DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The QB Situation in 2016-2017

Absolutely understand and its not about Teddy, I was in favor of drafting Teddy myself come draft day last year. Honestly it was the news he bought his mother a pink caddy that I got over on him. I will say however though ALL reports were Teddy was a pro-ready QB, however did not have much upside. For all we know that could be true and he may be at his ceiling already. Time will tell on that one. However you have to admit, there werewhat 29 other teams, some in JUST as BAD of a QB situation as us that passed on him as well. So it tells me that Farmer was not the only one to wonder what his ceiling was.

Not picking on you, because yours seems to be the perception of a lot of posters here ... ie, that once JM's "head is on straight" he will be the QB the Browns thought he would be. My thinking is that Manziel's "professional" state of mind should be a given, and that what worries me is his skill set is not NFL grade. I argued that on last years' draft boards, and have yet to see anything to dissuade me. His psyche and attitude could be as rock-solid as Roger Staubach's, but it won't necessarily mean he can play in this league. Ah well, I know I've said that few times here lately, so I'll stop saying it. FWIW, I'm not one of those who would rather be right than to win. I'd be glad to be proven wrong, and if I end up being wrong I'll be here to take my lumps.

That is not the question that he asked of you. You would you have done differently this off-season?

I think he question was what you have done THIS FA period.

TB... yeah would have been the wise pick... but that aside... what should we have done this winter... not last spring.

Me? I would have thrown money at Hoyer to keep him for one more year... but I guess that wasnt an option...hell I might even had tagged his arse... and paid the 16 MIl for this year.... sure I will get flamed for that but JM and JM... ugh... lets pray for a JM we all hoped for or a McCown from his Chicago year

Well I'm not steve, but I agree with his post. The Browns have basically three options at this point imo.......

1. Trade up for Mariota/Winston...I'm not a fan of this but a lot of smoke says it could happen. If this is the case they dump JM for what they can get.

2. Trade for a vet like Geno/RG3 if they get Mariota outed. I like this better, but it will take a little luck for this to happen and can't be counted on.

3. Draft a mid rounder, keep JM, and let them compete. This is the most likely scenario imo.

My fear is that they are in love with MM and will make the move......I'm not a big fan of his. However, you said something the other day that made me think that this is a real possibility. The roster is aging, and we have jack at QB.....we simply can't waste another year. I think they like MM a bunch, and if the Titans are willing to trade down I won't be shocked to see them move up and grab him. I wouldn't agree with it, but I would understand the reasoning.

I just think it's the situation we're in and we have to hope for the best from it. No sense in throwing more premium draft picks at bad QBs this year. Like I've said before, drafting "developmental" QBs can only work if you have someone to keep him on the bench. I've offered another strategy a couple months ago where we see if Oakland (with new coach and OC) like Mariota and make a draft day trade for Carr, but that doesn't seem like a realistic possibility.

Brian Hoyer is not a 16 million a year QB. lol Sorry but that would be the worst tag in the history of the NFL. They did offer Hoyer a contract and he declined it because he knew he would have to compete with Manziel and was afraid he would loose out. McCown whether you think is better or slightly worse, is not a drop off from Hoyer, so that moves washes out at the very LEAST, at the most, he is a better player slightly HOWEVER he is a better mentor for whoever. I believe we are better off with McCown than hoyer, neither is the future of any team, but McCown is going to be better for our locker room and for our developing players.

Having his head on straight means many things.. putting in time, effort, showing progress, ability, a solid skill set, understanding and wanting to be a professional QB, not just "talking a good game." His Heisman means nothing now, not that it ever did, except in the fans'/ESPN "Johnny Football" mentality.

I think he has a very limited amount of time to show he can do these things. The Browns need to know who and what the 2015 Manziel is, before the draft, and personally, I believe it will be an uphill battle for him. Just coming out of rehab, with most likely no access to any kind of training facilities, and being forced to prove himself in a very short time frame would be difficult for any athlete, but the Browns also have to make a commitment to the other 52 players on the roster who are working their tails off year round.

