DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season The NFL Draft 2015 Browns have real interest in moving up for Mariota

I would give a 4th for Griffin.

I think getting Griffin, and getting Bradford are injury wise the same thing..

If you can get back to 2012 Griffin, then bam, you're ready to go..

He has a lot to figure out mentally, mostly on what kind of man he wants to be in the NFL.

Once again I agree...Both are horrifically injury prone, for a position that isn't normally prone to as much injuries as some others...what scares me is if we indeed offered a 1st for Bradford...there's no telling what we'd pay for RG3...specially it seems Haslem loved drafting Manziel even for the buzz, I can see Haslem getting all greedy with the buzz that RG3 would stir up...I'm not a fan of RG3 myself, and he seemed to have regressed in many areas...I'm sure that injury and other injuries played a large part. However considering whom we have at QB, if the Redskins would part with RG3 and shed his salary...I'd definitely part with our 4th rounder for him...And if we nab a DT early (say Shelton or Brown) I'd try recouping that 4th round pick by offering Phil Taylor to a 4-3 DT needy team

Just don't have a real good outlook for a team with McCown,Thad, Manziel as my QBs...then again Manziel may be as good as what RG3 is...which in honesty isn't all that much, however I believe a step up from what we currently own as QBs

i don't know, is there really much buzz with RG3 at this time??? He's damaged goods, his work habit has been questioned, and he can't seem to read a defense..... Washington would be smart to move on from him.

Now, would a change of scenery help, maybe- but it would have to be the right price. I'm fine with a fourth rounder.

RG3 is a few steps below Bradford in my book. At least Bradford looked like he could play when healthy....

And back to Mariota....

I am really torn on this guy. Is he a product of the system, does he translate to the NFL. People say his is bright. No problems with him off the field. Sounds like he loves the game. They say he has the intangibles to make it work.

Another poster said it best, if the browns really believe he can be the guy, and if he becomes a franchise QB, then the 12 and 19 is really a cheap price to pay. I'm sure it would cost more then that.... and that is what makes me pause.

But if we are talking about throwing a first away for Bradford, then I would rather take the gamble and go up and get Mariota.

I had to laugh a couple weeks ago--- some idiot sports writer said the browns shouldn't draft him because of the circus it would create. Heck, I think JM and MM would benefit from the competition with each other. What's the worst that could happen- both guys pan out??? (Technically, the worst thing is both bust, but could that really happen??) It could become a Drew Brees/Rivers situation- then trade one. It's not like the salary cap hinders drafting two first round QB's anymore, its actually affordable.

And I know people will say that with Mariota, we would need to trade Manziel. JM's value is at an all time low. No way do I move him this year.

Is Marcus Mariota, whom Jon Gruden and others believe can be great, worth the Browns 12 and 19 -- and more?

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/04/is_marcus_mariota_whom_jon_gru.html

By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group on April 25, 2015 at 6:49 PM, updated April 26, 2015 at 7:28 AM

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns are open to trading up for Oregon quarterback Marcus Mariota Thursday night in the first round of the draft, but is the Heisman Trophy winner worth surrendering the No. 12 and No. 19 overall picks -- and more -- if that's what it takes?

The Browns' interest in Mariota is very real, several NFL sources have told Northeast Ohio Media Group, but only at the right price. Mariota could go as high as No. 2 overall to the Titans or to a team trading into that pick providing the Bucs draft top-rated quarterback Jameis Winston as expected.

The fact the Browns have drafted quarterbacks in the first round -- No. 22 overall -- in two of the past three seasons in Brandon Weeden and Johnny Manziel won't preclude them drafting Mariota if they think he can take them to the next level.

Of course, much will depend on where Mariota falls and what it would take to get him. If they have to move all the way up to No. 2, it might be cost-prohibitive. Just ask the Redskins, who surrendered three first-round picks and a second-rounder to the Rams for Robert Griffin III, who struggled last year and may or not be their starting quarterback in 2015.

But if the premier dual-threat quarterback slides a little -- which seems unlikely at this point -- he could be worth the asking price.

Whatever the case, plenty of quarterback experts who have worked closely with Mariota or have studied him extensively feel he's got what it takes to succeed in the NFL.

"If any of these teams are picking, I would be surprised if they did not take Marcus Mariota,'' ESPN's Jon Gruden, who featured Mariota on his QB Camp series, said on a conference call last week. "I think he's a rare prospect. I think he has some can't‑miss qualities, if you can bring him along and have just a little bit of patience to give him the correct direction. I think this kid, Mariota, could be one of the really great quarterbacks of the future of the NFL.''

