DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... The Implications of Racism

Man, amazing posts by Clem, DC, and Florida. You guys are all over it. Clem, I know you don't want to run for public office, but man, I would vote for you in a heartbeat. You are so freaking intelligent. You blow me away w/your knowledge.

Other guys-------can we keep this thread about solutions rather than concentrating on the 1940s and 1950s or talking about getting on a bus w/a bunch of black people.

We all know that things were really unfair back in the day and that racism/prejudice/bias still exists, but there are all kinds of threads that deal w/that. I want THIS PARTICULAR thread to center on how do we fix the problem. Is that cool?

Look, a dumb ass like me can't offer all the great solutions that intelligent guys like Clem, DC, and Florida can. But, that's okay.......I can certainly add that I would never judge all black people because one black person robbed my daughter. I can certainly say that I don't think all cops are idiots because a handful shot black people. I can certainly say that I can judge each person as an individual and not be biased just because the color of their skin, religious beliefs, gender, sexual preference, etc.

What if each of us who is reading this thread goes out tomorrow and makes a point of doing something kind for someone who is of a different skin color? What if we did that every day for a week? Two weeks. The rest of our lives? Would it help? Would it be like the Coke commercials? Hell no, but it sure would help. We don't have to be politically savvy. We don't have to have political influence. We need guys like the three I mentioned earlier and true politicians to buy in. You and I, all the hell we need to do is to go out of our way not to assign blame and work to be a better humanitarian. Be more understanding of the other side. Don't dwell on being a victim. Work to improve the world.

I wanna go back to the politicians. Why do you think Child Labor ended? Why were the original unions formed. Why were housing codes written and enforced? Why were labor laws adopted? Why were fire escapes mandated in high rises?

The answer is the power of the people. People took pictures of injustices. People wrote poems about the situation. Authors wrote books like The Jungle to educate the masses about child labor and the horrific conditions in factories. People congregated and gave impassioned speeches about how unjust big business was. And the politicians took notice. They would not win an election vs a new candidate who promised reforms.

Our country sucks in some aspects. Which country doesn't? But, the great thing about our country is that if we unite, the public does indeed have a voice.

Guys, I say we make a concentrated effort to unite as one. Will everyone join? Hell no. But, if enough of us make noise that the races should come together, than it will freaking happen! Guaranteed. Things are so much better now than they were in the past, but these latest stories are a threat to us moving forward as a united nation.

Reach out and help someone unlike you. Don't follow along when someone of your own color disses blacks for rioting. Don't follow along when someone says that whites all hate blacks. Do any of you think Clem is a rioter? Do you think I am prejudice? I hate generalizations! I hate stereotypes.

It starts w/each of us. First and foremost.......if we all make a concentrated effort to be judge each individual as an individual, this country will automatically be a better place to live in.

Part of the solution means looking back at ugly history. Completely ignoring all the past, especially as to why people feel a certain way, is a HUGE part of the problem.

I'm not saying anyone is necessarily responsible for things in the past. But, we're ALL responsible for making a concerted effort together! Even martin Luther Kings acknowledged the past. This is what you're missing, Vers.

A wise individual up here once wrote "acknowledge the past history, but move forward together to avoid repeating the same mistakes". I'll take his word for it.

I think the point is that if we only go so far as acknowledging the past or how much better it is now or how bad it still is, if the discussion stops there then nothing is solved.

We all know the past. Not much to be gained by discussing that. We all know it's much better now, but problems still exist. Not much positive progress moving forward is accomplished by discussing that either.

A solution is needed but discussing any of that stuff is not moving forward with a solution. To take it to it's most basic start, the idea of each of us, to a man, take the effort to treat everyone else as we would like to be treated is a very good start beginning at the most elemental level. We don't need the government to help us do that.

To quote an astronaut, if we all do this small thing of treating everyone we meet with respect then it is, "One small step for [each] man, one giant leap for mankind."

You miss one and you don't vote.

There are a few trick questions on there.

Not a very good example of humanity on display there.

I don't want to respond to the needless "naive" remark (but I guess I just did) because you answered honestly with valid points.

