DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs Discussion Continued

Hard to watch the refs work the Clips and not believe it's rigged.

https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/592423970420432896

Chris Haynes (Verified account)
‏@ChrisBHaynes (Cavaliers beat reporter and NBA Insider for NEOMG representing Cleveland Plain Dealer.)
"Kevin Love says his shoulder actually feels better now. Says he hopes he can play Game 1 of second round."

Thank God for that. I would think that if it was something serious, it would hurt more now that he has cooled of, and the adrenalin has worn off.

Smith is toast for at least five games.

I hope not ... but if he is, at least we have a capable guy at the position with Shumpert.

Ytown don't forget James Jones and Mike Miller who are playoff experience vets that can fill in for Smith.

I'll just say this, the long haired hippy play that hurt Love is BS bush league and I have nothing but respect for Smith for trying to knock that guy out. I just wish Blatt would have put perkins or someone else in sooner and told him to take Olynik or the long haired hippy out and I would have told him to make it obvious just lay a haymaker on him when he goes up for a rebound... Boston was playing dirty the whole series and I'm glad someone finally stood up for the team even if it does land him a suspension.

Love in the postgame said the same thing, that play was bush league and he was trying to hurt him, he grabbed his elbow and forearm and pulled down, like Love said that wasn't even a basketball play...

Respecting a person for punching a guy in the face is really, really dumb. Especially because it will hurt the Cavs in the long run. Smith has always been an idiot, this is just more evidence against him.

To think that Jones and/or Miller can replace, or even fill for, Smith is laughable. Who are they going to guard?

Smith's play was dirty, but that was definitely not a punch.

Anyone who thinks that is a punch, has never been in a fight.

He deserves punishment, because there was intent, but that was not a punch.

I'm hoping Smith gets one game and Love is back after a game or two. I know there are reports that he "felt better" and he's trying to play by Game 1, but as someone who's dislocated a shoulder ... he's in for a lot of pain tomorrow. Those ligaments are stretched and partially frayed in places.

https://vine.co/v/eW6dFpA7FAl

Probably a game.

That is complete bush league crap. I know it was in retaliation but, ummm... they went after the wrong guy.

As a Cavs fan I would be relieved if it was only a one game suspension but a player really should get tossed several games (at least) for a play like that.

He may have been trying to knock his hands off him to get the rebound ..... who knows? It looks to me more like a demonstrative "get off me" than a "I'm gonna knock your head off" kind of play.

It has been represented as a punch by almost every media report I have seen though. Kinda stupid if you ask me. I think the fact that he hurt his knee played into the story more than what Smith actually did.

I thought Perkins incident was far worse and far more blatent than this. This is nothing.

That wasn't retaliation for the Olynik cheapshot. It was retaliation for Crowder shoving him in the back three times right before he hit him. It's what happens when the refs swallow the whistle and players end up having to police themselves. Crowder was shoving him, and JR finally slapped him like the female dog he was acting like. I can't even be sure he meant to hit him in the face, as JR wasn't even looking and Crowder was somewhat crouched over.

If JR gets more than a game for that, Olynik should get a month for his unprovoked cheapshot.

The blame falls mainly on the refs..

They swallowed their whistles for 3 games..

What do you think is going to happen in an elimination game.. When the overmatched team has spent all series being allowed to do whatever they want?

A few comments:

--The long-haired guy's play on Love was dirty.

--I hope Love can come back. We will not win it all w/out that third guy. In fact, I am pretty sure that LBJ and Kyrie will get theirs, but we need to Love to get his. He is the key to the championship.

--To me, it was a dirty play.

--I think Blatt inserted Perkins to take Crowder. I think Crowder talked too much. I think he put too many elbows into LBJ's midsection, I think he was too dirty, and I think Perkins came in to take the guy out. I was cool w/that.

--I think Crowder pushed Smith twice from behind and the refs didn't call either foul. I think Smith took a cheap shot and he should be suspended for at least a game.

--I loved when Perkins first stood up to Boston, but after a bit, I began thinking.........let's just get out of here, there is no way these chumps can beat us.

Olynyk and JR both deserve suspensions but let's not sugar coat what JR did.. that was a spinning backfist straight to the guy's face. That is a more brutal strike than most punches and Crowder's legs obviously buckled and he probably shredded his knee. I think if this was Tristan Thompson or another Cav playing physical down low and one of the Celtic's players retaliated like JR did, most here would have a dramatically different view of the play.

JR got sucked into it. The Cavs did such a nice job tuning out the Celtics dirty play. They played thug basketball all 4 games. They knew they had no chance.