After last year's performance it is crunch time for Manziel, time to prove it or go home.

Absolutely. I do not think one fan on here can disagree with that. Even the hardest of JF fans and most against him. I am actually one of the few that think we are in a decent spot going forward. If this year JF flames out and is a bum, we have McCown that come in and at LEAST ride the waves to finish the season. But at least we will know where we stand going into 2016 with a much better FA class and draft prospect at the QB position than this year.

I am not the all doom and gloom of some people. We are building something here, you cant deny we have made some pretty good steps in the right direction. We are lacking a for sure QB yes...the most important position in football..yes. But we have an opportunity to find out what we have this year, and if its not JF then next year we get our guy.

I think Mort's report is being blown out of proportion. It's the off/silly season and everyone on the NFL beat is fighting for page views. His info is that the offensive staff didn't talk about Manziel specifically when discussing what they were gonna do at the QB position this year. He took that to mean that Manziel wasn't in the Browns plans. I take it to mean there is no more Hoyer/Manziel set of plays. Hopefully this year they just plan on having Johnny run the "Hoyer Offense". His escapability (sp?) will come into play once the play breaks down instead of his mobility being emphasized away from the base O.

Actually, from I remember watching last year when Manziel came in Part of the problem was he was running HOYERS offense, not an offense that suits Manziel. Very little roll outs, no shotgun, and quick reads instead of lettng him roll out and make a play down field with buying time with his feet.

I'm concerned. very much so. I don't see a solution either and frankly, that's the most concerning. Having a problem at a postion is nothing new for any team. Happens all the time.

Not having a solution, now that's a problem

So instead of just talking/complaining/expressig concern, why don't we open it up to possible solutions.

I'm not sure who posted it, but would anyone consider giving up our two first round picks to move up to grab one of the top two QBs in this draft?

How about Trading for guy of reasonable quality? Who and what would you give up for them?

Any later round QB's strike your fancy? Who?

I'd much rather discuss options than talk about what mess we are in.

Here's a bit more symbolism on our QB situation, SuperBrown:

It boggles the mind just how hard it is for us to get a decent QB. I must have started this post a zillion times, then deleted them all... It's almost like an impossible situation for us... Do we reach and draft a QB high, or wait till further down in the draft? Or do we just wait till next year?

Only time will tell. (((UGH!!!)))

Not for nuthin, but Johhny wasn't running ANYONE's offense because he pissed away the season instead of preparing and studying. And if it was "Hoyer's" offense he was running, the rest of the Offense wouldn't have looked lost and disjointed and out of place seeing as they had been running that offense for near 15 weeks..

No need to apologize... I knew it would be panned... was panned every time I mention it.

Statues are not built for the critics; only for those with the courage to be criticized

Didn't read the other replies yet.

I do not think that we will resolve the QB position this year. The only advantage we will have 12 months from now over today is that the Johnny situation will likely be resolved, one way or another.

I think we will be looking for a QB this time next year. The only way we won't be is if we sell the farm to get Mariota. That will delay the next QB search by a year.

I know Buffalo was in a prevent style defense, but what happened to the Manziel at the end of the Buffalo game to the Manziel the rest of the year?
That was the QB I thought we drafted.

I have a feeling next year we will be hearing..."With the first pick in the 2016 NFL draft, the Cleveland Browns select (Insert Name); Quarterback (insert university)."

Wether it's from us tanking or we just straight suck. Looks to be a much harder schedule next season. I'd rather suck and get the #1 pick so we can fix the QB position than suck but win 4 games and miss out on the top guy(s) then waste our pick by reaching on a guy. (Like we missed on Luck, reached on TRich and Weeden)

How many more years till we need to think about Joe Thomas? He's not getting any younger.

Just to see, I ran the generator and successfully traded the #12 to Oakland for their 1st round next year and their 5th round this year. Could happen

Picking Manzeil was a mistake. We all see that now. Yes, I too wanted Teddy, but that didn't happen. So, what now. We can't change istory, so talking Teddy is a waste of time, unless one feels like pouring salt on a wound is helpful.

