DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum DWAYNE BOWE ANYONE?

No question about it. This isn't the first time a 1st rounder or two have failed or appeared to fail Nothing new really. Happens every year.

I don't think that you can actually blame a FO for a fail if they picked a guy that was considered by everyone to be a talented 1st rounder.

It happens. Unfortunately, it happens WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY to often to the Browns. Funny thing is, look back, it doesn't seem to matter who's in our FO or who the owner is LOL

I'm feeling a little SNAKE BIT

I think too many fans have an expectation that 1st round picks must be instantly good or they're a bust. Both the QB and CB positions are notable in that they have big jumps in difficulty between college and pro levels. While sometimes players can make a quick transition, more often than not, it takes a year or two for players at those positions to come into their own.

J/C:

Has anyone seen any contract details yet?

And Tab, that's why I believe the signing of Hartline and Bowe make it far less likely we draft a WR early. Like you said though, if they feel an elite on falls to them, I don't see it out of the question.

I believe they saw the need, as it seems you did as well, for those big targets. As such, they went out and got them. So as far as a need at WR, I believe they consider that "need" filled. As such I'm not screaming for a WR even though I believe at some point we'll need to draft a big bodied WR for a long term fix not provided in the FA market thus far.

Personally, and I know no one is asking, but I don't think either signing is any indication that WR is less likely. (1) I don't think either is a #1, and (2) long-term isn't indicated in their contracts.

It's been interesting to watch the FA approach, IMO......Going into it, DL and WR were widely considered the weakest links and areas to be addressed in the draft. What does Farmer do? He signs avg-to above avg. guys at those positions. I don't think he completely fills the need towards having longterm starters, but it does limit the anxiety to draft a player completely on need. I still think DL and WR are needs, however, if the top 3 WR are gone or, let's say, Shelton is a target and he has been drafted, there doesn't appear to be that much reliance on drafting those positions. Therefore, going moreso towards BPA.

I've gone on record saying BPA is an overrated term, but in the case of our FA endeavors, it seems to lean a bit more towards that. And being a team that is not drafting in the top ten, we do have the luxury of adhering to that cliche more than in prior years.

Also, regarding the WR signings-- I will assume they are easily 'cut-able' after next year. Hartline's contract is cheap across the board and, although the Bowe details aren't out yet, I'm sure there could be a 'prove it' angle to the $. My point- we probably are not committed to either in any significant way, and if a coveted WR falls, and we want him, he'll be taken.

I vision one of two things: a) draft a receiver; b) trade for a QB. No one expected Browns trade down, giving up Watkins, getting Gilbert last year. Least expected was Farmers play last year.

Getting Bowe and Heartline gives a rookie QB three veteran receivers. Farmer can draft a receiver with the same principal three veterans to mentor.

Not quite accurate, bugs. I (and I'm humbly patting myself on the back here), and one or two others perhaps, called this trade pre-draft. Did miss however, the move from #9 to #8. For fun, let's predict a trade for Mariota - possibly he won't slip past the Jets but watch out for the Bears to grab him. So if he doesn't go at #2, we will trade up withthe Raiders-Redskins-Jets. I base this on the fact that CB-WR-DLine have already been (partially) addressed in FA.

I'll take your word for it that's a year ago!!

I think Farmer goes after Mariota, if he can, at #2. I'm not sure why. I simply have a gut feeling.

Movie "Draft Day" keeps getting in my head. Farmer lands Mariota from Webster then swings a trade with Chip Kelly.

Possible, but I can't envision that happening. But it sure would involve a huge movement of picks/players. I actually enjoyed the movie, even my wife did (which I found simply amazing)...

That's the good thing about a message board. It's open for anyone to state their opinion without being asked to.



And maybe we are saying similar things, but I'll get to that a little later.



This is where I believe we are saying similar things. I believe the difference may be when people state "the top 3 WR's.". I'm not convinced that this FO or even some other FO's view all three of these WR's as top 12 to 15 talent. If you look at WR's around the league, there aren't very many "elite WR's". I find it hard to believe that NFL FO's see three such WR's in this draft. Maybe, but I find it highly unlikely.



I agree with this as well. Which is why I see the signings of Hartline and Bowe as giving them more ability to use "pure BPA" rather than one more skewed by pure need. I think a gaping hole helps set a teams BPA, which is why I find the signings of the WR's something that may drive one of the three top WR's off their board at #12.