So sick of hearing about Stevens and how his teams play so hard. Get the hell out of here. Sweet tactics bro.

JR needs to be punished because it was a dirty play, but the media calling that a punch is laughable. Please. Crowder only got hurt because he wanted to sell the play more. JR didn't hit him in the legs.

I think JR should get suspended for the same number of games Ray Allen got when he elbowed Varejao in the junk all those years ago.

Do you ever watch UFC fights where a fighter takes a strike to the face, he gets essentially knocked out for a second, and kind of buckles to the ground? That is exactly what happened there. Wanted to sell the play more? Come on man! dude took a spinning backfist that connected directly on the cheek from a guy who has a 6'10" wingspan. Look at the vine... it is in slow motion and JR's arm is still flying.

Seriously.. are we looking at the same video?

There's a huge difference between a trained ufc fighter, and a guy who wasn't even looking in the direction he swung his arm. It was cheap, but please. That's not a punch. Come on man.

and no, I don't watch UFC because I have respect for myself. haha

If JR gets more than a game that sucks, because he reallllly didn't get his money's worth on that shot.

If you have ever watched an NBA game up close (like courtside seats), you surely know that most NBA players are bigger, stronger, faster, and more explosive than they appear on TV. This is something that you almost have to experience first-hand to know what I'm talking about.

JR Smith is listed at 6'6" 225lb. He's a trained professional athlete. I'm sure they do their share of strength work and such and as an NBA guard who can play well above the rim, it's a safe assumption that he's generally fast twitchy/explosive. And if you know much about martial arts in general, you would know that a strike of this nature (spinning backfist) actually has very high knockout potential and all the moreso as he has such long arms (torque = lever arm + force).

Quite frankly I have never seen someone flop like Crowder did there. If that was a flop, it was by far the most convincing flop I have ever seen. guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

edit: full video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxyWn2AiORY

yeah Crowder started the play off with a some unnecessarily physical play but watch his reaction as he goes to the ground. He had a knee injury that he couldn't put any weight on, yet he goes down at :04 and doesn't even reach for his leg until 0:12. He was covering his face in the meantime. Like I said, if this was a flop, it was a pretty darn convincing one.

I am not defending what Crowder did earlier or what Boston did throughout the series. However, Smith's move was wrong and he deserves to be punished.

I loved it when Perkins came in and did his thing, but things kept escalating. It got to a point where I just said........stop proving we are tougher...we already did that...and they can't freaking beat us.......let's get the hell out of Bean Town.

agreed.. there was a point with about a minute and a half left in the game, when the Cavs were up by 9, that I was hoping Blatt would pull the starters. Normally it would be perfectly reasonable to have them in there still but with the way the game was going, it just felt right to get them out of there.

It just sucks he couldn't keep his cool for another period and a half.

Regardless of whether Crowder flopped or didn't it was dumb. Stevens had his team playing dirty the whole series because he knew they had no chance otherwise. Tons of fouls where guys weren't even making an attempt at the ball. The refs did not do a very good job. I'm so tired of that whole back in my day take too. Wrapping your arms aruond a guys head/neck or otherwise while he's in a vulnerable position going to the hoop is dirty in any era.

Chicago will will have their moments, but I don't think it will be anything like this series was. They're a better team and actually think they can win.

We're really going to have to lean on Lebron though. Not having Love in this series could be disastrous. Really hoping for good news tomorrow.

Sounds like early indication on Love is two weeks, but we'll know for sure when he's fully evaluated tomorrow.

If it's two weeks, he's likely out the first four games against Chicago.

We need Milwaukee to extend that series to 7 then.

From Sam Amico, Fox Sports

RT @SamAmicoFSO NBA updates playoffs schedule: If Bulls beat Bucks on Mon, Game 1 of East semis at Cavs on Sat. If Bucks win Mon, East semis start May 4.

Blatt is absolutely right about this, and yet he'll probably still get fined.

David Blatt said referees partially responsible for Kevin Love, Jae Crowder injuries and Kendrick Perkins is Jim Loscutoff | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2015/04/david_blatt_said_referees_crea.html#incart_big-photo

BOSTON – Cavaliers coach David Blatt said the leeway referees gave the Boston Celtics to play a more physical style of basketball earlier in the playoffs was responsible for the environment in Game 4 Sunday in which key players on both teams suffered potentially serious injuries.

The Cavs' Kevin Love had his left arm yanked out of its socket by Boston's Kelly Olynyk in the first quarter of Cleveland's series-clinching 101-93 victory. Cleveland's J.R. Smith decked Jae Crowder in the face during the third quarter. Crowder crumpled to the court and suffered a knee injury.