I really think they and others thought Johnny would work out. I have a feeling that Pettine feels just like we do about the situation. As for farmer, what can he do about it now. The FA market is full of guys like McCown. I like Bradford"s talent, but the guy hasnot really done anything since he has been in the league. The Rams have sucked just as we have, and counted on him to be their savior. It didn't work out for them, so they traded QB with Philly, and now have another question mark at QB. Foles looked good, but the same questions can be asked about him that have been asked about others. Small sample, and was it the scheme, lack of film on him, or does he really have it? I don't think anyone is sure right now. But, one thing is sure, the Rams were done with him.

Our situation is what it is. I don't think they have a choice now as to not at least let Johnny try again. I don't think they are banking that he will turn it around, and thus they brought in a guy who could manage things until something better comes along. I wanted to keep Hoyer, but feel now that he was in the mode of I'm the starter or I want out. I don't blame him, but I don't care for that type of attitude from a guy with limited skills. He played well when everything was right around him, and that was it.

As for what to do now, crying over spilled milk will get us nowhere. I think McCown was chosen because he knows he is not the answer, but will get a chance and has no problem playing the mentor to his competition. I really don't see him being worse or better than Hoyer. I hope that because of the nature of the QBs around the league who are available, that the FO does concentrate on strengthening what they can until a viable solution presents himself.
I know you took exception to cfrs's question, and I don't really care why as that is between you two, but I truly would love to know what you would suggest they do. Not as a jab at you, but more of a question to someone who does have some smarts. I can't think of any options that make sense, and hope someone has one I've not considered.

As for drafting a guy, I want no part of Mariota. His game against Ohio State showed me that he is just another spread QB that will need time to figure out defenses and adjust to the pro game. With our fanbase and the failure this team has had up to this point as far as QBs go, we need to get someone who can play in a pro style offense right away. I think Winston is the only guy who has that skill day one.

That being said, Winston comes with baggage. The question is should we overlook it, and take another leap of faith? If so fine, but if not, I say don't let other parts of the team suffer while hoping it will work. Strengthen what you can in this draft, and take one of the lower round guys and see if they will develop.

It is what it is, only time will show what happens.

Are the Browns really 90 percent done with Johnny Manziel? Hey, Mary Kay!


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Cleveland Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel kneels alone on the sideline in the fourth quarter during their game against the Cincinnati Bengals. (John Kuntz / The Plain Dealer)
Plain Dealer photography staff
Print Email Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group
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on April 04, 2015 at 7:16 PM, updated April 04, 2015 at 8:24 PM


Hey, Mary Kay: Is it true that the Browns are 90 percent done with Johnny Manziel as ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported? -- Rob Leitch, Ft. Myers, Florida

Hey, Rob: Based on conversations with the Browns at the NFL annual meeting last week, I really don't believe they're ready to give up on Manziel after only seven quarters of work.

For starters, they don't even know what they have in Manziel until he gets out of rehab -- likely sometime this week -- and they want to see if he can live up to his first-round status once he has his personal life under control. General Manager Ray Farmer stressed that he believes Manziel has the physical tools to excel in the NFL. He also believes Manziel will flourish in the Browns' play-action, run-oriented scheme when the team doesn't have to rely on him to carry it.

There is some thought that the offense changed too drastically when Manziel played, and that it threw off the entire unit. What's more, the Browns now have one of Manziel's mentors in Kevin O'Connell as their quarterbacks coach. Manziel thrived and improved in the few months he spent with O'Connell before the draft last year, and the Browns are confident he can bring out the best in Manziel.

When asked about Manziel at the meetings, coach Mike Pettine said, "There's a reason we drafted him where we did. This is a guy that accounted for 90-plus touchdowns in college.'' Of course, things could change if the Browns somehow manage to land Heisman Trophy winner Marcus Mariota, but for now, they want to see what they have in Manziel when he's on the straight and narrow. It remains to be seen how patient they'll remain if he relapses.

