DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny Manziel...the return...

I hope that Johnny Manziel can prove everyone wrong, and work his way back into the starting QB conversation. I hope he improves and turns into the player we drafted. I want to be wrong because as of right now I have absolutely no faith in Manziel and I don't think he deserves to be a Cleveland Brown.

The kid was drafted in the 1st round of the NFL to play QB.

Quarterback and football in general needs to be your entire life and this kid decided he would rather party and take his rookie season for granted. He admitted all of this. He dicked over the fans, the city and his teammates and because of this I'm no longer on the bandwagon.

I hope he proves me wrong and is able to win back the team and the fans because more than anything I want this team to win games.

Welcome back Johnny... welcome to chance number #last.

If you get traded, I wish you the best.. if you stick around, I hope you have your head on straight and are prepared to do what it takes.

While the team is saying all of the right things about putting Johnny the person ahead of Johnny the football player, that only last so long.. in the end, this team is about winning football games, it's not a public service rehab facility... in my opinion that team has met or exceeded its obligation in giving you chances to get your life together. If you screw this one up, I will absolutely support their right to send you packing.

Have to admit, when I heard rehab I figured within a few days I'd also hear "Failed drug test" or "Suspension looming" or "arrest for possession of..."

I figured it was more of a setup for reducing punishment. I hope this was 100% his idea to address his problems. That is usually a good sign.

My opinion on addiction: The key is to stop craving. Stop wanting. If you still want to get drunk, I think you'll lose. If you still crave the sensation of a cigarette filling your lungs, I think you'll end up going back. Its all about not wanting it at all, even being repulsed by it. Not the addiction, not the hangover, the actual thing you enjoy about the substance. I know a lot of people that say: "I wish I could drink one or I'd love to join you, but I can't." They usually fail at some point. The people that learn/grow to hate their high or euphoria, are the ones that succeed.

He also told Coach Landry..."play me or trade me." And I know he wasn't being a bad boy, considering he just came off 5 years of active duty in the U.S. Navy he knew he had a limited NFL window to prove his worth.

One is an Annapolis Naval Academy graduate, the other was a spoiled rich kid, party boy who has been coddled his entire life... they couldn't hardly be more different as people, but yes, the playing style has similarities.

Unfortunately, at the professional level, success takes more than talent... it takes all those other character traits, too.

Last chance. Gordon is on strike 5 or 6 right?

The obvious difference is that if 2013 Josh Gordon played like 2014 Johnny Manziel.. He wouldn't be in the league anymore..

Exactly. We know that Gordon can get it done. WE don't know that about Manziel

Total BS

The obvious difference is Gordon has been suspended multiple times, and JM, hasn't.

Keep telling yourself that BS...Gordon didn't get it done in 2014 did he?

And the obvious similarity is that both of them would rather have the life outside of football and both of them cannot be counted on by the team or really, the entire city of Cleveland.

IMO, arguing the logistics of JF and Gordon is like arguing which episode of Ancient Aliens made you wonder the most. It's pointless.

I wasn't referring to how many chances the Browns might give him, I was referring to how many chances I'm willing to give him...

The only BS around here is your inability to see what we both were saying.

Think if it this way:

1. Gordan has shown that he can play in this league. I NEVER said it was last year did I. But he did prove to be capable.

2. Manziel hasn't shown that at all.

gordon screwed up multiple times, letting his team down.

manziel didnt try hard enough, and let his team down for 6 quarters when he finally got the chance.

the big difference, IMO, is that manziel was willing to lock himself away from the rest of the world for 10 weeks to try and get himself better, so he could prove himself to this team. gordon stopped by rehab for a week and decided it wasnt for him.





theres a bit of a difference. whether that translates to manziel ever becoming a successful QB, that remains to be seen. but i will give him a ton of credit for recognizing his demons, and addressing them head on, on a quest to become a better man.

You have 2-5 WR's on the field at any one time. They are a part of a unit. You only have one QB on the field and he is your teams leader. Big difference.

I don't know, I get the points you're making but I just view them both as potential, and as Pettine said, you get sick of using the word potential.

It's not about how many chances player x got or what player y did that player x didn't. Just keep it real, they both failed and let more than themselves and the team down. Arguing over what two piles of poop stinks less and why is pointless.

The only argument to be made is can you trust either of them to get us where we need to go? The answer to that, no matter how you wish to hack it up, is NO. JF in rehab and Gordons good year is all worthless crap as of right now. What matters is their contributions on the field, which we know Gordon won't even sniff the field and I doubt any of us be surprised if JF has another year on the sidelines watching from the bench.

