DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Religious Freedom.

What makes a cake gay?

laying two of the same kind of layer together of course.

When Icing to it.

Nm

Well said Swish.

Prove nothing... ..who cares. Don't think most of us have anything to prove here. Just having fun!

However, if you are going to quote me, next time, go the extra mile and get it accurate. If you are a writer, you certainly recognize the importance of getting it right.

On another note, it is truly a sad thing to see when someone feels the need to put others down in a feeble attempt to make him/herself feel important or better about life. Go back through this thead and see how many of your posts were put downs to others or rude commentary. You may be surprised. Evidence of a sad state of affairs.

I am very happy for you, your wife, and daughter having a nice arrangement. It was heartwarming to read about. However, the part where you ask why religious people cannot do that, I am not sure what you mean by that? Later you you mentioned minding their own damn business. I think that is exactly what the Religious Freedom Restoration Act is about. It is about minding ones own business when it comes to the religious freedoms of others.

I also think you have it incorrect when you state that it makes one a bigot when they try to enforce.. I think you meant force ones own beliefs on the masses. It is not about the masses. It is about the individual. Nothing about the masses having rights. The individual has rights. Your hatred of religion is your own affair. I will not worry about that. It is between you and you alone. I appreciate your allowing your daughter to enjoy some grandmother time. However, that does not make your hatred of religious people somehow now righteous and you are not sacrificing anything. You are allowing your daughter to go to church.

Your claim of tolerance is quite puzzling. You are tolerant of others unless they oppose your view of the world. I am not a church going evangelical. I have my own demons to deal with concerning religious faith. It is NEVER, EVER about the masses as you claimed earlier. It is NEVER, EVER about your tolerance of others. It is about individual rights codified in the Bill of Rights and in this instance, the 1st Amendment.

I believe that part of the problem is that intolerance has been called tolerant. We all have an individual right to free speech, unless of course we have hateful or bigoted speech, then the masses... society gets to overwhelm individual rights. Yet, we all know that societies change, morals change, what will become of those who cried intolerance when their time to be persecuted by the masses? We have a right to freedom of religion. Many of the tolerant variety claim they do not want religion involved in government or government involved in the business of religion. Unless of course, the religious beliefs do not meet the expectations of the masses, then of course the involvement of government in religious matters is perfectly acceptable. Again we have a right to protection from the state in religious matters. Whoa to he who is tolerant of religious persecution when they look for support when they are persecuted.

I have read most of the arguments made in this forum and have found many to be well thought out and even reasonable. I have also found many to be intolerant, irrational, not well thought out and dare I say it... perhaps even hateful. Look unto yourself to decide which you feel you are. I can assure you, if you feel you are some moral crusader, fighting for society, you are not doing any good for anyone, yourself or your fellow citizens.

Very tolerant of you 40YW. You show acceptance of them as a person. You also keep your own individuality and decline their request. If they refuse to buy the bear claws, I am sure you would accept that choice as well, correct?

No! I have the best Bear Claws around! I would be insulted and yell "Get out of here you @#$%&!

Love the last paragraph of your post. Also- love this one: " I have stated before on this board that I'm one who would rather study religion that practice it."

Pretty much sums up my view as well.


This is why I remain open to the wisdom that may be found in other religions/philosophies outside the purview of just the Christian 'track to enlightenment.'

In each of these tracks, there can be found concepts and precepts for living a just, moral and righteous existence... and it would be myopic (perhaps even arrogant) of me to believe that only one of these life blueprints holds 'the code.'


.02

I never called myself religious, but in my journey I examined many religious beliefs, books, ceremonies, etc.; I was unsure but I eventually became an Atheist. I think this is the true religious freedom, being able to explore and choose without pressure what you believe in. Anyone forcibly trying to convert or shame you into their way of thinking is the opposite of that.

Considering your statements above, you must agree that religion has no place at all in public schools & colleges, or for that matter any public or government agencies right?

One identical layer on top of another?

So physical proximity makes people gay? Well, we have solved that one then.

I'd like to answer that one. Religions should be taught in school. Knowledge is power. Understanding breeds opportunity. This is not saying worship should be taught, as it shouldn't. The basic tenants and history should be taught.

and covered with frosting.

No, physical proximity makes the cake gay. Why making a gay cake is a problem for someone is beyond me. I'm all for happy cakes.

You don't get it.

Religious nuts arent minding their own business. I'm really confused as to why you're having a hard time grasping that.

They want gay marriages banned. That isn't minding your own business. Not even remotely.

When you try to make your personal beliefs a law, you are absolutely being a bigot. Because that's the definition in its purest form: bein intolerant of others opinions or beliefs.

Once again, confused as to why you and others can not grasp that simple concept.

People oppose my views on the world all the time. That has nothing to do with tolerance.

For instance, 40 is religious. I'm not telling this guy he can't presch the bible to his own kids. Or in his own church.

However, I have an issue when he starts preaching that nonsense to ME, when his ideas are bein made laws that effect ME.