He said he's known a lot about Mariota, who contemplated coming out last year, for awhile.

"He's quiet. He's very quiet,'' said Gruden. "That was an exclamation point that I came away from. He is very much not interested in himself. He could care less about his individual achievement, could care less about where he goes in this draft. He's eager to learn, compete, and prove to people he can play. He is very sharp, passionate about the game.

"Has a photographic memory. He can remember everything you put on a chalkboard over several hours and he can go out and execute it quickly. I'm impressed with his mental quickness, his arm quickness, and his physical body quickness. This kid can really move. He's got a great future. I enjoyed being with him for every second.''

Gruden scoffs at the notion that Mariota, who went 36-5 at Oregon, is merely a product of the uptempo spread he ran for the Ducks.

"Look, I could be Marcus's agent,'' said Gruden. "I think this stereotype of Marcus Mariota as a spread quarterback that runs read options every play is ridiculous. He's very poised. I've seen him go through progressions. They run some common NFL route combinations. He's put a lot of points on the board. He's been asked to do a lot with pass protections.

"He learned the Oregon offense inside and out. And he'll learn your offense. It's just a matter of you teaching him and surrounding him with a support system, good players, good contingency game planning, and an opportunity to be great.''

Gruden is confident that Mariota can master any type of offense he's asked to run.

"If you do choose Marcus Mariota, he's going to bring a unique skill set to you, running, quarterback‑driven, running‑type option plays can be part of it,'' said Gruden. "His scramble ability is another thing. His second-reaction plays are really unscripted. It's exciting. It's up to the staff of the entire organization, if they go with a young quarterback, to make sure they give him the proper training and put him out there when they see fit.

"But I'm confident Mariota will be a fit in any offense. I think he can be an outstanding drop‑back passer if that's all you want him to do.''

Of course, the Browns have unique insight into Mariota from quarterbacks Kevin O'Connell, who worked with him for months leading up to the NFL combine and ran his pro day at Oregon. O'Connell, a former running quarterback himself, hasn't been available to the media since he's been hired, but his former business partner, George Whitfield Jr., the quarterback guru from Massillon, Ohio, believes the Browns' interest is genuine.

"It's a very real situation, and it's always going to be a business and bottom-line situation,'' Whitfield told Northeast Ohio Media Group at the NFL combine. "And here they are with two first-round picks, and there are some talented young guys in this draft again that can play quarterback, and if they make that decision to bring him in, that's big for him to get a chance to go in and compete with Johnny.''

In fact, Whitfield thinks it would be great for Manziel to be pressed by his fellow Heisman winner.

"That's going to be a definite wakeup call for Johnny to get up and go back and work hard to be who you believe you are, so that's a real scenario,'' said Whitfield, who's worked with Manziel for the past three years. "It's going to be interesting to see how that plays out.''

The Browns know so much about Mariota from O'Connell that they didn't feel the need to conduct a private workout with him or bring him in for a visit. In fact, O'Connell shared with Pettine the same thing Gruden observed: that Mariota is off the charts in football acumen and would assimilate a pro scheme quickly.

"(He's told me) the mental part, that he's very advanced,'' Pettine said at the NFL annual meeting last month. "This was a guy that understood coming in that he was playing in (a system) that's not similar to potentially a lot of systems that he would be playing in, in the league.

"So he understood that and addressed it and that's one of the reasons that he worked with Kevin, because Kevin understands more of the offensive structure that he's going to have to play in. He attacked a weakness. Everybody that's had him on the board said he's just blown them away because of how he's essentially turned that weakness into a strength."

Mariota is a projection like all spread quarterbacks, but the Browns feel confident he can make the transition. What's more, their new offensive coordinator John DeFilippo has already coached a running quarterback in Terrelle Pryor when they were with the Raiders, and Pryor was productive under his guidance.

"Sometimes people look at that as a gamble, especially in the first round, to project a guy to be something that he hasn't been,'' said Pettine, who will be more involved with the offense this year. "(But) we probably have a little bit better information about him than some others do.''

Of course, the Browns could have plenty of competition if they decide to move up for Mariota. The Jets at No. 6 could be interested in landing him and even the Bears at No. 7 have been noncommittal on Jay Cutler.

Eagles coach Chip Kelly, who has the No. 20 overall pick, has identified Mariota as the best quarterback in the draft, but has said he won't mortgage his future to draft him. However, rumors and reports persist that the Browns might try again on draft day to trade for Sam Bradford, which could open the door for Kelly to deal for Mariota, whom he coached at Oregon.

At the NFL annual meeting, Kelly dismissed the notion that Mariota is a projection.