I think by admitting that there's racism doesn't mean ALL black people are victims without fault and I would hope that wouldn't be assumed.

I could try to provide reasons of why the behaviors you listed-and more-could be justified, but they shouldn't be justified. They're BAD behaviors.

I do hope those behaviors could be more easily identified as bad and remedied, as well as behaviors by other races, by addressing all the symptoms of racism.

I keep saying that admitting racism exists doesn't mean white people are racists, but I think it should also often be stated that it's OUR problem, meaning EVERYBODY.

Speaking of history, I'd like to ask everyone when slavery was abolished in the United States.

Some may say it was the Emancipation Proclamation, which would be wrong. Lincoln may have made an EO saying slaves are now free but the South just ignored it, so to the common slave in the South, it meant nothing. Some may say it was the Reconstruction Amendments, but that is also false. The 13th amendment is regarded as the "slavery abolition" amendment but it has a loophole where if someone is convicted of a crime they can become a slave. This led to rampant convictions (especially during cotton picking season etc) for silly things like vagrancy.

So there we laws on the books to prevent slavery, but it went un-enforced for a long time. Teddy Roosevelt even thought to enforce the laws in 1903, but when it was revealed just how disruptful it would be to the South, they decided to close the book on it. It wasn't until Pearl Harbor that the US Gov't enforced the federal laws on peonage, because it was bad propaganda against the Axis, and with the country economy shifted to wartime efforts it was less disruptive to the economy.

It can be argued that treatment of blacks was WORSE during reconstruction because at least before the civil war you owned them, so you didn't want them to die. It meant you had to buy another one. With slaves being provided by the state for rent, they lived in much worse conditions and died more easily.

TL;DR - Slavery in America ended the week after the bombing of Pearl Harbor.

I probably killed the thread because I mentioned personal accountability. Oh well, it was worth a shot.



I am sorry if I wasn't clear. We most certainly should acknowledge the past. We need to learn from the past so the same mistakes don't happen again.

If you go back to my OP, you will see that I presented some arguments why others could feel slighted. Believe me on this one, in terms of racism, bias, prejudice, I side w/the blacks..........but, that doesn't solve anything. Thus, I wrote some things down why others might feel it isn't a one-sided argument......and it is not.

We can all sit here and hate each other for things that happened a day ago, a year ago, a decade ago, several decades ago, or even longer ago.

How does that move us forward? We certainly need to acknowledge that it all happened, but the next step is to move forward and improve the situation in order to ensure that it does not reoccur.

I believe that making sweeping generalizations and stereotypes against any one particular group is wrong. I did not comment on the post that talked of Louisiana's voting requirements in the '60s because it can't help us move forward, but believe me, I sent it my black co-workers so they could use it when addressing the Civil Rights movement.

Acknowledge the past........learn from it......fix it.

Please, let's stop allowing events that guys like you, me, Swish, Clem, DC, Florida, etc were not responsible for. Is it really that hard to let go of the hate and judge each person as an individual?

I believe a part of what you're saying is something I touched on earlier in the thread.

Every major move forward in the Civil Rights Movement was accomplished by races working together for that progress. The end to slavery was accomplished by an organized effort to accomplish it. When races don't work together to help make life better for us all, nobody succeeds in accomplishing anything. "We the people" include us all.

Yes, excellent point. I didn't see it earlier as I skipped a lot of posts because the early one disappointed me.

My bad, bro.

More initiatives that should be considered:

1. Decent grocery stores in suppressed neighborhoods: We all know about the studies that speak of the importance of early childhood nutrition, and its long-term effects on growth, development and human potential. Living near Detroit for almost 30 years, I was one of the first to hear the term "Food Desert(s)." A "Food Desert" is a city district that is bereft of decent nutritional resources/options: no place to purchase fresh fruits, vegetables, balanced foodstuffs, etc for miles and miles. The only nearby resources are fast-food establishments and convenience stores that sell highly-processed, nutritionally deficient 'food-like substances.'