"Of course it does," Blatt told the Northeast Ohio Media Group, when asked if officiating in the earlier games of the series led to what transpired Sunday. Blatt also suggested a third instance Sunday -- when Kendrick Perkins crushed Crowder in the second quarter -- was retaliatory.

"If you don't police it all the way through, sooner or later, it's going to happen," Blatt said.

Love accused Olynyk of injuring him intentionally. LeBron James said the team was "very upset" about the play. Boston coach Brad Stevens denied that Olynyk grabbed Love on purpose, and said the two were "locking each other."

Crowder shoved James in Game 3 after Kyrie Irving was whacked by Jonas Jerebko, and said afterwards playing that way was the "best way" to defend James.

Also in Game 3 on Thursday, The Cs' Evan Turner was called for a Flagrant One when he neck-tackled James, and Irving was hammered a number of times on the way to the hoop. Several didn't draw whistles.

Crowder paid double on Sunday. In the second quarter, long before Smith walloped him, Perkins was put into the game and leveled Crowder on a pick, knocking him down. When Crowder got up to discuss the matter with Perkins, the Cavs' enforcer poked him in the face as things grew heated.

Perkins was assessed a Flagrant One foul for crushing Crowder and both were given technicals for the following fracas. Blatt said Perkins' play was a response to the Cs' physicality – he called it a "Jim Loscutoff play" after the former Celtics hatchet man who played for the Cs teams Blatt rooted for as a child.

It wasn't clear if Blatt put him into the game with the order for Perkins to crush Crowder, or if Perkins' shot was in direct retaliation for Olynyk, though that was precisely how Boston legend Red Auerbach used Loscutoff in the 1950s.

"I went to set a screen, hard pick, it was an offensive foul," Perkins said, denying the play was intentional. "You know, things happen. Guys get tangled up."

As for Smith's fist crashing into Crowder's face on Sunday, he was assessed a Flagrant Two (drawing an automatic ejection) and will likely be suspended. Blatt told the Northeast Ohio Media Group that Smith's swing at Crowder was not in retaliation for the Olynyk-Love incident, but a response to Crowder twice shoving Smith in the back right before Smith flung his fist.

"I haven't seen the play. From what I hear, you know, he reacted to something," Blatt said. "It wasn't like he intended to hurt the guy, just reacted. I don't know how the league sees that. I hope, fairly."

Celtics coach Brad Stevens didn't said he didn't think any of the Cavs' infractions were on purpose.

"I just thought it was a competitive game," Stevens said. "I can't imagine it was, but maybe they would say differently. Again, that's not really in Kelly's personality and, so, I hope that wasn't the case. I didn't think that was part of their response, personally. I just don't. There's physical, there's contact, things get heated. That's sometimes how people respond."

They just don't stop hoping, do they?

I wonder when the "Lebron to LA" rumors start ..... I mean, he only signed a 1 year deal .......

Repeat offenders get heavier punishment.

It seems to me that Smith's foul is being way overblown. That clown Crowder put a forearm into Smith's head immediately before as as Smith clears him he gets hit in the face. If he's not backing up trying to get the rebound that "swing" is nothing.

But no, the guy that wasn't looking is going to get suspended for landing a punch? Come on...the guy who was facing forward and was initiating the contact should be the one penalized. It's like a car accident, the person in the rear is assumed to be at fault because the driver in front can't be responsible for what they can't see...

So as long as somebody does something you don't like, you are allowed to coldcock them?

Seems a little strong given that he never even looked at him. Or is he like Daredevil and has some sort of crazy radar power that can tell him exactly where his opponents face is going to be when he's behind him?

Where did he think he was going to hit him?

CFRS15, you might think it's dumb, I think it's sticking up for your team, your city, and your fans. Same thing they do in baseball and in hockey... How many times are you going to let Crowder elbow you in the back of the head and neck after he's been doing that to Lebron all series? I for one am tired of watching other teams bully Cleveland teams, Hines Ward cheap shots on defenseless WRs, Harrison taking out McCoy, M Cabrera killing the tribe, you can call it dumb, dirty or whatever you want I just wish someone on the Browns would have stood up for the Browns and someone on the tribe would hit Cabrera.

I'm one fan that is glad to see the Cavs have some players that won't be pushed around and bullied. Smith could have handled it differently I agree but at some point enough is enough and everyone has their limits, it sucks that it will cost him a game or two but I have no problem with players sticking up for themselves and their teammates.

I think Blatt's use of Perkins there was as much of a message to Crowder as it was to the Bulls.

I for one am very anxious to watch Perkins set a pick on Joakim Noah....early and often.

am i the only one who hates Noah with an absolute passion?