DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny Manziel..continued..

Thats not the same McCown that we drafted yrs. ago is it?

I'm glad that Pettine & Farmer are 110% aware that our QB situation stinks. I'm real curious to see who we bring in via free agency or a trade. Their are a few free agents I wouldn't mind bringing in (Sanchez, Locker or Mallet) but honestly I'm really hoping we can work out a deal for either Bradford or Foles. We have $52 million in cap space to sign some help, we can afford to trade a couple draft picks in my own personal opinion. I would gladly send a 2nd & both 4th round picks to the Eagles for Nick Foles, and I would gladly send the Rams a 4th & 5th round pick in exchange for Sam Bradford. If we can get Mike Glennon from Tampa Bay for a 4th round draft pick, I say that would be a win for us as well.

As far as Johnny Manziel goes, I wish him luck, but I'm completely off of his bandwagon. I was real excited last year when we drafted him because I felt like this team really needed that moxy and attitude that he would bring, but his lack of preparation (self admitted) and all of his off the field issues have just completely turned me off. All the negative media attention is just getting really, REALLY old.

As far as the draft goes? Personally I like Bryce Petty would love to take him in the 2nd round if we cannot trade for either Bradford or Foles. Petty has size (6'3 225), is really mobile for said size, but he's a pure pocket passer with a very quick release, I think his upside could be really big.

Absolute best case scenario (while being realistic) is we trade a 4th round pick and 6th round pick to Tampa Bay for Mike Glennon. We draft Bryce Petty or Brett Hundley with our 2nd round pick, and we keep Manziel on the roster and let the three of them duke it out for the starting spot. Smartest thing in a scenario like this is to just name Glennon THE GUY and make the rookie/Manziel earn the backup job and bring them along slowly in the process.

I realize we spent the 22nd overall pick on Manziel and we need to give him time to grow and play, and while I don't disagree with that, I think every single snap he gets to take should be 110% earned. He put himself and our team in this situation by not taking his rookie season seriously...

He has to deal with reality.

Hoyer may very well wind up on a different team next year. That may happen for a variety of fairly good reasons. My gut feeling (ha ha) tells me he'll be back and we'll over pay for that. But since he hasn't signed on the dotted line he's as good as gone for right now.

Manziel? Who knows? These things take time. And it's not out of the question that he could relapse. That's a sad fact of dealing with substance abuse. I wish him nothing but the best but the situation is what it is. He'll basically be doing his rookie season all over again, but sober this time. I know first hand that the world looks entirely different when it's not viewed through the bottom of a bottle.

Connor Shaw? Nope.

So we need a QB. It would also be nice to have a couple of folks for said QB to throw to but that's another bucket of fish hooks to sort.

I wonder what that means.

Good reads. Will we need to sell the farm for Mariota? Maybe we are assembling a coaching "support group" to "fix" JM. But even if they are miracle workers, that is a salvage project that will take time and reps aplenty to get him play ably competitive.

Not Thiggy, please. Doesn't look like Hoyer & his camp are interested much, but it is a solution of sorts, best house in a bbad neighborhood. This could be a house of cards that falls badly if Winston doesn't go number one. Interested in seeing Mariota throw NFL routes at Combine.

I already feel worn out about our QBee situation.

I think that was Luke

luke mccown

This is Josh McCown. We had Luke McCown, who was the backup in New Orleans last year, and who has also created a long career for himeslef as a backup.

I think that Pettine will look at Manziel with the "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst" kind of mindset.

If we get greatness from Manziel, then wonderful. However, the team is not going to go into the season counting on him.

I think we all wish JJO well as a human being that recovers and heals from whatever is ailing him. As an NFL QB, I think we can mostly agree that he is a LONG way from being one. The Browns need to move away from him quickly as he is nothing but a negative media storm removing focus from the team and its on field priorities. Goodbye JJO and good luck.

In reality, that's about the only logical mindset to have in regards of JF. I'm not sure how else you could approach the JF situation.

I will say, the fact that JF hasn't been released yet could indicate there actually was a serious problem more so than a kid just being a kid and boozing it up with a few buds here and there. I'm open to the possibility of him coming into camp clean, determined, ready to put in the time with Flip and ready to compete. But again, in reality who isn't? We drafted him, we could only hope for the best but JF doesn't give much to hang that hope on.

I think it means what it says. Everybody knew JFF was a party boy. But now they have found it's an addiction problem, not just a kid hoping to prevent it from becoming a problem.

