DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... The Implications of Racism

May I ask why we never see posts that are about black on black crime or black on white crime or on white on white crime?

Every time I come to this forum, I see massive threads that are about how evil white cops are abusing poor, innocent black men.

I do think that there are many white racist cops that abuse black men. I also think that if you had to deal w/law-breaking citizens every day of your working life and most of them were black men, you might not be so understanding.

I also think that there are more black on black crimes than there are white on black crimes. Why don't we discuss that?

I also think there are plenty of black on white crimes. Why don't we discuss that?

I also think that whites assault other whites. Why don't we discuss that?

I see this narrowing of the topic as a form of racism in itself. Yeah, it's black racism vs whites. Cry foul while ignoring everything else.

Do not misinterpret my point. I AM NOT DEFENDING ANY WHITE COP WHO HURTS A BLACK MAN W/OUT CAUSE.

I am saying that racists exist in all races. I am saying that that only focusing in on one race vs another is a form of racism in itself.

I have been a victim of racism on several occasions and I am white. I just don't freaking cry about it or pretend that blacks are the only ones who are racist.

There are racists in every freaking group. That is a fact!

Now, let me ask you this.............who breaks more laws than anyone else? White males? Black males? White females? Black females? Hispanic men? Hispanic women? Poor white people? Poor black people? Poor hispanic people?

Do you think that has anything to do w/this? Or should we simply ignore the facts?

As a school teacher, I was astounded when the state of California passed a law about schools not being able to inflict consequences on students for cussing them out, being disrespectful, insubordinate, threatening, etc. The logic was that a disproportionate number of students being suspended were black males.

No kidding. I wonder why that is? Because the teachers are ALL racists? I will readily admit that some are. I can't stand those teachers. On the other hand, I work w/a black teacher who ignored a black student cheating on a test but punished a white student for not returning their class pictures on time. What is that if not racism?

I think we are setting ourselves up for more conflicts. I think it would serve society better to focus on all races coming together rather than focusing in on how one race is abusing another.

Perhaps the focus should be on understanding, education, tolerance, acceptance, and trying to resolve problems rather than assign blame.

Most of you won't get that until it's too late.

Ugh. More drivel.

LOL....how profound.

Of course, there is no truth to what I say.

You are the only victims.

I think you have a very narrow-minded view of racism.

Before i go on with this discussion, and i mean the down and dirty, cause i've been BEGGING to have to discussion with you Vers, we need to make a deal.

I don't bring up my white wife. you don't bring up your hispanic wife.

deal?

I just think it's funny that Clem posted a great post and everyone annoyed it to put their 2 cents in.

I also find it funny when people don't know that "racism" is a system of oppression, so minorities can't be racist, because they don't have power in the system. But that's a case for another day.

Vers,
Sir you are making this way too easy on me. What is the definition of the word racism?

we can absolutely be racist.

You beat me too it!!

your phone is jacked up.

and we can be racist. come on now.

There's a difference between racism and prejudice. Black people, Latin@ people, Asians; we're all prejudice, but since we don't benefit in racism (A system of benefits that are based on race), we are not racists.

Racism - the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

^^^^^ theres nothing about system and benefits in that book definition. just off that alone, any race can be racist. blacks and other minorities can absolutely be racist as much as whites have been.

As usual, you miss the point.

And it is why society is doomed.

Oh, woe is me.

There are many definitions to many words. Any sociologist (Which is an important view when discussing race/sex/identity) worth their job defines racism as a social system rather than what Oxford says racism is. There's a difference between being prejudice and racism due to this.

No, I just don't think you're making a real point. Your entire post is rhetorical questions that point to where you want it to go.

But, what racism have you experienced? If you can do it without mentioning affirmative action or "dirty looks" then I'll be shocked.

Blacks have zero power to enforce a racist agenda. Now of course there are a blacks who show prejudicial treatment to others. As an educator I would think you would know the difference between the two terms.

It may be better to first move the discussion into the category of minorities.

It is pretty easy to figure out the major issues.

Economic.
Educational.
Cultural.

The first 2 are pretty simple to figure out. We know that minorities start at a disadvantage.

The third item opens a Pandora's Box of issues, and some will suggest that it is the cause, while others will believe that it is an effect.