SpartanNash (Spartan Stores), the largest food distributor serving military commissaries and exchanges in the United States, have made a commitment to placing a good number of their retail outlets in inner-city locations throughout SE MI and NW Ohio urban areas. They are one of a scant few who have done so, and I cheer them on for their efforts. When a working single mom of three must get off work, and take public transit 4 exchanges AWAY from her home to shop for her kids at the nearest Kroger, something's desperately wrong in her neighborhood. Feeding your kids a decent meal shouldn't be reduced to a choice of "food purchased vs. family time."

Specialized Public Schools: For almost 10 years, I taught in a Charter School that focused on the Arts, in addition to providing a well-rounded basic education. Many- even most of those kids came from home lives that would have crushed me. So many of these kids have continued their educations past HS, I've lost count (It didn't hurt that Marty had a direct line to U of T and BGSU, where many of these kids ended up... they stayed close to home- and remained connected to TSA, which acted as their 'extended family' during the difficult years in college).

I see no reason why this same idea can't be expanded to develop Tech, Trade, and Service-oriented curriculum. Let the families/students choose/find the education path that best suits them. "Freedom of choice," dammit!

Integrate 'Neighborhood Centers' with schools, local library branches, local Arts non-profits: They're the perfect, most fertile grounds to give kids a link to the possibilities that exist. YMCA/YWCA/Boys&Girls Clubs' 'After-school programs' don't have to be simply a gym, where kids run around unsupervised, playing ping-pong, bumper pool and basketball. Make that time count for something. Show them what the world has to offer them. Inspire them to seek out what they want, find who they are... and challenge them to be what they want to be. Our next Yo-Yo Ma, our next Tesla engineer for Elon Musk, our next Neil DeGrasse Tyson might be sitting right underneath our noses... undernourished, under-supported, under-appreciated.

Here are two stories (from my own professional sphere) that exemplify the potential that lies within all of us.

8 year-old Sujari Britt playing a command performance (with Alisa Weilerstein, one of the hottest young classical soloists of the new generation) at the White House:



Words from Ms. Britt's Dad


...and this story, as well:

Black Folks can dance... but- Ballet? -Say it ain't so!

_________________

Human potential knows no bounds... unless it's stunted by pettiness, tribalism, prejudice- and a system that caters to only some, at the expense of so many others.


When the least-regarded of us win, we ALL win.

It's high time we extend opportunity (by any means necessary) to ALL of us... because none of us is smart enough to know where The Next Big Thing is coming from.

How many of you discounted "Rap" as a worthless 'urban fad,' 30 years ago? It's now being used as a vehicle for positive social change..., In Africa, France, Russia, Central/South America, The Caribbean, The Philippines, China, South Korea, India....


Betcha didn't see THAT coming... did ya?

The ENTIRE WORLD is finding its voice- and that voice is beginning to speak America's message. If we are truly what we purport ourselves to be, it's high time we chukked our own caste system... and started investing in the human potential we have readily at our disposal.

If we can do that, "The American Century" needn't be limited to just the years of 1900-2000. It can truly become "The American Epoch" in the history of the world.

I marvel at your wit, intelligence, ability to spin a narrative, and initiative.

You are an exemplary human being!

It is not without reason that I refer to him as Clemoquence!

Wow! Great thread! I hate it took so long to jump in to the ring.

Seeing as I'm coming in so late I'm only going to paraphrase some points I'd like to comment on. If I take any out of context guys please let me know and don't take it personal!


Swish-

I believe it was you who mentioned that white people should feel comfortable about talking about race or that there are no restrictions on them speaking about such?

To that point I disagree. When it comes to talking about race there is a double standard in that white people cannot freely talk about it. You made some pretty amazing statements about forced rape and I THINK toward the beginning of the thread about the lack of black men sticking around was rooted in slave practices as well. I'm not quite sure I'd agree with those statements as I don't have any particular knowledge in those areas, but for argument's sake, I accept them as fact. If I started a thread about race and included the exact same statements, heads would freakin explode!

Further to the point I really liked your list of solutions to improve things, and that goes for blacks and whites. What I really liked about it is that they were inward looking, things that can be done today, and not have to be waited on for someone else to do something.

But even in your list there are some things that if I had said them, I would be accused of being racist. How many times has someone (a white poster) posted something about the pants off the ass thing, only to be called racist or at bare minimum insensitively judgmental?

