DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Pediatrician refuses to treat baby with lesbian parents and there’s nothing illegal about it

Hardly a conservative agenda when many conservatives and independents are non-believers and the sentiment doesn't even state Christians are bad, just that people prefer to not have to hear about religious beliefs so much, not that they shouldn't, but religion has been used to push legislation a lot these days.

Your disgust is sort of hypocritical when I've never seen a disagreement from you when others consider gays as pedophiles. That opinion is a direct and disgusting accusation where this quote is merely an analogy about having something pushed on those who would prefer to not have to deal with.

It also gives example to the over-used idiom from conservatives of having things, shoved down throats".

I know the Liberal Moral Code includes "Anything Goes" and "Everything is Acceptable" but this reference to Pedophilia is way over the top. Disgusting.

So is calling gays pedophiles disgusting also?

After-all, openly pushing the conservative religious agenda IS a choice.

My understanding is anyone can be a Pedophile. It is a sickness. Your saying that an entire group of people are pedophiles is Just plain wrong. My question is why are you preoccupied with it lately?

not worth

Actually the question is where was your concern when people actually called gays pedophiles? That doesn't in the least show preoccupation. We're discussing one post.

The, "After-all, openly pushing the conservative religious agenda IS a choice." may have been unnecessary, but the question still stands.

How can one group be openly called pedophiles without disagreement and an analogy generates such a strong reaction?

Yea, I get that.. but when your wifes best friend comes over for dinner and your wife knows that last week you were staring at her vagina, it could get awkward for everybody. Don't read too much into the specifics of the analogy, just stating that there may be times when doctors would prefer a patient saw a different doctor for a variety of reasons.


I have no doubt that you would feel that way.


Please explain to me:
1. How is she forcing her beliefs onto anybody.
2. How is it to anybodys detriment when she passed off the patient to an equally qualified doctor in her practice in the same building. Who exactly was harmed here?

I was being snarky. I was not accusing all gays as pedophiles I was accusing the person who talks about using the imagery of putting a penis into a childs mouth as a pedophile because its disgusting and sickening that they could even bear to think that way.

Talking about ALL religion as though it is a child being raped by a man IS a form of persecution. We are christians though and we are used to it. Christians have been persecuted for 1000's of years our skin is thick enough to suffer the lash. We know from our history that the more corrupt the government gets and the more the people surrender to the lusts of the flesh and become addicted to it that we will suffer more and more.

The thing is that the more the people surrender to lusts of the sin the more it will destroy itself. Sometimes it takes a people to hit rock bottom to wake up and change their ways the same as it is for a single person. I don't want to see my nation descend into a cesspool so I would rather raise the voice of the Bible and let it be heard that it may move men's hearts before they would have to suffer even more from their treacherous acts against their souls.

The Bible writes that the "wages of sin, is death." Perhaps it should have been written the weight of sin on the heart crushes you to death. Your lies, fornication, gluttony, thievery, drunkenness, and worse will come to bear when you look into the eyes of the a child who loves you and they simply ask, "Why do you do that Daddy? Why do you do that Mommy?" The ones who love their children will look at their actions and change at seeing their sins laid bare. They will seek to shield those innocent eyes from what they know is wrong and improve themselves.

Don't believe me? Ask any drunk if he does not feel shame when their children look at them with worry, fear, or disgust. They will tell you that it hurts to their very core and that they know they are doing wrong.

Look at things through the eyes of a child's innocence. The more you have to make excuses for what you do in front of them the more you are leading yourself astray.

I refuse to accept any attempt from Christians to claim persecution.

Even that analogy didn't say Christian.

How would you have reacted if it directly referred to Islam?

If you think think gays and lesbians are putting this nation into a cesspool then I can only imagine where actual perversion has put this nation.

I am completely unaware of what the rest of your post wanted me to think.

Pretty much all of those behaviors are considered immoral and wrong especially among atheists.

Teh fact you don't think Christians are beginning to be persecuted again in this country just shows your ignorance. There are still plenty of Christians in this world dying simply because they believe in God.

