DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... The Implications of Racism

but when you have guys like Riley saying it's all a government conspiracy, or 40 acting like we don't have an valid points, even you can see the issues that causes, because a LOT people think like him. maybe not the majority, but enough.


There it is! Twisting it into a race thing when it is only a Swish thing.

A Swish thing? Swishism?

I'mma make that into an actual thing. A religion, and smoke weed, and not hire whites nor serve them my products. cause you know "Religious Freedom" and all that.

And our Constitution "Guarantees it."

I do think it's good practice to actually understand a study, to question its source/funding and not just read the abstracts but without actually seeing them it's impossible for me to pass judgement on them one way or another. I wouldn't automatically assume they were bunk.

Regarding leeway:

Rush Limbaugh. I never listened to him regularly and I know he has said his fair share of dumb/controversial stuff, but anyway a while back he advanced an argument that was something to the effect of, blacks are often better athletes than whites because slave masters bred the strongest males and females, or something like that. I don't really have an opinion on this, it's a complicated and touchy subject, but he was fired for these comments.

Earlier in this thread you wrote:


How is this any better than what Rush Limbaugh said? Heck, Stephen A. Smith can say even more provocative things and ESPN does not seem to mind.

Danny Ferry? He was pressured into taking an indefinite leave of absence from the Hawks for reading a scouting report that had a pejorative/negative comment about Africans. He didn't even write it! Maybe he should not have read it, but can you honestly say that a black G.M. would have been under the same scrutiny?

I don't have issues with minorities. I'm not sure if that 'you' was directed at me specifically or just 'you' in general. I'm comfortable knowing that I treat people well and for who they are and not how they look. Friends and colleagues would back me up on that and I don't feel the need to elaborate too much more on that but one thing I will say: I did date a brown-skinned woman for almost two years. I know this in and of itself is not saying much, but she was really a beautiful girl and amazing person, and is still one of my friends to this day. However, people did not really treat her the same as many of my other girlfriends. Just in general, many odd or even dirty looks, many people were just not as welcoming to her and it was (almost) never her ethnicity; there was always some other lame excuse as to why someone wasn't fond of her. I am posting this because I know you have made comments to that effect being the recipient of that type of behavior. It is really kind of sad, as I said before, I wish things were not like this but I do understand you have some valid points with this being one of them.

Clem, there is about a 1% chance of this thread being productive or addressing what my intentions were.

The first reply to my post was by CHS. He said something like........"Ughh.........more drivel."

I then got a bunch of stuff about the correct terminology of racism, prejudice, bias, etc. Like what you call it really matters.

I am not sure if I will respond again and will even be afraid to look back, because every time I try to have an intelligent conversation on here, it digresses into the same old crap that has been addressed over and over.

But, I like you Clem. We are old friends. So, check out these two lines from my original post as to what my intent was:



Do I have to spell it out any further? I can actually give you guys the exact question I have in mind, but a good teacher is not the Sage on the Stage, he/she is the Guide on the Side.

Let me give you one more clue. Some people ripped me because they did not want me to speak of Farmer whiffing on not drafting Teddy and drafting JM instead. They said........."how do we fix it moving forward?"

Does that help?

Do we want to keep rehashing the negatives? Do we want to keep highlighting what is ugly? Do we only concentrate on the negatives? Do we want to create a greater divide?

Or, do we want to try and fix the problem w/out assigning blame?

I can tell you this. I have a mixed bunch of students. My first Math and Science block is almost all black. One white kid. Two biracial kids. We have ZERO racial problems.

My second block is 80% black and 20% white. No biracial kids. We have ZERO racial problems.

The kids are better at this than the adults. And we talk about these issues all the time. We resolve problems rather than build up negative emotions by pointing out the flaws of particular groups.

Does that help?

Aaargghhh............I shouldn't have posted that. I just read what I said. I don't think people will get what I'm saying. It will just lead to more battles.

For what it's worth: This isn't your classroom. You aren't the "sage on the stage", nor are you the "guide on the side".