And I agree with this also. Once again though, I'm not sure all three of the top rated WR's qualify as a "coveted WR at #12". That's why, conversely, their contracts are for more than one year unlike Miles Austin's. They have the luxury of passing on a WR unless the one they truly wants is there.

See, I'm not saying they won't draft a WR at #12. I'm simply saying that their big board is not nearly as dependent on drafting one as highly as it may have had it not been for the signing of Hartline and Bowe.

We agree that it does not preclude drafting a WR at #12. I think we also agree that the draft board is set according to need at least to some extent. And I believe any time you address a dire need, that it's reflective on your draft board.

So our opinions don't really seem that far apart to me.

Movie was pretty good. I hope they show again next month leading up to the draft!!!

I'm not sure what to think about Mariota. Looking at the FAs grabbed by the Browns set themselves up to do many different things. Farmer is lone GM who can make a serious trade. A team wishing to top would make another Washington trade. This is where movie "Draft Day" comes to mind.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...the-next-level/

Bowe on the Browns

I agree. I don't think Haslam has much input at all.

If they do not draft a WR in the first couple, any team they play will be in the 8 in the box defense.

It's pretty simple, you have to have the threat of taking it over the top to make a defense adjust.

Right now, there is no threat. Benjamin is the only possibility, but his play is one dimensional between the hash marks and the sideline.

What rookie receiver has this threat capability?

Person who controls preventing eight in the box is the QB. QB must force defenses to cover and not pressure. Teams throw eight stopping the run and forcing QB to make a quick throw. Browns have receivers who can make the catch and get open. Are they super bowl quality, no, but neither will a rookie receiver. In order to help a rookie, you must have others who will draw coverage.

You nicely put him in his place bugs...:)
I still hope they draft one of the big 3 receivers if available.

Gabriel? Dude was wide open down the field quite a few times.

Gabriel was wide, wide, wide open at least a dozen times last year and the ball never went anywhere near him. With better QB play in the 2nd half of the season, even with the ill fated switch to Gordon, Gabriel still would have been a 1000 yard receiver.

I think Gabriel breaks out this season.

I love this kid .. +1

Me too. All out every play and isn't afraid to use his small frame to block either! Great story too about how he made the roster and etc. Hoping and wishing he can be a force!

I agree! I wish we could put his lion heart into some bigger bodies. Could have had a ton more yards last year.

We could have AJ Green and Calvin Johnson but until we have the QB position figured out, I'd still put 8 in the box.

Thanks

If you were building a run scheme offense and receiver is a need, identify your choice receiver. Does your description match the scouting report of any of those three? I like the big 3. I can't see who fits.

My only dilemma what other option might be available and better fit. Farmer's options could be Trae Waynes (I don't care we took Gilbert last year); Randy Gregory; Malcom Brown; Andrus Peat.

If Farmer doesn't or can't trade, he'll have an interesting decision to make. Getting Bowe removes the urgency getting a receiver early.

So a 2nd round rookie WR is the only thing keeping teams from stacking the box on us?

Makes sense..

https://twitter.com/nfltrade_rumors

Nearly 75% of the deal is guaranteed......

And I assume most of it is in the first year..

Which is basically a "show us" one year deal..

If he can be replaced next season, then it doesn't kill us.. The kind of deal that in the final yea, if costs less to cut him, than pay him, and we can fill his spot.. We can move forward..

I think guaranteed $$ is essentially spilt down the middle or at least the cap hit for us in 2016.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/dwayne-bowe/

So if we like him, we pay $8M. If we don't, we cut him and pay a little more than half of his cap hit in 2016, is the way I am reading it.

Yeah. Not terrible.

Considering his expectations....I'd say Gabriel broke out last year. What a find.

Not exactly great either but if the dude starts catching balls and wrecking people - I doubt any of us will care how much he's making lol.

I kind of have this massive chunk of hope that Bowe could end up being a key contributor both on field and off!

Any two year deal is likely going to be a good one. Even if we had to cut Bowe for some reason the cap ramifications would be negligible for the long term.

No, I'm going to judge Farmer on how his draft picks PLAY THIS YEAR. BOTH first round picks better play a significant role. Better not be bench warmers like last years crop was. Better be good citizens and not get suspended multiple times during the season. We need PLAYERS. Not bench warmers. And we NEED a QUARTERBACK. We NEED an elite PASS RUSHER. So no, I won't judge his draft immediately. Unless once again he drafts the smallest QB on the planet. THEN I might yelp a little. I knew the minute he took Johhny it was trouble. But in general, I will wait for the season. And I will PRAY he learned his lesson from last years mess.