For how long will atheists believe what is wrong is wrong? Just 60 years ago young men and women whoring themselves around would have been viewed atrocious. Women getting paid by the state to have children out of wedlock. Just 60 years ago homosexuality was recognized as despicable behavior as it had been viewed for ages.

What's amazing is that the destruction of our morals by atheist is considered PROGRESS. Now's whose agenda is that? If its not God's it must be something else. I wonder who that could be.

Freedom only works when people are educated and are guided by strong moral principles that protect the family unit. When people only use freedom to do base and disgusting things the society will fall apart. The sad thing is there is nothing that will stop it because Christians are too fat and cared for to get off thier buts and do something to stop it. It will keep getting worse and worse and more and more of immoral behavior gets presented through the media and the next generation sees it as ok more and more.

The lost are lost and I expect nothing from them. They can't help others except to become more lost. So, I charge Christians to get off your arse and do something about it. Get involved in your community and live the life God charged you to. Don't say the empty words that you are a Christian if you won't live life how God commanded you to. Be the light of the world so that the lost may see the light and find their way home. Don't be a whisperer talking quietly in the dark and watching nothing getting done.

There is hope for everyone in this world if those who know the difference between right and wrong work hard to see that which is right is rewarded and those who commit wrong are not.

yea....

better learn how to market that better. when you talk like you're going to burn the witch if they don't repent, nobody is gonna wanna join your religion like that.

this guy came at me and my family while we were having lunch together, talking about if we were saved, and i need to repent if i don;t want my kids to burn in hell.

somebody was about to burn alright, he almost had hot tea thrown into his face by my wife.

Often times I think one of the biggest problems Christianity has comes from the overly zealous Christians.

As a Christian - my job is not to judge. My job is to LIVE the life. And yes, the Bible says to spread the word - but "preaching down" to others about their sin/s isn't the way to do it. Let me put it this way: If someone is constantly finding fault with you - do you want to hang around with them? Or would you rather hang around with people that say "hey, I've been there (where ever "there" is) We're all on a journey, and this is how I got to where I am - and this is what I strive for.

Another analogy - albeit, a bad one: If you have dog,and you constantly beat it and yell at it - won't be long till it doesn't come home.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Spread the word - but do it in a helpful way. Better yet, LIVE the word, and if asked, tell. That doesn't mean shut up - it means something much different.

If attacked - be resolute, but not demeaning.

Rock I don't believe you have as much trouble with reading comprehension as your acting. Either add something other than one liners meant to antagonize and provoke or I'm done talking to you.

Well then I believe we're done, because the number of words written doesn't change the meaning at all and what you call one liners are valid responses to what you wrote. If your meaning is misunderstood then spend more words on clarify rather than redundant lectures.

Read your own words from someone else's perspective.

You accused atheist as uneducated and of leading the nation into a moral cesspool. You accused Christians of being fat and lazy while allowing the media to present more and more immorality. I agree about the media, but I believe we may disagree on the type of immorality that's dangerous in the media.

I believe there are Christians, Jews, Muslims and atheist alike whose value of the presentation of violence has lead us into the present culture of violence and, although there's been "progress" on this, it also glamorizes women as sex vessels. I'm pretty sure your main concern is probably the presentation of homosexuality as normal.

I agree the "Crusades" MAY have been over the top, but I'm also sure your sure that allowing rights to gays is a "slippery slope" to "Sodom and Gomorrah". Why wouldn't your words represent a slippery slope as well? You wrote them, I read them from a different point of view.

"There is hope for everyone in this world if those who know the difference between right and wrong work hard to see that which is right is rewarded and those who commit wrong are not." You wrote it. I read it as those who don't agree with your agenda and your understanding of right and wrong should not be allowed the same rewards as those who agree with your perspective.

PLEASE don't use the over-used lame accusation of weak reading comprehension when you don't enjoy someone explaining what you wrote from their point of view and if you insist on using that excuse and damning someone then yea..we're done and that's too bad because up til now I didn't realize just how unwilling you are to view from out side your definition of value and your misunderstanding that using a lot of words doesn't lesson the level of antagonizing provocation and doesn't actually need much more than "one-liners" to earn a response.