We aren't teenagers. You don't get to start a topic and then quit because people aren't agreeing with you. You don't get to scold us for not thinking as you do - or, you don't get to "boss" people around on here like I think you might do in your classroom.

Starting a topic - then quitting because...........because.........kinda childish really. My mom was a teacher, then tutor, for well over 40 years. She's been retired for a number of years, but even in family conversations, she still struggles to realize she's talking to adults that form their own opinions, and she can't go all "teacher" on us, as in; Tell us what to do, when to do it, and how to do it.

We have to acknowledge the wrongs, and move past them. Too often people glance over the realities of the past. We only move forward by acknowledging mistakes, working twice as hard to show we care, and move forward with the other group together.

People argue that minorities have to work twice as hard. I think this also means we the majority have to work and show twice as hard that we really do care.

Like I said...............impossible!

Too many egos, not enough understanding.

Or, 1 ego with no ability to control opinions like in his classroom, so he gets mad.

I don't ever control opinions in the classroom. Did you even read what I wrote? Nah, you just look to insult.

I tried, Clem. It had no prayer of working.

Like I said previously, looked to me like Vers was looking for some kind of refonciliation.

So, although you try to control opinions here, you want me to believe you DON'T do that in the classroom?

Dude, your posts are out there for everyone to read. You try to control, and when you can't, you get upset.

We aren't your classroom. We aren't reliant on you for a grade. You remind me so much of my mom. (retired teacher that still struggles if I, or anyone, disagrees with her).

Ted, seriously bro, I'm not that smart. That word is too big I dunno what that means.

You are that smart. The suffix "tion" means........the act of.

Look at the root word. I'm not sure, but it's probably Greek or Latin, which is where most of our words originated from.

It kinda looks like reconcile, right?

He was trying to say that I was trying to reconcile the situation. I like Ted, so I am presuming that he wasn't saying that it in a negative manner, but that he was saying that I was trying to get us to all reconcile our differences and move into a mode of trying to repair or reconcile our differences. I think he is saying that it would be better for us to all work together and understand one another than it is to harbor ill intentions towards one another.

I think Mr. Ted is a pretty smart guy.

have you tried google? It takes 2 seconds.

Don't ever say your not smart, you shouldn't belittle yourself you are intelligent and sometimes be dropping some knowledge.

then instead of throwing your hands up and bouncing, you should probably explain your point of view in detail?

that will work wonders.

I'm not smart. I just got some experience that can be shared with the majority of our topics.

i barely made it into the military bro. barely.

You guys cool it with the pick-me-uppers. i know my limits, i'm comfortable and accept them. I find other ways to work the hustle.

I think that both are legitimate questions.

Is there racism of all kinds in this world today?

I think that the answer has to be yes.

Are there actions that take place in today's world that have little or no racial impetus, but which are looked at by some as being racist?

I think that answer also has to be yes.

Is racism one of the things is difficult for some people to see and understand, and for others to ignore and get past?

I think that answer is also yes.

Do some people see racism as the primary factor in some events, while others see race only as a coincidental factor that has no bearing in the overall event?

This also has to be a yes.

We have people who look at the same event and see completely and totally different motivations for those involved. I know that I have a hard time seeing race as the major motivating factor today. Could it be a factor somewhere down the line? I guess. However, I have a hard time in thinking of someone saying to themselves, "If I interact with a (race) person, and this happens, then I will do this ...... but if I interact with (race) person, then I will do this other thing instead." Does it happen? I know it does. I know that there are people who are racists through and through, and others who have aspects to their character that make them more comfortable with someone who looks most like them. Is that second person a racist? I don't know. i would like all people to be colorblind, but I know that is not really possible. I also think that people look at how people act as much as the color of their skin and make judgments about them in a split second. One person may see a guy who looks like a biker and think "I better beware this guy", awhile others would think nothing of it. Some people would see a Black guy with saggy pants and gold teeth in his mouth and make one snap judgment about him, and others would not. Some people would see a guy dressed in a suit and make a snap judgment about him.