"I think everybody gets over-analyzed,'' he said. "There's just so much time (before the draft). He's an outstanding leader. Look at his won-loss record. You judge quarterbacks on what their won-loss record is. You judge quarterbacks on touchdown-to-interception ratio (105-14 in three seasons). You judge him on all those things and he's off the charts. And he's off the charts off the field.''

Cardinals coach and quarterback Bruce Arians, who wasn't big on Johnny Manziel before the draft last year largely because of his size, is keen on both Winston and Mariota this year.

"Very different players,'' he said at the NFL annual meeting. "One's a more classic drop-back player in an offense that's produced some guys. The other is an unbelievable kid and an unbelievable athlete who has a great arm. If they're put in the right systems they'll both be extremely successful as rookies.''

Arians stressed that the key is make let the young quarterback do things they're used to doing well.

"When it's a drastic change, they're not comfortable for a couple years,'' said Arians. "Getting him comfortable, he'll be super successful right away. Same thing with Jameis.''

Super successful? One of the really great quarterbacks of the future?

Sounds like a risk worth taking for the Browns, even if it takes a first round pick or two.


(end)


P.S.

From article: "Has a photographic memory. He can remember everything you put on a chalkboard over several hours and he can go out and execute it quickly..........."

Photographic memories are actually very rare. If he really does have one and Gruden wasn't using it as a figure of speech then I won't feel as conflicted if we do trade everything to get him. I still don't think we should, as we have so many other needs, but whatever. You know? lol.

Is there any QB Gruden has done his show with that he hasn't liked? I don't worry about what Gruden says too much.

However, if the Browns believe that he is a franchise QB, and they can go get him, then they should. They can still plug other holes with their lower picks, but if they feel that he is a franchise guy, then they have to do their best to get him.

If not, then they can pass on him and build the rest of the team. Either approach can work to a degree, but having that franchise QB moves you many steps ahead quickly.

First of all, that was an OUTSTANDING point..

I want to talk about Marcus Mariota for a second. This guy is an outstanding game manager; the thing I like about this guy is that this guy doesn't do anything he can't do. This guy can move around a little, throw off the run, throw the deep ball ... I'm telling ya, this guy can do a little bit of everything..

This guy reminds me a little of a guy I had in Oakland by the name of Rich Gannon. You don't think of this guy as an elite quarterback in the National Football League, but trust me, this guy is an elite quarterback in the National Football League. Maybe the numbers don't reflect it, but this guy gets the job done. Marcus Mariota.. I like this guy.

Colt McCoy.

Hmm, I wonder if that is for Mariota, or for a different player?

Cooper would be my guess. Mariota's going to be drafted second by someone.

I am thinking the Browns and raiders are getting a trade in place in case mariota is there at 4

I was thinking maybe Williams.

I was reading an article, and they said that a talent evaluator he really trusts said that there are 5 elite players in this draft, and then a significant drop off.

Here is the article, and the 5 players: (for what it's worth)

There are only five can't-miss players in the 2015 NFL Draft - CBSSports.com
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jaso...-2015-nfl-draft

This column was going to be about the top 10 players in the 2015 NFL Draft. It really was.

I was going to talk to a few evaluators I really trust and put together a column on which players truly merit to be taken in the first 10 picks of an NFL Draft. True blue chippers. Can't miss kids.

Only it was difficult to get too much of a consensus -- that says something about this talent-starved, topsy-turvy crop of players upon which few execs can seem to agree -- and one of the scouts I have come to respect immensely simply wouldn't budge outside of a top five. To make it more clear -- he is adamant that there is no top 10 in this draft. He doesn't see any natural delineation at that number, if you will. He sees a clear cut top-five players in this draft, and then a significant drop in class from them, and then another drop in tier after the next handful of players, and so on and so on.

And this is coming from a guy who frankly loves this draft. Because he thinks it will separate the men from the boys not so much on the field, but in the 32 NFL front offices. He is deadset on the notion that the second round of this draft might be just as good in many spots as the second round and that it might not take a full three years out to discern which teams did the smartest, best work sorting out these players and which did not.

"I love this draft, I absolutely love it," he said. "This is a scout's draft. If you are the average GM and you didn't go see these kids play a lot this year and you were watching film all year, you're screwed. You have to have watched the tape all season. You have to have really seen these kids, and there is no way you can find the time to watch all 12 games on them in the offseason. You have to have seen these players develop all year long to have the right track on them.

"This is my kind of a draft. Am I saying this group is loaded with Pro Bowlers? No. But there are some really good players who are going to go on the second and third day who, I'm telling you, are going to be better than a lot of kids who go on the first day. You just have to know where to find them."