Arch, I read the article and did not find anything wrong with it. I am far from a zealous Christian. Those who make a moral or ethical judgement on the doctor should not blame others for making moral and ethical judgements. The story seemed to make judgements against allowing personal choices by physicians and others. He with out soon cast the first stone. Are you implying that not giving care to the child personally but allowing another doctor to do so is a sin?

My comment was not directed at, nor about, the article.

Please you complain I lecture then you accuse me of not explaining well enough. Am i supposed to spend my entire day writing novels to enlighten you?

Over and over again I explain my point of view and you twist it beyond my ability to believe you are doing anything but deliberately antagonizing.

I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me. I don't expect a secularist to ever do so.

The real problem is that you can't stomach a Christian standing up for their beliefs because it conflicts with your own beliefs that people are free to do as they please. Yet complete freedom is anarchy and not society.

The 10 commandments lead to a healthy society. It's obvious to anyone that not following them lead to individual and societal destruction.

You bring up Sodom and Gomorrah not me but since you have. On any given day you can see violence, rape, murder, swindlers, human trafficing, drug abusers, prostitution, severe gambling problems, raging alchoholics, unwed mothers being paid by the government to have more and more kids out of wedlock, divorce is often encouraged instead of being discouraged, women are treated as sex objects to be used and discarded and then told that is how they should act because they should be as much a slut as the men are, homosexuality is labeled natural when it is an unnatural act, children are no longer safe anywhere, people are even trying to get married to their animals as preferred sexual partners and encouraged to showcase it all on TV, in my email I am bombarded by ads for married women seeking to cheat on their husbands like its a normal and ok thing to do, and it goes on and on and on ...

So yeah, Sodom and Gomorrah is not really that far a stretch to were our country is headed. We know what happened to them now don't we. Forgive me if I try to prevent that from happening.

My main concern? Is for people who CLAIM to beChristians to follow the word of God and give up their lifestyle of sin.

What do I expect? That most will do nothing and just keep letting our country fall further and further into moral decay while other will further it along so they can live like animals instead of men because it is very easy to sin and very hard to live as a Christians. Hell you can get fired for saying, "Merry Christmas" instead of happy holidays because oh dear saying the word Christ will offend someone. It doesn't matter if Christians are offended they are just zealots if they complain. But hey Christians are not persecuted in this country right? I mean we would never expel a child for saying a prayer at school right? We would never make fun of a girl saving herself for marriage right? I mean the world surely ends if a girl is a virgin on her wedding night these days. A boy doing the same would be treated worse than a boy coming out of the closet because a sexual pervert is preferable than a boy who lives according to the Bible.

Compare the moral compass of a 20 year old today of one one from the 1950's since they removed prayer from school and you can see a very rapid decline in our countries moral standard and very sharp increase in Divorce and unwed mothers. It IS an attack on the family unit and on the security and welfare of our country. Only a fool would ignore the very obvious signs.

Anyway no need to respond. I don't feel like reading this thread for a few days. I feel like a man chasing windmills...

I think that we are heading in the direction of Sodom and Gomorrah, but we aren't there yet.

In Sodom and Gomorrah, in their last days, the population was universally wicked/evil. (except for Lot and his family) I do not believe that we are there in this culture. They habitually and repeatedly broke God's Law. They were guilty of the sin of iniquity, which is defined here as "The Hebrew word used most often for “iniquity” means “guilt worthy of punishment.” Iniquity is sin at its worst. Iniquity is premeditated, continuing, and escalating."

While a segment of our society can be said to fall under this definition, there are still God fearing people, who try their best to stay out of sin as best they can. They do not revel in sin, and do not sin in a way that is "premeditated, continuing, and escalating". I think that is the huge difference.

j/c

With how this thread turned into a Church service, rather than start another thread, I thought I would post how one Christian felt homosexuality should be dealt with and why some feel religion can be used as a weapon.....