Until the exact same things can be said regardless of the speakers skin color, one can't claim that everyone can speak freely on the subject. I'll cover this a bit more when I respond to DCDAWG in a minute.

I do agree with you that the Civil War was not about freeing the slaves as much as people give it credit for. I seem to recall in my earlier years of study that Frederick Douglas was very frustrated by Lincoln's refusal to bring the issue to the front. Many of the Confederates saw it as a States Rights issue, not so much the ability to keep slaves because as was mentioned earlier, the majority of people didn't own slaves.

BTW I nearly choked when I read where you wrote that as part of the 'solution' more blacks should become cops! Are you getting your weed from the usual guy??? That's probably the most shocking thing you've posted in this thread! j/k! But in all seriousness, you ARE right, more people, not just black but from all walks of life need to step in to that kind of role.

(ON A SIDE NOTE: I recently saw a documentary about London, but it briefly covered Sir Robert Peele, the man who organized the first police department in the 1800's. He specifically hired the blue collar type for two reasons: 1) being that the majority of people in those times was blue collar type, he figured they would more readily trust the police and 2) on the other end, the police would have a better understanding of what the people needed.)

I'll cover a few cop things when I respond to Clems plans for Tomorrow World!

Is it me, or have you noticed that these threads centered on racial issues have steadily become more productive and respectful over the last several months? I think we've all gone about it enough that we're finding we're actually not as far apart on our viewpoints as we once thought? I dunno. Could just be me.

DCDAWG:

Can you clarify your previous posts about white people being 'trained' t hide their racism? My impression is that you were concluding that most if not all whites are racist, and know it, they just have learned to hide it. I have some thoughts on it but I'd prefer to get a better grasp of your meaning first.

CLEM:

It's apparent you've been thinking about this for a long time! You're too well prepared! But I think there are a couple snags in some of your proposals.

The cop thing: I'll tackle that first cuz its the most I know about. I think a lot of people and departments really would like to get back to the "beat cop" that we used to see on 1950's television. The problem is, in spite of the sentiments to be "harassed" less, the demands on police are skyrocketing. In a single 12 hour shift an officer can conceivably be the hero, the villain, a life saver, a life taker, a source of hope, a source of dread, a parent, a family counselor, a marriage counselor, a substance abuse counselor, a mental health professional, so and so forth. You guys would be amazed to see what kinds of things people call the police for. I'm not talking about scary or dangerous things like bank robbers and suicides. I'm talking, "Um, my 6 yr old doesn't want to get out of bed and go to school. I don't know what to do". "Oh, my boyfriend/girlfriend got a "like" on Facebook from someone I don't know"...

On average, the ratio of patrol officers to the population of most urban areas is in the neighborhood of 1 : 5,000-8,000 residents. The 15 officers I patrol with combined are responsible for nearly 100,000 people in a 33 square mile area. And that's just our section of the city. So I think you can see the challenges in regards to getting back to that 'Officer O'Grady beat cop method'. Ironically, when you add in those factors and throw in a department's intent to provide better service in the form of shorter response times... it makes it very difficult to break away from the "drive by cop" model.

When it comes to education, its a lot more complex than just saying we need better schools, better teachers, more money, etc. There has to be a genuine desire to learn and at minimum a respect for education on the part of the student. How is it that in some 3rd world countries a single teacher with nothing more than a book, chalkboard, and chalk can teach 30 kids the basics of reading, spelling, and math? That's what? Like $50 in supplies for an entire classroom, yet we complain that $10k PER student in this country is not enough? If you took an entire 500 student body from the worst inner city school (includes the dropouts) and swapped them with a like sized wealthy public school... how much of a difference would we see? I don't know, but I do know that those students would still be dealing with the same things: gangs, little to no support from home, etc. There is very little value placed on education these days IMO.

I thought I had a little more, but my brain is crappin out. Either today or tomorrow I'm going to start a thread on the Broken Windows theory. Its relevant to your points about cleaning up sections of cities piece meal, but I think its divergent enough that I don't want to risk hijacking the thread. For those who don't know, Broken Windows was the policing model developed under Giuliani to clean up Manhattan.