Done speculating the could be, show me it or get the *F* off the team and the city of Cleveland.

All JMO

j/c:

Depressing thread in regards to human sympathy and empathy.

Why don't the Browns hire some guy to basically hang out/babysit him... Heck it can't cost that much... $45,000 to basically be with him anytime he's outside of berea to make sure he is making smart choices...

Ain't that the truth.

I can't wait until actual football returns.

Yeah, me too.

Listening to the logic of why we should certain players depresses me in regards to humanity. The prevailing logic is what can this guy do for "me."

I've been down on Manziel, but I think I will root even harder for him now.

I hope that they have someone to help him at all times, a contact that he can call at any hour of the day or night if he needs help. I hope that they provide face to face counselling sessions as part of his therapy and his attempt at straightening u his life.

I am disappointed at how some act towards his struggles, but I also understand that they are disappointed in him, and don't want to play the "fool me twice" game we played with Gordon. Speaking solely for myself, I hope that he has overcome these issues that plagued him last year,. and that he is ready to take a huge step forward this coming year ... and that he becomes what we all hoped he would become when we drafted him. (the good side, obviously. Many, including me, thought that he was a real boom/bust guy, and I hope we get that boom this year)

Isn't that the job of the director of player engagement or whatever it's called? Maybe we should just fire that person and rehire aaron shea.

• AA meetings is a room full of people to help him at all times.
• You are encouraged to get phone numbers of people you can call at any hour of the day or night. By now he should have close to a dozen people more than willing to fullfill that role. Everyone will do that. One of the basic premises of the program is that the best way to not drink is to help someone else not drink. With a pocket full of numbers it's impossible to not be able to reach someone.
• Again, meetings provide the face to face "councelling". It's not councelling per se, in the usual sense where one person tells another what to do or is just there for listening.
• I've gone to many people with a problem only to never have a conversation about my problem at all, but instead talk about their issues. It's amazing how helpful that is and how easy it is to relate to their experience for enlightenment as opposed to focusing your own problem.

For those who never had a problem with addiction they'll never understand the level of commitment AA members have with each other toward the common goal of keeping each other sober. For those who have been there, they know exactly what I'm talking about. And though I say "AA", not knowing JF's problem, I'm certain he's going through a 12-step program developed by the original AA founders.

All he has to do is use the tools he has already been given to avoid the "stinkin' thinkin'" that tells him he's ok now.

yea because he did such a great job with gordon right. maybe we should just draft better? what a radical thought huh?

IMO, Gordon = helpless. But yeah, draft better. That's why I don't want anything to do with Randy Gregory, that Beckham WR or anyone else that has red flags.

Got enough losers on the team already.

I hope he does well. I would like to see him make all the so called experts eat their words.

i felt that way, thought high character guys were the way to the promised land. for the past 10 years i thought cinci to be fools, drafting a bunch of thugs.

then, from the bottom of the division each year beside us, all of a sudden they are now a playoff team each year.



i swear we're just damned if we do, damned if we dont.


but yeah, realistically, dont draft thugs, selfish idiots, entitled assholes, etc. however, if youre going to, atleast have your criminal teammates be defensive guys lol. i dont mind a defensive player with a mean streak

Armonty Bryant a prime example of that. Red flags in college, shortly after coming here had that DUI. Now what is there to say about him? Going into his second year as a troubled player with no issues.

Pretty sure he's publicly stated he's clean and dry from his substance abuse issues. If every bad project or whatever unfolded like that. He's one player that most people are excited about (in a very positive fashion) going into his second season.

To many of these guys, the NFL was a dream, not a goal. By that I mean it is what they wanted, but it isn't what they worked toward. Their talent got them through high school, their talent got them into college, their talent got them noticed by the NFL scouts.

Up to that point they still had not focused on what it would take to get to the NFL, they didn't truly know the commitment or maturity needed.

Couple parties on the weekend at college, a joint here or there, what's it matter? Well to the average kid who will graduate and enter the workforce, not much. But to someone headed to the NFL a lot, but by the time they see or realize it, the damage is done, the addictions are there, and the damaging friendships are formed.

Remember what it was like when we were in our early 20's, and someone told you "you shouldn't do that".? Most of us just said "OK", then went about our way, doing what we wanted anyway.