I wouldn't even trade that for a $13m one year loan.

Would you please offer some evidence to support such a bold claim?

What, do they have more experience?

Have they coached longer in their current roles than the previous guys?

Have they had more success?

Are they even more well known?

Tell me, other than your nonsensical bias, what in the world makes you think they are better coaches?

QB guru George Whitfield confident Johnny Manziel will 'beat this' and excel under new QB coach Kevin O'Connell

By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group
Follow on Twitter
on February 19, 2015 at 8:51 PM
INDIANAPOLIS -- Quarterback guru and Massillon native George Whitfield, who's worked with Johnny Manziel for years, is confident Manziel will overcome his problems and live up to his first-round status, especially with new quarterbacks coach Kevin O'Connell in the house.

"I knew he had challenges,'' Whitfield told Northeast Ohio Media Group at the NFL combine. "But like everything else when faced with a challenge, he overwhelms it, he comes through (it). That's always been my resounding answer to everything involving Johnny. He'll beat this. He'll find a way to get through this and get past it. I just believe that he can do anything and I can't wait for him to be back up on his feet, come back out rewired, with a new approach, and then get on back out there and do his thing.''

Whitfield, who's remained close with Manziel, is as confident as ever that he can succeed in the NFL.

"Yes, he's absolutely capable and that's what got him to this point, but as he learned this year, he's going to have to re-approach his way of thinking about the game and situations he puts himself,'' said Whitfield. "Capable? 100%. And that's not me saying he can swim across the English channel. I've never seen him swim. But I know him as a football player, and he can do this. Waves can take down any boat if it has holes in it or its not strong or its not fortified. The ocean can sink any boat. I know he's restructuring himself right now and he'll be back sailing soon.''

Whitfield said he's even more convinced that Manziel can live up to his first-round status and Johnny Football nickname now that O'Connell -- his friend and close associate in the QB tutoring business -- has been hired as Browns quarterbacks coach. O'Connell worked with Manziel in the months leading up to the draft last year and knows him well. He also believes in him and knows his strengths and shortcomings. O'Connell even accompanied Manziel on some pre-draft trips last year to make sure he stayed on the right path.

"When (they hired O'Connell) I thought that 'wow of all places' because Kevin could've gone and coached anywhere in the NFL and of all 32 teams, he goes to the guy that we both had last year,'' said Whitfield. "I think it's going to be good for Johnny. There's familiarity there. They already have a working relationship. It's also going to be great for the Browns, because Kevin understand Johnny's habits. He'll understand him better to kind of re-route him, what buttons need to be pushed, how to get him over the hump in some situations. That's good for the Browns. It's just a great move on coach Pettine's part to bring just a really sharp teacher in Kevin. Kevin is a teacher.''

Whitfield, who's tutored some of the top quarterbacks in the NFL such as Andrew Luck and Cam Newton, hired O'Connell last year to help him prepare Manziel for the NFL.

"It just made sense,'' said Whitfield of the former dual threat quarterback and third-round pick of the Patriots working with Manziel. "A lot of people have x's and o's information, and a lot of people know the game and understand it all, but there are very few who can take material this thick, cut it down so it transfers in smoothly to a young student, especially a young guy like Johnny.

"What he did in college was pretty far away from what they're asking him to do on Sundays. So Kevin's got an incredible demeanor. He's fiery now. He's going to push you, he's going to keep a high bar on you. But I was excited for him and at such a young age too. People don't really realize, but Kevin's not yet 30. So he'll be a head coach not too long from now.''

Whitfield believed O'Connell will not only be great for Manziel, but for any young quarterback the Browns acquire. They're researching the top prospects in the draft, including Marcus Mariota, who's spent the past month working with O'Connell.

"I think he'll be great for the Browns in general,'' said Whitfield. "Every quarterback in that quarterback room is going to be with a guy who spent time in the NFL, he's been around some of the best quarterbacks, best coaches, especially Tom Brady and what's he's done with the Patriots. (He's) a guy who just understands there's really only one way to play the position: high integrity, on the clock and off the clock and that's what Kevin's going to have, those built-in expectations.''

Of course, Whitfield knows that Manziel must first get his personal life in order before he can reach his full potential on the field.

