why did they feel this was the most important prerequisite?

I just believe that what we don't know may be far more important than what we do know and that simply saying "Well, he didn't want to be here", is far too easy to say without looking and questioning the big picture.

Loved the red quotes! And it has been proven as well. I like the Patses today, to find a way.

I think some of the tact being taken about Shanny leaving is being blown out of proportion a bit. It's the day after the Super Bowl, let's look at what we've lost so far:

OC
QB coach
WR coach
Offensive 'quality control'???

FOUR positions... four. And we've filled them all.

If the environment is as toxic as Vers has been alleging, I would have expected to see a much higher turnover by this point (such a thing could still happen, but it doesn't appear like something on the horizon).

Granted, the combined NFL experience between the replacements isn't much. So I think it is a valid concern as to their ability to create something appropriate for an NFL level team.

But I'm not sure I get all this "Pettine is only hiring these guys because they are his 'friends'" nonsense going around. First, I don't recall anyone ever complaining when we do manage to hire an experienced coach (like Shanny or Turner) that they brought their "friends" with them. It's expected that they will, but for some reason in this case Pettine is supposed to hire 4 guys who have ZERO connection??

Second, can anyone point to ANYTHING about Pettine, the culture he's trying to instill, his personality, etc that supports this notion that hiring his friends is more important to him than being successful at his job? Because I'm not seeing it and I'd hate to think I'm missing out!

You do bring up a good question as to WHY Shanny wanted out. But maybe we need to take it further back and figure out the method and philosophy Pettine is using in order to build the team. Any other Dawgs out there who are business savvy or have done any leadership studies may be familiar with a book called "From Good to Great". It s a decades long study of what made certain businesses successful over long periods of time when comparable businesses in comparable circumstances failed. The successful businesses all did the following:

1st- come up with a unifying concept for the organization
2nd- bring in people talented enough to see it to fruition
3rd- it wasn't enough to just have a talented person. That person had to be in the right position, and be willing to put the unifying concept above themselves.

And its not like this is a foreign concept. When putting 11 men on the field its all about putting out the best guy at that position. We don't take an all pro-safety and put him at nose guard even though he's a top talent. Sometimes the best guy doesn't come from where you expect them to like our UDFA's.

So why can't, or rather, why shouldn't the coaching staff be put together the same way?

You are right Devil..

This whole thing about Shanny wanting out is nonsense. Same with the FO being toxic.

Who's to say that Shanny is right? Did not his offense fall apart at the end? Maybe Pettine said, Hey, I'm going to be more involved and that may be why Shanny wanted out. Who knows. As Head Coach, the buck stops with him.

When was the last time an executive in a major corporation said, I'm not happy and I want out and the Board of Directors said, No No,, Please stay. We'll change everything to suit you?



Maybe (MAYBE) Shanny is a cry baby.

I don't know why it has to be one way or the other. If I remember right, When Shanny hired on, Most thought that he was here for 1 maybe 2 yrs. Why did we think that? For me, it wasn't because I thought he would be offered a HC job else where. It was because he left once and then returned when he couldn't find anything else. I don't think he ever wanted to be here, at least not how we saw him as an OC. I think he wanted control over who was at QB, RB WR, and balked at all suggestions that came from Pet or any other coach. But I think the important thing is why would we want to keep someone who did not want to follow the path? Talk about disfunction.

Just as some are suggesting that there is trouble in the FO and he wanted out, it actually could be that he just wanted to go elsewhere, and it had nothing to do with the FO. I've seen no proof either way, just innuendo.

He's gone and that is that. No one else is claiming the FO is in turmoil, just those upset with him leaving. It just seems that since it is the Browns, there has to be dysfunction in some people's minds.

LaBeau just left Pittsburgh, and made it a point to say he was not retiring, but I don't see the media or fans claiming dysfunction there.

I don't understand why everything this team does has to have a conspiracy attached to it.

I agree. I just think many want to create a scenario of a dysfunctional FO for personal reasons.

Gee, that is hilarious.

Keep laughing at me guys. Keep saying my point of view is whacked.

You have done it numerous times over the years and you guys always end up being right and my point of view is always wrong.

Gee, you think I would learn my lesson and keep my big freaking mouth shut after being schooled so many times as I have by you guys.

Think about it:

You guys were so right about Josh Gordon and I was so wrong.

Weeden? You guys all said he sucked and I defended him. You owned me.

TRich? Gosh, I loved the guy's 3.3. yds per carry, instincts, and decisiveness. You guys tried telling me that he lacked all of those things. I was such a fool.

Big Baby? God, I loved the guy. You all told me he was lazy and out of shape. I wouldn't listen.

Leon? I made fun of you guys for coming up w/that nickname. I thought he was a hard-working stud. You guys said he didn't run good routes, didn't work hard enough, and was soft. You drilled me again.

Big Money: I said he was a stud. You guys repeatedly pointed out how he chose gaps and was often steered clear out of the play. If only I had your vision.

John Collins: I remember trashing you all for calling him Damien........and I really supported him for being a great guy.