That lack of true high-end sure-things is born out by the fact that this dude refused to put anyone other than a particular five players in his top tier of 2015 talent (names to come soon enough). I couldn't get him to put a single offensive linemen in the bunch. No luck with corners. He wouldn't entertain the notion of a quarterback rightfully being clumped anywhere close to that (he gave Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota first-round grades but said he would not take Winston himself due to the off-field issues). I knew better than to ever ask about a safety, tight end or inside linebacker -- he gave none of them in this draft a first-round grade at those positions, by the way.

Trust me, I tried. You name a kid that has generated any significant pre-draft buzz, and I ran the name by this guy during a very lengthy conversation, and he would only bite on five kids. And five kids only. Again, this evaluator's track record has been incredibly high with me over the years (with a significant amount of his input I successfully identified 27 of the first 33 players taken a year ago; not obviously in the exact spot but of the 32 players in my mock, 27 were gone by pick 33 and all were gone by pick 48). And he will have some major sway in the top 32 list I putting together for later this week, as a precursor to the dreaded but mandatory mock draft on Thursday.

Anyway, here are the five players who stand out, by far, to this evaluator, in the order in which he expects them to make an impact in the NFL once they get selected. Obviously, injuries and the unforeseen can derail any career, but these are the five prospects he would view as far and away the best available talent in the 2015 draft, in his words:

1. Leonard Williams, DL, USC: He's the best pick in this draft and it isn't even really all that close. In fact, if the two quarterbacks go with the first two picks, and the Jaguars (picking third overall) take (pass rusher Dante) Fowler before him, they're crazy. I don't care what your defensive line looks like, this is the pick. He should go first overall. There is no way I would take one of these quarterbacks over him, but with the position some of these teams are in, I understand why he won't go first. I can't say he's completely can't-miss. He's a little bit different in some ways; he's kind of a hippie. But he can play, God can he play. He is the best player in this draft and I don't see how anyone could really debate that.

2. Dante Fowler, Jr., OLB, Florida: I really like this kid. Randy Gregory to me is the best pass rusher in this draft, but he's got the red flags, too. This is the second-best player in this draft. I think he's a double-digit sack guy, he's on the field for you every down. I don't worry about his weight the way I do with some of these other kids, who put on all this fake water weight but you know they can't play that way. He's not a one-year wonder like (Clemson's Vic) Beasley. This kid has the body. I know Pittsburgh has to be dying over this kid. They can't get him (Pittsburgh isn't picking until 22nd overall), but when I see him play I see Joey Porter. He gets in the right scheme -- I see him in a 3-4) and he is going to produce.

3. Shane Ray, DE, Missouri: Next to Gregory, this is the best pass rusher in the group. Fowler might be a little better against the run, a little more polished, but Ray is going to be a handful. This kid is going to impact games. I see a lot of people seem to be down on him or whatever lately. Maybe it's smokescreens or whatever, but if he drops it's only because of his toe (some teams believe Ray may require a procedure for a turf toe injury). The medical would be the only thing. From a football perspective, he can play. You can talk about him maybe being a liability against the run, or there being questions there, but 12 sacks a year sounds pretty good to me. That's what he is. I could see him in a 4-3 or a 3-4. Either way, he's getting to the quarterback.

4. Kevin White, WR, West Virginia: Funny how it took some teams until later in the season, or even the combine, to really come around on him. He's the best receiver in this draft. The measurables speak for themselves. The speed doesn't just show up with a stop-watch; he plays fast. This is AJ Green to me. I see AJ Green. You have a chance to take AJ Green, you take AJ Green.

5. Amari Cooper, WR, Alabama: Some teams would tell you this might be the cleanest pick in the draft and I can see where they are coming from. This is a helluva football player. He's going to be very good on Sundays. There isn't much separating him and White, I just lean to White and think he will make more big plays, but there isn't much not to like about Cooper, either. He's a true No. 1 receiver.

And that was it. I couldn't get another name on this list. I asked if he wanted to change the order at all -- this was the order he originally gave me -- and he said no. With so much offense in the game these days, players who can negate the quarterback are at an absolute premium, and so he wanted to give the edge to defensive players at the top of the list.

"This is it," he said. "I've got five, I don't have 10. I don't have six. This is the five, and then there is everybody else."

And so you have it. Surely, others will disagree -- and this draft will surely be all over the place -- but time will tell if these players truly evolve into the best 2015 has to offer, first as rookies and then for years to come.