Oklahoma Republican Believes Homosexuals Should Be Stoned To Death

On Tuesday, a website based in Oklahoma, MooreDaily.com, ran a story featuring Facebook conversations from a Republican candidate for the Oklahoma House of Representatives. Scott Esk, who is running in Oklahoma’s 91st District, made a number of posts last summer critical of homosexuality and stating that “we would be totally in the right” to execute gays by stoning them. He stated during the Facebook conversation that while he is a libertarian, and stoning gays to death is kind of against those principles, he feels that it would morally be the right thing to do by God, and that it is a shame that this nation ignores things that are worthy of death.

MooreDaily.com was able to catch up with Esk and ask him about his thoughts on stoning gays. He essentially said that he didn’t want to comment on private conversations and that he doesn’t plan on bringing up a law that would make homosexuality punishable by death. Which is good to know.

If you want to read the entire Facebook thread from last summer, you can check it out here.

What is truly interesting about that thread is that Esk was called out for both his contradictory statements and simply regurgitating scripture to make his points. When he was pressed to actually give his own thoughts, rather than cut and paste verses from the Bible, that is when he openly stated he had no problem with killing gays. Later down the thread, after getting pushback, he did what many anti-gay bigots who hide behind the Bible do — he brought up pedophilia. Essentially, he equated homosexuality and pedophilia and wanted to know what others felt should be a reasonable punishment for “victimful crimes” like pedophilia.


This whole thing comes on the heels of red states like Oklahoma and Kansas trying to find ways to lawfully discriminate against gays, or find ways to get around dealing with the inevitability of gay marriage. An Oklahoma representative proposed a bill that would make all marriages illegal if gay marriage was made legal in the state. Earlier this year, Kansas tried to pass one of the most discriminatory bills since the Jim Crow era, making it to where businesses would be able to lawfully discriminate against LGBT people if the business owners felt it interfered with their ‘religious freedom.’ Thankfully, the Kansas Senate nixed the bill, but only after much outcry from the business community, who knew it would be a deathknell economically for the state.

Finally, you have to love to self-described libertarian who seemingly has no problems with supporting laws based on his own personal religious views. It helps to show that many libertarians are really just self-centered a-holes that cherrypick laws they think should be enforced and then cry about government when it suits them. Laws based solely on moralistic grounds culled directly from the Old Testament? Sure, let’s get that bill written and passed! Pass sensible gun control laws or keep tax rates fair to keep public services operational? You are infringing on my liberty!

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/06/11/oklahoma-republican-believes-homosexuals-stoned-death.html

in before "He doesn't represent how the christian community feels"

sure seems like an awful lot of christians, and religious people in general, feel that way.

Of course it does, an interview with me on my views on homosexuality wouldn't make for a very interesting article.

Two things you won't see from the media.. one is a republican who has a tolerant view of homosexuals.. and the other is a democrat who doesn't.. and they both exist... and the reason is because it doesn't fit what the media wants to do.

I think I remember reading that in 2012, something like 13 democrats in the US Senate went from opposing gay marriage to endorsing it... is that because their views changed or because they realized that they are unelectable as democrats opposed to gay marriage? I would guess the latter.

That said, this guy is a dirtball and I hope he gets crushed in his election. If this is the best the republican party can come up with, they deserve to lose.

Years ago, way back when we were Official...I started a thread where I asked 'if you were elected DawgTalkers President, who is you cabinet, from VP on down?'

I said then that DC would be my VP...never wavered from that answer.

Apparently this person hasn't read the New Testament. :roll eyes:

Luke 9:55-56 Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy mens lives, but to save them.

These types make it very hard to get the message across...

Then again tolerating a behavior that will send them to hell isn't really saving their life but condemning it ... too many christians would rather be comfortable and living an easy life than doing what God commanded. Most churches are just glorified social clubs that don't do God's work at all anymore.

and some have demented and twisted views on a book full of love

Please remember, that book full of love also has a lot of Divine judgement going on also.

God is love, but God is also just and he will judge unrepentant sinners.

I can understand why it turned to religion.

If there's no legal way to support your prejudices then it would be best to take an imagined moral stance and claim that, "God says..."

Fortunately we're not a country governed by religion.