Good stuff fellas!

Wow!

Excellent post DevilDawg!!!!

This thread started off terribly and then was pretty amazing. I learned a lot.

It's died because of me.

I actually suggested personal accountability and no one wants to hear that. Do you?

We can develop all the programs known--and unknown--to mankind, but until the majority of us take personal accountability, things won't improve.

Think about that for just a minute.

I don't think it died because of the personal accountability comment at all. I think most of us here understand the concept and how important it is.

As for myself, I was taking a breather before responding to Devil's latest address to me. His post is worthy of real consideration before I bang out just anything.

After so much info exchange, I think sometimes folks need a chance to digest what's been shared, regroup- and then perhaps pick it up again. Lord knows there's plenty to consider with a subject this wide and deep.

.02

Versatile Dog,

I have been reading the posts. I have not commented because there was nothing I cared to say about the recent posts. I feel my point of view was expressed adequately enough already. When I have something more to add, I will add it.

I wasn't referring to you, Clem. I simply think that people like to assign blame and when they are asked to make a change, they become uncomfortable and step away.

I maintain that until the majority of us learn to forgive and accept the other side, we are going to continue to have racial issues.

What are we to forgive if we can't say what we're forgiving because it might sound like blame?

I think discussions involve people stating their ideas and opinions. We may think they've missed the point or we many not agree with them, but that's only a small part of what a discussion accomplishes.

Eventually we get quite a bit of information to consider.

This thread has been great from the information side alone.

I'm a white male, middle class, grew up in a 99% white town(At least when I was growing up), had a stereo-typical mid-america childhood, but in a single parent home.

This thread has giving so much more insight into the perspective of minorities in ways I never saw or understood.

Yes these debates can get heated, and often off-track, and personal attacks still run rampant on this board even when they have nothing to do with the topic, but all in all there is always a good exchange of information, that leads to some deep thought and re-examining of the way I see things.

So to everyone who has contributed, no matter how small you think your contribution was, thank you, it all adds up to a large compendium of real life data, more valuable than anything one could read in a news article or see in a news broadcast.

Vers, have patience with it. I k now you weren't thrilled with how the thread started out, but realize that most of those first several pages was everyone coming to a consensus as to the premise. I know you laid out your topic points, but I think it was clear early on that when the word "racist" is used, it meant a lot of different things to a lot of people. Getting a consensus, or at the very least a clear idea of where the other person is coming form I think was important for the thread to be constructive.

If you compare this thread to other ones about race a year ago, I think you'd see some differences. It's a very emotional issue for everyone regardless of skin color and I think as we've come back to the topic repeatedly the board as a whole is really finding that despite our diverse backgrounds, experiences, and philosophies... we're not really all that far apart.


To your point about personal responsibility: that's the simplest and most obvious answer, isn't it? Which is what we need. IMO when trying to solve these social problems we (people in general) tend to overthink and outsmart ourselves.

But yes, personal responsibility. Stay in school instead of dropping out to sling rock. CHOOSE not to commit crimes, etc etc. It may be difficult to get ahead, but we have almost all the control when it comes to doing or not doing things that put us in a hole..."pull yourself up by the boot straps".

Rockdogg (I think) is usually very critical of the "by the bootstraps" mantra. While I think he has a tendency to rely on entitlements and welfare as solutions (please correct me if I'm wrong or misunderstanding!!), I also think I understand his view. Many people who put that forth, ONLY put that forth. Working hard counts for a significant amount of a person's success, but even the hardest worker can be limited by opportunity.

Personally I think the hole $15/hr for Fast Food workers is ludicrous. But hey, if a company wants to pay it, go for it, whatever. But I'm sure even in that crowd somewhere is a guy or gal who is a damned hard working 'burger flipper'. They are always on time, goes the extra mile, and is highly productive. And they've likely received raises as most of them do, though these are usually built in... you're off your probationary period etc etc.

-But does this person work for a manager or owner who actively looks for people like that to put in to other positions?
-Does their ownership cultivate people like that?
-If opportunity IS provided within that company, does the employee know it?
-Does that employee have enough 'professional development' to properly prepare?
-Does that employee know that people like them are desired? Either in that company or another?
-Does the employee know that their skills and work ethic are applicable to more than just burger flipping?