Now the advantage that the non-minority has is that

Now instead of Black, put in Hispanic, then Asian (Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese).

Now try Italian, Polish, Swedish, Irish. Now that is very difficult, Not so difficult if we place the time of reference to 1850-1900.

Racism will always exist if one chooses that path.

I wasn't gonna post a detailed response, as somebody on this board(read: most) will get defensive and offended by what i'm about to say. But you know what? I got nothing else to do with my time, might as well troll so hard tonight.

side note: CHS, seems you're the only one who understands some of the slang I use. i think me and you are the youngest on the board?

anyways, Let be blunt: I did NOT ask to be black. or turkish. I'm three different ethnicities. Black/Puerto rican/Turkish. My dad is black/turkish and my mom is puerto rican.

I normally say black/turk because i speak Turkce, i don't speak spanish. i tried but whatever.

anyways, i didn't ask to be put into my daddy's ball sack right before he got my mom pregnant. I didn't sign a loan application up in heaven before i descended from the skies and agreed to be a minority. I didn't ask to be born in Germany to two american soldiers. I didn't ask to be raised in America, or Europe.

What am i trying to say? This country was like this before i GOT here. I didn't make it racist. I didn't make the jim crow laws. i didn't cause the civil right's movement. I didn't use christianity and skin tone to justify slavery. It was like that before I was a twinkle in anybody's eyes. I just live here.

just like none of you asked to be white, or latino, or whatever it is you are.

Some of you posters seem to have this idea that the past is the past and we should move on. That's NOT how the world works. Israel doesn't become a country without the Holocaust. Saddam doesn't get taken out of power without 9/11. There are STILL US bases in Europe because of WWII. Japan still has US bases because of WWII. There's STILL a massive difference between west and east Germany even after the fall of the berlin wall.

A lot of psychologist have done studies and how slavery STILL effects the black community to this day. There is a massive distrust between black males and black females because of slavery. Why? I told y'all before, but i'm going to say it again.

Black male A.(BM-A)
Black male B.(BM-B)
Black Female A.(BF-A)
Black female B. (BF-B)
Black Male C.(BM-C)
Slave Master.

A and B are married couples. slaves were allowed to be married.

Let's say BMA isn't doing what he's told. Slave master told him about it already, but he feels he needs to teach BM-A a lesson. Guess what he does? He has BM-B RAPE BF-A right in front of BM-A.

if BM-B refuses to rape BF-A, then slave master has BM-B whipped, and then he has BM-C rape BF-C, as well as BF-A. and the cycle goes on and on.

which still affects black women to this DAY. They have a massive distrust of black men. which is why the whole "independent woman" stemmed from, or part of the reason.

want another example? Sure, I'll hook you up.

Wanna know why black men seem to have this massive need to smash a TON of women, but not just smash, but get them knocked up?

because for a very long time, after treaties was made back in the day that said Blacks that were born from slaves we're automatically property of the slave owner. They encouraged the strongest black males to have sex with as many black women as possible, over and over again, to breed more slaves. That mentality has bleed over even NOW.

now, somebody is going to call BS, even though those are facts. Don't worry, I'll already counter that.

If it wasn't true, then why are whites still feel they are superior to Blacks? If the past doesn't have an affect, then how come the concept of skin tone in our country, which was defended by christianity, STILL have a major affect in our society right now?

yea, exactly.

Oh, and some of y'all need to take some history classes. This nonsense of "GOP are the party that ended slavery".

Wrong. The reason slavery ended had NOTHING to do with actual slaves and feeling bad. and if you read, when Lincoln abolished slavery, it was only SOME slaves, AKA, slavery was ended in the states that were rebelling ONLY. the union still had slaves. it wasn't until after the fact was slavery completely abolished.

and other thing, Lincoln's plan was to send all the blacks to Libya after the war was over, but couldn't complete the policy because he was assassinated. which is why, if you guys didn't know, African Americans have dual citizenship in Libya, we just have to apply for it.

yea....information is a mofo, ain't it?