It happens. Is that racially motivated, or it is lifestyle motivated?

There are a lot of really hard questions regarding race. I try to be as colorblind as I possibly can, but I admit that I see a guy in droopy drawers, and I think "Man, that looks stupid". The person in questions can be Black or White, but I think that way of wearing ones clothing is just idiotic looking. Others think it's cool. Does that make me a racist? I don't think so, because I think it's a horrible look no matter who is dressed in that manner.

Anyway, I think that a lot of racism is brushed aside, and I also think that a lot of things seen as racism by some actually have no racial backbone whatsoever. However, it is extremely difficult to know what's what.

Don't be colorblind. Acknowledge the rich cultural history behind every individual.

I meant as far as my interactions with people.

I think there might be a difference between the races in that blacks probably feel a justifiable need to talk about it.

White people have any leeway they want to talk about it, but I doubt that most would feel it's necessary because they don't have to deal with it. Similar to the idea that I don't have to worry about gun restrictions because I don't own a gun. (An anology. Not attempting to hi-jack)

If someone is white and they want to claim racism doesn't exist or racism is a money making scam or that whites are the actual victims or want to believe the completely idiotic idea that if you're white and admit there's racism then you're automatically an "apologist" then you're probably going to get involved in a conversation that will attempt to show why your claim is wrong and you may be uncomfortable when attempting to support your claim.

jmho

Education doesn't make you intelligent, IMHO intelligence come from experience, wisdom, critical thinking, logical thinking. It's not from a book, I have my bachelors in web development and my MBA and I know I have learned more from actual working experiences and reading other peoples blog then my formal training.

This is a great segway for this thread, the education system is broken, more minorities are in these big city school districts that are failing which is creating this system where many minorities will never generate wealth and basically stuck with low paying jobs with no possible way for advancement.

When you say you barley got into the the military that is because of your education experince or lack of education you received in Cleveland Public Schools. Had you went to schools in Solon, you would have a complete different education experience. The majority of people are average intelligence which means everyone has the capacity to learn no matter who they are.

Over the years I have seen you jump out of your chair to yell RACISM! RACIST! BIGOT! etc many times. You would get yourself in such a dither over the issue while the Black people on the board were not offended and they would often try to defuse your over reaction. It became obvious to many that you were the classic apologetic white person who's greatest fear was that you wouldn't fight hard enough for something even Blacks thought you overreacted too.
This never helped race relations, you did more damage than good by stifling conversation and raising tensions like all apologetic whites tend to do. You never seemed to realize it was not all about you, it was about people of different races trying to communicate.
Right back at you.

All your details were fun and all to read. However, my reason for asking the question as I did was not to spark a debate about details. Details are were one can lose sight of the actual issue at hand.

The reason I asked the question the way that I asked it was to cause one to think on racism and race not on details. Consider this as another way to ask the question. Is our society better served by discussing racism? Has racism grown or weakened due to the national discussion? Are race relations better or worse for the national discussion? I know the answers but I am not sure everyone knows them and even cares to ask them. Instead, they jump head first into the kiddie pool.

Racism, better yet, prejudice, is usually not a trait one changes without some extreme incident causing them to change their ways.

As DC said, most people have come to control it, and hide it under the surface, but it is, and most likely will always be part of them.

We are not born prejudice, we learn it through our experiences, from our mentors, parents, role models and friends. Which is why I believe that it will slowly dissolve from our society as each generation is more tolerant than the next, and it's the previous generation does a better job of controlling their prejudices, as to not pass them to the next generation.

It will never be fully removed from society, but it will be the extreme exception, rather than regular occurrence.

We can debate and talk until we all die from exhaustion, and the best most of us will ever be able to do is be in control of our prejudices, know when they are affecting our decision making, and do a better job of stopping ourselves and making the right decision based on the other person being a just another person as we are.

Sorry you took that so personal.

No you are not. Only Riley and I spoke those words and most of it was me. You can play if you want but I think you are just being one who says "someone said" instead of manning up and replying to who you want to insult directly.