I just feel like in this day and age we as a society are no longer thinking broadly enough. I graduated highs school in the mid 90s'. Back then college graduates knew how to adapt their college experience and education to a wide range of professions, even if it wasn't seemingly related to their major. There doesn't seem to be any abstract thinking at all any more. Now if I can't get a job in my exact degree, the thinking is I'm now going to live at home and wait until there is one.

Fast food and restaurant experience was valued, not foe being able to cook a damn good medium rare filet mignon, but because of the work ethic a person could develop and their ability to deal with people in a fast paced environment. YEs there were some who will work in a steakhouse the rest of their lives, but the majority of people who worked there viewed it as a stepping stone to something else. Now somehow we're talking about flipping burgers as a career???

Are we just talking about hard work and opportunity? Or are those in the position to provide opportunity doing just that?

You are correct if you made this statements heads would explode, but honestly if I made those comments my head should explode. So lets touch on the forced rape... not sure how anyone can prove that slave practices built this mistrust with black woman. Not sure if there is any data that says that, matter fact there will be no data because its hogwash. I know devil for the sake of the discussion you are going to take them as fact but I know you don't believe it is a fact. It is frustrating that people could walk a way and think that rubbish is true which creates more stero-types.

This mistrust thing is silly think about it, it has nothing to do with race it has everything thing to do with being a man, young and selfish. Black girls are not taught "Black boys are going to disrespect and leave you", girls are taught "boys are bad and don't believe what they say" Why because we are lol. For the most part most guys want to sleep with as many attractive women that they can, we are programmed to do this. My buddy who is white told me a story how he was a bar and 2 girls he slept with were in the same bar giving him dirty looks, he said they were both one night stands and wanted to avoid them, he said his only logic was to "drink more and try and sleep with another girl". I

I don't have data but I have logic, if you take all males around the same age lets say 18-35 and compared how they treated women, and then looked at their income level, education level and their environment I bet that it will see many similarities on how the factors influence how men treat women, and I can confidently say that all races would be about the same.

That's what I learned in school.

Don't like it? Take it up with my professor, not me.

But you're smarter than me. You got it. I stayed away from the boards the last few days, cause my experience sucks compared to the all knowing lurker.

It's like that movie "not another teen movie". There's only one token black guy, and you already claimed the territory. You got it. Cause that's exactly how you act.

Yes, I am educated and very logical by nature so I rely mostly on statistics when trying to debate a point. Numbers can be interpreted differently but they don’t lie. If you make a bold comment you must have a source to back it up or it’s a weak argument that is trash and right now your argument is weak. Now if you can produce a study that supports your argument then I am open to talk about it. You can’t rely on knowledge that someone else has “said” (like a professors) and then present it as facts.

So I ask you again to please produce the documentation that shows how black women mistrust black men due to slavery.

Don't stay away from the boards on my account, you say a lot of things based on your experience that I think are just flat ignorant and wrong, and I will start calling you out. Take it personal or don’t take it personal it doesn’t matter to me, I will call any one out, and I have Real Talk!

lol token, I love it. Not sure how I can be token when I am on the board trying to get people not to believe in stupid stero-types, tokens don’t do that, they are happy in their world. If anything I imagine that I rub people the wrong way because I am probably perceived as "pro-black".

I have friends of all races, religions and even sexual preferences which has molded me into the man that I am. I hang, drink and socialize with everyone and everywhere. So based on my experiences coming from poverty stricken Kinsman to working in corporate America living in the burbs I am not trapped in a box. I see things from all angles. I actually give back to the community by volunteering, working to help build a better future for young blacks who were similar like me, who may need an oppurtunity. What do you plan to do? I remember specifically saying you flat it don’t care about the community and that you would not do anything to help other young people in poverty.

Back to the token thing, I am from Kinsman do you expect me to make posts about "Real talk?" or other ignorant things? lol. Or should I use all my slang to show how “black” I am? To me that line of thinking is ignorant, and would cause people not to take me seriously. How do you expect to make any credible points about not to stero-typing when you say things that help people stero-type?