Because religious laws aren't being tolerant of other people as well.

See you're arguing one side without arguing the other. You think it works only one way, and that's why you and others are on the decline in this country. You're seeing from a linear view instead of multiple angles.

Like I said, you can say whatever the hell you want. That's your right. Just like its my right to say your religion is full of crap.

However, when your, or my views start effecting people around us because we try to make our PERSONALS beliefs laws, THATS where the issue is.

Gay marriage doesn't effect you personally. So why the hell should you care what two consenting adults do?

Does gay marriage invalidate your marriage? No.
Does it effect you paying your bills on the first of the month? No
Did the bible change? No
Does gay marriage make you question if you're straight or not? No.

So why can't religious people mind their own business?

I hate religion. Hate it. But you don't see me advocating that religion be banned from this country. Hell I'm letting my daughter go to church. Because MY personally beliefs doesn't need to effect the people around me. That's the definition of tolerance.

But once again, you're struggling with that concept.

Swish, just so you know, not all people who believe in a Christian life share the views of some. I really don't understand the points many other Christians on this board have made. As a matter of fact, many churches have stood up for equality.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/03/18/where-christian-churches-stand-on-gay-marriage/

I don't belong to a religion, yet I believe. I believe we are all God's children and as such, none of us are better than others. We each seek our own path and it's not for me to judge. Nothing about gay marriage or serving gay people threatens my salvation. There is no reason to use my beliefs to withhold services or goods from any other human being. I will not use my belief system as a weapon against others.

I just wanted you to know that not all who believe are the same.

Of course you don't, that would take coming off of the fence and taking a stand.

To bring up the wedding cake or pizza catering examples again, aren't those people minding their own business? I don't recall them saying anything about banning gay weddings, just that they didn't want to be involved in any way. Homosexual marriage will eventually be the norm, just like interracial marriages are now. It takes time. If certain people don't want to be involved in that, isn't that their business?

I don't need you, a church or an organized religion to read the Bible, come to my own conclusion and take a stand.

I'm a strong person. I don't need you and your gang to tell me what to think. As a matter of fact, reading the ramblings you post, I want no part of what you believe.

Yes. I have no idea why you brought that up as I've already agreed with your statement before.

If they want to hide behind religion as far as providing services to gays, that's their issue. Store probably won't last long anyway.

It works both ways. But see it seems to be I can see from both perspectives, but a lot of the people on these boards can't.

I definitely understand where you're coming from wih this bro.

And I've said before that in actuality, most Christians really don't give a crap about other people's lives. We are all just trying to get through life.

But we got some religious zealots on this board. So when I say Christians and such, it's mainly the people on these boards, and politicians who I'm talking about.

We do mind our own business until you Libs come along and tell us we have to accept the act of Homosexuality as ok.

To us it is a sin. When we Christians get the word from on high that we are supposed to start promoting sin by providing our approval of Gay marriage and baking cakes with two guys kissing, well then we will change. Until then it remains a sin no matter whether the heathen believes it or not.

You can look around and find Christians who think otherwise and have them bake your cake and bless your marriage, but not here.

Which religions? All? Impossible.

Really it's a sin to sell a cupcake to a gay couple? LOL good one.

Stop looking foolish and read all the posts.

I would suggest major ones, especially ones in this country. When I was young and in elementary school, we called this social studies. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and maybe a sprinkling of Greek, Roman, and Norse religions. I learned Greek, Roman, Norse, Hindu, Judaism, and basic Islamic theories in public school back in the 70s. I would also suggest teaching the basics of American Indian religions. Seeing as most of our literature come from these religions, it only makes sense to me.

Considering my statement said nothing about religion, I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion.

No worries, you have a lock on foolish here

I'm not sure how you missed the point. Just a question on... Public vs Private entities. Per your post....you believe private entities can teach and sell what they want to who they want. Public entities must abide by the law. Hence the question should religion and prayer have a place in public schools.

I can agree to teaching the basics of religion in history but do you believe prayer should be a part of the daily routine in public schools? Because I know many do.

On the subject of wedding cakes...

I am a sign maker. With 30 years experience in the graphic arts industry 20 of them have been in the designing and making of signs.

When a customer comes through the door it's my job to fit the best option for them within their budget. If they want something it's my job to make it happen.

However...

I have limits to what I'm willing to do. For instance, in that video where the guy pretends to be a gay customer visiting a Muslem bakery asking for a wedding cake for his gay wedding. Presented with that same customer for say, a banner celebrating said wedding I'm all over it to get them the best I do within their budget. But my own personal views will limit exactly what I'm willing to design for that banner.

If they want a picture of two men holding hands or kissing I'm likely to pass on that job. I've come to believe that everyone has the right to do as they please. Homosexual marriages included. But the sight of two men kissing, or even holding hands romantically, sickens me.

It's much like people sucking oysters off the half shell. I hate that. I'm all for others eating such if they like it and I'd never infer that they shouldn't. But honestly, I'd avoid situations where they would be sucking those oysters in front of me. I feel like I could puke.