What the NFL really needs is a system where these kids enter the league and they get paired up with a seasoned veteran for the first year, someone who checks on them daily, hangs out with them, leads them by example, explains the traps of money and fame, someone like an AA sponsor who they can call at any time.

I'm sure there are some who get this from their teams, but maybe the NFL needs to make it a program that all rookies get. It's not only the player reputation at stake, but the teams and the NFLs as well.

I'm thinking "race to the bottom continues" reading this thread. Somewhere beyond the strikes against, the second chances, the wishing well, you still need to win some games.

I'm supportive. And very focused. And less forgiving. Win.

I don't want to make excuses for these guys, but I think we look at their physical size and the money they earn and somehow, (i'm absolutly guilty of this) we forget they are 21,22,23 or maybe 24 years old.

I did stupid stuff at that age... I'm pretty sure I'd have done even dumber things had someone put a couple of Million in my account.

With some, you can reach them and get them to understand, with others, It's a lost cause If/Until they figure it out for themselves.

j/c

To me there are two aspects of this issue. One is the human side. The other is the business side. From the human side I believe the vast majority are hopeful JFF has a good recovery and does well. As human beings I highly doubt many of us wish him any ill will.

Now we come to the talent side. Even if JFF has a complete recovery, there's actually, to this point, no clear indication his talent will transfer to the NFL level. There is a point where we must differentiate JFF the man from JFF the NFL QB. He looked both slow and rushed when he was on the field. He left the pocket far too early and had a QBR of 5.1. Will sobriety in and of itself fix all of that?

As for the business side it is a pure numbers game that precludes the human side. One would have to look at the odds of recovery in the first try. Those odds aren't good. One would have to believe that recovery and recovery alone will solve the ills we saw on the field in his performance last year. Which I for one am not convinced of.

I'm a Browns fan first and a total 180 turn around by JFF would be the very best thing that could happen for the Browns. That would be my utmost hope. However, looking at the odds of a first time attempt at recovery and the physical limitations I saw on the field last year, I simply believe the odds are very low of that happening.

Yep, posters here are still hanging their hats on the too often suspended token smokin Gordon and his return while Manziel is a bust largely due to poor oline performances and just a poor offense in general over the 6 qtr's he played, (Including Josh Gordon's poor performances.). Please note: the other two Clev. QB's were suckin it just as bad, before and after JF had his starts. I know we need that viable NFL QB and all but many here act as if the rest of the offense (mainly the oline) had no hand in the poor performances at all.

I wonder if the physical limitations are a combination of two things: a) his lack of preparedness and b) this notion that many fans thought he'd be able to replicate his wild scrambling ways in the NFL.

If he prepares better, and fans don't hold him to a Vick-esque standard when it comes to scrambling ability, would we view the "physical" limitations differently?

I don't recall hearing about physical limitations in practice sessions. He didn't appear to have any in the Buffalo game either. He actually showed a fairly strong arm when he got his feet set.

I just wonder how much of this is due to not having his head on straight and an unrealistic expectation of him continuing his wild west ways in the NFL. Other than height, does he really have physical limitations? Keep in mind, most of the best QBs in the NFL aren't outrunning the defense either.

Just some thoughts. I think the best possible scenario for the Browns is we keep our picks, draft 10 year Pro Bowlers, and Manziel becomes the ultimate underdog story.

I believe that could certainly be a part of it. I do believe it would be reasonable that when you evaluate a QB's skill set, you would believe that his strengths would transfer to the NFL. I'm not saying to the extent it did in college, but when you're his size, I do believe you would think the things he does to compensate for that should be a weapon in his arsenal. Much like Russel Wilson's did.



I believe if you limit your expectations of his scrambling ability, his skill set overall would be something you would consider to be diminished over what you thought you were getting when he was drafted.



The main thing I do remember is that it seemed he went off the play calls in practice and used his scrambling abilities to do so. But I too saw the arm strength and saw reason for hope in the Buffalo game.



I believe if you can transform him from what he was into what you now describe, you are describing a pocket QB. While it's not impossible it's also nothing close to what he's ever been in the past. It's not what was advertised to us when he was drafted and would take a huge effort to ever accomplish. Once again I refer to the odds of that happening.



That would be wonderful. I see you've watched the movie Rudy.lol

I agree completely. If there were video cameras around when I was 18-22, then yikes lol!

PS on the Armonty post, I meant going into his "third season". Lol whoops!

Look at who was at the Texas Rangers game tonight. . .



He's free!

At least he was drinking Ozarka water.