Oh, and how can we forget Savage? Remember how I said he was a genius and you guys said to wait and see. Heck, you actually evaluated some of his picks, but I just made fun of you for doing so.

That reminds me of The Big Show? Remember me defending him over and over and over and over. You guys correctly pointed out that a good team president should not be spending his time in Arizona, California, and Washington during the season. I belittled you. Once again, you were right.

Pat Shurmur? I loved that dude. I said he was he was an excellent hire and extremely qualified. You guys said it was hired because of sharing The Big Show's agent. Once again, you were right and I was wrong.

There are so many more examples of how I made fun of you guys for having an opinion on football matters and I was so dead wrong and you were all over it.

The really crazy thing is that despite how many times you have been right and I have been dead wrong, I continue to mock your new opinions each and every time that they don't fit into my agenda.

Gosh, if only I had your high character traits. I might actually be somebody.

You sure have been wrong a lot.

I know, right.

And you would think that even though I might disagree w/the majorities opinion, I would at least respect their opinion and not belittle them and laugh at them for having a different opinion, considering how history has played out.

To be fair most people hated Weeden and Shurmur.

Are you sure?

I was on the other board when that draft went down and when Shurmur was hired.

It got ugly for me over there.

Now, when I got here.........everyone hated Shurmur, but he was already gone. Are you sure they hated the hire?

Weeden? Nah man........I remember the long drawn out arguments about him when I got here. I kept saying that reading coverages is the one thing that can't be taught and that is the one thing he couldn't do. I caught a lot of grief.

Look, I know we argue a lot, but seriously.......you really don't remember that?

I remember a lot, a lot, of people hating the Shurmur hire. I also remember a lot, a lot, of people hating Weeden.

Often times the most staunch supporters are also the most vocal. Maybe you are remembering long drawn out arguments with only a few different posters.

I was definitely not one supporting Weeden or Shurmur.

If the shoe fits, wear it.

J/C ....

And another thread crashes in an internet roadside ditch ......

Take it for what its worth, but I'm just not seeing the 'toxic, dysfunctional' FO you keep claiming. I'm sorry, but losing 1 coordinator, 2 position coaches and 1 misc coach and replacing them within a month doesn't scream either.

Now I will say that I think you have something in terms of Shanny and Pet being forced to start Manziel. All the pressers and statements from Pet et al prior to his start were the exact OPPOSITE of what he had been doing all season. Everything to that point had been about the team, next an up, etc... that week it was nothing but "Johhny Football"..."What will Johhny do?".. not what the TEAM was going to do. By Sunday it wasn't the Browns vs. Bengals.. it was Johhny Football vs. the Bengals.

On top of that it was obvious the coaches knew Manziel wasn't prepared. The team knew it as well.

I know the conventional wisdom is that Manziel was brought in and was looked at as a legit prospect to be our franchise QB. I'm still not so sure. I think there was a possibility he was drafted for his celebrity and Haslam wanted to take advantage of that. The Browns certainly benefited greatly from the marketing perspective. If Johnny turns into something.. great. If not, he's just another Heisman winner who flopped. As fans we look at it as a possibly wasted 1st Rd pick. I'd argue that from a business perspective it wasn't.


But enough about Manziel. Look, the danger with signing guys like Shanny in the first place is that he's young. He wants a shot at being a HC. No matter how good they are, we aren't really doing ourselves any favors in the long run by bringing in guys at such key positions who are more likely to leave after one season if it was successful.

I know the replacements don't have a lot of NFL experience between them, but I'm actually comfortable with how it has shaken out and here's why: Pettine doesn't strike me as stupid. He has a vision for the team and so far IMO has been the most successful at changing the actual culture of the team than the previous few HC's combined. The basis in his philosophy is that no one individual is bigger than the team. There is no room for over inflated egos. I'm not saying this was Shanny's problem, but from top to bottom everyone has to buy in to the unified concept. A guy who's looking at potential HC positions after one season isn't going to be someone who is going to buy in 100%. It's just not possible. Doesn't make him a bad guy. It just doesn't make him the right fit.

LMAO...that is an intelligent comment. Not sure what it has to do w/anything, but then again, it's you who made it.

Alright, we disagree on this. No big deal. We both spoke our mind and can now move on.

Take care.

Hell even I was screaming it, and I don't scream very often in pure football.

Walking out on a team with years left on your contract after only being there one year NEVER looks good on your resume'.

That's why I simply don't buy into such simplistic reasoning as to why he left. There has to be more to it.

I'm not going to try to cobble together some story be stringing together different things I heard in articles to try to paint a picture because I have no idea what happened. But I will say that any OC who feels this FO will give them the tools to turn the team around would want to stay here.

I mean if you wish to talk about helping your resume', nothing could help it more than that.

j/c

For those giving Pettine/Farmer a hard time hiring inexperience coaches, I thought this was interesting. Jeff Fisher, Rams HC, promoted Cignetti to OC with no prior experience on any level at OC. Jeff is also looking to hire Jeff Garcia as QB coach. Jeff coached QBs for the CFL's Montreal Alouettes last year. Otherwise, Garcia has not been in the NFL since 2011.

those are great moves, particularly when they had so many candidates beating down their door to get those jobs.