So slavery still affects us to this day.

so now you got the entire transition of post-civil war. Then you have the infamous Jim crow laws.

last time i checked, blacks didn't invent the jim crow laws. nevermind the crap that was involved in that, but how about this? which people choose to ignore me all the time:

Tulsa, 1921. Suburb called Greenwood, AKA Black Wall street.

predominately black suburb, was very wealthy area, even had their own currency, had the latest fashion and was just a great place.

A BS story about a Black man and a white woman, and whites DESTROYED and KILLED upwards of 300 blacks.

Blacks didn't come up with the concept of white water fountains and colored water fountains. we didn't come up with the concept of jim crow. we didn't come up with the concept of blacks to the back of the bus. We didn't come up with the concept of Segregation.

Whites did. Hell, even to this day, we are more or less quarantined into ghetto's and projects.

Ever heard of the Hough Riots of 1966 in cleveland? The ghetto's were so bad, because of white flight, that the city decided to try and demolish the ghetto's, with the aid of the Housing Act of 1947 i believe?

Blacks were squeezed into what is now known as East Cleveland. The city promised to build back the place but NEVER did. people got so cramped, the stress boiled over, and it turned into a disaster.

blacks didn't do that. Whites did.

So yes, I have resentment, because i have to feel the affects of all this right NOW. White people get mad at us, yet y'all are the reason we are in this environment in the first place. there's so much resentment, that when blacks actually make it out of the hood, we get called coons, sell outs, house niggers, and Uncle tom's, because we wanna so called "please the white masters". yes, thats REAL. yes, i've been called all those names.

So don't get mad at us for the environment YOUR race created. the culture of violence was already establish before i was born, and now i have to live it.

people want to complain about affirmative action, yet we wouldn't need it if it wasn't for these racist white people. y'all wanna complain about a policy, but y'all the reason it needed to be made in the first place.

That's like complaining i didn't clean up the milk properly, even though you're the one who spilled it.

So yes, we have a culture that spans back to jim crow of cops unjustly beating up blacks.
We have a culture of blacks being discriminated in the work force.

Don't tell me to get over it when i'm 4 times as likely to get charged for a crime as whites, even if we have the same criminal record.

Don't tell me to get over it, when i still get looked at funny when i date white girls.

Don't tell me to get over it, when stats show that blacks, even with same credit histories as whites, are less likely to get loans than whites or even asians.

Yes, we have a huge problem with black on black crime. it's stupid, and we keep giving people reasons to hate us. but WHITES put us there.

nobody gives a damn about us. that's the truth. We got a whole city nicked named Chiraq, were more people die than the entire number of soldiers who died in BOTH iraq and afghanistan.

We got a culture of violence that has bled into the black community, and nobody gives a damn. yet some white kids get blasted in sandy hook, or columbine, and now that it affects some white soccer moms, people wanna all of sudden give a crap.

nobody was talking about gun reform when blacks were killing each other though.

People can't just talk about obama's policies. nah, he gotta be a kenyan muslim too, right??

last time i checked, blacks weren't calling him that. that was whites.

man y'all done got me started.

I got so much more fire, WAITING for somebody to say something.

i'd be surprised if i wasn't the youngest poster on here. Anyone younger than 23?

Not to say that it isn't a problem, or that it isn't exclusive to this board, but white on black crime, especially white cops, sells. It sells HUGE. Everyone wants to throw their two cents in. People on all sides of the issue can be quite out of line about it.

Just with this latest story about the South Carolina cop shooting the man. The cop was obviously out of line, but look at how NBC news worded this tweet.

RT @NBCNews: White cop Michael Slager charged with shooting murder of black man #WalterScott

White cops shoot white people, sometimes wrongly, it just never gets that kind of run that this gets, especialy these days. It's typical race baiting by NBC.

As I was reading your longer post I was thinking to myself:
"Damn, Swish... don't hurt'em all at once- save some for later..."



Then I read this short one.
Guess you got a second plate all ready to serve up, son-

Don't back off. Dawgs need to hear what you're saying. It's good for growth.

________________________

General reply to the board:
I'm in the same camp as CHS, when it comes to the definition of racism. It is different than bigotry... and it's our lax use of English that allows us to use the terms interchangeably. They are two diferent things.

Bigotry is a personally-held attitude (oe set of attitudes) about other races, genders, nationalities, etc.