Good lord 12 and 19 for cooper? ??? I know the kid is good but this draft is deep at wr . Doesn't make sense

If Winston goes first, Mariota second, third is a toss up between several good options. You would think Williams, but if Jax thinks Fowler or Cooper/White, then Williams could be there at 4.

But I don't think the Browns are going to trade 2 firsts for a 30% chance at Williams.

I agree it doesn't make sense. I don't Farmer trading up for any position other than QB.

We saw last year how much he valued WRs (or doesn't value WRs).

With the list above, I could see us taking whoever is left from Mariota, Williams, or Fowler.

I don't think that we have to be moving up for a QB, even though that could be the smokescreen.

Interesting article.

For the other posters, it said 12 &19 for 4 and other considerations.

There are 4 players I can see us trading up for:

Obviously Mariota, then there is Williams. THose would be my top 2.
Perhaps they fell in love with Fowler as an outside pass rusher. And until cfrs mentioned it I hadn't thought of Cooper. I guess he would be a consideration but clearly the 4th in my opinion.

The trade wouldn't go down until the Raiders were on the clock so if we actually made the trade it would be 100% chance that we get the player we are targeting.

Good point

DeFilippo might be interested in acquiring some Oakland players..

I'd enjoy having Marcel Reese at FB.

Can we have Seabass too?

Definitely. Can't make that trade until we see who is available. Same for Oakland. Might be Mariota or another player, but it can't go down until last minute.

I posted awhile back that Oakland is the most likely trade (outside of TEN). They dealt #3 for #12 (and a 4th, I think) a few years ago. Same GM.

If Mariota gets past TEN, that means no one is going crazy for him. The cost will drop quite a bit.

#12 and #42 and Miami chose Dion Jordan in 2013

I don't believe Williams is a trade target for us. My understanding is he is more suited to a 4-3...

Williams is the best player in the draft. The only reason he probably won't be taken 1 or 2 is there are only 2 QBs in 1st round consideration. Pete Pisco was asked "where does he play in a 3-4?" Pete answered, "anywhere he wants" (like the 600 lb gorilla.)

From his NFL.com profile page; "Bottom Line Enormously powerful defensive lineman. Has the look and feel of the biggest, strongest kid on the playground but hasn't figured out how to unlock his natural gifts and consistently dominate the rest of the kids on the playground just yet. Williams can play in an odd or even front, and is able to hold the point as a two-gapper or disrupt upfield. With coaching and more experience, Williams should be able to match the athleticism with the power and become a consistent Pro Bowler with a ceiling that goes even higher than that."

Our biggest need is at QB, but if we can't solve that this year, why not move on the best player at our second biggest need, defensive line. Pettine has repeatedly said, get good players, fit the system to the players.

This is one thing that I can agree with.

j/c

I hadn't watched much of Williams because I didn't really expect us to have a shot at him. Watched some cut-ups today and honestly expected him to dominate more with all the hype. Williams has the tools and flashes some good technique, but is inconsistent. Motor seems to run hot and cold, and he doesn't always play with good leverage. Seems slow off the snap, generally the last lineman moving, often noticeably. Instincts seemed so-so, really indecisive on read option plays.

He could turn into a great player, but I don't expect him to take the league by storm in year one. First pick overall, I really don't see it. Though, in this draft, I suppose it's possible.

Love your post. That was informative. Thanks.

Not sure if you're being serious or sarcastic, I'll give you serious. *tips cap*

He looked much better in the Bowl Game vs. Nebraska than he did against Arizona St. Manhandled a 6'5", 305 Sr Guard pretty much all game. Looked much more explosive and decisive. Still slow off the snap. I can better see the intrigue. Need to watch more tape of Williams and see what I can dig up on Mike Moudy (Neb's RG) and his getting rag dolled.

I've read and seen the same things about Williams as you.

Starting to sound like the Titans have decided to go ahead and draft Jake locker, I mean Mariotta lol. tom Condom (wasnt a typo)wont let Bradford come to Cleveland and Mariotta going to the Titans. Draft is already looking up lol

He didn't have much to say about Teddy Bridgewater either.

I'm sure he was being serious, so good call.

He liked Bryce Petty's arm, but was shocked that he never made one line call his entire college career.

I remember him also not being enamored with Weeden.

Yea, Gruden really tries to stress the positive with all of the QBs he works with/interviews. You really have to read between the lines and use the sliding scale. If he likes a guy a lot it comes across as a man-crush, if he seems to just like him a little bit and starts talking about a lot of intangibles, that means he can't find much else to like.

He also wouldn't have put up numbers that won him a Hiesman.

You can't predict how we would of played in a system he's never learned..

Isn't that pretty much what every NFL scout, pundit, and fan is trying to do right now?