"In order to do that, he's got to have a really, really supportive path,'' he said. "Just a nice, clear path, and he's been through I think more than any athlete I know in the last couple of years. And it's just one of those journeys and his book if he ever decides to write one is going to be just an incredible story but hopefully it goes up from here. I just think Johnny Manziel the man is always going to be more important than Johnny Manziel the quarterback or the all-star or anything else.''

He said he's pulling for Manziel because the two are so close.

"Some guys you work with and you have fun and you go on and they go on, and you keep in touch and some become like kid brothers,'' he said. "Cam Newton and Johnny, they became like kid brothers. The longer you're around each other, the less and less your conversations are about football or about mechanics. They can be as light as coach you've got to go see this movie, or Johnny call me later, we'll talk about it and I'll see if I can help you out, those sorts of things.

"The biggest thing, I want him to be happy and accomplished all the way until he's a grandfather, and when his grandkids come into the trophy room and they see the jerseys and everything, he can sit and smile and I can be there with him to verify all the stories. I want that for him.''

He said he wasn't instrumental in getting Manziel into rehab and "that this was his decision. I'm just so proud of him for it. That means now you're putting yourself first in this circumstance. It's really your future that's at stake.''


link

I am going to be open-minded about Manziel. He will have another opportunity to get things straight. We will see how serious he is when it comes to practice and being at the facility(First in. Last out)

Well, I don't find the comments out of the ordinary given the circumstances.

Your first round QB made a fool of himself off the field, on the field he looked unprepared and overwhelmed, and wound up in a rehabilitation clinic.

It is up to him to play back into the QB competition, and prove himself as a player.

I like DeFilippo. A lot. He did a marvelous job developing Carr in Oakland. He is said to be an extremely bright offensive mind, and he runs a base system similar to that which Shanahan ran. DeFilippo has also said that he will use the same play call verbiage when possible so that he is the one with the learning curve, not the players.

I don't know a whole lot about O'Connell, other than some respected guys say that he is extremely bright, and is a good teacher.

Have they proved themselves in the NFL, at their current positions? No. If they had, they probably wouldn't be available. Do they have positives? Yes.

O'Connell is supposed to be very good at teaching fundamentals. That is exactly what a young QB (or 2) needs. This is also an area where the Browns seemed to fail last year. We had an established QB coach, yet Hoyer's mechanics went to crap as the year progressed, and Manziel's mechanics were a disaster from the start. Is that all on him? Probably not. However, that is one of the primary duties of the QB coach .... to develop good traits and habits in his QBs. In that regard, our QB coach last year failed. He needed to be replaced, and he was.

I liked a lot of what Shanahan did last year. I think that he did a really nice job, especially designing plays in the passing game. We always seemed to have open receivers. That was an excellent aspect of the offense last year.

We started out being able to run the ball last year, and then we lost Mack and the run game came to a screeching halt. We appeared (at least that I recall) to continue to run the same run plays, plays that required the Center to get to the second level, even though we no longer had a Center who could do so. Losing a Center is a big loss for a team, but other teams figure out how to compensate. We seemed to not try all that much. We continued to run the same plays, expecting the same results, even though we had a far lesser player in the middle. That was never going to work. We have very mobile Guards, with quickness, and it seems to me that we could have used that aspect of their abilities to help the Center position more often. Shanahan gets the credit, and he also has to take the blame.

When Manziel was pushed into the starting lineup, we suddenly started to run a read option offense type offense. That is not an offense that Manziel has run. He ran a spread in college, and if we were trying to make him more comfortable despite not knowing the playbook, then we should have more spread. Instead we ran a read option. I think that was a huge mistake. Manziel did OK in his 1st game action, running the same offense Hoyer ran. We then changed things for Manziel. Did we have to change things for the receivers that they were also unsure of their plays? I don't know. Is it possible? I think it is, at least, possible.

Anyway, I look at how Shanahan handled RG3 in DC, and Manziel last year, and I wonder if he just does not have a good feel for a very mobile type QB. He is going to a team with Matt Ryan, a more stationary/pocket passer, and I think that he will do well with him.

I am hopeful that the new offensive coaching staff will be able to work with our young QB(s), and be able to develop NFL skills, and also design plays that play to their strengths.

You may, and probably do disagree, and that's your right. However, I do think that it is obvious that Shanahan was going in a different direction than the rest of the team, and hopefully having everyone pulling in the same direction cal only be a good thing.

I believe that I said it before, Manziel needs to be broken down, and relearn the position of QB. Put a 40 lb flack jacket on him and make him learn the position.