Racism is an institution (read: social structure) in which one ethnic group holds the influence, power and authority to set societal norms for the community at large. Hence, the "-ism" suffix.

So you see... a White person in America can be totally devoid of any hint of bigotry... and yet still be the beneficiary of a racist social environment. Conversely, a Black person can be the most anti-White bigot the world has ever produced, yet not be a beneficiary of the racist environment that surrounds him.

Now, if we were to take the example of South Afrika during the apartheid years, and switch the power groups: Blacks outnumbering Whites 50/1 AND running the show- well, then you'd have the reverse equivalent of life in America.... and that society would be- by definition- no less racist than the one we built here.

________________

All of that in America is about to change, however... and it has everything to do with demographics and migratory patterns.

For the first 400 years, America was populated by a huge surge in immigration from Europe. Those numbers began to dramatically decrease after WWII. That immigration wave has slowed to a trickle, compared with generations/centuries past. Yet, the rate of immigration to America hasn't really changed. What HAS changed? Where these new immigrants are coming from.

With the supply of Russian, Scandinavian and European immigrants leveling off/declining, the new Americans are coming from brown and yellow areas of the globe. It's estimated that American Whites (Euro-Americans) will be a statistical minority before this century reaches its 50 yard line.

I fear that racism (the institution) won't cease to be a feature of American culture until Euro-Americans are gradually replaced by demographics and time. It's too embedded in our culture at present to ever go away with legislation, social activism, or viral cell phone videos of cops beating citizens of color. This won't change until the 'face of America' changes... and even then, the change won't be immediate.

Power dynasties are built to absorb the loss of individuals. They are built to last beyond single generations... so even after the demographics tilt, many of the same power brokers' progeny will still be controlling much of what America does/is.

I'm thinking that Eurocentric racism will be pretty much gone by around 2175... but not much sooner than that. What replaces it is anyone's guess.

Oh... let's not forget bigotry. Bigotry will live on well after racism is dead. It's how we're hardwired as a species. Tribalism, and all that, you know? Yep... bigotry will exist for as long as the Human Race exists.

We can't help ourselves. It's in our DNA. We needed it to survive long enough to safely return to our caves, and it's still in us now. It's basically pretty useless in modern society, but it's still powerful in influence.

_____________________

Last word: as an 'American of color,' I took to heart 3 bigazz lessons from My Parents that served me well:

1. Never stop learning. The smarter you are, the more tools you have. Read something worthwhile every single day of your life.
2. Be secure in the knowledge of your own self-worth. You were put here to make a difference- and you can only do that if you KNOW your contribution is worth something to others.

3. "Understand that you will have to be twice as smart, twice as clever, twice as capable, twice as learned, twice as motivated... to be considered half as worthy of success. It isn't fair, it isn't right... but it's the way things really are. Be ready to work your ass off even when others get to slide.

Those first two pieces of advice are good general instruction that any/every parent should give their child. The third was targeted, specific advice on how to navigate racism in America.

I'll be dead long before racism is gone from our societal construct. BUT- I'm content in the knowledge that I lived by the instructions My Parents gave me- and found a voice to repudiate it at any opportunity.

Racism is wrong for a society that claims in its founding document that 'all men are created equal.' It is wrong for a society that treats entire segments of its population as "lesser," yet places the phrase "E Pluribus Unum" on its official seals and currency. And it's weakened our society as a whole- and impeded our intellectual, moral, spiritual and cultural progress by suppressing the participation of large numbers of its citizenry.

There is much to admire about American culture, but the myopia and hubris of her ruling class have done almost as much harm as good. I yearn for that day when questions like the ones Vers asked in his OP are viewed only in a historical context. At present, they are all still too real in our present times.

And that's a cryin' shame.

I'm not a big fan of the sociological concept that "minorities can't be racist" because racism is just a specialized form of prejudice. We already have a term for institutionalized racism: institutionalized racism.

With that said, as a group, what can Blacks do to enforce their racist agenda against you? Why not let someone smarter than me explain:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc

J/C

For a long time I've mulled on sharing personal anecdotes on this subject. Some of you are privy to this information through PMs I've sent through the years. I've alluded to most of it in many of my posts in EE.