One last thing…..Correct me if I am wrong. Did you not say that black people need to stop telling other blacks that they are “acting white? “ Yet you call me a token? If you want to be taken seriously, you can’t contradict yourself.

a token means you're the only black person on the board, or act like it.

for instance, in my old platoon, i was the only black person. thats a token.

for somebody having logic and experience, you sure do make emotional and ignorant comments as well. look in the mirror. I actually made an audible chuckle with your post.

and please don't preach to me about experience, and who you know, and where you're from. Sorry but i will beat my chest: you can't hold my jock strap when it comes to that. period.

you grew up in kinsman? wow!! so did I!! but you're part of kinsman was harder than mine, right? cause you're acting like you're better than me.

yes, i don't care. at all. See, unlike you clearly, i was different, which is why i get labeled as a sell out, coon, house nigger, uncle tom, while guys like you continue to make excuses for a community who, lets be honest, are full of crap and need to take some personal responsibility.

i grew up in the hood too. i made it out the hood too. the difference between me and you is i don't defend the losers making minimum wage a sprint talking about "working for the man". you do. it's ok, though. we need guys like you. Somebody needs to take Sharptons mantel when he retires.

if you want to call me out, thats fine. but you get butt hurt when i return the favor, as normal. See, i don't have a problem with getting called out. unfortunately its hard to show that on a message board.

and just to go back: the fact that you think a token black is a stereotype shows that your just as full of it as you claim i am, as you don't even know what it means. you got hurt over a comment you don't even fully understand.

just like the same community you choose to defend. ignorance.


friends of all races.....bro i got friends all over the planet. i've got experiences that will make you curl up in a fetal position and make you WISH you was back in kinsman.

wanna talk about stereotypes, when you're the one who pulled the "hood card" first. F outta here with that nonsense.

lol you are a funny guy. still waiting on those sources.

http://atlantablackstar.com/2013/09/30/ways-slavery-still-affects-black-people/

http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/tserve/freedom/1609-1865/essays/aafamilies.htm

The most significant debate regarding the history of African American families was sparked not by an historian, but by sociologist and policy maker, subsequently Senator from New York, Daniel Patrick Moynihan (1927-2003). In 1965, as an employee of the Office of Policy Planning in the Labor Department during the Johnson Administration, Moynihan released a report called, “The Negro Family: The Case for National Action. Drawing on the work of sociologist E. Franklin Frazer, Moynihan traced problems he said African Americans encountered in 1965 back to slavery. Although he acknowledged “a racist virus in the American bloodstream,” and noted three centuries of “unimaginable mistreatment,” Moynihan blamed what he saw as the disintegration of poor, urban black families squarely on slavery. He said slavery had developed a “fatherless matrifocal (mother-centered) pattern” within black families. Men, he claimed, did not learn roles of providing and protecting, and this shortcoming passed down through generations. Moynihan discussed racism and chronic employment and its effects on African Americans, but it was his description of a matrifocal family and its “tangle of pathology” that drew attention both from those who disagreed with him and those who supported his findings.

http://legacy.fordham.edu/campus_resourc...ery_s_90308.asp

https://prezi.com/r98lauzv45eq/does-slavery-still-affects-african-americans-today/

once again, the example was taught by my professor, and that snippet touched on it a bit.

however, my point still stands, that we see effects of slavery even in modern times.

now go play in traffic.

First article not scholarly, its trash get it out of here.

The snippet, is from the 2nd article..... which you forgot to post another snippet directly after it, which contradicts and challenges your snippet.

"In response to the Moynihan Report, historian Herbert Gutman undertook an extensive study of African American families. His book titled The Black Family in Slavery and Freedom, 1750-1925 was published in 1976. He reasoned that if Moynihan was right, then there should have been a prevalence of woman-headed households during slavery and in the years immediately following emancipation. Instead, Gutman found that at the end of the Civil War, in Virginia, for example, most families of former slaves had two parents, and most older couples had lived together for a long time. He attributed these findings to resiliency among African Americans who created new families after owners sold their original families apart. Moynihan and Frazier, Gutman concluded, had “underestimated the adaptive capacities of the enslaved and those born to them and their children.”