Hey, Mary Kay: Let's be honest. Brian Hoyer was never brought in for a meeting and wasn't brought back because of Ray Farmer's texts. Will you or other Cleveland media hold Farmer accountable? Will any of you ask the tough question? What did Farmer say in those texts? Why did he feel the need to send it in-game? Why is Jimmy Haslam sticking with a guy who ran a 10-6 quarterback out of town?

As a lifelong Browns fan, I'm angry! You in the media keep tossing softballs about helmet color and draft strategy, but refuse to ask the tough question. Haslam ordered Manziel to be picked despite the $400,000 analytic report that said Teddy Bridgewater was better. It goes on and on! Hold them accountable! We deserve a winner!!!! -- Dave Poteet, Minerva, Ohio

Hey, Dave: The Browns let Brian Hoyer go in free agency in large part because they wanted to upgrade the position and didn't view him as their long-term starter. Hoyer wasn't going to be happy sitting behind another quarterback, because he wants an opportunity to start. They looked at his final four games here and felt they could do better.

They felt Josh McCown was an upgrade. It remains to be seen if they were right. But they made it clear when they benched him last year that he was not their answer. He also strongly felt that Ray Farmer was not in his corner, and it was time for both sides to move on. All of those questions have been asked of Haslam, Farmer and Pettine over and over.

Hey, Mary Kay: I loved watching you and Andre Knott's on The Browns Red Zone. I'm a huge Browns fans and this is my take: if the Browns can't get Marcus Mariota, how about Kevin White at receiver and Danny Shelton at defensive tackle or end. -- Wade Tyus, Lakewood

Hey, Wade: Glad you enjoy the show. If the Browns don't trade up for Mariota (which could take as many as three first-round picks), they won't be able to land both White and Shelton with their No. 12 and No. 19 picks. At least one of them will be gone by No. 12, and possibly both. They might have a shot at Louisville receiver DeVante Parker at No. 12, and then perhaps they could come back with a Malcolm Brown, the defensive tackle from Texas, at No. 19. They might also consider moving back a little from No. 19 and picking up Minnesota tight end Maxx Williams. If Shelton is there are No. 12, I think they will strongly consider him to help shore up the 32nd-ranked run defense.

Hey, Mary Kay: If the Browns stay at 12 and 19 in the first round, do you see them taking any positions other than wide receiver, tackle, outside linebacker or defensive lineman? --- Bob Ruple, Newbury, Ohio

Hey, Bob: If they do stay at 12 and 19, I think you've hit on most of the positions they'll focus on. They will host Miami offensive tackle Ereck Flowers, receiver DeVante Parker, nose tackle Danny Shelton and many of the other top prospects for pre-draft visits. They also have Miami cornerback Quintin Rollins on their radar and need a premier tight end. link

Please stop telling me what I can post and not post. A couple of guys asked me a question about what the Browns should have done. I answered the question and even said someone would say.......something like don't cry over spilled milk. Sheesh.

Just stop reading my posts if they upset you so much. We were actually having a fairly decent conversation for once.

Mary Kay's article goes along w/my initial thinking. It will be great if Johnny succeeds and leads the Browns to the promised land.

I simply think that those odds are long and we will be in the very same position of not having a qb at the conclusion of the season.

I'm not buying that for a minute. It's an excuse. Nothing more. How are you--and the Browns--going to blame Shanny for the defensive performance? The Bengals ran the ball right down on our throats.

Their rookie RB talked trash after we beat them the first game. He said the Browns were not very good and he wasn't impressed by them. I was hoping we would punish him. Instead, he punished us. Ran us over. Stiff arming guys to the ground. Flinging defenders off of him. Abusing us. But yeah, that was Shanny's fault.

You did NOT answer the question that was asked of you (What would you have done differently during THIS off-season?)...you rambled on about something ELSE that you wanted to throw out there...again (Bridgewater). Some people call that "agenda posting".