Much of my young professional life consists of working "in the trenches" (a phrase I owe to a wise individual on here) with youth in America. I've been helping young Americans realize whatever dream they seek to tackle. I'm not molding them; a good teacher doesn't mold to their ideal. A true educator lets the students develop the natural talents they see in themselves.


I got my start during university in the inner-city. One on one time helping tutor to fulfill a college requirement opened my eyes. Many of these students are victims to circumstances they couldn't control as it happened before birth. They grow up in a society with a stack put up against them. No golden bootstrap will magically fix their life. It's easy for us to say "Oh, just work harder, and don't give up!" because the majority of us have a solid support structure and safety net. Many of those living in such impoverished conditions lack any of this.

And no, welfare in its current state is not a safety net. It's meant to placate a population, so no one makes noise like Martin Luther King Jr, and Malcolm X did. But, I digress.

During the tutoring I saw an inherent nature of wanting to learn. The student, from what I was told after I finished, was ecstatic to hear he would have a tutor. We both worked hard to help his academics improve. I noticed something, though. My spring break was coming up, and I wasn't sure if I'd be in Toledo or if I'd go home to Cleveland. I told the student I may not be there next week. Well, circumstances kept me in Toledo for spring break. I show up the week I have off, and the student didn't come to school. I had a bonus opportunity after I told the student we were finished with tutoring for the year, and he wasn't there for the bonus day either. I wager that somewhere in there the student didn't come those days because I said I wouldn't be there to help tutor. Yep, one group is definitely predisposed to inherent racism...

In closing on this story: African American males are not predisposed to caucasian men. Show some care and they'll value you. Eventually a whole class of minority students will engage in great dialogue about the contrasting methods of MLK and Malcolm X.

---------------------------------------------

Presently, I serve a new minority population. This is a population who settled this country way before any europeans tried to settle. Russians and missionaries came in, settled alongside these groups, and tried to destroy their culture. Disease ran rampant among these individuals due to exposure from outsiders (small pox, etc.), missionaries violently oppressed the groups for carrying out cultural practices (Native dancing, praying to those they revere in their belief system, outlawing the spoken language), and alcohol was introduced by Russians as the locals only method of coping with death and cultural oppression due to a massive culture shock.

These times passed, missionaries learned what they did was wrong, and the Russians eventually left. Then came schools into these remote areas under the guise of "let's assimilate and erase!" everything about the group. Students were beaten for uttering any word in their native language, punished for dancing traditionally, and shipped far away from their original place of growing up to a boarding school without family or friends. This creates a huge wave of resentment due to broken promises of "We won't do that to you!" or "This way of life is better...just let me ignore that you've survived for thousands of years on tough subsistence ways of life".

Presently, things are better. Look up the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (ANCSA) for more in-depth information. There's still the same issues of poverty in many of these remote locations; it's very analogous to problems associated with poverty anywhere.

We talk about these issues as they pop up during the day. I get a lot of comments akin to "Outsiders came in and oppressed us! Life would be so much better if they didn't do that...but, you're not like them at all Mr. RocketOptimist."

Why do they see me as different from everyone else? I'm seen differently as I try to be involved in our community. I'm friends with a local family, try to take part in community events, and I never walk around with a sense of "My western ways trump your culture!".
--------------------------------------------

Now it's time to go back to your thread title, Vers.

How do we eradicate racism? I've said it once before, and I'll say it again.

Become cultured, remove any preconceived notions, realize there may be some bad history between your culture and another, participate with a culture different than your own, try to serve the impoverished, extinguish any sense of pride, and work together to move forward past old wounds while acknowledging you're trying to do that.

gage:

I understand what you're saying, but that term is a newly-created manifestation...


...and a redundancy. Because we use the term "racism" so loosely. We f'kked it up 30+ years ago, and now we have to add the term "institutionalized" to say what was already plain 40 years ago.

It's stupid. And unnecessary.

(Don't get me wrong... I'm not calling YOU stupid at all... I'm addressing the casual way way in which we use words these days...)

_________________

The difference in their individual definitions is exactly why I took such pains to make the distinction between 'racism' and 'bigotry' in my introductory statement.