This country's original foundation and constitution was found on Judo-Christianity, but unfortunately we have allowed the heathen to gain power and change the founding Fathers writings ... so sad, but I know my redeemer lives and is in control even though it doesn't look like it through the natural eye ...

Our nation was founded on everyone having the right to their own religion and belief system without persecution by any other religion based on their beliefs. It's "freedom of religion", not "freedom of one Religion".

Your right we have the right to worship who and what we want in this country, did you know even the satanic church is under the church/state seperation, crazy, but that is the freedoms many patriots have given their lives for, I worship and believe in one God and His Name is Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.") and in this country I have the right of free speech no matter who likes it or who doesn't just like you ...

And not "freedom from religion".

Anyone can call their beliefs a religion. So while you may see that as a technicality, it does free one from all other religions that do not believe as they do.

J/C .....

Atheism is basically a religion. Instead of God being the supreme being, man is considered to be the top of the food chain.

I want freedom from that religion as well.

Pit makes a very important (and correct) distinction here. To say that this country was founded on exclusive Judeo-Christian values I feel is a bit of a stretch. The basic ideas of not committing murder, theft, etc are fairl common values that are not the sole copyright of one religion. Even non-religious people tend to believe these as well.

Isn't the (a) key tenet to be considered a Christian is the belief that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior?

Nowhere in the Constitution does it 1) recognize Jesus as such and 2) nowhere does it require any one else to recognize Jesus as such.

[quote]“"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers. And it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest, of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."
John Jay to Jedidiah Morse February 28, 1797/quote]

Strong words for the first Chief Justice of the United States.

[quote]I have lived, Sir, a long time and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings that "except the Lord build they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall be become a reproach and a bye word down to future age. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by Human Wisdom, and leave it to chance, war, and conquest.

I therefore beg leave to move -- that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the Clergy of this City be requested to officiate in that service./quote]

These are the last two paragraphs of Ben Franklin's speech to the continental congress, quoting the Bible and calling for prayer asking the God of the Bible for guidance in the writing of the constitution.

To say our nation was founded on one religion would be wrong. To say that our nation wasn't founded by christians would be wrong as well.

No, not even basically.

All atheists are not the same or even claim to have the same set of values or priorities. There's no congregation or denomination.

You can say it's a belief or disbelief, but not a religion.

Which is more important to you, to regress our government to over 200 years ago or to state this nation should be a theocracy?

How many "Christians" refuse to be bound by any denomination, or even the Bible itself, and basically just make it up as they go along?

Lack of organization alone is not a refutation of being a religion. There are atheist organization. How many does it take before they become a religion? Satanism is considered a religion, yet they have little to go on as far as "official texts", and denominational support. Atheistic Satanism is an official religion that says that each man is his own god ..... so how far a leap is it to make to get to Atheism itself?

Atheism is a religions as surely as any that recognizes "nature" as a god, or man as his own god, or any other religion. It all has a foundation on who or what is supreme in a person's life, and the atheist believes that they are supreme.

That is a religion, and should be treated as such, for good, and for ill. Atheists should not be able to have free rein on religious matters where a different religion has their hands tied. The playing field, except, obviously, for personal preference, should be even, instead of tilting the scales in favor of those who deny God.

Well then we disagree.

I can definitely see why Atheists want to stay away from being classified as a religion, because then they would have to follow the same rules, in the same way, as they force Christianity to do.

Since Atheism does not have religious centers, like churches and such, then they do not have the expense of other religions. Thus the tax free aspect is not really that important to them.

Dictionary.com defines religion as follows: Dictionary Link, which has a creator

noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:
the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices:
a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.:
to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6.
something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7.
religions, Archaic. religious rites:
painted priests performing religions deep into the night.

So, definitions 2, 3, and 6, (and to an extent, 1 and 6, if you accept the denial of a supreme being, or the idea that a supreme being is something other than God as fitting this definition) all fit with Atheism. As long as it fits even the definition of religion, even in the slightest, then it should be restricted as other religions are.

It is a religion, and should have the same rights, responsibilities, and restrictions, as any other religion.