Hopefully you will understand, with respect to your forced rape among slaves point, that I'm skeptical. I have no idea what the statute of limitations is on "getting over something".. but we are talking about things that happened 8, 9, 10 generations ago. That's great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, grandparents...

My grandfathers fought the Germans and Japanese 2 generations ago and I trust Germans and Japanese folks.. I'm already over it.

Muslims blew up my country when I was in my 30s and I've already been told I should get over it and generally trust them, just not the radical ones.

So I'm not going to call your point silly or say that things like that didn't exist but when will it be done? 50 years from now? 100 years from now? When will slavery in the 1700 and 1800s stop being the reason for crap that's going on today?

Probably with the dissolving of all the institutions that were founded on slavery or the institutions that still are racist.

Such as? I don't argue that there are probably some such things still floating around on the periphery, but what do you see as the worst (and biggest) offenders?

Well said DC. I was thinking just that this morning.

Slavery was so long ago I have no clue about the thinking back then. Heck some of my ancestors could have owned slaves.

One thing I know for sure is if they tried to bring Black Slavery back today, I would be the first to hide Blacks and the first to fill my attic and basement with Black folks until those who started it were no more.

All this crap over our skin color. pfft, lame.

Why is "white apologist" a valid label?

Many laws were created, implemented and accepted by the general population as result from the slavery era that dramticaly affected blacks and created this system of oppression that is still feeling the affects to this day.

The Jim Crow laws ended in 1964. Which is after Madonna was born. That was only 1-2 generations ago.

j/c


This young man has an accurate view of race and traffic stops IMHO.

Will Stack after a Police Stop

A white apologist is a white person who feels bad about what white people did to black people during the slavery years as if their friends and neighbors did those things to black people today.

A white apologist may have feelings of not having done enough during the civil rights movement that they try to make up for it today by being the champions of pointing out perceived racism in every black/white conversation. So over the top are they that it is like the witch hunt trials of days gone by.

A white apologist will yell racism, racist, and bigotry long before a white or black person in conversation will even think of it. Now the conversation turns defensive for the white person and the black person wonders if he missed something. White apologists do more to harm race relations in this way than help.

A white apologist is mostly concerned with himself than racism. How will I be perceived? Do they know I am the champion of protecting black people?
I see white apologists marching at the head of a crowd, leading a chant well beyond what the black marchers are doing, like "What do we want, dead cops", "When do we want them, Now!"


I often see the same scenario when it comes to white apologists in terms of the plight of the american indian.

I am honestly taken back and don't know how to respond to this....

j/c

While I'm pretty sure this will draw the ire of many, here I go anyway.

I'm one who certainly understands that racism still exists. I fully understand that there's still work to be done. However, in the same breath, I also see no fairness in the other direction. Things that never seem to be said?

A small minority of people in the U.S. EVER owned a slave. The vast majority of white America never owned a slave. So the central theme seems to target a problem that mainly existed with a small minority of the country when it comes to slavery.

Abolitionist Movement. This was a huge movement enacted mainly by whites who stood up against slavery. They fought for the end to slavery at all costs. They helped fund the freeing of slaves from the south.

Well over 100,000 Union soldiers lost their life during the Civil War. Estimates of well over 200,000 total Union deaths.

All I'm really trying to say here, is we as a nation have taken steps to end the atrocity of slavery and the lack of Civil Rights for all of our citizens. It hasn't been an us verses the thing. It has been a united front of both blacks and whites that have helped change things to while not a perfect situation, a far better situation than any time in our nations past.

Maybe it's time we recognized this part of what has happened as much as the negative side of where we are now.

I could go on. It was a large white political contingent that helped write and pass the The Civil Rights Act.

What percentage of white people talking about racism are apologists do you think?

That is a very fair point with regard to the deficit blacks face in trying to achieve economic and social equality...

But that's not the point that Swish made, his point was quite direct, black women don't trust black men, to this day, because when they were slaves, black men were forced to rape black women.