I HATE the way we interchange these words in common speech. Racism and bigotry are two different things.

Your statement: "I'm not a big fan of the sociological concept that "minorities can't be racist" because racism is just a specialized form of prejudice."

...is exactly WHY I made the distinction early in my post.

You see... racism ISN'T specialized at all. It's general, and is practiced everywhere, as a matter of daily business. It's a manifstation of "the way things are" or "the way things have always been."

That's very different from your definition.

What you've actually described is the epitome of BIGOTRY: specific, targeted... and aimed at specific people in society by individuals.

If you re-read my post, you'll quickly see that I don't absolve minorities from being BIGOTS. I merely said that they can't be racists... because they don't belong to the ethnic group that is empowered to determine how society works.

God (and The Devil) is found in the details.

The minute you stop using the word 'racism' in place of 'bigotry,' my message becomes clear.

As I said initially, that distinction is very important.

Hispanics can be be beneficiaries of a racist society if they outnumber whites in their country- and have social, political, and legal policies that repress Whites. Blacks can be the same beneficiaries of a racist society if they live in a country that suppresses the White minority, too.

In both instances, the Whites in those countries can absolutely HATE the brown-skinned people who determine their quality of life, but that only makes them bigots. It doesn't make the benficiaries of a racist society. The racism in their countries is THE SYSTEM that gives an automatic, built-in advantage to citizens who are white-skinned.

By my definition of the two terms, a person can NOT be racist, but a system can.

A person who hates another based on race can be a stone-cold bigot... but still not necessarily be a member of the ruling class in a racist society.

People can't be racist. Only a system can.
EVERYONE can be a bigot. Do you see what I'm saying now?

I'll never call a bigot a racist... because the word doesn't precisely fit what they are. Words (and what they truly mean) are important.

Racism and bigotry are truly two different things. One word describes a SYSTEM. The other describes personally-held belief structures. That distinction MUST be understood, for any further discussion to take place.

Nicely said, My Dawg.

I think it's more likely that you're prejudiced, likely to use stereotypes or discriminate for whatever reason.

Racists are groups like the KKK who actually and honestly believe the white race IS superior to all others.

I think the label "racism" is often misused, but "Institutional Racism" is not entirely inaccurate because it demonstrates a belief that most blacks or Hispanics are inferior and not likely to do a good job, pay rent, pay a loan or be a good neighbor, but I don't think it assumes the white race is superior in these.

Certain races are often preferred for specific occupations, which possibly demonstrate racism, but I think a racist would believe that ONE race is superior in all things and if a certain race shows better skills at a certain task then that task is not particularly important and other races are inferior in all the important tasks.

Really Tim Wise? WOW.

Clem:

It's not a new construct. What you describe is largely denoted the "Racism = Power + Prejudice" definition of racism, first coined in 1970.

Here is why I disagree with it, and bear with me:

Prejudice by itself has no connotations to race. If a black person is prejudiced against someone who is white, we don't know what specifically. Maybe they are agist and think the white person is too old/young to be relevant to anything. Maybe the white person is religious and the black person is atheist and makes assumptions about said white person (politics/etc). We call the former ageism and the latter religious prejudice.

Some academics say "well who cares, the racism we all care about is about the power, so lets just simplify the wording." On it's face that sounds like a good idea, why not? Because language is how we communicate. If you are familiar with 1984 you know that Newspeak was a tool of those in charge to limit communication among the citizens. If we just say that minorities can only be prejudiced we aren't accurately describing why.

To wit, would a homeless white man calling a middle class black person a race inspired insult be racist? I believe he would.

Clem and Rocket absolutely killed it with their post. straight up.

Where's vers at? dude abandoned his own thread?

It's become obvious we are speaking two seperate languages on this board. One group is using words in a context they clearly don't understand. So where do we go from here?

Maybe that group feel the same way about the way you use the word? Must it be a 1 way street for understanding to take place?

How do people understand another person's positions? Well, how do people learn a new language? By exposure to the other language, and by repetition. 2 people learn each other's language by working at understanding. It is an imperfect process, and in some cases it will never bring about perfect understanding, but maybe perfect understanding is not necessary for communication to still take place. Maybe we need to just accept that some people will have different understanding from our own regarding certain words, and try to communicate anyway, instead of allowing that to stop communication.