Jeff Garcia the QB coach, huh? Yeah, I actually think that's a decent role for him.

I agree. I was nearly pointing out other HCs hire unknown and not labeled toxic or dysfunctional. Schottenheimer leaves. Rams forced to hire Cignetti. Easily you can make similar arguments. Brian Schottenheimer and Kyle Shanahan have both been on sub-par teams with similar win percentages.

I consider Rams and Browns about even in rebuilding. Both teams can accelerate having consistency at QB. You see a lot of similarities between the two establish a run game build a tough defense. Funny Fisher/Snead have a similar philosophy on receivers too.

Fisher/Snead are starting their fourth season in St. Louis. They don't get a quarter of the grief Pettin/Farmer get after one year. In their first three years Rams finished right around .500. Personally I'm a little surprised fans/media haven't applied much pressure on the organization to do better. Team hasn't done all that well even with the myriad of draft picks received from Washington. It could be fans don't care anymore with the threat of team moving too.

My point is even a seasoned head coach is doing similar as our young HC. Maybe fan expectations are a little high? Food for thought.

DeFilippo is on CBD today. Some highlights:

We'll primarily be using gap scheme runs (https://xandolabs.com/conceptblockingsystem/member/blockgap.html)
We'll see more between the tackles than outside runs compared to last year.
A big part of the offense will be incorporating RBs in the passing game, including splitting WRs out wide.
WR: need diversity. Wants people quick in/out of their breaks. Need someone big in the red zone.
TE: Y TE (block 7 tech on power, reach 9 on zone) -- Barnidge / Dray fit
F TE choice routes on 3rd down. Run away from LB (slot)
Our WRs play bigger than they are. good toughness. Also wants this player to play as a FB. Not a priority to get an "old school" fullback.

QB: take out gray area for young QB (If single high safety, go here, etc.) so they can play at a fast tempo
Same playbook for Josh/Johnny.

What a crazy idea...

Revolutionary!

yea. just got to get johnny to learn a play book. any play book. lmao

That's the secret. If there is no playbook, he doesn't need to know it!

Breaking News:

Browns to replace sod field with sand, to make it easier for QB Johnny Manziel to call plays.. Also will name Joe Thomas official holder of the stick.

Browns OC wants Manziel 'obsessed' with football

By Conor Orr
Around The NFL Writer
Published: March 3, 2015 at 02:39 p.m.
Updated: March 3, 2015 at 03:04 p.m.

John DeFilippo will not have a different playbook for Johnny Manziel. Everyone needs to learn his offense.
But the beauty of his scheme, and possibly the reason Oakland rookie Derek Carr was able to succeed in 2014, is its simplicity. That's what the new Browns offensive coordinator is touting heading into his first season calling plays.

"Your main job as a quarterbacks coach in the NFL is to take all the gray area out," DeFilippo said on WKNR 850-AM Tuesday. "What does that mean? Well, you don't give him a lot of 'well if this happens you do this, or if this happens it's this, this, and this.' No. It's: Single safety middle? You're going here. It's pure progression, a middle-third read working high to low. You take out all that gray area."

DeFilippo is being looked at as a last-chance savior for last year's first-round pick. In two starts last year Manziel barely completed half of his passes and did not throw a touchdown.

More concerning, of course, is what happened with Manziel off the field. He is currently receiving treatment for his issues.

But DeFilippo has a solution for that as well, or at least he hinted at one on Tuesday.

During his first group meeting with all Cleveland's quarterback options, he's going to talk about what he expects emotionally from his signal-caller.

"It's truly a lifestyle to be an NFL quarterback," he said. "It's not just a job. It's all-consuming. You need to sleep, eat, do everything fast and just think about football all the time. The great ones have an obsession with it. You watch the Peyton Manning's ... those guys are obsessed with football. And you talk about quarterback lifestyle, in our first meeting, that's what we're going to talk about with those guys."

He added: "I think Johnny just needs experience playing the game at this level. I really do. Coming out of Texas A&M, I interviewed Johnny, I talked football with him. I know from a protection standpoint, from a route-structure standpoint, they were very limited at Texas A&M. Does that mean what they did was bad? Not whatsoever. But it's very different than what a quarterback is asked to do at the NFL level."

There's a lot to unpack here. Listening to DeFilippo talk about Manziel's collegiate offense on top of a much-needed lifestyle change outlines the major tasks ahead. In that same regard, though, we've never heard as calm and detailed an assessment of the problem by one of Manziel's coaches.

With all this work ahead, DeFilippo is at least sounding like the right man for the job.

Link

At least he gets that. Sounds like if they're not drafting someone who fits this mold, it could be time for the 6'2" Brian Hartline.

All I know is Hartline rarely gets to the endzone lol

That actually sounds stupid to me. They do not have the same skill sets. Why run the same plays for both?