He does have good instincts and is quick in a small space, with good awareness. This is something that others (Frye, Quinn)lacked.

That said, you have to draft or obtain another QB. You can put the future of the team in his hands at this time.

Dream on buddy. Not happening.

I wish I shared the same type of optimism as he towards Manziel. Hopefully he is right, and I am wrong!

No, we drafted his younger brother Luke. I'm not sure he's even in the league anymore

Luke just re-signed with the Saints, IIRC.

Wow, out of curiosity I looked up his profile to see if he had any starts - and it looks like he's bounced around around:

http://www.nfl.com/player/lukemccown/2506053/profile

Sounds like he's good enough up continue to make teams roster, can't say that for Brady Checkdown Quinn for example lol...

It will be very, very interesting to see how Manziel fairs once he gets outta rehab.

Most importantly for him - and our team - is that he stays clean and sober.

If he really wants to try to make it in the NFL he is going to have to rethink his whole future and really put the time & effort into being a good NFL QB. Practice, practice, practice.

I know I've bashed him a lot, but if he can stay clean and practice his butt off I think he might turn out to be something we all can be proud of. (Maybe I should have used the word hope instead?)

We shall see.

P.S. It's probably best if ya'll don't listen to my possible optimism up ^there,^ as I always get a bit giddy during our off season!

Maybe we can get him on something like a work release program. Have a driver pick him up from Rehab take him to training camp. When the coach's say he's done for the day have the driver take him back to Rehab. Continue into the season if need be, and room with Pettine on away games.

Rehab isnt a life sentence lol he will be out in plenty of time for OTA and mini camp.

Just saying he stands a better chance of having a relapse this way.

I was curious if JFF can study his "new" playbook while being in rehad.....
There is a first time for everything.

Even clean and sober, he's undersized, undermotivated, understrengthed and altogether underwhelming. It'll take a miracle for him to be something for us to be proud of beyond maybe the fact that he's able to beat his demons.

Yes, but didn't you know that the only reason JM didn't the plays last year was because there were two playbooks and he will be so much better off this year because he only has to learn one????

Browns OC wants Manziel 'obsessed' with football

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...d-with-football

By Conor Orr
Around The NFL Writer
Published: March 3, 2015 at 02:39 p.m. Updated: March 3, 2015 at 03:41 p.m.

John DeFilippo will not have a different playbook for Johnny Manziel. Everyone needs to learn his offense.

But the beauty of his scheme, and possibly the reason Oakland rookie Derek Carr was able to succeed in 2014, is its simplicity. That's what the new Browns offensive coordinator is touting heading into his first season calling plays.

"Your main job as a quarterbacks coach in the NFL is to take all the gray area out," DeFilippo said Tuesday on WKNR-AM. "What does that mean? Well, you don't give him a lot of 'well if this happens you do this, or if this happens it's this, this, and this.' No. It's: Single safety middle? You're going here. It's pure progression, a middle-third read working high to low. You take out all that gray area."

DeFilippo is being looked at as a last-chance savior for last year's first-round pick. In two starts last year, Manziel barely completed half of his throws and did not throw a touchdown pass.

More concerning, of course, is what happened with Manziel off the field. He entered a treatment facility last month to work on his issues.

But DeFilippo has a solution for that as well, or at least he hinted at one on Tuesday.

During his first group meeting with all Cleveland's quarterback options, he's going to talk about what he expects emotionally from his signal-caller.

It's truly a lifestyle to be an NFL quarterback," he said. "It's not just a job. It's all-consuming. You need to sleep, eat, do everything fast and just think about football all the time. The great ones have an obsession with it. You watch the Peyton Manning's ... those guys are obsessed with football. And you talk about quarterback lifestyle, in our first meeting, that's what we're going to talk about with those guys."

He added: "I think Johnny just needs experience playing the game at this level. I really do. Coming out of Texas A&M, I interviewed Johnny, I talked football with him. I know from a protection standpoint, from a route-structure standpoint, they were very limited at Texas A&M. Does that mean what they did was bad? Not whatsoever. But it's very different than what a quarterback is asked to do at the NFL level."

There's a lot to unpack here. Listening to DeFilippo talk about Manziel's collegiate offense on top of a much-needed lifestyle change outlines the major tasks ahead. In that same regard, though, we've never heard as calm and detailed an assessment of the problem by one of Manziel's coaches.

With all this work ahead, DeFilippo is at least sounding like the right man for the job.



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