3rd article- now we are warming up it grazes the topic but it doesn't give anything definite, no data, no reasons nothing.....

4th article - spoke nothing to support your argument.

So again your argument is weak, please give me more examples of why black women mistrust black men? I stand by my statement as women distrust men in general because we are dawgs, which will go for every race

Oh so now we wanna discuss anecdotal evidence, or "black" experience?

Here's my experience: yes, men from every race has its dawgs, but the rate which the black community excels at this is beyond astounding.

Why is it that we have the highest rate per capita of out of wedlock births?

Or single parent homes?

I got homeboys who STILL don't know who their dads are.

I provided an argument. You said it was weak. So let's go you're route.

our music, as much as i LOVE hip hop, is utter trash. A lot of the movies that are predominantly black are trash. WR got so many hip hop movies that people enjoy, it's terrible crap.

It's to the point we got people as nerdy as you calling themselves trap lords.

Whites didn't invent the phrase "F B***, get money"
Whites didn't rben ghe phrase "pimps up, hoes down"

Should I keep going?

And you know what? Getting with a bunch of chicks ain't even the problem. Lords knows I ran through entire countries in Europe before I settled down.

But I didn't get women pregnant. And Im taking care of my kids. We got a epidemic going on in the black community.

I could be wrong, but I always thought that a "token" minority was a person of sometimes dubious qualification, who was there merely to fill a quota. I wouldn't think that would apply to you, or to the military, for that matter.

We use it as just the single black dude.

For instance, my wife always called me the token when I was Going out with her and her friends.

I have just always heard it used the was I described. Not a big deal, I guess ..... but a real demonstration of the way one word can have such a hugely different meaning, even to people in fairly close proximity to one another.

No it's not. A "token" is a person of different ethnicity, race, etc who is in a position BECAUSE they are that race or ethnicity.

If you are just as capable as everybody else in your platoon and have earned the right to be there, then you are not a token, you are a member of the platoon. If some mandate says that every platoon has to have at least one black guy and 10 other white guys, who were more qualified, didn't get the position and you did because you are black... THEN you are a token.

I'll give you an example. Have you ever seen those 2 or 3 white guys at the end of Kentucky's bench that play about a combined 10 minutes a year? Well Coach Cal had a clause in his contract that paid him a 6 figure bonus if he met his graduation rate. Those guys were recruited and signed to sit on the bench and graduate... the other 9 guys on the roster would go pro after 1 or 2 years, those white guys would graduate, Coach Cal would get his bonus. Cal could have very easily recruited 2 or 3 more great basketball players but he didn't... those guys are tokens.

Similar with the term nigga.

I guarantee you'll get three different responses, with two different responses on if it's cool for whites to say it or not.

One person will say they don't use it.

One will say they do, but whites can't.

The others will say they use it, and whites can use it, as long as it's with the A and not the ER.

Yes, in casual conversation among a group of one race, with one person from a different race that person is jokingly referred to as "the token" but when I think of the actual definition of the word, I think of something more along the lines of what Ytown and I said, which is a person who is not really qualified to be there, but is there because they meet some kind of quota.

That's fine DC.

I just told YTown how we used it in the military.

I'm tryin not to be confrontational, but once again I'm being attacked from all angles for simply thinking differently, yet again.

Now I see why Vers be blowing up on Yall all the time. Yall act like sharks.

I grew up in the 60s and 70s and we referred to tokens as being someone included in the group to prove the group was tolerant.

Like presenting a token to prove you've been approved.

Sorry Swish I was posting while you were. I was thinking that different generations may have different interpretations of the word.

I think this is the root of the problem. I, and almost every white guy I know from college, was always looking to get some whenever and wherever they could. But we all came from two parent homes, even if the parents were divorced, they were still both very much involved... I took precaution to not get anybody pregnant because I knew if I did, that I would be responsible. I wasn't going to just walk away. I also knew that someday I planned to settle down and stick around with the right woman and work hard to make it last forever....

I'm not sure how many black guys start from that premise, but I would be that the percentage that don't, is higher than white guys. I also think, as Lurker pointed out, socio-economics plays a big part in it as well.