On the gay wedding banner, I'd be more than happy to make a congratulatory banner but not with a picture of intimate contact between two men. Working on that would sicken me. I'd feel like I could puke.

So I'd try to steer the customer to something less graphically repulsive to me. If they insist on their request then I'd pass on that job.

I am a Christian. But that has nothing to do with my viewpoint. I've learned to become tolerant and loving to all people of all types. But personally, without hiding behind my Bible beliefs, there are just some things I'm not willing to do based on my own preferences.

I think many Christians hide behind their religion using Bible passages as the "bad guy" in reference to why they dislike certain sins, [all the while being a sinner themselves... as we all are]. I think that the coward's way of not being honest. It's like saying, "I thought it was ok until I read in the Bible that it is wrong so now I think it's wrong too."

I don't hate men making love to each other on the basis of what the Bible says, I hate the graphic reality of it which makes me ill.

The same is true of other sign customers I would turn away. I've turned away those who have deep political convictions wanting a sign they can install on top of their car so they can drive around displaying their hatred of our President. Yes, more than once. I don't want to be part and parcel to that. I defend their right to have that opinion, but I don't want to associate myself with it.

The owner of the company where I work took a job from a Pagan motorcycle club for some large stickers they wanted to put on some mirrors at their club headquarters. I hated that he took that without asking me if I was willing to work on such a job. I put it off for many weeks refusing to comply. But the owner was insistent as the customer who requested it was a relative of a family of whom is one of our best customers. He didn't want to offend them. Finally I broke and agreed to do the job with the understanding that I will never do anything like that again. I felt sick over it for weeks after.

I don't mind that someone wishes to be a member of a Pagan group. I just don't want to be a part of sponsoring or encouraging that. It's nothing to do with the Bible. I felt that way before I became a Christian or a Bible reader.

I've turned away customers because of graphics or messages that don't set well with me, or because they were jerks, or argumentative over price, or for many other reasons. That doesn't mean my company is going to go out of business. We have plenty of customers who are bona fide business owners who need commercial signage that is not controversial or does not go against my own view points.

I do not have to take jobs I don't want to do. Besides, jobs like that are less than 1% of what comes through the door. There are plenty of other shops who will do that sort of work. It's as simple as that.

As there is no single prayer that can satisfy all, I'd say no. I have no problems with displays of religion for sports, graduations, or other functions. I actually agree with the sentiments of "please let no one get hurt today", "please let us all succeed in the world after we leave here", or "please let us perform our best" for school functions. I actually think group prayer for a specific function as competitions can actually clear the mind and help people concentrate to achieve a common goal.

I'm very curious to this instance and I would like more information. Why would you refuse this? Was it a symbol they were using or Pagan religions in general?

In a public school? Absolutely not.

However, these instances of kids being forced to remove the cross from a t-shirt or around their neck or not being allowed to carry a Bible with them or pray quietly between classes or utter a blessing at lunch also has to stop. Kids should be given more latitude to live their faith, even in school... and yes, I would apply that to all faiths.

I had to re-create their demon-like logo which I didn't like working on. Very creepy. I didn't feel that fell under responsibility as a commercial sign maker keeping in mind that my job as such is making signs for commercial businesses. I don't mind one-off jobs for individuals or groups. But this group seemed sleezy to me and I'd have rather not participated. I looked up [pagan mc] and didn't like what I'd found. There's always the possibility I could be wrong about their intentions.

I know little of pagan religions in general. Like I'd said before, anyone can do whatever they wish but I'm not always willing to participate and I believe that's my right as an indidual.

Because him just taking things by force wouldn't be a loving God now would it? He does love us, as for all those bad things you listed, the reason why their are wars and other atrocities are because human beings are evil at their core, no matter how hard we try to do good things we are evil. Look no farther then the terrifying weapons we have created that will kill every piece of life including insects on this planet, yet our governments and folks will scream we want peace...yeah they want peace all right...the hardness of the human is heart is why these things happen, it has nothing to do with God.

Your placing blame on God for the evil actions of men's hearts. God didn't want nor create mindless robots, he created us, he wants us to choose to love him out of our own free will, not because were demanded to.



Because their is no reason to update The Bible. God told us he is the same now and forever. He is the rock everyone will break themselves against, he will stand eternal unchanged, when this universe no longer exists...

who exactly are you, me, or any other insignificant mortal to dare dictate our petty mortal terms to God. He is immortal little man! One would be wise to remember that when speaking in context of God.

Only us mortal humans are in need of "updates to a book" because times have changed when in realuty nothing has changed, the only things that have changed are the methods of delivery, the context is still the same.

men and women still marry and have children
The sun still rises every morning
the moon still turns full at the predicted time
Fish still spawn their their little ones every spring
We still plant our gardens in the spring
It still gets hot in the summer
The birds still chirp every morning.

Are you cathving on yet?

THE WORLD JUST LIKE GOD HAS BEEN, PRESENTLY IS, AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE THE SAME IT WAS WHEN HE CREATED IT