If you want to go and get all indignant about challenges to your response, at least understand/acknowledge that you did NOT do what you claim you did.

That's twice you made that stupid comment. I let it go the first time because there are actually people trying to contribute to the discussion.

Look, I started the thread. I asked questions. So, don't give me this stuff about ME dodging the question. Good God! And no one can pigeonhole me by asking one specific question. Passing on Teddy for Johnny happened LESS THAN ONE FREAKING YEAR AGO! It is relevant! You just don't want to deal w/it because it doesn't fit your agenda that Farmer craps golden bricks.

This off-season Vers...what would you have done differently at QB during THIS off-season? THAT is the question that you STILL have not answered.

Don't spew any BS about Bridgewater or Farmer, or Banner or Lombardi and don't try and spout off MY opinion of Farmer.

What would you have done differently at the QB position during THIS off-season??

Why are you intent on ruining the thread? Aren't there enough other threads you can spew your crap on? Have you answered one question I posed in the original post?

Where did I tell you what to post? The spilled milk comment wasn't a shot at you, it was just a general comment.

I also thought I gave a very detailed post to your original topic, did you not read any of it? I don't understand why you have to be confrontational with anybody who has any thoughts different from yours. You cry that many don't want an honest debate, but it is becoming more and more obvious that you are the one who wants to squash any beliefs but your own.

I have always enjoyed your posts, but lately you are just coming across as a guy who wants to argue, and whine that people are picking on you. You start this thread out about the QB situation in the future, and then immedately throw in your Bridgewater crap, as if that has anything to do with the future.

As for answering cfrs's question, I ask where. All I see is you bellyaching about Teddy, and then jumping down his throat. How about answering the question? Or is it that you know there is no answer right now, and that doesn't fit your purpose. IMO, you never answered anything, and you were crying over spilled milk. Bringing up Teddy is not what you asked for in your original post, you wanted to talk about the future, and reverted back to whining about the past.

I don't understand why you wanted to go after me, when my post was almost completely agreeing with you. I get the feeling that you really don't want an honest debate. You bitch about people not talking "football" and in the next breath you go on a rant about regimes.

Don't tell me what to read,I gave a legitimte response and feel I added to the conversation. Don't try to make it sound like I derailed it.

Duck...dodge...deflect.

It's ok Vers...we all know that there were no other BETTER options available at QB than what we plucked during THIS off-season.

Farmer did a masterful job manipulating the rest of the league to grab THE best available starter and a capable backup. Everyone knows it...you know it (but won't say it)...everyone knows that YOU know it.

I'll take the proverbial foot off your throat now.

I don't post here often, but I'd be willing to entertain this option. Trade one of our 1st rnd picks this year for a 1st rnd in 16'. Draft either Dline or WR this year in the 1st and go with present qb's that we have for 15'. This gives us 2 1st rnd picks next year to address qb situation if need be. I don't have much faith in Manziel panning out, but who really knows. McCown should be able to limp us through this season, leaving us with the ammunition to grab a qb in 16' draft if need be.

Well.......it was good while it lasted.

WTF does that mean?

it means that he was challenged and he doesn't like being challenged.. Given that he's all knowing (or at least believes he is) thus he'll do one of two things, call someone a name (and get banned AGAIN) or deflect AGAIN.

he will never answer that question.

Tab...Pettine has acknowledged the Bills were in prevent defense on the Manziel TD drive against the Bills.

Pettine was impressed with that drive but acknowledged that the Bills were playing a prevent defense and that the sequence wasn't a true test of what Manziel might have faced against Indianapolis.

And....

Pettine has offered praise for that drive while also noting that the Bills were in prevent defense and that was not a true measure for Manziel's development.

Link 1

Link 2

We could be in a worse situation next year! We have 2 1st round picks this year. IF...

a) We don't draft a solid QB prospect
b) We don't trade-out to stockpile for next year
c) McCown plays serviceable and goes 7-9

We well be in the same boat, with less trade ammo.