I agree. We must always keep both an open mind as well as dialogue.

Very well stated, YTown...

I have my own definition of racism. However, I wanted to find out what so called smart people think is racism and how they define it. I started with well known race justice writer and educator, Debby Irving. http://debbyirving.com/qa/are-prejudice-bigotryand-racism-the-same-thing/

As a upper class white woman growing up in Massachusetts, she did not realize what racism was. She discussed how segregation of housing options, economic issues, and racial bigotry led to what she calls the "White Elephant" in the room, White privilege. Basically her point is a difference in power structure in the country based in economics is the basis for racism in the USA today. Whites cannot help it. They are privileged and they cannot overcome it without giving up economic power.

I felt Debby was a bit melodramatic so I sought other sources for the definition of racism. I came across the democratic underground website. It is a useful website to know how some political slants think on issues. I came across this article. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025418002 It is a straight forward article. I will summarize how the democrat underground website defines the terms prejudice, bigotry, and racism. They do have distinct characteristics to each.

Prejudice is basically making a judgement of a person before you know all the facts. Making a judgement based on characteristics which do not necessarily equate to the judgement made. For example, you may come across a group of young black men walking and you make a judgement that they are a threat. When in reality they could be marines on leave. Or you may see a group of young teens with their pants hanging low and their boxers showing, they may be local college kids who are very intelligent and socially conscience yet their attire gives you a different view of them. Prejudice can be based on a whole litany of things.

Bigotry is a point of view that is intolerant based solely on a prejudice that may not be true. An example, Jews are all rich, so why do I care what people do to them. Or perhaps Christians are a majority in the USA, therefore they cannot be oppressed by a minority.

Racism is the big one. According to the democrat underground website, it is prejudice based solely on race and a belief that one race is superior to others. When you hear of racism today in the media, they are generally discussing institutional racism. Institutional racism is when an institution such as a corporation or government bestows or withholds benefits, or grants preferential treatment for a group based solely on their race. If Apple Corp, hired only immigrant workers because of their race and willingness to work for less money, it may be seen as a racist policy by this definition. Another example could be, when a state institution such as a university that uses race as a characteristic for admission or hiring, such as affirmative action.

Now my belief is simple, I believe the government has a vested interest in dividing the citizenry and in creating extra-Constitutional rights for specific groups. The government acts in a bigoted way when it treats some citizens different such as the Tea Party people being treated horribly by the IRS, the Justice Department not prosecuting known criminals, or enforcing the laws equally such as in immigration policy. The solution is not to encourage more government involvement in the lives of citizens, but less. The inner cities are crumbling. Perhaps you can discuss how Cleveland has declined in population, wealth, and has become like every other large city in the USA, dependent upon the State to care for them.

I abandoned it because y'all are not even attempting to think outside the box and look for solutions. It's the same old stuff that's been said thousands and thousands of times.

Additionally, y'all are arguing over word choice. Are you kidding me???? That was not the point of the thread.

I'll bow out until someone actually wants to move forward w/their thinking. Have fun.

I read that as: you're full of crap, got called out on it, and got schooled as to why it's still a major issue in America, and have no rebuttal.

Okay Swish. You're right.

Typically I would say I'm not right.

But I absolutely am in this case, as evidence that you can't refute one single point in my long post.

You try to dismiss it as people not looking at different angles. When we are, it's just not the response you was hoping for.

I told you before, don't get into this discussion if you aren't willing to go blow for blow with me. Don't start his discussion if you aren't willing to roll up your sleeves and dig deep into this topic.

If you want to debate and share your opinions, please do. It's your thread after all.

But dont act like minorities on this board aren't processing different angles. We absolutely are, so far, you seem to be he only one who ISNT thinking in different angles.

If that's noth the case, prove me wrong.

You guys are NOT even talking about the topic I was trying to generate. You all fell right back in line w/the same old discussion.

That's fine. You can all talk to your heart's content about it ....AGAIN.

I just won't participate. If someone is ever willing to take the next step in the thought process, I will gladly converse w/them. And it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO W/BEING RIGHT OR WRONG!!!!